Chiang Mai tourism is dead! But no one mentions the impact of smog crisis

[legend49]

Pollution doesnt bring ca$h tourists do thats why.

[bristolgeoff]

most of march was very bad with the smog,everyday.after Songkran they also know it is dead apart from thais and expats.the government should listen to the thais with respect to the bar business and hrs they are open.later opening hrs  would help the nth with tourist coming up to chiangmai and chiangrai as well.it was much better many years ago when bars were open later  and tourist did come for that.but will they listen I think not

[jak2002003]

16 hours ago, connda said:

No it's not.  I saw Chinese tourists feeding the pigeons in front of the No Feeding The Pigeons sign at Thapae Gate just a couple of days ago.  All is well!   Plenty of Chinese tourist hanging around. 
And I saw a bunch of farang on motorbikes being pulled over and ticketed on Kotchasan Road east of the canal.  The BIB were very welcoming as they took their 400 THB for whatever offense they could come up with. Most farang drivers seemed to be in the process of being parted from 400 THB and obtaining a souvenir BIB autographed traffic ticket!  Very welcoming!!!  I know those tourist are planning return trips in the future.

You are fine with tourists coming to a country, riding a motor bike which they have no licence for and they have never ridden a motor bike in the lives, wearing no helmets or other safety gear, oblivious to any dangers and even worse having their children on there too with no helmets?  Throw in having a few beers at lunch times in before they wobble back on the scooter to the hostel.... this is all good?  Its the Thai traffic police are in the wrong for trying to stop this?

 

If tourists came to your home country and did that would you tell the police not to stop or fine them?  Unbelievable.  

[Kasane]

No way for NE Thailand to get rid of smog during the months when locals and bordering countries burn sugarcane and forests. Not only tourists but the more so the local population will be effected with respiratory and related health problems. No practical solution to this recurring smog problem that arises out of need to provide livelihood for millions of Thais, but the practice causes massive environmental stress that adversely effects the health of the population.

[JimSaints]

Spoiler alert to Thais that scratch their heads and wonder why tourists don't like pollution from smog : Its gonna be empty for a long time and not just for a few weeks or even months

[totally thaied up]

Ten years ago, I thought I had found paradise. Today, I just see roads over run with traffic, masses of Chinese and to me most worrying is higher PM 2.5 figures for longer periods every year. This year, I got away for three months to see family and run from the smoke. Next year I will have to do the same, maybe even longer. If it was not for the Thai wife and CM being her hometown, I would now be living in a different Country. I am happy I have very little invested in CM as for a long term business it is just a losing situation. I have had two businesses in CM and during peak season they just made enough money so you could limp through the low season with just a very small profit in the end. It was just not worth working to make ends meet all year. At the time, my girlfriend thought it was okay as we lived generally rent free and all bills with a little left over per month but it was a lot of work for her and really not worth it for the man hours put in. Twelve to fourteen hours a day she was open, seven days a week.

 

On 4/30/2019 at 3:13 PM, webfact said:

They too mentioned no connection with the smog. They blamed the hot weather saying clearly the tourists had gone to cool off in the sea in Pattaya and Rayong

Got to laugh at that. No connection. ???????? From February onwards, it was really bad this year. I left in March and missed the worst of it. If anyone says this is not affecting tourism, they got to be blind drunk. 

[tlandtday]

3 minutes ago, totally thaied up said:

Ten years ago, I thought I had found paradise. Today, I just see roads over run with traffic, masses of Chinese and to me most worrying is higher PM 2.5 figures for longer periods every year. This year, I got away for three months to see family and run from the smoke. Next year I will have to do the same, maybe even longer. If it was not for the Thai wife and CM being her hometown, I would now be living in a different Country. I am happy I have very little invested in CM as for a long term business it is just a losing situation. I have had two businesses in CM and during peak season they just made enough money so you could limp through the low season with just a very small profit in the end. It was just not worth working to make ends meet all year. At the time, my girlfriend thought it was okay as we lived generally rent free and all bills with a little left over per month but it was a lot of work for her and really not worth it for the man hours put in. Twelve to fourteen hours a day she was open, seven days a week.

 

Got to laugh at that. No connection. ???????? From February onwards, it was really bad this year. I left in March and missed the worst of it. If anyone says this is not affecting tourism, they got to be blind drunk. 

