Anger over Brexit sparks new grassroots drive for Scottish independence

[CharlieH]

Oversized images of "tweets" removed.

[RuamRudy]

Scottish people would vote to leave the United Kingdom if Boris Johnson becomes prime minister

 

"The Scottish people will vote for independence from the United Kingdom if Boris Johnson becomes prime minister, according to a new poll.

The current majority against independence in Scotland would be reversed were the former foreign secretary to enter Downing Street, the new Panelbase poll of Scottish voters suggests."

[malagateddy]

R/r..

As I've said before..polls are only polls.
Best pole is the one that you use with the clothes-line.
You can trust that one.[emoji6]

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[RuamRudy]

11 hours ago, malagateddy said:

R/r..

As I've said before..polls are only polls.
Best pole is the one that you use with the clothes-line.
You can trust that one.

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Indeed Teddy - that is why we must redouble our efforts, leave nothing to chance...

[RuamRudy]

Every new day brings added material for the independence movement. Today's gem is from Jeremy Vine and Paul Burrell, who assert that Scotland has nothing to offer the world except bagpipes and a 'monster in a lake'. Keep 'em coming, I say!

 

 

[nkg]

On 6/21/2019 at 5:46 AM, AlexRich said:

We have plenty of bigots and racists in Scotland, who bend their knee to the English Queen. We always have had. 

 

But the point stands ... Brexit is simply little England in the voting booth ... insular and narrow minded. And the areas that rejected it ... Manchester, Liverpool, Oxford, Cambridge, Bath, Bristol, London, are a good deal more outward looking.

 

Did you just watch your Braveheart DVD again? ????

 

There is an amusing irony to Scottish remainers who want a second referendum. Scotland voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU:

 

 

 

As you can see from the numbers above, if Scotland were to leave the United Kingdom, the Brexiteers would easily win a second referendum .....

 

[vogie]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

Every new day brings added material for the independence movement. Today's gem is from Jeremy Vine and Paul Burrell, who assert that Scotland has nothing to offer the world except bagpipes and a 'monster in a lake'. Keep 'em coming, I say!

 

 

And one of those is fake news.????

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, nkg said:

 

Did you just watch your Braveheart DVD again? ????

 

There is an amusing irony to Scottish remainers who want a second referendum. Scotland voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU:

 

 

 

As you can see from the numbers above, if Scotland were to leave the United Kingdom, the Brexiteers would easily win a second referendum .....

 

And everyone is happy ????

[RuamRudy]

51% of Scots now support a second referendum, and those in favour of independence is up to 49%. Go team Boris!

 

Majority now support early vote on second Scottish independence referendum

[RuamRudy]

End of United Kingdom is now 'more likely than not,' says Nick Clegg

 

In his first print interview - in the New Statesman - since leaving politics and becoming Facebook’s head of global affairs and communications in October 2018, the former Deputy Prime Minister said: “It seems to me that the clock is now ticking for the end of the Union of the United Kingdom.

[MrMuddle]

On 4/25/2019 at 4:21 PM, vogie said:

But Brexit (If it ever happens) automatically ends Scotland’s membership of the EU.

Brexit (when it happens) automatically ends the United Kingdoms membership of the EU.

 

Don’t mistake that as the EU having any objections to an independent Scotland becoming a member of the EU.

Scotland does not want independence, only the SNP want this, please respect the views of all the Scots when posting.

 

I'm a Scot, and I'd take up arms to free Scotland from the so-called "Union". It's never been a Union it has been a domination of the other three Nations by England, for centuries. Let England sink themselves with Brexit, if they're stupid enough to do it.

[aright]

9 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

End of United Kingdom is now 'more likely than not,' says Nick Clegg

 

In his first print interview - in the New Statesman - since leaving politics and becoming Facebook’s head of global affairs and communications in October 2018, the former Deputy Prime Minister said: “It seems to me that the clock is now ticking for the end of the Union of the United Kingdom.

I thought the SNP were against another vote.

