Anger over Brexit sparks new grassroots drive for Scottish independence

[Small Joke]

On 4/25/2019 at 6:51 PM, Jip99 said:

 

They have already expressed a recent  desire to remain within the U.K. and I am not sure the fad for multiple referenda within a short period of time is a good thing.

 

 

Firstly, thanks for your support for Scotland's independence. 

 

But this is an unprecedented situation, and referenda are not 'fads'. 

David Davis himself has agreed that a democracy that cannot change it's mind is not a democracy. 

 

It's nonsensical to say remainers want as many referenda as they can until they get the result they want. 

 

It's become clear that Brexit was sold as a polished turd.

 

Apart from that in itself, it could (and likely already has done) incalculable damage to the economy and other vital pillars like health, defence, etc. And nobody really knows how bad it will get if it goes badly. 

 

And it is we, the little people, who will get kicked in the nuts hardest if it is a disaster.

 

It looks like a second referendum may be the only way to move forward. If it is still for Brexit, then so be it. 

 

But to just tumble into disaster without any last minute rethink is mind bogglingly daft.

 

And a disaster may be so all-engulfing, it leaves Scotland no choice, but to cut away the dangling mountaineer of Brexit Britain to save itself from the abyss.

Edited May 27, 2019 by Small Joke

[Small Joke]

On 4/25/2019 at 7:21 PM, vogie said:

The poll I had been looking at RR showed a decline in support for independence since 2014.

Make of this as you will.

 

Polls From Hillary to Scotty (Morrison) including Brexit itself have been underwhelming when the reality of what actually happened at the real Polling booth unfolded.

It's a bad argument, based on their unfailing record at failing to be accurate these past tumultuous years. 

Edited May 27, 2019 by Small Joke

[aright]

Scotland currently has a £13billion deficit. Can you book me a place at the table when Sturgeon goes to the EU with her begging bowl for a loan, with no Central Bank to guarantee repayment. If they stay with sterling I can guarantee the BOE won't be going guarantor. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[welovesundaysatspace]

40 minutes ago, sanemax said:

The UK needed the permission of the UK Government though , just like Scotland does

It just had to ask itself you mean? Guess the Scots would love to be able to ask themselves for permission. 

[sanemax]

Just now, welovesundaysatspace said:

It just had to ask itself you mean? Guess the Scots would love to be able to ask themselves for permission. 

Scotland , just like England is part of the U.K. 

If you were from the UK , you would know that 

If England wanted English Independence , we would also have to ask the UK Government 

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, aright said:

Yes I have never understood the logic that Scotland wants to be independent of the UK then to join the EU.

The EU is obviously for independent nations who want to cede their independence to a bigger, undemocratic entity.

There has to be a logic deficit in there somewhere. 

Like Singapore and Vietnam are independent but also in ASEAN. A club that you join, and you give up some things in return for benefits. 

 

The big big lie was that everything that the UK do is determined by the EU ... yet laws, tax, currency, interest rates, budgets, military ... are determined by the UK? And the second big lie was that you have to leave the EU to trade with other countries ... even though countries like Italy and Germany do enormous business in places like China? And Scottish whisky is sold in every country in the world, even Saudi Arabia (albeit black market), despite being an EU member.

Edited May 27, 2019 by AlexRich

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, AlexRich said:

 

 And the second big lie was that you have to leave the EU to trade with other countries ... even though countries like Italy and Germany do enormous business in places like China? 

Who was it that told that lie ?

Was it someone from here again ?

[AlexRich]

28 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Scotland , just like England is part of the U.K. 

If you were from the UK , you would know that 

If England wanted English Independence , we would also have to ask the UK Government 

Please do Max ... I’m sick of the hardly disguised bigotry ... but London, Cambridge, Oxford and Manchester can be part of the New Caledonia. 

[Jip99]

3 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Like Singapore and Vietnam are independent but also in ASEAN. A club that you join, and you give up some things in return for benefits. 

 

The big big lie was that everything that the UK do is determined by the EU ... yet laws, tax, currency, interest rates, budgets, military ... are determined by the UK? And the second big lie was that you have to leave the EU to trade with other countries ... even though countries like Italy and Germany do enormous business in places like China? And Scottish whisky is sold in every country in the world, even Saudi Arabia (albeit black market), despite being an EU member.

 

 

I think you have missed the point and simply stated what we already know.

 

The point, as I see it, is that Sturgeon whines about strings being pulled by Westminster only to want them being pulled by the EU.

 

Different prison IMO.

 

Not to say I am against Scotland leaving the UK if that is what the majority of the population want.

[AlexRich]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

Who was it that told that lie ?

Was it someone from here again ?

That was the implied reason for “setting our own trade deals” ... sounds good but doesn’t stand up to closer scrutiny. Sadly, our deals with Canada and Japan will not be as good as the EU’s deal, and our US trade deal under Donald Trump will be one in which he can portray us as “losers”.

 

[sanemax]

Just now, AlexRich said:

Please do Max ... I’m sick of the hardly disguised bigotry ... but London, Cambridge, Oxford and Manchester can be part of the New Caledonia. 

Yes, I do recall reading that more English people wanted Scottish independence than Scottish people did .

Allow English people to vote next time, and you will definitely get a Yes result 

[AlexRich]

Just now, Jip99 said:

 

 

I think you have missed the point and simply stated what we already know.

 

The point, as I see it, is that Sturgeon whines about strings being pulled by Westminster only to want them being pulled by the EU.

 

Different prison IMO.

 

Not to say I am against Scotland leaving the UK if that is what the majority of the population want.

Sturgeon’s argument is that it is better to be in large alliances and groupings of countries with common interests. England wants to turn its back on that.

