Trial date set for Elon Musk's 'pedo guy' tweet

[chang1]

14 hours ago, car720 said:

One of the best comments ever!

I could come out and say many things about both parties but they won't go for me because I haven't got a cent to my name.  In my time if you got into a scrap with someone you would have it out and the best man would win and then pick up the other guy and buy him a beer.

First - anything you say is insignificant compared to something said by Musk. If you called me a pedo I would not like it but it is hardly going to affect me in anyway as everyone will ignore you. If you backed it up with evidence (either false or true) then it may get more attention and deserve some action.

If Musk publicly called me a pedo it would instantly be world news and require me to take action to clear my name, get compensation and punish him - none of which is possible in a fist fight.

Second - "best man would win" your definition of best must have come from the stone age. Far better that the correct man wins.

[atyclb]

5 hours ago, Cadbury said:

Musk was about as useless as PM Prayut who raided the place with his army of media people and claimed he was a big help. Musk is in deep, deep poo financially. His company is 10 billion in debt. That's why Unsworth is only going for $75,000. A little is better than nothing.

 

please tell me you were just kidding in saying the unsworth rationale for only asking 75k  is musk 1o billion company debt 

[atyclb]

1 hour ago, nchuckle said:

14 hours ago, car720 said:

One of the best comments ever!

I could come out and say many things about both parties but they won't go for me because I haven't got a cent to my name.  In my time if you got into a scrap with someone you would have it out and the best man would win and then pick up the other guy and buy him a beer.

You then set the bar very low in your admiration of comments. And you clearly have no understanding of the difference between simply being rude to someone and making written high profile  public allegations to an audience of millions accusing that someone of being one of the most heinous criminals (a paedophile) that it is possible to be. 

Musk will be on the hook for very large punitive damages and will settle out of court in a case he cannot win.

 

cool analysis and outcome.

 

since you head the tvf law review please have a look at the unsworth vs musk complaint and get back to us.  thanks

 

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4895828-2018-09-17-Complaint-for-Defamation-Stamped.html

[atyclb]

1 hour ago, chang1 said:

What if Musk called you a pedo guy, would that also be acceptable to you? Or if Vern had called Musk a pedo, should and would Musk have just ignored it?

If Musk had brought something useful to the cave I doubt it would have been rejected by the rescuers. We have not got much information on what led up to Verns comment. I would expect that Musks offer of help would have been welcomed even if it was not needed but from what I have seen of how Musk operates, I suspect he wanted to take a leading role and quickly start to interfere with the teams plans that they were well versed in. In this kind of high stress situation, Vern could easily have lost his patients and said what he did. 

On the other hand, Musk had time to think about his response. Part of that time would have been used to consider the consequences of what comments he made public.

Musks comment was way out of line and far more damaging so he deserves to be punished.

Musk may be arrogant but he is no fool so I doubt he will want to waste time on this and just settle as quick as he can to limit any further damage to himself.

Looking at the video in a previous post I don't think that rescue capsule (it's not what I would call a submarine) would even squeeze through the narrow parts of the cave without any fast flowing water to contend with.

Musk can get some fantastic things to happen but Vern and his team are amongst the best in the world when it comes to cave rescues so deserve respect from everyone for what they were doing and achieved. They were helped by many people yet only had issues with Musk - why?

 

 

the whole thing is the techno age equivalent to a bar room spat. lets face it thailand does have quite a bit of infamy and world reputation for the sex business, trafficking and yes, also known to attract pedo's and locals that are involved in procurement.

 

so if musk was pissed at the stick a metal tube up his xxx that was made on cnn, countering with another vulgarity isn't that harsh.

 

if unsworth called musk a pedo i doubt he'd take any action since he's got bigger fish to fry.  if someone called me that it would enter one ear and exit the other because i too have bigger fish to fry. call me insensitive.  relatively speaking what gets me really upset are all the ripoff taxis refusing to use meter and/or quoting an outrageous fare.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 11, 2019 by atyclb

[Kieran00001]

8 hours ago, atyclb said:

 

 

the whole thing is the techno age equivalent to a bar room spat. lets face it thailand does have quite a bit of infamy and world reputation for the sex business, trafficking and yes, also known to attract pedo's and locals that are involved in procurement.

