Are retirees welcome in Thailand?

[marcusarelus]

14 minutes ago, totally thaied up said:

If this so called rumor is correct, 50% of my friends will be priced out of Thailand. I hope this is just a unfounded rumor. If it is true, there will be mass change. 

You know it eventually has to change.  To keep out the nationalities Thailand wants to keep out I doubt they will grandfather anyone as that would be counterproductive. 

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I don't get paid to shill for or against anyone or anything.  I'm just telling you how I feel and how the recent changes have effected me.  I'm not trying to distort anything.  When I find a better place than Thailand or Thailand kicks me out - I'll go. 

I never accused you of being paid.

What I have noticed you doing is to overly PROJECT your satisfaction with obviously generally NEGATIVE changes such as losing the embassy letters and needing to import monthly for the income method.

The message you clearly project is that people that can see clearly that is a NEGATIVE change objectively are wrong.

It's not a negative change because you're happy with the change? No, it doesn't work that way. 

Again -- ask 100 expats -- and you will get the common sense answer in abundance, ending embassy letters BAD, requiring monthly imports BAD. 

Edited April 29, 2019 by Jingthing

[marcusarelus]

8 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I never accused you of being paid.

What I have noticed you doing is to overly PROJECT your satisfaction with obviously generally NEGATIVE changes such as losing the embassy letters and needing to import monthly for the income method.

The message you clearly project is that people that can see clearly that is a NEGATIVE change objectively are wrong.

It's not a negative change because you're happy with the change? No, it doesn't work that way. 

Again -- ask 100 expats -- and you will get the common sense answer in abundance, ending embassy letters BAD, requiring monthly imports BAD. 

What is obviously negative for you is just that.  Negative for you.  What is negative for you may or may not be negative to anyone else.  Do a survey how many have actually left?  Then you may have some facts to discuss, until it is just your opinion.  

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

What is obviously negative for you is just that.  Negative for you.  What is negative for you may or may not be negative to anyone else.  Do a survey how many have actually left?  Then you may have some facts to discuss, until it is just your opinion.  

Facts are facts.

Required monthly import is OBJECTIVELY less desirable than no such requirement. 

You continue to paint this as subjective, when it most certainly isn't.

That you are personally happy is irrelevant. 

That's the issue. You saying you're happy, cool.

You saying that facts aren't facts -- not cool. 
You saying that you're happy translates into changing the fact that required monthly import is generally less desirable -- not cool.

 

Edited April 29, 2019 by Jingthing

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Facts are facts.

Required monthly import is OBJECTIVELY less desirable than no such requirement. 

You continue to paint this as subjective, when it most certainly isn't.

That you are personally happy is irrelevant. 

That's the issue. You saying you're happy, cool.

You saying that facts aren't facts -- not cool. 
You saying that you're happy translates into changing the fact that required monthly import is generally less desirable -- not cool.

You had to have 65K coming in for many years.  What's new?  Minus the personal flames. 

[Jingthing]

8 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

You had to have 65K coming in for many years.  What's new?  Minus the personal flames. 

Oh  please. This is getting bizarre now. Next level gaslighting.

 

-- Nobody "had to have" 65K baht coming in to Thailand for many years.

Not even ONE person had to have that.

The IMPORT requirements are completely new, for people using income method without embassy letters.

Why would you even try to push something so blatantly false? I'm really stunned. Do you think readers are stupid and don't know the history going back so recently? 

 

I'll ignore your false flame accusation as well. Is that the game when people don't fall for the gaslighting? 

 

Again there is no problem in any way if you or other people are happy with the changes. But trying to sell up is down and down is up and trying to tell people that can clearly see up is up that they're wrong, well, that is just totally messed up. 

Edited April 29, 2019 by Jingthing

[totally thaied up]

Fact for me was taking away the income letter was negative.

 

Fact for me is if they increase the amount they want to higher amounts it will make me likely want to move.

 

Fact is I tell all my friends wanting to move to Thailand now to be extremely well funded, have good health coverage and be prepared for TM 30, 90 day reports. I also say at anytime, you can have the goal posts moved. It certainly is not user friendly like it was ten years ago. 

[Jingthing]

21 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

You had to have 65K coming in for many years.  What's new?  Minus the personal flames. 

To add, I think the time has come for me to voluntarily disengage. My position is clear -- some things are objectively NEGATIVE changes even if some individual people are happy with the NEGATIVE changes. I'll let things stand with that. 

Edited April 29, 2019 by Jingthing

[keemapoot]

12 minutes ago, totally thaied up said:

Fact for me was taking away the income letter was negative.

