Headache about re entry expiration date on retirement visa

[jean pierrot]

Hello everyone, here is the problem that has given me headache for hours:

 

In April this year, I made my second extension for my visa retirement that is valid until 16 May 2020.... unfortunately, I think I made a mistake by doing a re entry permit before getting this second extension, ignoring that these re entry permits have a date of validity.... then, I went back home to Europe.... today, looking at my passport, I just noticed that the validity of this re entry is based on the last day of my first extension (16 May 2019).... 

 

I would like to know what is going to happen when I go back to Thailand, after this date, in June this year.... are Thai immigration officers going to cancel my extension and give me only 30 days?

 

Another question: If I go back to Thailand before the validity date of my re entry permit expires (let s say 2 or 3 days before), are they going to take my new extension into account ?

 

 

Sorry for my poor english... hoping that you experts on Thai visa issues will bring me answers about this unfortunate situation. 

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

[stevenl]

Sorry, but yes, you do not have a valid re-entry permit. So when you enter you enter without re-entry permit or visa, so you'll, depending on nationality, get a 30 day visa exempt entry.

 

Sorry, just noticed the second part of your question. I think you will be ok with entering before expiration date, but hopefully somebody else will confirm either way.

Edited April 28, 2019 by stevenl

[jean pierrot]

Thanks for your answer, Steven.... will it be the same if I go back to Thailand a few days before the expiration date of my re entry permit ?

[mlkik]

If you go back before the re entry permit expires you should be fine.

[jean pierrot]

Thanks, mlkik... so you think I can "save" my new extension by entering Thailand a few days before the expiration date of my re entry permit, even if this re entry expiration date is based on my former extension ?

[glegolo]

as i see it you have screwed up extension no 2 by leaving thailand without s valid re entry permit...

 

you need to start all over, buy yourself a new non imm O.. AND DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN

 

so yes your extension will be cancelled..

 

glegolo

Edited April 28, 2019 by glegolo

[Dumbastheycome]

15 minutes ago, jean pierrot said:

Thanks, mlkik... so you think I can "save" my new extension by entering Thailand a few days before the expiration date of my re entry permit, even if this re entry expiration date is based on my former extension ?

My take on  your situation is to say yes  to your last post....so long as the start date of your new extension  is clearly stamped to take effect after the  expiry date of your re entry permit.

[KittenKong]

A friend of mine made a similar mistake. He found that renewing his extension early invalidated his existing re-entry permit completely. So I suspect that the OP may be obliged to enter on a 30-day waiver and to restart his entire extension process again. An agent may be able to ease this process, for a price.

 

Moral: always do the re-entry permit after doing the extension.

[mikebell]

14 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

 

Moral: always do the re-entry permit after doing the extension.

Bugger. 3800 up in smoke!  My extension is due next week so two weeks back I bought a multi entry to avoid Songkran.

[KittenKong]

1 minute ago, mikebell said:

Bugger. 3800 up in smoke!  My extension is due next week so two weeks back I bought a multi entry to avoid Songkran.

How annoying. Perhaps you could ask the immigration people nicely if there is anything they can do for you when you apply for your extension? It certainly cant do any harm.

[Joe Mcseismic]

Every re-entry stamp is tied to a certain extension stamp. This is why you have to give a copy of your extension when applying for a re-entry permit.

Y

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, mikebell said:

Bugger. 3800 up in smoke!  My extension is due next week so two weeks back I bought a multi entry to avoid Songkran.

Any re-entry permit is only valid for the period of your current permission to stay.

[Tanoshi]

Two years ago, I had permission to stay until June of that year, which I extended early in May, granting me permission to stay until June 2018.

I then received notification of a family bereavement, so returned to the UK for 5 days, but returning before the expiration of my current extension dated June 2017.

My re-entry permit expiry date was also June 2017.

 

I re-entered Thailand before expiry of my current permission to stay (June 2017) and was stamped in until June 2018, the date of my new permission to stay.