Didn't Ms Sturgeon say the 2014 vote was a once in a generation opportunity.

Her word must be worth something surely.

She won big in 2015, lost big in 2016 and 2017.

She lost her overall majority at the last Scottish parliamentary elections in 2016. In the 2017 Westminster, she lost a further 21 seats. Two more were won with majorities of 2 & 21.

I feel these and other seats will go at the next general election. 

One thing I will give her credit for, she manages her own inadequacies as a politician quite well on her own.

A Scottish friend tells me she is known in Scotland as "The Broken Record" …...as you would surmise he is not an SNP supporter.

Having said all this I admit to having no dog in the fight and if the majority of people in Scotland want independence they should get it. The difficulty is (reported in the Scottish Herald) we(UK) are having problems breaking off from a Union of 45 years what difficulties are going to surface over the separation from a Union which has lasted over 300 years?

 

 

 

 

[adammike]

1 minute ago, aright said:

I thought the SNP were against another vote.

Didn't Ms Sturgeon say the 2014 vote was a once in a generation opportunity.

Her word must be worth something surely.

She won big in 2015, lost big in 2016 and 2017.

She lost her overall majority at the last Scottish parliamentary elections in 2016. In the 2017 Westminster, she lost a further 21 seats. Two more were won with majorities of 2 & 21.

I feel these and other seats will go at the next general election. 

One thing I will give her credit for, she manages her own inadequacies as a politician quite well on her own.

A Scottish friend tells me she is known in Scotland as "The Broken Record" …...as you would surmise he is not an SNP supporter.

Having said all this I admit to having no dog in the fight and if the majority of people in Scotland want independence they should get it. The difficulty is (reported in the Scottish Herald) we(UK) are having problems breaking off from a Union of 45 years what difficulties are going to surface over the separation from a Union which has lasted over 300 years?

 

 

 

 

Brexit changes everything.

[welovesundaysatspace]

2 minutes ago, aright said:

 

Didn't Ms Sturgeon say the 2014 vote was a once in a generation opportunity.

I accepted a once in a lifetime opportunity once when I was 29. Guess what, a couple of years later another one came around and I accepted that one too. 

 

[aright]

15 minutes ago, adammike said:

Brexit changes everything.

Of course it does, but if it triggers a mood for independence how come the SNP lost their overall majority in the Scottish Parliament in 2016 and 21 Westminster seats in the 2017 General Election. If you put that together with their record on health services and education etc it seems to me to be a party coming down the ladder not going up.

[aright]

26 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

I accepted a once in a lifetime opportunity once when I was 29. Guess what, a couple of years later another one came around and I accepted that one too. 

 

The difference is you lied to yourself which I assume is value driven and guess what no one criticize's  you because you are only accountable to yourself.  

If Ms Sturgeon pushes for another referendum she will have lied to the electorate, to which she is accountable. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 minute ago, aright said:

The difference is you lied to yourself which I assume is value driven and guess what no one criticize's  you because you are only accountable to yourself.  

No, I didn’t lie to myself. I simply couldn’t look into the future. I guess the same applies for politics. 

 

1 minute ago, aright said:

If Ms Sturgeon pushes for another referendum she will have lied to the electorate, to which she is accountable. 

Some Brexiteers will say that. Everyone else doesn’t care. 

[RuamRudy]

48 minutes ago, aright said:

I thought the SNP were against another vote.

Didn't Ms Sturgeon say the 2014 vote was a once in a generation opportunity.

Her word must be worth something surely.

She won big in 2015, lost big in 2016 and 2017.

She lost her overall majority at the last Scottish parliamentary elections in 2016. In the 2017 Westminster, she lost a further 21 seats. Two more were won with majorities of 2 & 21.

I feel these and other seats will go at the next general election. 

One thing I will give her credit for, she manages her own inadequacies as a politician quite well on her own.

A Scottish friend tells me she is known in Scotland as "The Broken Record" …...as you would surmise he is not an SNP supporter.