 

so if musk was pissed at the stick a metal tube up his xxx that was made on cnn, countering with another vulgarity isn't that harsh.

 

if unsworth called musk a pedo i doubt he'd take any action since he's got bigger fish to fry.  if someone called me that it would enter one ear and exit the other because i too have bigger fish to fry. call me insensitive.  relatively speaking what gets me really upset are all the ripoff taxis refusing to use meter and/or quoting an outrageous fare.

 

A taxi fare, such big fish you have to fry.

[GroveHillWanderer]

I know some people have already mentioned this but it seems to have escaped most contributors' attention that the initial tweet from Musk calling Unsworth 'pedo guy' is not the main nor the most serious defamatory statement made by Musk. It is also not the primary basis for the defamation lawsuit.

 

More serious - and more actionable from a legal standpoint, are the accusations from Musk that Unsworth is a child rapist and that he moved to Chiang Rai in order to marry a 12 year-old girl after traveling to or living in Thailand for 30 or 40 years, mostly in Pattaya. According to court papers submitted by Unsworth's lawyers, all of these claims are categorically and provably false. For instance, Unsworth had never visited Thailand before he met his now 40 year-old Thai girlfriend in England around 7 years ago and has never visited Pattaya (again, based on sworn statements by his lawyers).

 

It is these detailed and highly defamatory statements that are now at the heart of the matter, rather than the 'pedo guy' tweet.

 

As for spending a considerable amount of time in Thailand, I suppose it depends exactly how you define that but since he met his girlfriend and started visiting Thailand, Unsworth has continued to spend at least half his time in England so he may have spent as little as 3 1/2 years in Thailand to date.

 

Also, there is no real equivalence, either in moral terms or more importantly in legal terms between a relatively common but admittedly rude saying meaning, "I think your submarine idea is worthless," from Unsworth, and a series of seriously libellous and legally actionable statements from Musk.

[Isaanbiker]

    A phone call should have settled this stupid dispute between two adults.

 

     Now it's only about money, not honor. As usual. 

[billd766]

12 hours ago, Hank Gunn said:

So you're saying, because his value to the rescue efforts were greater than Musk's, he's a hero. Hmm. Interesting logic there.

Without Unsworth's specific knowledge there would probably have been something like a Chinese fire drill with nobody having much idea what to do or where to do it and little co-ordination either.

 

He was there from the earliest days with his personal knowledge of the caves and his contacts with cave rescue teams. He wasn't in it for the money or the publicity, unlike Musk who shouted how good both he and his submarine were going to be. The same as he touted his drilling equipment.

 

Neither were ever used and his submarine was made of unused bit of spaceships and whatever was handy at the time. His submarine was rigid and not flexible and from the tests I saw it was only tested in a swimming pool about 1 metre deep and no real obstacles. It could never have worked in the caves, but it may be of use in tunnels perhaps 1 1/2 metres in diameter provided that there are no obstacles, sharp bends or vertical lifting involved.

[metisdead]

Some troll posts and the replies have been removed. 

[Basil B]

On 5/11/2019 at 12:48 AM, helpisgood said:

The plaintiff, the British diver, is asking for 75,000 USD, which I am sure is very affordable for Musk.  It's not clear to me what kind of punitive damages the diver seeks and what limits, if any, federal courts permit in such cases.  So, that and who pays the attorney fees may be the wildcard for any settlement.

I doubt he has no problem paying the $75K, even legal fees for both sides without batting an eyelid, punitive damages is a undefined amount beyond the actual measurable damages to the plaintiff, more as a fine to fit the crime, so yes that could be a $Billion or more if based on the defendant's ability to pay. 

 

Personally punitive damages should be treated as a fine and go to the treasury of the state not the plaintiff.  

 

IMHO given that he has implied that all male visitors to LOS are only after one thing he should be blacklisted from the Kingdom for life.