[smo]

2 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Two years ago, I had permission to stay until June of that year, which I extended early in May, granting me permission to stay until June 2018.

I then received notification of a family bereavement, so returned to the UK for 5 days, but returning before the expiration of my current extension dated June 2017.

My re-entry permit expiry date was also June 2017.

 

I re-entered Thailand before expiry of my current permission to stay (June 2017) and was stamped in until June 2018, the date of my new permission to stay. 

The above scenario is the correct. So Pierrot if you replace all Tanoshi's dates with yours then tout ira bien (pardon my French.) Re-entry permit is tied to the expiration date of your extension, however once issued it has a "life on its own" (though its life never goes beyond that of the extension on which it was based.)  I'm pretty sure Pierrot will be ok if returning BEFORE his re-entry permit expires ie May 16. He has a valid permit to re-entry Thailand before May 16 2019 which means he will be allowed to come in before that date - and to stay until whatever his current extension allows which in this case is May 2020 (=YES to his second question.)

 

I can say this with some certainty since I have a French building-mate who was fooled by Immig IO to buy a multi re-entry permit even though his permit to stay has only one more month to go. I like to think re-entry permit is a kind of insurance to keep your extension alive. Once it expires and you happen to be outside Thailand, uh oh, you're dead (your extension that is.) This scenario will happen if Pierrot returns on May 16 or later (=YES to his first question.)

[NoshowJones]

8 hours ago, KittenKong said:

How annoying. Perhaps you could ask the immigration people nicely if there is anything they can do for you when you apply for your extension? It certainly cant do any harm.

Asking a favour from Thai immigration?  

[jean pierrot]

Thanks to everyone for these explanations.... so it seems that the only way to not screw up my new extension is to go back to Thailand a few days before my re entry permit validity expires, even if it is based on my previous extension.... nevertheless, one member here (kiitenkong) states that a new extension invalidates an existing re-entry permit completely, causing a serious doubt in my mind... so, if it is possible, with all due respect, I would like to get a 100 % certified answer from Ubonjoe or someone like him who has full expertize on that matter.

 

Cordially, Pierrot.

[Tanoshi]

With due respect to kittenkong she is mistaken in this instance.

You obtained a re-entry permit which keeps your permission to stay valid on re-entry to Thailand until 16th May, 2019, the same day as your current extension.

Ignore the fact your new extension was applied for and issued early, effectively valid from 17/5/19 - 16/5/20.

[BritTim]

16 hours ago, jean pierrot said:

Thanks, mlkik... so you think I can "save" my new extension by entering Thailand a few days before the expiration date of my re entry permit, even if this re entry expiration date is based on my former extension ?

Just maybe (I doubt it) you will be lucky enough to find immigration officials who interpret the rules differently, but I do not think you have a valid re-entry permit. Once you have a changed end date for your permission to stay, the re-entry permit based on your old (unmodified) permission to stay ceases to be valid.

Forget about returning early trying to save your extension. I am sure it is not possible unless you encounter an immigration official who considers it possible to change your permission to stay by using an old re-entry permit. An official who understands the rules cannot legally help you. They have no discretion to waive the requirements on such things as passports, visas and re-entry permits.

Plan to start your retirement extension process again from scratch. Is there a possibility you could get a Non O-A visa from your home country?

[jean pierrot]

BritTim says: "Forget about returning early trying to save your extension....

 

Hey Brit, you sound pretty sure about that... I trust you, and I won t take the risk to return early for nothing... that s being said, I wonder what will happen to me when I come back in June.... are the immigration officials going to let me enter despite this problem ?

