Whats the business model for your average 'GoGo bar' in Thailand?

[1FinickyOne]

16 hours ago, ghworker2010 said:

I personally don't know how some of these places make money

Really? 

[NCC1701A]

4 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

Thai law addresses bar fines?        

 

What next?

the girl is not longer employed by the bar during the period she is gone.

whatever illegal activity that happens cannot come back on the bar owner.  

[ThaiBunny]

Just now, NCC1701A said:

the girl is not longer employed by the bar during the period she is gone.

whatever illegal activity that happens cannot come back on the bar owner.  

Yes, the bar's OH&S insurance policy doesn't cover her ????????

[Krataiboy]

Whats the business model for your average 'GoGo bar' in Thailand?

 

36-24-36.

[Spidey]

10 hours ago, bomber said:

the majority of bars in pattaya either loose of barely make any money,just look at the state of the the idiots who have a bash at it,the thai land lords just luv a mug and there is non stop production from the line's,usually from the UK

Of the gogo bars that I've visited in Pattaya, can't think of one that is owned by a Brit. A couple owned by Americans, several by French, a couple owned by Russians and several by RTP. True about landlords though.

 

The gogo bars make money from drinks/ladydrinks and ridiculous barfines.

[marcusarelus]

15 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Of the gogo bars that I've visited in Pattaya, can't think of one that is owned by a Brit. A couple owned by Americans, several by French, a couple owned by Russians and several by RTP. True about landlords though.

 

The gogo bars make money from drinks/ladydrinks and ridiculous barfines.

Last time I was in Soi LK Metro there were a number.  Remember that father and son team?  I don't want to say since it's been a while since I was there but last time there were at least 4 in that area 5 or 6 if you include Soi Honey.  The guy with the wooden leg? 

[Spidey]

17 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Last time I was in Soi LK Metro there were a number.  Remember that father and son team?  I don't want to say since it's been a while since I was there but last time there were at least 4 in that area 5 or 6 if you include Soi Honey.  The guy with the wooden leg? 

I can remember one in LK Metro. The Office.  Sold up after he was threatened with a gun by <name removed to protect the innocent> over rent rises (Leng Kee family who own all of LK Metro -hence the name). No gogo bars in Soi Honey.

 

Also people often mistake managers for owners. Several British managers who are popular with owners for their ability to pull in/keep the punters. Can't think of any British owners.

Edited May 2, 2019 by blackcab
Name edited out

[Justgrazing]

1 hour ago, bluesofa said:

I have no problem people describing me as a pimp

'Sof pimping it up back in the day .. 

 

[bluesofa]

21 minutes ago, Justgrazing said:

'Sof pimping it up back in the day .. 

 

Ha ha ha! How long to find that photo!

[Justgrazing]

3 minutes ago, bluesofa said:

Ha ha ha! How long to find that photo!

About a bloody hour and trawling thru' 00's of 'em .. Hahahaha .. 

[khunPer]

18 hours ago, ghworker2010 said:

I personally don't know how some of these places make money.

To my knowledge the dancers (mainly girls, but there might be other gender-varieties) are paid a fixed monthly salary. It was around 7,000 baht a month a decade ago – from when my information originates, so amounts might have changed – based on performane, which mean that if the dancers didn't meet a certain level of income for the venue, they were cut in monthly salary. However if they exceeded their target, they would get a higher salary.

 

The minimum performance was set by a certain number of so-called "lady-drinks", or a certain number of bar-fines, or a combination of both. If no lady-drinks, and no bar-fines, the monthly payout would be half, if not close to zero. The lady-drink, which could be a small glass of coke, would be charged the customer with for example 120 baht to 150 bath, and the dancer would receive 30 baht to 50 bath in commission. A typical bar-fine would be in the level of 700 baht, and the dancer would receive 100 baht to 200 baht in commission. The dancers – more or less – earned their own salary.

 

Then you can begin to calculate the business model. If the dancers don't make an income, most of them, if not all, would disappear, so if you see more dancers than customers, it might still be a business; even a good business, some venues has two shifts, with one meeting late. Presumably, if one walks into a venue with less dancers than audience, one would walk out again, as one's odds for a "price" in the game would be too low; we might not all be that "handsum"...????