[Chongalulu]

22 minutes ago, car720 said:

exactly what I have said.  They should both have thicker skin.

Your previously stated equivalence/ support for likening the incident to that  of a "harmless "bar room brawl is from the age of Queer bashing, wife beating (just a domestic),belting the kids, football hooliganism and racial discrimination. All those on the receiving end should have "thicker skin "too in your book I suppose?

A bar room brawl now rightly ends up with an assault charge or GBH ,by the way.

[atyclb]

3 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

12 hours ago, atyclb said:

 

 

the whole thing is the techno age equivalent to a bar room spat. lets face it thailand does have quite a bit of infamy and world reputation for the sex business, trafficking and yes, also known to attract pedo's and locals that are involved in procurement.

 

so if musk was pissed at the stick a metal tube up his xxx that was made on cnn, countering with another vulgarity isn't that harsh.

 

if unsworth called musk a pedo i doubt he'd take any action since he's got bigger fish to fry.  if someone called me that it would enter one ear and exit the other because i too have bigger fish to fry. call me insensitive.  relatively speaking what gets me really upset are all the ripoff taxis refusing to use meter and/or quoting an outrageous fare.

 

A taxi fare, such big fish you have to fry.

 

lol... true.  when tired and want to get home it is a bigger fish to fry than a spat produced internet comment

 

sticks and stones may break my bones but words .....

[atyclb]

2 hours ago, Isaanbiker said:

    A phone call should have settled this stupid dispute between two adults.

 

     Now it's only about money, not honor. As usual. 

 

the legal complaint against musk goes into detail about his companies and net worth yet i do not recall any mention about unsworths net worth.

[sanemax]

5 minutes ago, atyclb said:

 

the legal complaint against musk goes into detail about his companies and net worth yet i do not recall any mention about unsworths net worth.

That because Unsworth isnt getting sued and thus his net worth is irrelevant 

[KneeDeep]

13 hours ago, atyclb said:

 

 

the whole thing is the techno age equivalent to a bar room spat. lets face it thailand does have quite a bit of infamy and world reputation for the sex business, trafficking and yes, also known to attract pedo's and locals that are involved in procurement.

 

so if musk was pissed at the stick a metal tube up his xxx that was made on cnn, countering with another vulgarity isn't that harsh.

 

if unsworth called musk a pedo i doubt he'd take any action since he's got bigger fish to fry.  if someone called me that it would enter one ear and exit the other because i too have bigger fish to fry. call me insensitive.  relatively speaking what gets me really upset are all the ripoff taxis refusing to use meter and/or quoting an outrageous fare.

 

 

 

 

 

Your analysis looks as if it were written by a five year old child and it would still get an E...if only for the effort. Such utter nonsense. 

Wasn't just pedo, he tried to suggest that he was a "child rapist". 

 

"Bar room spat" in front of millions of people, of whom many would assume that Musk knew something they did not. Like many of the sycophants desperately trying to equate a rude rebuff with libel; 

LAW

a published false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation; a written defamation.

 

 

 

Even a child should understand the difference. It seems beyond a select few here.

Edited May 12, 2019 by KneeDeep

[sanemax]

12 minutes ago, atyclb said:

 

 

sticks and stones may break my bones but words .....

They are not just "words"though, are they .

There are serious allegations behind those words .

pedos often get physically attacked and sometimes killed 

Those "words" could end up "breaking his bones"

[atyclb]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

They are not just "words"though, are they .

There are serious allegations behind those words .

pedos often get physically attacked and sometimes killed 

Those "words" could end up "breaking his bones"

 

too much drama

Edited May 12, 2019 by atyclb

[atyclb]

1 hour ago, KneeDeep said:

14 hours ago, atyclb said:

 

 

the whole thing is the techno age equivalent to a bar room spat. lets face it thailand does have quite a bit of infamy and world reputation for the sex business, trafficking and yes, also known to attract pedo's and locals that are involved in procurement.

 

so if musk was pissed at the stick a metal tube up his xxx that was made on cnn, countering with another vulgarity isn't that harsh.

