Driving the car in violation of the yellow light signal

[chang1]

What does the yellow/orange/amber light mean in Thailand? I have just been fined 500 Baht for going through lights when on Amber. I was well past the junction before they turned red as seen in the bottom evidence photo and the violation was as in the heading. These lights had a timer display so you know when they will change. I have always thought amber means get ready to stop or keep going if you can clear the junction before the red light. If it means stop (when there is a time count down display) why not just go straight to red?

Does the Thai highway code have two meanings for amber? One with a count down timer and another for ordinary lights.

[richard_smith237]

The Thai Land Traffic Act very closely resembles the British Highway Code. 

 

In the British Highway Code the Amber light is an Instruction to stop before the line, if safe to do so. 

Thus, if its wet and there's a HGV behind you - don't slam on the brakes, it's not safe to stop. 

But, if you are not surrounded by traffic and the light turns amber with enough time to stop, you should stop. 

 

I don't think its illegal to go through an Amber light in the UK. 

However, the translation of the Thai Land Traffic act is not as clear... i.e. if you are doing 50kmh 5meters before the junction and the light turns to amber, it's impossible to stop, thus the fine could be harsh. 

 

Depending on your speed in the photo you posted - it looks like you may have had time to stop on Amber.

 

 

Section 22 o the Land Traffic Act.

Meaning of traffic light:

Green: the driver may drive the vehicle through

Yellow: the driver shall prepare to stop the vehicle behind the stop line. If the driver has passed the stop line when the traffic light turns yellow, he may go through.

Red: the driver shall stop the vehicle behind the stop line.

 

 

[richard_smith237]

In your defence - there is no evidence you went through the junction on a Red traffic light.

 

You are before the Junction when the light is Amber.

You are through the junction when the light is Red.

There is no photo showing you before the junction or in the junction when the light is Red.

 

It also depends on the timing of the Amber light vs speed vs stopping distance.

i.e. if the Speed Limit is 50kmh on that stretch of road

The Stopping Distance is 35meters at 50kmh

 

It looks like your truck is 20-25m before the junction (in the photo with the Amber light).

 

If the Camera was timed to take the photo just as the light turned Amber, you did not have sufficient time to stop.

However, if the camera is programmed to take photo's 2 seconds after the Amber light has been illuminated - Then you had time to stop (reaction time is said to be 1.5 sections used by accident reconstruction specialists) 

 

Thus: a lot depends on the 'timing' of the first (top) photograph. 

 

 

 

 

[chang1]

In the UK I think you are safe as long as you cross the stop line before the lights change to red.

As there was a count down timer I could easily have stopped but as I would clear the junction before red I didn't.

Looks like yellow and red mean the same thing.

[chang1]

It's a few days ago so hard to remember but I would say the first photo was as it changed. 

Hope other people learn from my mistake and stop while the lights are still on green and not risk going through on yellow, if there is a count down timer. I guess you have to rely on ESP. at normal lights.

[richard_smith237]

9 minutes ago, chang1 said:

It's a few days ago so hard to remember but I would say the first photo was as it changed. 

Hope other people learn from my mistake and stop while the lights are still on green and not risk going through on yellow, if there is a count down timer. I guess you have to rely on ESP. at normal lights.

 

Indeed... the only rule which could make sense is that you have to stop before the line before the light turns Red. The Amber is a warning that the light will turn red, thus stop if safe to do so. 

 

But, we all know how these rules get misunderstood over time as they are passed down from officer to officer, colleague to colleague... Or in this case, poorly translated from a British Highway Code into Thai, then back in to British for the British Translation of the Thai Land Traffic Act !!!... 

 

Personally, I think you have grounds to object to this if you can be bothered - there is no evidence you went through the junction on a red light. 

 

If you have the time, the inclination and the interest it could be an interesting discussion with someone at the DLT.

 

Alternatively, if you can't be bothered with any of it, don't bother paying the fine. My Wife and I have a couple from last year (3 I think) - a couple of White Line infractions (crossing a fixed white line) and one Expressway speeding fine (each 500b). 

 

We haven't paid any of them and renewed our tax a couple of months ago, so I don't think the Tax-DLT-Police Fines systems are linked yet. 

 

(someone is bound to comment about not paying fines - they are of course correct - I just don't care to pay it and if payment is not being enforced then I'll go along with the farce !)

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2019 by richard_smith237

[chang1]

Thanks for your time on this. For the sake of 500 Baht it is not worth the risk not paying. Don't want any problems taxing as we will be in Blighty and leave father in-law to tax it. 

This is a fine from traffic light cameras so I don't know if anyone scrutinized the evidence or not.

The fine was sent to my wife who owns the truck but doesn't drive it as she doesn't have a license. I hope, if she just pays it, they don't come back with any license related fines or demerit points.

[stevenl]

8 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

The Thai Land Traffic Act very closely resembles the British Highway Code. 

 

In the British Highway Code the Amber light is an Instruction to stop before the line, if safe to do so. 

Thus, if its wet and there's a HGV behind you - don't slam on the brakes, it's not safe to stop. 