 

Some beer bars works with a similar kind of model, where the staff is paid a small basic salary – some places give a choice between salary, or a place to sleep with one free daily meal, or two; or just a place to sleep with a free daily meal or two – which could be around 3,500 baht a month. On top comes a commission of for example 30 baht for each drink over a certain value, she is offered by a customer; that's why the girls never drink anything cheap like a soda, but prefers a Heineken, or Spy, or shot, or... Furthermore, there is a commission of typically 100 baht if a guest decide to compensate the beer bar, for inviting a host to have a "day off" (or "night off"). Some popular girls can actually make a good monthly pay by just being good hosts in the bar drinking together with the guests, and never – or almost never – having a day or night off. On top comes shared tips from the "tips box", and eventually personal tips direct from customer to host.

 

Hard working both dancers, and staff from a beer bar, can make around 70,000 baht, or more, a month – what the employees do in their free time is none of the employer's business – so the business models seem to work for them; presumable also for many an owner of the entertainment establishments, even some for whatever reason fail. But there are always some that fail, even with normally well working business models...

 

I don't know the rent for a go-go bar, but a fair sized beer bar, not small, in the right location – and its just like in real estate, location-location-location that matters – would pay 1 million baht, or up, a year, often on 3-year prepaid contracts. That's around 8,000 baht a day in rent, plus other costs like electricity and water, and the basic staff like cashier and security, so around 10,000 baht a day in running costs. So if there are 40 dancers, or beer bar hosts, and half, or little more, are on temporary leave – the bar owner don't want all out before closing time, as the venue is otherwise empty, and only few, if any, customers might walk inside for a drink – and if no employee has left the establishment for an "day off" without consuming a drink, or preferable not less than two, with a customer, you can begin to calculate. Add those guests that just peak inside, buy a drink or two, and leave again.

 

Some folks can make good money with an entertainment business model, both owners and staff...????

[marcusarelus]

17 hours ago, Spidey said:

I can remember one in LK Metro. The Office.  Sold up after he was threatened with a gun by <name removed to protect the innocent> over rent rises (Leng Kee family who own all of LK Metro -hence the name). No gogo bars in Soi Honey.

 

Also people often mistake managers for owners. Several British managers who are popular with owners for their ability to pull in/keep the punters. Can't think of any British owners.

LK Metro, Paradise I think was the name.  Brit father and then son took over and they also had a Brit manager and free cottage pie on Sundays.  Sorry I thought you meant bars with hookers and there were a bunch on Soi Honey I remember the one British guy with the wooden leg (He was offered 25 million baht for his 15 seater).  The Frenchman sold Eden on LK Metro to someone don't remember if it was a Brit they had a good business model but I really can't discuss it.  Ask Stickman I'm sure he keeps track of the Brits owning Go go's

[Ulic]

As the saying goes. To make a small fortune in the Go-Go business, start with a large one. I am left scratching my head as a circle through the bars and Go-Gos. a few busy nights but many more quiet nights.

[Baerboxer]

16 hours ago, bomber said:

the majority of bars in pattaya either loose of barely make any money,just look at the state of the the idiots who have a bash at it,the thai land lords just luv a mug and there is non stop production from the line's,usually from the UK

 

Do you have facts to support your assertion that most foreign GoGo bar owners are from the UK?

 

Or did it just come to you in a flash of genius?

[Pilotman]

as they say about the airline industry, so same for bars and gogo's in Thailand

"if you want to make a small fortune running a bar, start off with a large one".   

 

Seems to me to be a great way to burn money and get into all kinds of issues you don't understand and can't control. 

[Pilotman]

14 minutes ago, Ulic said:

As the saying goes. To make a small fortune in the Go-Go business, start with a large one. I am left scratching my head as a circle through the bars and Go-Gos. a few busy nights but many more quiet nights.

didn't see this before I posting my comment, but quite right. 

[Spidey]

3 hours ago, khunPer said:

To my knowledge the dancers (mainly girls, but there might be other gender-varieties) are paid a fixed monthly salary. It was around 7,000 baht a month a decade ago – from when my information originates, so amounts might have changed – based on performane, which mean that if the dancers didn't meet a certain level of income for the venue, they were cut in monthly salary. However if they exceeded their target, they would get a higher salary.