 

if unsworth called musk a pedo i doubt he'd take any action since he's got bigger fish to fry.  if someone called me that it would enter one ear and exit the other because i too have bigger fish to fry. call me insensitive.  relatively speaking what gets me really upset are all the ripoff taxis refusing to use meter and/or quoting an outrageous fare.

 

 

 

 

 

Your analysis looks as if it were written by a five year old child and it would still get an E...if only for the effort. Such utter nonsense. 

Wasn't just pedo, he tried to suggest that he was a "child rapist". 

 

"Bar room spat" in front of millions of people, of whom many would assume that Musk knew something they did not. Like many of the sycophants desperately trying to equate a rude rebuff with libel; 

 

all is subjective since there is at least 1 participant that agrees with my pediatric analysis and left a trophy comment.

 

your effort to insult me with the 5 year old comment . =  yawn

 

be careful what you wish for

 

Gus Dorman, 5-Year-Old Boy Genius, Inducted Into Mensa

 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/gus-dorman-mensa-5-year-old-genius_n_3166021?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAD0xW3tA7rxlMZ--YC-mdkeohWqxvypsGKzJLKvW9dqggrX3pEuek4HEfPIfO977uJiXHCuHh_PKjYbdGnMjuWvPt1opy82JTMNJxkBc_80rQ80YB6jsqBlhRyXEWzET5xMNDFuMh23Od6nze0OYjMeyG6ujg6ZgBkFNGbDPhprF

 

[Wilsonandson]

2 hours ago, KneeDeep said:

 

Your analysis looks as if it were written by a five year old child and it would still get an E...if only for the effort. Such utter nonsense. 

Wasn't just pedo, he tried to suggest that he was a "child rapist". 

 

"Bar room spat" in front of millions of people, of whom many would assume that Musk knew something they did not. Like many of the sycophants desperately trying to equate a rude rebuff with libel; 

LAW

a published false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation; a written defamation.

 

 

 

Even a child should understand the difference. It seems beyond a select few here.

 

[GroveHillWanderer]

4 hours ago, car720 said:

that it solicited the response from Musk which, while over the top, could be said leads to cause.

Again, missing the point. The comments from Unsworth led to the "pedo guy" tweet which although insulting, would probably not be a strong enough basis for a defamation lawsuit.

 

The child rapist claim and the totally untrue, detailed allegations included with it that are the main points in the legal argument made by Unsworth's lawyers were not in response to anything Unsworth said, they were a by-product of Musk's apparently uncontrolled rage at a BuzzFeed reporter who had done nothing more provocative than to ask Musk to respond to the threats to sue that had been issued by Unsworth's lawyers.

[pacovl46]

On 5/11/2019 at 10:33 AM, sanemax said:

That was more deceptiveness from Musk .

Verns Lawyers had already began legal proceedings a month BEFORE Musk made that public statement . 

  Verns Lawyers sent Musks Lawyers notice of legal proceedings , Musk then went public "asking" Vern to sue him .

    Musk was deceiving people into thinking that he asked to be sued , when the reality was that legal action had already been taken 

Interesting! Why would he do that? I mean what difference does it make?

[pacovl46]

On 5/11/2019 at 3:34 AM, scorecard said:

What significance does that have? How could that impact the trial or the result of the trial?

Who said anything about it having an impact on the trial or the result of the trial? 

 

“Be careful what you wish for” speaks for itself.

[billd766]

3 hours ago, atyclb said:

 

lol... true.  when tired and want to get home it is a bigger fish to fry than a spat produced internet comment

 

sticks and stones may break my bones but words .....

sticks and stones may break my bones but words .....

 

Can condemn you for life.

[atyclb]

32 minutes ago, billd766 said:

4 hours ago, atyclb said:

 

lol... true.  when tired and want to get home it is a bigger fish to fry than a spat produced internet comment

 

sticks and stones may break my bones but words .....

sticks and stones may break my bones but words .....

 

Can condemn you for life.

 

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, pacovl46 said:

Interesting! Why would he do that? I mean what difference does it make?

