Opinion: Mandatory health insurance? Maybe not time to panic just yet.

[Gecko123]

After mulling this over for a few weeks, I have begun to doubt the military government can just wave a magic wand and start requiring foreigners in Thailand to have medical insurance as easily as they might like. For one thing, unlike financial and housemaster reporting requirements, any such health care mandate would have to be coordinated with Thailand's medical insurance industry, no small task. 

 

Retirees are not an attractive demographic for health insurers. The minimum age for a retirement visa may be 50, but the average age of people on retirement visas is probably closer to mid-60's, the age when many in the West stop working. Also, while many younger foreign men marry Thai women, it is my observation that most of the foreign men in Thailand on marriage visas are older, often only moderately younger than those on retirement visas. That's probably because younger foreign men married to Thai women tend to live in their home country because work opportunities for them (and often their working age Thai wife) are greater back home. Hospital administrators and immigration apparatchiks might be drooling at the thought of mandatory insurance for foreigners, but I'm pretty sure the health insurance industry - which is going to have to provide coverage - isn't going to be too thrilled with this proposal. Another sticky issue is whether expats would be allowed to self-insure, which is what many people have chosen to do.

 

But just for the sake of argument, let's just suppose we wake up tomorrow morning to discover that medical insurance is now required. And let's just assume that the government doesn't care how these policies are priced, what coverage exclusions or payout caps they contain, and doesn't even require that insurance companies offer coverage to everyone. Which would mean that every foreigner who was affected by this requirement would have to decide whether they wanted to or were able to conform with it. No doubt there would be an awful lot of people who either: (1) couldn't afford the coverage, (2) didn't want to buy the coverage (perhaps because they were covered back home but not in Thailand), (3) couldn't find a policy that adequately covered their medical condition, or (4) simply could not find any coverage in the marketplace due to their age or medical condition.

 

I'm sure there are many forum members who will callously assert that Thailand should promptly kick anybody who can't comply with a medical insurance requirement out of the country. They'll say that they have no business being here without medical insurance. And maybe the Thai government could care less if a sizeable percentage of expats decided to pull up stakes and leave. Maybe they would be pleased if that happened.

 

But what they better not forget is that this change could be significantly disruptive to Thai society as well. I think it is entirely conceivable that some foreigners will elect to repatriate without their Thai spouse or dependent children or extended Thai families. As heartless as this sounds, the truth is that some foreigners, particularly if their ability to earn income is limited, would be financially unable to shoulder the expense of repatriation for both themselves as well as their Thai dependants. For example, let's say somebody has very little or no savings but receives a social security or pension payment around 65,000 baht per month. Could that person feasibly repatriate and bring their Thai spouse to their home country as well? I highly suspect that many guys would leave their significant other behind, not out of heartlessness, but out of economic necessity. That 65,000 baht income simply isn't sufficient to support him and his spouse back home. So a mandatory medical insurance requirement has a very real potential of having a negative impact on Thailand's social fabric.

 

Another factor the government would be wise to consider is that this policy could severely impact the real estate market particularly in cities like Bangkok, Chiang Mai, Pattaya, Hua Hin, Koh Chang, Koh Samui and Phuket. Not only could there likely be a deluge of condo units suddenly put on the market, but, at the same time, the number of perspective foreign buyers would probably drop as well because the mandatory medical insurance rquirement would make Thailand less desirable as a retirement destination. Requiring mandatory medical insurance could have a very undesired side effect on Thailand's real estate market, not to mention the tourism industry in the above mentioned cities.

 

The powers that be need to carefully think through this proposal as the ripple effects into Thailand's social fabric and economy could be very disruptive. This isn't just a 'farang' problem; plenty of Thais would likely feel the effects of this policy as well.

 

 

 

[observer90210]

Ok so in other words, if I understand the picture, it's the hospitals overcharging foreigners upto 300% with dual-pricing and cheating, then come the foreigners who leave and do  not want to pay the cheating hospital scam and then comes the mandatory insurance that is not really going to be mandatory....Right ?!...Game of Thrones could not have done better.

[Odysseus123]

Jeez...

 

Gotta quick line to the powers that be?

 

You understand that the very same powers that be took away locally contributed "farang" medical and funeral insurance in late 2014?