And I have been monitoring Pattaya pollution the last couple years and I can tell you it is unsafe from November to April right duing the high season.  In fact visibility is so bad you cannot see Koh Larn from the shore most days.  This is a result of buses, cars, burning and factories in a period with unfavorable winds blowing it all in.

[connda]

15 hours ago, chickenrunCM said:

Why is it bad that police stops people and check if hey have driver license? They stop thais too! And the fine should be 10 times higher for driving a motorbike without a license.

8 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

You are fine with tourists coming to a country, riding a motor bike which they have no licence for and they have never ridden a motor bike in the lives, wearing no helmets or other safety gear, oblivious to any dangers and even worse having their children on there too with no helmets?  Throw in having a few beers at lunch times in before they wobble back on the scooter to the hostel.... this is all good?  Its the Thai traffic police are in the wrong for trying to stop this?

 

If tourists came to your home country and did that would you tell the police not to stop or fine them?  Unbelievable.  

"Its the Thai traffic police are in the wrong for trying to stop this?"

 

Lol.  But they are not 'trying to stop this."

They only pulled over motorcycles and let all the cars pass.  You don't understand the nature of the money making activities?  It has nothing to do with enforcement.  These are money generation stations that pick their fruit off of the lowest branches.  Pulling cars over takes up too much room and takes too much time.  Motorcycles are their targets.  Small in size, easy to pull over, quick and easy to process, and if the rider is foreign it's almost a guaranteed 400 THB.  If the government was about enforcement, then if a rider (driver) is unlicensed or without a helmet then their vehicle would be impounded and they forced to walk and it would be illegal for the rental shops to rent a motorcycle to an unlicensed rider in the first place and they should face fines in addition to paying to get their rental vehicles out of impoundment - but it doesn't work that way.    Cha-Ching - it's about generating cash flows for the BIB. No license?  No helmet?  Pay a fine and you're on your way.  No problem.  Because it's not about safety or enforcement.
Nobody cares about real traffic enforcement here.  And only the deluded think traffic enforcement is real.  It's not and never will be which is why the roads of carnage are so damn dangerous.  

[Nowisee]

The damage is done.  I'm out.


 

[Gonzo the Face]

On 4/30/2019 at 12:37 PM, Captain_Bob said:

It's dead now for several reasons: 

Low season after Songkran, always was, always will be. 

Seasonal burning/smoke/haze. Same same but worse. Politicians/cops useless. 

Social media: "most polluted city on earth", true or false doesn't matter. 

Hot as ####! and this year almost zero rains. Al Gore was right. 

Chinese invasion, which despite arrivals doesn't bring much local income. 

And... the continued failure of over-saturated copy-cat business sense: 

Let's open a cheap guesthouse / travel agency / restaurant and money will fall out of the sky!!! 

Note your last sentence,,,,,,,,  you made no mention of the fact that better than a year ago a police mandate was issued to all guesthouses that they could not do nightly rentals.  Needed a Hotel License now to do.  There is a difference between a guest house and a hotel as there is a difference between a car and a truck.  ...and the vehicle laws pertaining to cars vs trucks are different.  Hotel licensing rules make it just about impossible for a small guesthouse to meet same.  There should be different rules for guesthouses vs hotels as there are for cars and trucks.

[jak2002003]

16 hours ago, connda said:

"Its the Thai traffic police are in the wrong for trying to stop this?"

 

Lol.  But they are not 'trying to stop this."

They only pulled over motorcycles and let all the cars pass.  You don't understand the nature of the money making activities?  It has nothing to do with enforcement.  These are money generation stations that pick their fruit off of the lowest branches.  Pulling cars over takes up too much room and takes too much time.  Motorcycles are their targets.  Small in size, easy to pull over, quick and easy to process, and if the rider is foreign it's almost a guaranteed 400 THB.  If the government was about enforcement, then if a rider (driver) is unlicensed or without a helmet then their vehicle would be impounded and they forced to walk and it would be illegal for the rental shops to rent a motorcycle to an unlicensed rider in the first place and they should face fines in addition to paying to get their rental vehicles out of impoundment - but it doesn't work that way.    Cha-Ching - it's about generating cash flows for the BIB. No license?  No helmet?  Pay a fine and you're on your way.  No problem.  Because it's not about safety or enforcement.
Nobody cares about real traffic enforcement here.  And only the deluded think traffic enforcement is real.  It's not and never will be which is why the roads of carnage are so damn dangerous.  