But, if you are not surrounded by traffic and the light turns amber with enough time to stop, you should stop. 

 

I don't think its illegal to go through an Amber light in the UK. 

However, the translation of the Thai Land Traffic act is not as clear... i.e. if you are doing 50kmh 5meters before the junction and the light turns to amber, it's impossible to stop, thus the fine could be harsh. 

 

Depending on your speed in the photo you posted - it looks like you may have had time to stop on Amber.

 

 

Section 22 o the Land Traffic Act.

Meaning of traffic light:

Green: the driver may drive the vehicle through

Yellow: the driver shall prepare to stop the vehicle behind the stop line. If the driver has passed the stop line when the traffic light turns yellow, he may go through.

Red: the driver shall stop the vehicle behind the stop line.

 

 

"I don't think its illegal to go through an Amber light in the UK."

It is, just as in Thailand. If not passed the stop line yet, one has to stop at amber.

 

" Personally, I think you have grounds to object to this if you can be bothered - there is no evidence you went through the junction on a red light.  "

Which is not the reason he was fined. He was fined for driving through amber when he could have and therefor should have stopped.

Edited April 24, 2019 by stevenl

[mahjongguy]

" In the UK I think you are safe as long as you cross the stop line before the lights change to red. "

 

Dunno how it works in other countries but in the U.S. your vehicle must clear the far side stop line before the red signal. 

 

[gmac]

Where did this happen, it's good to see the law being enforced for a change even if seeming a little harsh in this instance?  To be fined for going through an amber light when so many Thais think it's ok to drive through a red 4-5 seconds after it has changed is almost a breath of fresh air!

[Kwasaki]

13 hours ago, chang1 said:

I have always thought amber means get ready to stop or keep going if you can clear the junction before the red light.

I have always thought amber means whack the throttle open. ????

[jaiyen]

In Thailand traffic lights have no meaning. 

[Just Weird]

15 hours ago, chang1 said:

I have always thought amber means get ready to stop or keep going if you can clear the junction before the red light.

"...or keep going if you can clear the junction before the red light".

What?  Which country, anywhere, states that?

 

"I have always thought amber means get ready to stop..."

You got that part right.

[Simon1287]

It means put your foot down and get across quick.

 

The red light means exactly the same but only as long as it hasn't been showing for more than 5 seconds.

 

There is an allowance of a further 2 seconds I believe if you are in a real hurry or know a police officer. 

 

(Just to be clear, that was an attempt at humour :)

 

Simon 

 

[richard_smith237]

7 hours ago, stevenl said:

"I don't think its illegal to go through an Amber light in the UK."

It is, just as in Thailand. If not passed the stop line yet, one has to stop at amber.

 

" Personally, I think you have grounds to object to this if you can be bothered - there is no evidence you went through the junction on a red light.  "

Which is not the reason he was fined. He was fined for driving through amber when he could have and therefor should have stopped.

 

Stevenl - If you are driving towards a Junction at 50kmh (~30mph) as you are approaching the junction (10m away) the light turns Amber - there is no way you can stop (stopping distance is quoted as being 23m in the highway code).... 

 

You will have entered the junction on Amber - it would have been impossible not to, you can't stop in the middle of the junction. 

 

(UK highway code) AMBER means ‘Stop’ at the stop line. You may go on only if the AMBER appears after you have crossed the stop line or are so close to it that to pull up might cause an accident.

 

Thus: It is not illegal to enter or pass the junction on Amber but you should attempt to stop. 

 

 

 

 

[VocalNeal]

In The UK there used to be a line before the light. If you were over the line when it changed to amber OK

 

DON'T BE AN AMBER GAMBLER.

 

[Ulic]

In Canada, yellow means stop, unless it is unsafe to do so. But you don't get a ticket unless to cross on a red light with traffic cameras. Camera pictures are set up showing your wheels before the white stop line and the light being red. In Thailand, (just a personal observation), Thais seem to consider the red light to be green for 3-5 seconds after it has turned red, and even up to 10 seconds if you are following bumper to bumper the car ahead of you. Just be courteous and flash your lights so those who have the green light understand you are exercising your "Mercedes, I am important" right of way. 

[peterb17]

I’m intrigued- why is everyone comparing what goes on in the Wild West ( Thailand ) concerning traffic regulations in those in the  UK ( the epitome of civilization on the roads)  

[kwak250]

I always thought as long as you get over the line before it changes to red your ok.

Mind you when i think i just got through on amber i look in my mirror and usually see at least 2 or 3 behind me .

[malibukid]

step on it

[Franko666]

16 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

The Thai Land Traffic Act very closely resembles the British Highway Code. 

 

In the British Highway Code the Amber light is an Instruction to stop before the line, if safe to do so. 

Thus, if its wet and there's a HGV behind you - don't slam on the brakes, it's not safe to stop. 

But, if you are not surrounded by traffic and the light turns amber with enough time to stop, you should stop. 

 

I don't think its illegal to go through an Amber light in the UK. 

However, the translation of the Thai Land Traffic act is not as clear... i.e. if you are doing 50kmh 5meters before the junction and the light turns to amber, it's impossible to stop, thus the fine could be harsh. 