 

Fact for me is if they increase the amount they want to higher amounts it will make me likely want to move.

 

Fact is I tell all my friends wanting to move to Thailand now to be extremely well funded, have good health coverage and be prepared for TM 30, 90 day reports. I also say at anytime, you can have the goal posts moved. It certainly is not user friendly like it was ten years ago. 

By any objective measure things have changed and made more difficult for long term expats in Thailand of all sorts. For retirees, in particular, as JT has been arguing, and as you have noted, having movable goal posts is particularly upsetting to making long term plans. It means everyone should be wary of cutting ties to home countries, and in some cases, that will mean not having the resources to fund these accounts in Thailand, while still keeping a base at home.

 

But, the trend has been there for some time starting with eliminating back packer teachers, then moving to retirees and married to Thais, and it clearly seems as though there is a desire to reduce long term expats in Thailand in favor of short term tourists, mostly from China, obviously.

[marcusarelus]

18 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Oh  please. This is getting bizarre now. Next level gaslighting.

 

-- Nobody "had to have" 65K baht coming in to Thailand for many years.

Not even ONE person had to have that.

The IMPORT requirements are completely new, for people using income method without embassy letters.

Why would you even try to push something so blatantly false? I'm really stunned. Do you think readers are stupid and don't know the history going back so recently? 

 

I'll ignore your false flame accusation as well. Is that the game when people don't fall for the gaslighting? 

 

Again there is no problem in any way if you or other people are happy with the changes. But trying to sell up is down and down is up and trying to tell people that can clearly see up is up that they're wrong, well, that is just totally messed up. 

I thought to get a retirement extension using the income method one had to have a pension of 65K and since said expat lived in Thailand it would make sense it came here.  It was the same as the 800k in a Thai bank except it came in in 12 installments. 

 

That's what I did and everyone I know did. 

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

I thought to get a retirement extension using the income method one had to have a pension of 65K and since said expat lived in Thailand it would make sense it came here.  It was the same as the 800k in a Thai bank except it came in in 12 installments. 

 

That's what I did and everyone I know did. 

To get a retirement extension, you need to have Income of 65k, there was no requirement to bring it in the country at all & whilst it may make sense to you to import it every month, to others it didn't as they instead choose to do something from not importing anything at all (using foreign ATM cards) to transferring in less frequent chunks (E.g. Somebody who receives substantial income from Dividends / Funds may be paid 2/4 times a year and it makes sense for them to transfer it at those times).

 

I personally don't understand why they don't accept quarterly (240k) transfers or half-yearly (360k) transfers, insisting on it being monthly feels officious. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[marcusarelus]

45 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

To get a retirement extension, you need to have Income of 65k, there was no requirement to bring it in the country at all & whilst it may make sense to you to import it every month, to others it didn't as they instead choose to do something from not importing anything at all (using foreign ATM cards) to transferring in less frequent chunks (E.g. Somebody who receives substantial income from Dividends / Funds may be paid 2/4 times a year and it makes sense for them to transfer it at those times).

 

I personally don't understand why they don't accept quarterly (240k) transfers or half-yearly (360k) transfers, insisting on it being monthly feels officious.

 

I understand what you are saying but if they wanted you to have 800k on deposit in Thailand why wouldn't they want you to bring the 65k in? 

[CharlieH]

reported/off topic posts removed.

[MeePeeMai]

19 hours ago, ravip said:

Why jump the hoops? Just open a savings account, deposit Baht 800K and forget about it until the visa renewal time.

Really, is this such a HUGE problem? if so, might as well stay at home and take a nap.

 

HUGE problem, no.  FOOLISH move, Yes!

 

The main reason for me is that most of my cash (other than my emergency fund) is tied up in a IRA account in the USA which requires a 10 percent IRS penalty for early withdrawal (if under 59 1/2 years of age).  I am only 58 y.o. now.

 

Would you be willing to GIFT the IRS 2500-3000 dollars just to take some cash out early?  Maybe you need a nap ravip.

[marcusarelus]

3 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:

HUGE problem, no.  FOOLISH move, Yes!

 

The main reason for me is that most of my cash (other than my emergency fund) is tied up in a IRA account in the USA which requires a 10 percent IRS penalty for early withdrawal (if under 59 1/2 years of age).  I am only 58 y.o. now.

 

Would you be willing to GIFT the IRS 2500-3000 dollars just to take some cash out early?  Maybe you need a nap ravip.