[smo]

According to some posts here, has Pierrot not applied and got the new extension, he can still re-enter Thailand (and keep his current extension alive) before May 16, but since he has, then he could not? Think, just think, of the (il)-logic of that argument: One gets punished for being more cautious and taking care of things ahead of time. The assumption that a new extension kills off an existing re-entry permit only makes sense when said permit is mandatory with each extension renewal. If that were the case, most of Thai visa members here would have been up in arms simply for the fact that each of us would have to fork out an additional 1000 to 4000 baht for no reason, mais c'est pas vrai! (again pardon my French.)

 

Pierrot has till before the stroke of midnight May 15-16 to return and keep his extension (past and present) alive. If the clock struck midnight on that date and he has not shown his face at an Immigration arrival counter, then his extension will die an untimely death. He can DO NOTHING AND STILL GET IN at a later date, and be allowed 30 days of permit-exempt stay but then he will have to restart everything from scratch, totally doable inside Thailand. He can use his own logic to think this through or he can listen to people who seemingly make out of thin air laws that nobody has ever heard of. Oh la la!
 

[BritTim]

39 minutes ago, jean pierrot said:

BritTim says: "Forget about returning early trying to save your extension....

 

Hey Brit, you sound pretty sure about that... I trust you, and I won t take the risk to return early for nothing... that s being said, I wonder what will happen to me when I come back in June.... are the immigration officials going to let me enter despite this problem ?

On arrival, you will explain the circumstances, and be admitted according to the normal rules, with previous extensions and re-entry permits just ignored I suggest you try to acquire a Non O-A visa or single entry Non O visa and enter using that. Failing that, I am assuming you come from a country whose nationals are entitled to visa exempt entry, and you will be admitted for 30 days. If you enter visa exempt, you should then quickly visit you local immigration office and look to initiate a process often called "conversion" where you end up with a 90-day non immigrant permission to stay based on mainly meeting the requirements later for a retirement extension.

[BritTim]

16 minutes ago, smo said:

According to some posts here, has Pierrot not applied and got the new extension, he can still re-enter Thailand (and keep his current extension alive) before May 16, but since he has, then he could not? Think, just think, of the (il)-logic of that argument: One gets punished for being more cautious and taking care of things ahead of time. The assumption that a new extension kills off an existing re-entry permit only makes sense when said permit is mandatory with each extension renewal. If that were the case, most of Thai visa members here would have been up in arms simply for the fact that each of us would have to fork out an additional 1000 to 4000 baht for no reason, mais c'est pas vrai! (again pardon my French.)

A re-entry permit protects a valid existing permission to stay. You can only have one valid re-entry permit, and it is tied to your most recent permission to stay. A new permission to stay cancels any old one and any re-entry permit tied to it. You can feel it is unfair, but that is the reality. A related issue that has occurred in the past is someone leaving Thailand (with a valid re-entry permit) being on return to Thailand erroneously by the immigration official given only a visa exempt entry, leaving Thailand again (not yet noticing that you had not been correctly stamped in earlier and then returning again trying to use the re-entry permit. This was rejected as your most recent permission to stay was the visa exempt entry, it is too late to correct the error, and the visa exempt entry invalidated the previous permission to stay with its re-entry permit. This was more unfair, because the problem was caused 100% by immigration's error, with the poor foreigner only guilty of trusting the official to have done his job correctly.

[jacko45k]

23 hours ago, mikebell said:

Bugger. 3800 up in smoke!  My extension is due next week so two weeks back I bought a multi entry to avoid Songkran.

Why did you get a multiple? Be optimistic, 2800 up in smoke. 

[Orton Rd]

They might give you a free pass. I once got stamped out at immigration with an extension and no reentry permit at all. Changed my mind in the airport and got back out, extension was still valid.

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, Orton Rd said:

They might give you a free pass. I once got stamped out at immigration with an extension and no reentry permit at all. Changed my mind in the airport and got back out, extension was still valid.

That was because they canceled you departure stamp.

[stevenl]

Op can try to re-enter latest 15th of may on re-entry permit. If it is not accepted he can enter visa exempt, nothing to lose by trying.