 

Depending on your speed in the photo you posted - it looks like you may have had time to stop on Amber.

 

 

Section 22 o the Land Traffic Act.

Meaning of traffic light:

Green: the driver may drive the vehicle through

Yellow: the driver shall prepare to stop the vehicle behind the stop line. If the driver has passed the stop line when the traffic light turns yellow, he may go through.

Red: the driver shall stop the vehicle behind the stop line.

 

 

Amber means stop if it’s safe to do so in Aussie, so go through at your own risk.  In Thailand any traffic light is meaningless...... unless you get caught of course.

[from the home of CC]

46 minutes ago, peterb17 said:

I’m intrigued- why is everyone comparing what goes on in the Wild West ( Thailand ) concerning traffic regulations in those in the  UK ( the epitome of civilization on the roads)  

lol - ever you tube road rage in the U.K.?

[richard_smith237]

51 minutes ago, peterb17 said:

I’m intrigued- why is everyone comparing what goes on in the Wild West ( Thailand ) concerning traffic regulations in those in the  UK ( the epitome of civilization on the roads)  

 

 

The majority of comments are not comparing what happens, but comparing the laws.

 

It is widely assumed that the Thai LTA is based on the UK's highway code, the highway codes of many other nations compare very closely, especially when it comes to traffic lights.

 

Thus when the question arrises of What exactly is the law for Amber lights in Thailand, the answer is in the Thai Land Traffic Act, which, unfortunately, is more than likely to be poorly translated from English into Thai, then we are reading a translation from Thai in to English - thus there is likely to be some error or simplification.

In this case it would appear that there is an error in the Thai LTA, because, if it is illegal go to pass the stop line on Amber, vehicles would in fact be forced to stop on Green and predict the amber light, which would be quite a daft law.

The function of the Amber light covers the 'stopping grey area' where you should stop if you can, but if unsafe to do so then continue through the junction - It would appear that the laws in other countries (as quoted by contributors to this thread) conform with the British Highway code on this.

 

 

[Moonlover]

4 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

I have always thought amber means whack the throttle open. ????

I'm very convinced that that is what Thais think!

 

Without any mitigating evidence, in the situation shown in the photos, I would have stopped.

 

Because I would be very mindful of that other Thai trait of 'jumping the gun' when waiting for a green.

 

I once pick up a fine for crossing on red. I was convinced that I had crossed on amber, but when I checked the dashcam later, he was right and I was wrong. As the old saying goes it is sometimes: 'Better to be wrong than dead - Right?'

Edited April 25, 2019 by Moonlover

[dotpoom]

Where I come from (Ireland) it is an offence to drive through an Amber light. I never assumed it would be any different anywhere else?

[tandor]

17 hours ago, chang1 said:

Thanks for your time on this. For the sake of 500 Baht it is not worth the risk not paying. Don't want any problems taxing as we will be in Blighty and leave father in-law to tax it. 

This is a fine from traffic light cameras so I don't know if anyone scrutinized the evidence or not.

The fine was sent to my wife who owns the truck but doesn't drive it as she doesn't have a license. I hope, if she just pays it, they don't come back with any license related fines or demerit points.

..defend it.

[thailand49]

Here I'm still alive after 15 years of driving car and motorbike because I do one thing slow down and take it with caution. ????

[mickyr55]

3 hours ago, Just Weird said:

"...or keep going if you can clear the junction before the red light".

What?  Which country, anywhere, states that?

 

"I have always thought amber means get ready to stop..."

You got that part right.

Amber in the UK means STOP only green is go 

[richard_smith237]

10 minutes ago, mickyr55 said:

3 hours ago, Just Weird said:

"...or keep going if you can clear the junction before the red light".

What?  Which country, anywhere, states that?

 

"I have always thought amber means get ready to stop..."

You got that part right.

Amber in the UK means STOP only green is go 

There's more to it than that, otherwise we'd only need 'Green and Red' traffic lights. 

[Kerryd]

Amber is a warning that the light is about to change and you should be prepared to stop. It doesn't mean hammer on the gas and try to make it through intersection before the change.

The lights are timed so that anyone, driving at the normal (posted) speed limit, has sufficient time/space to come to a complete, safe stop before the light changes from amber to red. Even trucks and buses.
If it changes to amber when you are too close to the intersection to come to a safe stop, there would be sufficient time to make it through safely before it changes.
 

If you are so close to the intersection that the light changed to red within a second or two of you going through the intersection then I'd say you made zero attempt to try and stop when it changed to amber and chose instead to blast through.

The timer isn't a signal to try and beat the lights either. You can tell how "stale" a light is by the timer (if there is one) and use that to judge your stopping distance. It doesn't mean "put the pedal to the metal and try to beat the timer". 

 

This is the kind of thing that happens when people ignore the amber light and try to blast through an intersection:
 

https://www.facebook.com/Agentfedorov/videos/1367367686659761/

 

https://youtu.be/Q5ry-QM3HLw

 

 

Edited April 25, 2019 by Kerryd