[AlexRich]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

Yes, I do recall reading that more English people wanted Scottish independence than Scottish people did .

Allow English people to vote next time, and you will definitely get a Yes result 

Fine by me. All of that investment that used to be England bound will find its way North. Your loss.

[sanemax]

Just now, AlexRich said:

That was the implied reason for “setting our own trade deals” ... sounds good but doesn’t stand up to closer scrutiny. Sadly, our deals with Canada and Japan will not be as good as the EU’s deal, and our US trade deal under Donald Trump will be one in which he can portray us as “losers”.

 

No you were mistaken and no lie was told .

I will explain to you tomorrow what was meant by "setting our own trade deals"

But it wasnt so that we could trade with other Countries , everyone knows that we tradewith China already

[sanemax]

Just now, AlexRich said:

Fine by me. All of that investment that used to be England bound will find its way North. Your loss.

Who funds who ?

Everyone in England says that we fund Scotland

[AlexRich]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

Who funds who ?

Everyone in England says that we fund Scotland

Debatable point given the amount of North Sea oil revenue used to Fund Mrs Thatchers dole queues. Contrast Scotland to Norway, the wealthiest of Europeans with a massive sovereign wealth fund.

 

The point was that England attracted massive investment from foreign entities looking to set up in the EU ... Japan being one example. I expect the Chinese to be the next big investors. That will become a trickle after Brexit. So Edinburgh will get a boost from financial services and the central belt will get a boost from inward investment that would normally have been England bound.

 

[aright]

9 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Like Singapore and Vietnam are independent but also in ASEAN. A club that you join, and you give up some things in return for benefits. 

 

The big big lie was that everything that the UK do is determined by the EU ... yet laws, tax, currency, interest rates, budgets, military ... are determined by the UK? And the second big lie was that you have to leave the EU to trade with other countries ... even though countries like Italy and Germany do enormous business in places like China? And Scottish whisky is sold in every country in the world, even Saudi Arabia (albeit black market), despite being an EU member.

ASEAN is a poor example. It was set up as an intergovernmental organization aimed primarily at promoting economic and trade growth. If only the EU had stayed that way.

Because of their distinct cultures, histories and languages they never intended it, or thought it possible for it to be morphed into a single political entity. If only the EU had stayed that way.

A primary aim is to promote, collaboration and cooperation among member states not political union.

In what post did I refer to or endorse your so called big lie?

 

 

 

 

 

[aright]

9 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Debatable point given the amount of North Sea oil revenue used to Fund Mrs Thatchers dole queues. Contrast Scotland to Norway, the wealthiest of Europeans with a massive sovereign wealth fund.

 

The point was that England attracted massive investment from foreign entities looking to set up in the EU ... Japan being one example. I expect the Chinese to be the next big investors. That will become a trickle after Brexit. So Edinburgh will get a boost from financial services and the central belt will get a boost from inward investment that would normally have been England bound.

 

Since things are looking so good can we assume Nicola will be calling for a referendum next week?

[Jip99]

2 hours ago, AlexRich said:

Sturgeon’s argument is that it is better to be in large alliances and groupings of countries with common interests. England wants to turn its back on that.

 

 

The UK less Scotland to be more accurate.

[malagateddy]

Is money your main concern in life?

No it is not..however I do not want UK taxpayers money to go to help the economies of foreign countries..I want the money to be spent in the UK for the benefit of UK citizens.

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[RuamRudy]

The burden of proof is pretty low with you, it would seem.

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[RuamRudy]

Since things are looking so good can we assume Nicola will be calling for a referendum next week?

Next week? She's already fired the gun.

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[RuamRudy]

Scotland currently has a £13billion deficit. Can you book me a place at the table when Sturgeon goes to the EU with her begging bowl for a loan, with no Central Bank to guarantee repayment. If they stay with sterling I can guarantee the BOE won't be going guarantor. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

How can Scotland have a deficit when it has no borrowing powers?

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[evadgib]

47 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Next week? She's already fired the gun.

Firing blanks ????

[evadgib]

8 hours ago, AlexRich said:

Please do Max ... I’m sick of the hardly disguised bigotry ... but London, Cambridge, Oxford and Manchester can be part of the New Caledonia. 

Why?

[RuamRudy]

Firing blanks [emoji41]

You could be right about that - if a majority of MPs from other countries in the UK reject our wishes, then we are on our plums once more. At least it will put to bed that ridiculous comparison with Brexit.

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[sanemax]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

How can Scotland have a deficit when it has no borrowing powers?

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The UK has a National debt , if Scotland were to leave the U.K , a portion of the UK National debt will belong to Scotland 

[RuamRudy]

12 minutes ago, sanemax said:

The UK has a National debt , if Scotland were to leave the U.K , a portion of the UK National debt will belong to Scotland 

Agreed, but that is a very different statement. 

[sanemax]

52 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Agreed, but that is a very different statement. 

Just change the word "National debt" to *deficit* 

[sanemax]

10 hours ago, AlexRich said:

Debatable point given the amount of North Sea oil revenue used to Fund Mrs Thatchers dole queues. Contrast Scotland to Norway, the wealthiest of Europeans with a massive sovereign wealth fund.

 

 

The UK recession of the early 80's was nearly 40 years ago , I disagree that they were Thatchers dole queues , as She inherited the economy from the previous Government .

   What about Thatchers boom years , when the economy was booming ?

You are comparing Scotland to Norway and dreaming of Scotland being a wealthy Nation like Norway ?

   Norway has a personal income tax of 55% and VAT at 25 % and corporate tax rates can be as high as 78 % .

  Scotland will have to change its economy to be like Norway .

I was speaking to a Norwegian guy recently and he had just spent two months in a Norwegian jail , his crime , filing his tax returns late