Having said all this I admit to having no dog in the fight and if the majority of people in Scotland want independence they should get it. The difficulty is (reported in the Scottish Herald) we(UK) are having problems breaking off from a Union of 45 years what difficulties are going to surface over the separation from a Union which has lasted over 300 years?

 

 

 

 

Elections for the Scottish Parliament use the Modified D'Hondt method, specifically intended to ensure no party could achieve an overall majority. The fact that the SNP once had a majority and still have an almost majority dispels any notion that their star is waning.

 

I must admit to laughing out loud when I read your prediction about the next GE but it shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that you know absolutely nothing about Scottish politics. Your Scottish friend is either lying to you or is equally as clueless. 

 

Chart source: https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/polls_scot.html

 

 

 

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

1 hour ago, aright said:

 

Didn't Ms Sturgeon say the 2014 vote was a once in a generation opportunity.

I accepted a once in a lifetime opportunity once when I was 29. Guess what, a couple of years later another one came around and I accepted that one too. 

 

Something that is repeatedly overlooked - Sturgeon isn't Scottish independence; she doesn't own the rights to it. Whatever she may or may not have said is irrelevant. 

[aright]

13 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Something that is repeatedly overlooked - Sturgeon isn't Scottish independence; she doesn't own the rights to it. Whatever she may or may not have said is irrelevant. 

From Wiki

In a governmental system, a party leader acts as the official representative of their political party. The party leader is typically responsible for managing the party's relationship with the general public. As such, they will take a leading role in developing and communicating party policy, especially election platforms, to the electorate. They are also typically the public face of the respective party and the principal media contact.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_leader

[RuamRudy]

3 minutes ago, aright said:

From Wiki

In a governmental system, a party leader acts as the official representative of their political party. The party leader is typically responsible for managing the party's relationship with the general public. As such, they will take a leading role in developing and communicating party policy, especially election platforms, to the electorate. They are also typically the public face of the respective party and the principal media contact.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_leader

Then, if you wish, I can expand it further - the SNP is not Scottish Independence. They may be the most visible vehicle and the most likely to lead us there, but they neither own it nor define it. Like many independence supporters, I am not a member of the SNP and am not bound by their words or definitions in respect to it. 

[aright]

15 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Then, if you wish, I can expand it further - the SNP is not Scottish Independence. They may be the most visible vehicle and the most likely to lead us there, but they neither own it nor define it. Like many independence supporters, I am not a member of the SNP and am not bound by their words or definitions in respect to it. 

Looking at your postings independence seems very high on your list of priorities. Since the Scottish Labour and Conservative parties are pro unionism, other than the SNP, what party can you vote for to realise your ambitions?

If independence is not a personal priority ,  can I ask, for you, what tops it?

[RuamRudy]

7 minutes ago, aright said:

Looking at your postings independence seems very high on your list of priorities. Since the Scottish Labour and Conservative parties are pro unionism, other than the SNP, what party can you vote for to realise your ambitions?

If independence is not a personal priority ,  can I ask, for you, what tops it?

I feel as strongly about Scottish Independence as do those who have long called for the UK to exit the EU. As with Brexiters and Brussels, I genuinely believe that it is in Scotland's interests to take full control of its own affairs. 

 

But i think you misunderstood my previous point. While they are clearly the most viable option on the table, voting for the SNP does not mean that it obliges me to subscribe to every utterance that their leaders may make. 

 

As Thatcher once said, "Scotland does not need a referendum on independence. She just needs to send a majority of nationalist MPs to Westminster to have a mandate for independence."

[aright]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

I feel as strongly about Scottish Independence as do those who have long called for the UK to exit the EU. As with Brexiters and Brussels, I genuinely believe that it is in Scotland's interests to take full control of its own affairs. 

 

But i think you misunderstood my previous point. While they are clearly the most viable option on the table, voting for the SNP does not mean that it obliges me to subscribe to every utterance that their leaders may make. 

 

As Thatcher once said, "Scotland does not need a referendum on independence. She just needs to send a majority of nationalist MPs to Westminster to have a mandate for independence."