 

I understand that 2014 is a very long time ago...

[madmen]

Im 56 a condo owner and pay $1200 a year for insurance . Most will let you pay monthly so what makes you think it will crash the RE sector?

The people MOST likley to have insurance are condo owners who arrived with between 5 to 10 million baht in cash. The people less likley to have it are the pensioners in chiang Mai so I think you got that back the front

[baansgr]

Insurance is impossible almost to obtain for over 69 years. Axa at present do a basic policy for 55-60 for only 15k. Having mandatory insurance would be the death knell for many.lets hope if anything was ever introduced they would allow those unable to obtain insurance another avenue of maybe a security bond of x amount. 

As for affecting the housing market, retirees dont really own that much real estate in Thailand compared to overseas investors so it would have a minimal affect if any at all.

[Gecko123]

5 minutes ago, madmen said:

Im 56 a condo owner and pay $1200 a year for insurance . Most will let you pay monthly so what makes you think it will crash the RE sector?

What if you're 78 and need care for diabetes, heart disease, or emphezema? Premiums for adequate coverage for those conditions are likely going to be higher. $1200/year, that's 10% of an average annual social security payment. Significant, especially if a person is already paying Medicare premiums on a policy back home. Whatever the premium, if you don't want to buy coverage or don't see it as worthwhile, it's going to affect people's decisions about the desirability of moving here.

[Odysseus123]

12 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

What if you're 78 and need care for diabetes, heart disease, or emphezema? Premiums for adequate coverage for those conditions are likely going to be higher. $1200/year, that's 10% of an average annual social security payment. Significant, especially if a person is already paying Medicare premiums on a policy back home. Whatever the premium, if you don't want to buy coverage or don't see it as worthwhile, it's going to affect people's decisions about the desirability of moving here.

They are far higher than $!200 a year.

 

Plus your conditions are excluded anyway...

 

On the other hand,if you trip over a jingjok,stub your toe,fall down three flights of stairs,shoot up an Me 109 on your way down in your Spitfire (whist wearing a helmet) you may be covered for the paracetamol..

[BestB]

16 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

They are far higher than $!200 a year.

 

Plus your conditions are excluded anyway...

 

On the other hand,if you trip over a jingjok,stub your toe,fall down three flights of stairs,shoot up an Me 109 on your way down in your Spitfire (whist wearing a helmet) you may be covered for the paracetamol..

$1200 for a 56 year old Is the cheapest and crappiest policy, most likely less than 1 million baht cover with not much covered . 

 

Anything decent for a 56 year old would be almost double that. 

 

My cover for early 40 is 1500 euro, almost 60000 baht and it does not include outpatient 

[Odysseus123]

1 minute ago, BestB said:

$1200 for a 56 year old Is the cheapest and crappiest policy, most likely less than 1 million baht cover with not much covered . 

 

Anything decent for a 56 year old would be almost double that. 

 

My cover for early 40 is 1500 euro, almost 60000 baht and it does not include outpatient 

Sure..I understand.

 

I was priced out of the market and figured out that a band aid cost 67,000 baht-at which stage I kinda lost interest.

[marcusarelus]

I pay 40,000 baht and I'm almost 80.  My policy only covers hospital stays and not the whole thing.  AIA.

[NanLaew]

2 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

But what they better not forget is that this change could be significantly disruptive to Thai society as well.

No it wouldn't. The farang coffin-dodger demographic putting the wife's nieces through Rajabhat is minuscule.

 

3 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

Another factor the government would be wise to consider is that this policy could severely impact the real estate market particularly in cities like Bangkok, Chiang Mai, Pattaya, Hua Hin, Koh Chang, Koh Samui and Phuket. Not only could there likely be a deluge of condo units suddenly put on the market, but, at the same time, the number of perspective foreign buyers would probably drop as well because the mandatory medical insurance rquirement would make Thailand less desirable as a retirement destination.

There's already an over abundance of empty floorspace in the places you mention. Most of the aforementioned "farang coffin-dodger demographic putting the wife's nieces through Rajabhat" don't live in condos anyway. They have either build a pile in a company or partners name or they rent.

 

The Chinese buy-to-rent 'investors' are taking up the slack and have been for a few years already.