They are motor bike check points... not car check points.  Go to other locations... they are stopping only cars and not bikes.  Also you don't need to wear a crash helmet driving a car, and hopefully not many tourists will drive a car having not passed a driving test or ever driven one before in their lives.

 

 

[donnacha]

I am genuinely surprised when I hear other members here state the range of months they consider the pollution to be bad in CM. Many years ago I came to the conclusion that, if you value your long-term health, you should get out in the first week or two of January and not return until May.

It will only get worse. The locally generated pollution will increase as the building boom continues, and no government will ever be able to control the regional burning - any Westerner angrily insisting that the authorities should "do something" simply does not understand the sheer size of the region and the scale of the problem.

If the pollution season starts to expand into December too, the northern tourist industry will be in dire trouble. I have already shifted the Thais in my life into online business so that they can more easily spend half the year somewhere safe. Anyone considering Chiang Mai as a year-round home needs their head examined.

[Danthai]

On 4/30/2019 at 3:13 PM, newnative said:

   Only money or very bad international publicity gets any action on problems in Thailand.  Perhaps the loss of tourists--with the loss of their money--will spur some action on the bad smog.  But, don't hold your breath.  Err, maybe do hold your breath if you are outside in CM.

Maybe they will have the sense, but don't count on it, to start appreciating the expats living here and the money they spend here, even if it is not as high as they want to make it easier to stay.

[totally thaied up]

I read a blog the other day about why expats leave to live overseas. For me ten years ago it was for adventure and to make my dollar go further. I saw a lot of SEA and decided Chiang Mai was a clean and cheap place to stay. Now with the AUD in the bin, inflation and the three to four months of smoke, it really has me thinking have I done the right thing. Having to spend three months a year to get away from the smoke has just poured the bucket over the thought of full-time retirement here. Those that stay I find are those that are stuck with families and that must truly suck. Others are apologists that most likely cannot get away from it all. Who really wants to suck that amount of pollution into your lungs. One friend of mine that is not well funded and cannot get away spent two months in his condo this year, not going out at all. The government has to be blind drunk not to see what is going on and this is going to affect the bottom line for a lot of businesses. People are asking me while I am on holidays in Australia how is Chiang Mai now and I just got to tell them not to come during the smokey season. I have no faith at all in hoping they will clean these issues up. It is really a shame what has happened here. The region is just too big to monitor and we have neighbors that burn as well. Nope, not going change. You need a plan B from February onwards if you value your health.

[THAIJAMES]

3 hours ago, totally thaied up said:

I read a blog the other day about why expats leave to live overseas. For me ten years ago it was for adventure and to make my dollar go further. I saw a lot of SEA and decided Chiang Mai was a clean and cheap place to stay. Now with the AUD in the bin, inflation and the three to four months of smoke, it really has me thinking have I done the right thing. Having to spend three months a year to get away from the smoke has just poured the bucket over the thought of full-time retirement here. Those that stay I find are those that are stuck with families and that must truly suck. Others are apologists that most likely cannot get away from it all. Who really wants to suck that amount of pollution into your lungs. One friend of mine that is not well funded and cannot get away spent two months in his condo this year, not going out at all. The government has to be blind drunk not to see what is going on and this is going to affect the bottom line for a lot of businesses. People are asking me while I am on holidays in Australia how is Chiang Mai now and I just got to tell them not to come during the smokey season. I have no faith at all in hoping they will clean these issues up. It is really a shame what has happened here. The region is just too big to monitor and we have neighbors that burn as well. Nope, not going change. You need a plan B from February onwards if you value your health.

Unfortunately it seems to get worse and longer each year no hope in sight.

[Sambotte]

They will do something because money speaks in Thailand.

And now the whole world knows about the smoking enormous problem in north Thailand, and the pollution all year in Chiang Mai town.

But as usual it will take years.

 

- Easy : law and enforcement against the songthaw and tuk-tuk, amazingly polluting the city, and maybe the diesel cars. Put traffic controls : easy. And solutions, like filters or whatever works.

- Easy : stop being stupid like ending the smoking ban now (that's unbelievable), and stop the mushroom thing too.

- Not so easy (need army i would say) : control the farmers, no more fire !

- Difficult for Thai obviously : learn how to deal with farming waste, and preparation of lands.

- By the way start to control/fine the many trash fire they like to do anywhere in Thailand.

- Very difficult : like Singapore with smoking problem with Indonesia, prepare huge diplomacy to stop the burning from Myanmar and Laos.