Maybe I got it wrong but didn't you say money was no problem?  Now it seems money is the problem and that makes your other posts understandable.   Thailand like all countries only welcomes people with enough money to retire by honoring their retirement requirements.  Malaysia wants a whole lot more money as does any country with the same level of infrastructure development in South East Asia.

Edited April 29, 2019 by marcusarelus

[MeePeeMai]

10 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

Can't you can file the TM30 at your local Police Station (others who live a long way away from their Immigration Office do)...

As I posted in another thread, we went to the police station and tried that route.  The Big boss and others there didn't have a clue what we were trying to accomplish ...so I should them a copy of the rule in Thai and they said that "We don't care about that here.  Maybe they do that in Bangkok but we don't do that here."

 

No report there = I am not in compliance.

[marcusarelus]

3 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:

As I posted in another thread, we went to the police station and tried that route.  The Big boss and others there didn't have a clue what we were trying to accomplish ...so I should them a copy of the rule in Thai and they said that "We don't care about that here.  Maybe they do that in Bangkok but we don't do that here."

 

No report there = I am not in compliance.

It's not really a big problem and you were advised what to do by a number of posters.  Don't know if all the information stayed up but certainly not an insurmountable issue. 

[MeePeeMai]

15 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Maybe I got it wrong but didn't you say money was no problem?  Now it seems money is the problem and that makes your other posts understandable.   Thailand like all countries only welcomes people with enough money to retire by honoring their retirement requirements.  Malaysia wants a whole lot more money as does any country with the same level of infrastructure development in South East Asia.

I don't have any money problems (as I said).  I have a nice monthly pension for the rest of my life which is almost double the 65k baht minimum.  I transfer more than the minimum 65k baht every month for the income method.  I also have savings in Hawaii which I keep in case of sudden emergencies at my home (which is now rented out).

 

I also have a healthy IRA which is invested doing well and I am not taking any of that money out until age 59 1/2 due to the mandated IRS early withdrawal penalty of 10 percent (plus state and fed taxes)

 

I also have enough in my Bangkok Bank account here here to qualify for a spousal extension (should I choose to go that route) without the need for them to even look at my monthly foreign transfers.  

 

Do I have 800k here now?  No.  Do I need to have 800k here now?  No.  Would it be wise for me to take money out of my IRA in the USA just to put 800k in my account now?  No.

 

Does it seem like I really have a money problem?  I don't feel that I do but if you are a Dubai sheik than maybe it would appear that I have money problems.

Edited April 29, 2019 by MeePeeMai

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

I understand what you are saying but if they wanted you to have 800k on deposit in Thailand why wouldn't they want you to bring the 65k in? 

Personally I agree, but there are guys who would prefer to keep all of their money in their own country and use a Foreign ATM card to withdraw it, then there are guys who have an income of 65K but don't spend that much in Thailand per month (maybe they also have outstanding commitments in their own country)

 

 

It really is the having to do it every month that I object to, but I do begrudgingly see that they're trying to check that you do get > 65K income every month, it's just not a very efficient way of doing it re: FX transfers

 

[marcusarelus]

23 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:

I don't have any money problems (as I said).  I have a nice monthly pension for the rest of my life which is almost double the 65k baht minimum.  I transfer more than the minimum 65k baht every month for the income method.  I also have savings in Hawaii which I keep in case of sudden emergencies at my home (which is now rented out).

 

I also have a healthy IRA which is invested doing well and I am not taking any of that money out until age 59 1/2 due to the mandated IRS early withdrawal penalty of 10 percent (plus state and fed taxes)

 

I also have enough in my Bangkok Bank account here here to qualify for a spousal extension (should I choose to go that route) without the need for them to even look at my monthly foreign transfers.  

 

Do I have 800k here now?  No.  Do I need to have 800k here now?  No.  Would it be wise for me to take money out of my IRA in the USA just to put 800k in my account now?  No.

 

Does it seem like I really have a money problem?  I don't feel that I do but if you are a Dubai sheik than maybe it would appear that I have money problems.

Not too much older than you I had a 300,000 baht hospital bill that I needed cash for.  How would you handle that?

Edited April 29, 2019 by marcusarelus

[MeePeeMai]

17 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Not too much older than you I had a 300,000 hospital bill that I needed cash for.  How would you handle that?

Like I said, I have more than 400k in my BKK bank savings account here in Thailand.  I also have more than 10k dollars in a savings account in Hawaii which is for any repairs or emergencies for my home there (such as a new roof/plumbing leak etc) so if I had to, I could easily tap into that.