[wgdanson]

6 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I pay 40,000 baht and I'm almost 80.  My policy only covers hospital stays and not the whole thing.  AIA.

OK Marcus, with whom, and when did you take out the policy?

[NanLaew]

Just now, Gecko123 said:

What if you're 78 and need care for diabetes, heart disease, or emphezema? Premiums for adequate coverage for those conditions are likely going to be higher. $1200/year, that's 10% of an average annual social security payment. Significant, especially if a person is already paying Medicare premiums on a policy back home. Whatever the premium, if you don't want to buy coverage or don't see it as worthwhile, it's going to affect people's decisions about the desirability of moving here.

Only if these younger people pondering a relocation to Thailand have any real concern about what their personal health will be when they're 78 with diabetes, heart disease, or emphezema. Personally, my radar has always had a 12 nautical mile limit.

 

Is this thread about mandatory insurance forcing old guys to leave or preventing young guys coming?

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, wgdanson said:

OK Marcus, with whom, and when did you take out the policy?

AIA 6 years ago

[sfokevin]

How about they do something similar the the national park entry fee price differential... Take the standard 40 baht that a Thai pays for medical and then apply the 10x price gouging... We pay 400 baht... 

[Pattaya46]

1 hour ago, Gecko123 said:

Mandatory health insurance? Maybe not time to panic just yet.

Not time to panic? So why starting yet another topic about that

when Thai Immigration never talked of mandatory insurance for retirees ? 

[wgdanson]

11 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

AIA 6 years ago

PLEASE tell me, and others how you did that, taking out a NEW health Policy at 74.

[Orton Rd]

5 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

PLEASE tell me, and others how you did that, taking out a NEW health Policy at 74.

Many will take you one including pacific cross, at a price of course

[Puchaiyank]

No offense, great topic...but I cringe everytime a farang stirs the mandatory insurance pot...????

[wgdanson]

4 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

Many will take you one including pacific cross, at a price of course

Thanks, I checked them out. I'd rather go to local hospital than pay what they quoted.

Or Nembutal of course

[Orton Rd]

1 minute ago, wgdanson said:

Thanks, I checked them out. I'd rather go to local hospital than pay Bht 120,000.

If you get cancer it will be more like one million.

[wgdanson]

Just now, Orton Rd said:

If you get cancer it will be more like one million.

And the rest!

 

[DaRoadrunner]

Mandatory health insurance wouldn't work as we are all different. For example: A Brit gets Cancer, he buys a plane ticket for 25,000 B and gets it done on the NHS.

 

Our problem is that the Thais might introduce it without thinking of the repercussions.

[marcusarelus]

20 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

PLEASE tell me, and others how you did that, taking out a NEW health Policy at 74.

Call AIA.  I'm not an agent. 

[wgdanson]

1 minute ago, marcusarelus said:

Call AIA.  I'm not an agent. 

Thanks, will do.

[Kwasaki]

Here they all go again. 

[Orton Rd]

I nearly got insurance last year had to have a medical first. Medical showed up quite a few problems so did not bother thinking it may lead to pre existing conditions clause and no pay out if ill. Went home had all the test re done- no problems showed up at all!

[marcusarelus]

34 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Thanks, will do.

It took me a few agents before I found one who would write the policy.  My wife's agent didn't want the extra work.  There is an extra form for an American - banking stuff. 

 

The AIA card says AIA Privilege and the rest is in Thai.

[Lacessit]

What is needed is a reasonably inexpensive policy which covers sudden medical emergencies such as heart attack, stroke or vehicle accidents. Anything else, I can fly to Australia for free treatment.  I have several pre-existing conditions which are monitored and treated there. Confine the policy to admission to public hospitals.

Of course, I am asking for imagination on the part of medical insurers.

[BestB]

7 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

It took me a few agents before I found one who would write the policy.  My wife's agent didn't want the extra work.  There is an extra form for an American - banking stuff. 

 

The AIA card says AIA Privilege and the rest is in Thai.

What you have is accident cover not health insurance 

 

AIA health policy for your age would at least 250 000 if not more if offered 

 

AIA policy for 39 year old was 48000-56000 and cut off age from memory 70 ie policy cancels once one turns 70