 

Will take years if they can realize. 

But yes indeed tourism (and real estate for another example) in the whole north will suffer, media will watch, so money loss will make Thailand address this big issue, somehow... 

 

[namatjira]

It’s the burning of national parks.....what they call arson....the hotspots are everywhere.......hundreds of them , all close to chiangmai.......they burn these parks to get an increased crop of mushrooms that are very expensive, they don’t torch the mountains for fun, it’s all money driven.,,.this trade has really picked up with these mushrooms now in demand in China....The government has to ban the trade, ban the mushroom, or figure a way to cultivate them properly and cheaply....much like they did with Japanese variety mushrooms some years ago........

take away the arson and it wouldn’t nearly be so bad.....they burn all the forests around Mae Hong Son not for spite, but for mushrooms.....this new player in the smog problem needs some attention....

[Sparkles]

Its more than just a local problem Thailand still doesn't have an elected Government weeks after the election. Deals have to be made. Cronyism and nepotism is there for all to see. Laws ,bans are made and never enforced.Criminals like the Red Bull heir are not pursued, the country is riddled with corruption.

 

Not one single person has been arrested for contravening the burning ban,don't expect change.

 

Meanwhile foreigners prop up the banks by being told to leave 800,000 baht in the bank for retirement. CM is still being promoted world wide as a retirement paradise

 

I guess that negates all the Thai people who are in debt up to their ears. Our village is surrounded by closed shutters where once Thais ran businesses

 

Thai personal household debt is at an all time high .How long can the country sustain this ? especially with the Thai baht judged as the best performimg currency in Asia.Who knows ?

 

The Australian dollar reached a 17 yr low against the baht this week.Many Aussies I know would like to get out ,this is not what we signed up for but the real estate market in CM must suffer so do you cut and run ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[totally thaied up]

12 hours ago, Sparkles said:

he Australian dollar reached a 17 yr low against the baht this week.Many Aussies I know would like to get out ,this is not what we signed up for

Yes, I am at home now and it is lovely that a dollar is worth a dollar, all staple food requirements are cheap and most of all, no smoke. Friends sent me photos from Mon Cham and it still showed smoke in the air. I mean, it is May already and it still has not cleared up. I am back next month and do hope the rains have come.

[Vacuum]

On 4/30/2019 at 7:54 AM, Bezdomny said:

CM is dead after 1am

So am I.

[canuckamuck]

On 4/30/2019 at 2:54 PM, Bezdomny said:

CM is dead after 1am, you have seldom place where you can have a beer.

That's because you should be in bed.

[Uptooyoo]

Most Thais I talk to say it is too expensive to adopt European air pollution standards. And when I counter that it is too expensive not to, they look dumbfounded. I explain to them that the expense is paid at the hospital by those who get lung cancer, emphysema, COPD, heart attack, stroke...in addition to the lost revenue from tourism. It seems they can't make the connection that buying a cheap two-stroke motorbike or buying a cheap diesel truck with no emission control systems may have an immediate cost reduction for the buyer but ultimately costs society much more in medical costs, premature deaths; and least important, lost tourism revenue. In resignation, I simply smile and say, "In the west we put filters on our cars, in Asia you put them on your face."

[Just1Voice]

When I first moved to Thailand/Chiang Mai a little over 10 years ago, we bought a nice house in a relatively small, new moo bahn 18 klm south east of the city.. Not much of anything other than rice fields around, and relatively no traffic on Hwy 121 going past us. Smoke in the air was bad 2-3 months a year, but still liveable

 

Fast forward 10 years. Where there was once only 3 moo bans on a 6 klm stretch of road, there are now six. Major Home Improvement and Paint stores appeared as if by magic. 7/11's popped up like mushrooms after a Spring shower. And the traffic tripled. Now they are expanding 121 to 4 lanes, and the traffic has become a nightmare, There have been times we have had to sit and wait for nearly 10 minutes just to pull out of our moo bahn on to 121. It has gotten so bad that that we have discussed selling our house and go looking for a quieter place in Doi Saket. 

[masuk]

On 4/30/2019 at 5:18 PM, koolkarl said:

BBC news and other noted media clearly noted that Chiang Mai was the most

polluted city in the world.  No wonder tourism is way down and will be for years to come.

A company called Sunshine canceled a 500,000,000 baht retirement community due to pollution.

I have had 2 friends die from lung cancer and after 17 years I have had enough.  Throw in the never

ending immigration issues and you can be your own judge.