 

I also have free Health Insurance (for life) which covers me here in Thailand under the Blue Cross Blue Shield "Global Core" aka Geo Blue program.  This covers me at most private hospitals and some have direct billing (otherwise I would have to pay the bill and submit the receipt to get reimbursed).  This may not be accepted as proof of Health Ins. later on if they require it for retirees but it works for me for now.

 

This is one of the benefits of a long career in the Fire Dept. in the State of Hawaii.  

Edited April 29, 2019 by MeePeeMai

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

I personally don't understand why they don't accept quarterly (240k) transfers or half-yearly (360k) transfers, insisting on it being monthly feels officious. 

I have to agree with that. I used foreign bank statements that showed a quarterly deposit in an overseas bank account specifically set up so that the totals at the end of the year were the equivalent of the required minimum +10%. This was acceptable for the income letter to support the Ret Ext. Of course I was also bringing nearer 2 million baht (equivalent) into the country via monthly transfers and/or ATM withdrawals which was my real, annual family income. Like many, we have the funds in spades but the arcane need for 12 individual transfers into a Thai account that must show that it was of foreign origin and must not vary significantly by deposit date or amount is just another PITA standing order to arrange. It's also far easier to get a bank statement from any overseas bank than same from a Thai bank. The whole updated Thai bank book malarkey from Thai Immigration is such a pointless farce.

[MeePeeMai]

9 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Not too much older than you I had a 300,000 hospital bill that I needed cash for.  How would you handle that?

By the way, did you use GoFundMe to pay the bill by chance?

[marcusarelus]

18 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:

By the way, did you use GoFundMe to pay the bill by chance?

VA.  One of the advantages of fighting in a war and becoming a disabled veteran. 

[MeePeeMai]

2 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

VA.  One of the advantages of fighting in a war and becoming a disabled veteran. 

I'm glad you survived and are still around.  What branch of the armed forces did you serve in?

[Jingthing]

HUGE problem, no.  FOOLISH move, Yes!
 
The main reason for me is that most of my cash (other than my emergency fund) is tied up in a IRA account in the USA which requires a 10 percent IRS penalty for early withdrawal (if under 59 1/2 years of age).  I am only 58 y.o. now.
 
Would you be willing to GIFT the IRS 2500-3000 dollars just to take some cash out early?  Maybe you need a nap ravip.

This is a good example of how the immigration new onerous financial rules fail to take the complexities of people's personal financial situations into account.

You do have the money.

There are probably hundreds of variations of situations like yours.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[marcusarelus]

30 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:

By the way, did you use GoFundMe to pay the bill by chance?

Not necessary to go into my background except to say it is one of the reasons that Thai people like some retirees is we were in the military together and they help when one of us dies and want our ashes spread at U-Tapao. 

[elephant45]

NO!

[MeePeeMai]

11 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

This is a good example of how the immigration new onerous financial rules fail to take the complexities of people's personal financial situations into account.

You do have the money.

There are probably hundreds of variations of situations like yours.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

I agree.  If a USA citizen was to pull funds out of their Individual Retirement Account, or IRA, there is a mandatory 10% early withdrawal penalty if under 59 1/2 years (which you cannot write off), PLUS a 20% mandatory IRS deduction (for Federal Taxes), and add an additional 10% deduction for Hawaii State Income Tax for me (varies state by state) for a grand total of ....

 

....40% right off the top.  So if someone like me wanted to take out enough to put 800k baht in an account here, he/she would need to withdraw at least $42,500.00 USD from said IRA account.  

 

800k Baht (@ 31.5 baht to the USD) = $25,397.00 plus the 40% mentioned above = $42,500.00 (or $42,500.00 x 60% = $25,500.00)

 

I would consider this option to be quite foolish.

 

 

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, MeePeeMai said:

I agree.  If a USA citizen was to pull funds out of their Individual Retirement Account, or IRA, there is a mandatory 10% early withdrawal penalty if under 59 1/2 years (which you cannot write off), PLUS a 20% mandatory IRS deduction (for Federal Taxes), and add an additional 10% deduction for Hawaii State Income Tax for me (varies state by state) for a grand total of ....

 

....40% right off the top.  So if someone like me wanted to take out enough to put 800k baht in an account here, he/she would need to withdraw at least $42,500.00 USD from said IRA account.  

 

800k Baht (@ 31.5 baht to the USD) = $25,397.00 plus the 40% mentioned above = $42,500.00 (or $42,500.00 x 60% = $25,500.00)

 

I would consider this option to be quite foolish.

You don't have the money to retire in Thailand using the 800k method.  Why argue? 

 

It's like trying to right all the wrongs of the IRS.  No one cares.  It's just a waste of life's good times and brings you down.  Find some place more attuned to your situation.