 

The minimum performance was set by a certain number of so-called "lady-drinks", or a certain number of bar-fines, or a combination of both. If no lady-drinks, and no bar-fines, the monthly payout would be half, if not close to zero. The lady-drink, which could be a small glass of coke, would be charged the customer with for example 120 baht to 150 bath, and the dancer would receive 30 baht to 50 bath in commission. A typical bar-fine would be in the level of 700 baht, and the dancer would receive 100 baht to 200 baht in commission. The dancers – more or less – earned their own salary.

 

Then you can begin to calculate the business model. If the dancers don't make an income, most of them, if not all, would disappear, so if you see more dancers than customers, it might still be a business; even a good business, some venues has two shifts, with one meeting late. Presumably, if one walks into a venue with less dancers than audience, one would walk out again, as one's odds for a "price" in the game would be too low; we might not all be that "handsum"...????

 

Some beer bars works with a similar kind of model, where the staff is paid a small basic salary – some places give a choice between salary, or a place to sleep with one free daily meal, or two; or just a place to sleep with a free daily meal or two – which could be around 3,500 baht a month. On top comes a commission of for example 30 baht for each drink over a certain value, she is offered by a customer; that's why the girls never drink anything cheap like a soda, but prefers a Heineken, or Spy, or shot, or... Furthermore, there is a commission of typically 100 baht if a guest decide to compensate the beer bar, for inviting a host to have a "day off" (or "night off"). Some popular girls can actually make a good monthly pay by just being good hosts in the bar drinking together with the guests, and never – or almost never – having a day or night off. On top comes shared tips from the "tips box", and eventually personal tips direct from customer to host.

 

Hard working both dancers, and staff from a beer bar, can make around 70,000 baht, or more, a month – what the employees do in their free time is none of the employer's business – so the business models seem to work for them; presumable also for many an owner of the entertainment establishments, even some for whatever reason fail. But there are always some that fail, even with normally well working business models...

 

I don't know the rent for a go-go bar, but a fair sized beer bar, not small, in the right location – and its just like in real estate, location-location-location that matters – would pay 1 million baht, or up, a year, often on 3-year prepaid contracts. That's around 8,000 baht a day in rent, plus other costs like electricity and water, and the basic staff like cashier and security, so around 10,000 baht a day in running costs. So if there are 40 dancers, or beer bar hosts, and half, or little more, are on temporary leave – the bar owner don't want all out before closing time, as the venue is otherwise empty, and only few, if any, customers might walk inside for a drink – and if no employee has left the establishment for an "day off" without consuming a drink, or preferable not less than two, with a customer, you can begin to calculate. Add those guests that just peak inside, buy a drink or two, and leave again.

 

Some folks can make good money with an entertainment business model, both owners and staff...????

A good start but no cigar. Gogo bars and beer bars have completely different business models.

 

These days, the top gogo dancers are agency girls and earn a salary of 1k baht/day. Biggest earner for the gogo is ladydrinks although the can make decent money from barfines. I have seen 1500 baht barfines quoted for earlier in the evening. The better gogos are usually busy. Sapphire is regularly full, ie not seats available. Often has celebrities as customers.

 

Others are more down market for the quality of girls but are seriously hands on. Babydolls being one of the better ones. You can be munching on a kebab within a couple of minutes of sitting down, 100 baht tip for the service. Always busy.

 

Beer bars are quite different. Small number of staff who are paid a salary of 4k baht/month. Generally mingers. The majority of girls in beer bars are sie lie girls who get no salary but get a set fee for ladydrinks. Come and go as they please.All ladydrinks are the same price to the customer and the same cut to the girls. Soda or tequilla, the same. Any decent money the girls make is a result of private negotiations with the customer. Do get 50% of barfine normally, which is a modest 3-400 baht, although some bars in Pattaya are trying for 500. You know what Thais say, "If business is slow, put your prices up". Doubt that many beer bars make a serious profit.

[scubascuba3]

Laundry services.