A couple of years ago, I returned to Australia for a complete medical check-up.  The cardiologist referred me to a lung specialist, and after some comprehensive testing, he asked me how much I smoked.  I told him the honest truth - it was a single cigarette my neighbour and I had 'borrowed ' from his father at age 12.   

He seemed a bit puzzled until I told him I lived in Chiang Mai, which was heavily polluted 3-4 months of the year, and unregulated diesel-fueled vehicles all year around.  He suggested I give it up, which I eventually did. ????

 

[the guest]

We are very aware of the pollution in Thailand (especially in the north). The media and other NGO's have done an excellent job in making the public aware that the country is not the place to visit in the months where smog and other pollutants are around.

 

https://www.unicef.org/thailand/press-releases/unicef-thailand-statement-unhealthy-level-air-pollution-and-its-impact-children

[samsensam]

On 5/1/2019 at 4:05 AM, jak2002003 said:

You are fine with tourists coming to a country, riding a motor bike which they have no licence for and they have never ridden a motor bike in the lives, wearing no helmets or other safety gear, oblivious to any dangers and even worse having their children on there too with no helmets?  Throw in having a few beers at lunch times in before they wobble back on the scooter to the hostel.... this is all good?  Its the Thai traffic police are in the wrong for trying to stop this?

 

If tourists came to your home country and did that would you tell the police not to stop or fine them?  Unbelievable.  

 

some valid points but the truth is the police dont stop the illegal and dangerous activities on the roads. once the 'fine' has been paid the individuals are free to continue as before. sadly the vast majority of the police dont care about protecting and serving the public, they just care about making money.

[overherebc]

On 5/15/2019 at 3:02 PM, Uptooyoo said:

Most Thais I talk to say it is too expensive to adopt European air pollution standards. And when I counter that it is too expensive not to, they look dumbfounded. I explain to them that the expense is paid at the hospital by those who get lung cancer, emphysema, COPD, heart attack, stroke...in addition to the lost revenue from tourism. It seems they can't make the connection that buying a cheap two-stroke motorbike or buying a cheap diesel truck with no emission control systems may have an immediate cost reduction for the buyer but ultimately costs society much more in medical costs, premature deaths; and least important, lost tourism revenue. In resignation, I simply smile and say, "In the west we put filters on our cars, in Asia you put them on your face."

Never try to explain what will happen in the future.

The future doesn't exist.

[BritManToo]

On 5/15/2019 at 3:02 PM, Uptooyoo said:

Most Thais I talk to say it is too expensive to adopt European air pollution standards. And when I counter that it is too expensive not to, they look dumbfounded. I explain to them that the expense is paid at the hospital by those who get lung cancer, emphysema, COPD, heart attack, stroke...in addition to the lost revenue from tourism. It seems they can't make the connection that buying a cheap two-stroke motorbike or buying a cheap diesel truck with no emission control systems may have an immediate cost reduction for the buyer but ultimately costs society much more in medical costs, premature deaths; and least important, lost tourism revenue. In resignation, I simply smile and say, "In the west we put filters on our cars, in Asia you put them on your face."

But in Northern Thailand vehicles aren't the problem, it's the farmers burning fields, and hilltribes burning forests.

Concentrating your forces on 3% of the problem is madness, if you can't restrict the 97%.

In some ways you are as blinkered as the Thais by your socialist programming.

 

Technology isn't the problem.

Primitive tribesmen with matches are the problem.

[sanemax]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

But in Northern Thailand vehicles aren't the problem, it's the farmers burning fields, and hilltribes burning forests.

Concentrating your forces on 3% of the problem is madness, if you can't restrict the 97%.

In some ways you are as blinkered as the Thais by your socialist programming.

 

Technology isn't the problem.

Primitive tribesmen with matches are the problem.

The pollution from burning is usually just for a few days/weeks per year , the pollution from cars is everyday .

   Both the burning and car pollution needs to be concentrated on 

[Lacessit]

5 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

But in Northern Thailand vehicles aren't the problem, it's the farmers burning fields, and hilltribes burning forests.

Concentrating your forces on 3% of the problem is madness, if you can't restrict the 97%.

In some ways you are as blinkered as the Thais by your socialist programming.

 

Technology isn't the problem.

Primitive tribesmen with matches are the problem.

IMHO the only way to stop the burning is to jail or heavily fine the poo yais of each village where burning happens. They will pass their pain down the line.