I have to assume since you didn’t answer my question that independence is tops. I have no loyalty to any political party , I have voted for all 3 parties in my life solely on the basis of a manifesto and the political/intellectual qualities of the party leader.

I agree, voting for anyone does not oblige you to subscribe to all of the leaders utterences.

What you are saying, however, by declaring how important independence is, if there is only one major party with independence on the table, as there is, you will vote for them even if the rest of the election manifesto is the longest suicide note in history. Sorry for the exaggeration. You cannot check only the boxes you want in a manifesto you accept it warts and all.

As for what Mrs Thatcher said, since 2017 the number of Nationalists going to Westminster has gone down not up.

 

[RuamRudy]

8 minutes ago, aright said:

I have to assume since you didn’t answer my question that independence is tops. I have no loyalty to any political party , I have voted for all 3 parties in my life solely on the basis of a manifesto and the political/intellectual qualities of the party leader.

I agree, voting for anyone does not oblige you to subscribe to all of the leaders utterences.

What you are saying, however, by declaring how important independence is, if there is only one major party with independence on the table, as there is, you will vote for them even if the rest of the election manifesto is the longest suicide note in history. Sorry for the exaggeration. You cannot check only the boxes you want in a manifesto you accept it warts and all.

As for what Mrs Thatcher said, since 2017 the number of Nationalists going to Westminster has gone down not up.

 

To be honest, I am not sure how to respond to your question. Is Scottish independence more important to me than the security of my family? No. Is it more important to me than the feelings of those who feel the Union is sacred? Yes. 

 

I remember in the dim and distant past an SNP slogan that went along the lines of 'Vote for us and we will resign'. I fully expect that the SNP would splinter post independence. Their uniting ideology is independence, but beneath that there are differing political persuasions. When their raison d'être has gone, I think we will see more traditionally aligned parties emerge.  

[Somtamnication]

I will personally fund the rebuilding of Hadrian's wall. Good riddance! 

[sandyf]

On 7/18/2019 at 6:53 PM, RuamRudy said:

Then, if you wish, I can expand it further - the SNP is not Scottish Independence. They may be the most visible vehicle and the most likely to lead us there, but they neither own it nor define it. Like many independence supporters, I am not a member of the SNP and am not bound by their words or definitions in respect to it. 

Exactly. What many south of the border refuse to acknowledge is that many voted against Alex Salmond rather than against independence. The prospect of Alex Salmond being the leader of an independent Scotland did not sit well with many, myself included.

We will see many change their allegiance to the tories because of Boris Johnson.

 

A substantial rise in independence support amongst Labour voters has also been noted – perhaps as a result of pro-independence supporters looking to that party due to the rise of Jeremy Corbyn and his program. More than one in four Labour voters now support independence.

https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/12863/demographics-independence-2018-edition

[Nigel Garvie]

On 7/19/2019 at 6:12 AM, Somtamnication said:

I will personally fund the rebuilding of Hadrian's wall. Good riddance! 

Your generosity is noted. I will ask my staff to prepare a pro forma invoice. Made from gold blocks to return our oil money that you stole to fund tax cuts for your toffs, or would good old stone do. As you say Hadrian has laid the foundations already.  Are you sure you want to keep Berwick, they do play in the Scottish league, more trouble that they are worth I'd have thought?

[vogie]

I think a lot of Scottish Nationalists think that because some of their fellow Scots voted to remain within the EU that automatically means they wish to leave the United Kingdom, that is not necessarily the case as this lady from the north of the border explains.

 

[RuamRudy]

32 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Your generosity is noted. I will ask my staff to prepare a pro forma invoice. Made from gold blocks to return our oil money that you stole to fund tax cuts for your toffs, or would good old stone do. As you say Hadrian has laid the foundations already.  Are you sure you want to keep Berwick, they do play in the Scottish league, more trouble that they are worth I'd have thought?

The sad irony is that for one seemingly so loyal to his country, he seems not to know that England extends north of Hadrian's wall.