Yes, some seem to have few customers but keep going year after year

[bomber]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Do you have facts to support your assertion that most foreign GoGo bar owners are from the UK?

 

Or did it just come to you in a flash of genius?

Do you have the facts that state otherwise...anyway i stated bars not go go bars,a big difference as you will probably agree.good luck if your thinking about or already have a bar your going to need it

[brewsterbudgen]

 
Thai law addresses bar fines?        
 
What next?

Indeed it does. The Entertainment Places Act also stipulates that gogo dancers and soapie massage providers must wear numbers.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[OneEyedPie]

33 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Indeed it does. The Entertainment Places Act also stipulates that gogo dancers and soapie massage providers must wear numbers.

Hopefully not tattooed on their wrists?

[dddave]

On 5/2/2019 at 11:23 AM, gamini said:

a better word for bar fine is "pimping fees' which goes to the farang pimps who own the bars

Many years ago, I went half-in on a Nana Plaza bar. I got out of it after 6 months for many reasons but a major one was facing up to the fact that making money from bar-fines was indeed pimping and I did not want to add that to my resume. That, and also having to have endless, pointless conversations with drunks every night.

 

On another forum recently, a Pattaya Soi-6 bar manager wrote a very interesting post on what his day as a bar manager was like.   One interesting point he made that I hadn't thought about before is that the most important employee of most bars is not the Mama-san, rather, it's the cashier.

The cashier controls the cash flow in and out. If she's good, she'll spot bartenders bottle scams, Mama-san bar fine scams and the dozens of other ways bars can leak money.  She's the one who keeps track of which girls are working and which are bar fined out. All money goes through her.  If she's good, she'll help you run a successful bar. If she's not good or grabbing for herself, she'll bleed you dry before you know it.  Most bar managers and even some "front" owners have no say over who the cashier is.  Whoever is the real bankroll behind the bar usually puts someone loyal only to them into the money pit. 

 

One other surprise in Nana Plaza.  When I got to look at the books, I didn't see any entry's that looked like they covered "gratuities" to whoever needed to be greased to stay in business.  To my surprise, that was because aside from about B1200 a month and free coffee anytime to the local cop who made the rounds once a night, there were none. No local pols or other powers that be were going around with their hand out. I do't know if this is still true but I was indeed shocked. Maybe all that was covered by the landlords that control the property but the fact that it didn't trickle down to individual bars was very strange.

[Pilotman]

9 minutes ago, dddave said:

Many years ago, I went half-in on a Nana Plaza bar. I got out of it after 6 months for many reasons but a major one was facing up to the fact that making money from bar-fines was indeed pimping and I did not want to add that to my resume. That, and also having to have endless, pointless conversations with drunks every night.

 

On another forum recently, a Pattaya Soi-6 bar manager wrote a very interesting post on what his day as a bar manager was like.   One interesting point he made that I hadn't thought about before is that the most important employee of most bars is not the Mama-san, rather, it's the cashier.

The cashier controls the cash flow in and out. If she's good, she'll spot bartenders bottle scams, Mama-san bar fine scams and the dozens of other ways bars can leak money.  She's the one who keeps track of which girls are working and which are bar fined out. All money goes through her.  If she's good, she'll help you run a successful bar. If she's not good or grabbing for herself, she'll bleed you dry before you know it.  Most bar managers and even some "front" owners have no say over who the cashier is.  Whoever is the real bankroll behind the bar usually puts someone loyal only to them into the money pit. 

 

One other surprise in Nana Plaza.  When I got to look at the books, I didn't see any entry's that looked like they covered "gratuities" to whoever needed to be greased to stay in business.  To my surprise, that was because aside from about B1200 a month and free coffee anytime to the local cop who made the rounds once a night, there were none. No local pols or other powers that be were going around with their hand out. I do't know if this is still true but I was indeed shocked. Maybe all that was covered by the landlords that control the property but the fact that it didn't trickle down to individual bars was very strange.

Interesting points.  Friend of mine did much as you did in Patpong many years ago and his biggest issue by far was dealing with the emotional turmoil, in=fighting, drunkenness, drug taking and break down of the bar girls, drove him crazy.