Made is sound like Musk wanted Vern to sue him , Musk was saying to Vern *Take me to Court and I will prove that I'm right , come on then, do it*

  Musk was bluffing , pretending he had some evidence , trying to scare Vern into NOT taking legal action 

[DJ54]

Musk was wrong but we must also consider he was provoked with

the stick it up your b—t 

[chang1]

On 5/12/2019 at 1:28 AM, atyclb said:

 

 

the whole thing is the techno age equivalent to a bar room spat. lets face it thailand does have quite a bit of infamy and world reputation for the sex business, trafficking and yes, also known to attract pedo's and locals that are involved in procurement.

 

so if musk was pissed at the stick a metal tube up his xxx that was made on cnn, countering with another vulgarity isn't that harsh.

 

if unsworth called musk a pedo i doubt he'd take any action since he's got bigger fish to fry.  if someone called me that it would enter one ear and exit the other because i too have bigger fish to fry. call me insensitive.  relatively speaking what gets me really upset are all the ripoff taxis refusing to use meter and/or quoting an outrageous fare.

 

 

 

 

"if unsworth called musk a pedo i doubt he'd take any action since he's got bigger fish to fry"

If it became world news and people started digging into his background and private life, I would expect he would take legal action to protect his image as to ignore it could be taken as a sign that there was some truth in the comment. Tesla is partly built on the cult of Musk. If brand Musk became tarnished Tesla could loose millions in lost sales. How much did that joint cost?

 

"countering with another vulgarity isn't that harsh."

It was not a "vulgarity", it was specific unproven accusations that are highly damaging. You also are ignoring the massive power balance between these two. If Vern had made the same accusations they would probably have been insignificant and not gone any further unless Musk responded. Musks comments are seen by millions around the world, Vern would never have been able to get away from it being brought up for the rest of his life. So if he made no attempt to publicly disprove what Musk said it would reinforce peoples thoughts that there is no smoke without fire.

"if someone called me that it would enter one ear and exit the other" unlike the odd taxi rip off now and then, if it was said publicly by someone like Musk, you could be affected negatively every day. Then friends and family start saying why doesn't he try to fight this - has he got something to hide? 

It would never have ended with just Musks comment, it will hound him until he fights back. Even if Vern loses, he will gain respect for having his life scrutinized and showing that Musk is just a bully (assuming Vern is squeaky clean).

I also can ignore comments from ordinary people but not from someone with Musks power.

Edited May 12, 2019 by chang1

[atyclb]

32 minutes ago, chang1 said:

"if unsworth called musk a pedo i doubt he'd take any action since he's got bigger fish to fry"

If it became world news and people started digging into his background and private life, I would expect he would take legal action to protect his image as to ignore it could be taken as a sign that there was some truth in the comment. Tesla is partly built on the cult of Musk. If brand Musk became tarnished Tesla could loose millions in lost sales. How much did that joint cost?

 

"countering with another vulgarity isn't that harsh."

It was not a "vulgarity", it was specific unproven accusations that are highly damaging. You also are ignoring the massive power balance between these two. If Vern had made the same accusations they would probably have been insignificant and not gone any further unless Musk responded. Musks comments are seen by millions around the world, Vern would never have been able to get away from it being brought up for the rest of his life. So if he made no attempt to publicly disprove what Musk said it would reinforce peoples thoughts that there is no smoke without fire.

"if someone called me that it would enter one ear and exit the other" unlike the odd taxi rip off now and then, if it was said publicly by someone like Musk, you could be affected negatively every day. Then friends and family start saying why doesn't he try to fight this - has he got something to hide? 

It would never have ended with just Musks comment, it will hound him until he fights back. Even if Vern loses, he will gain respect for having his life scrutinized and showing that Musk is just a bully (assuming Vern is squeaky clean).

I also can ignore comments from ordinary people but not from someone with Musks power.

 

 

if it were me and if i were being affected negatively every day i would get some paid or unpaid tv appearances to easily clarify things and/or go on a speaking tour that would likely be more profitable than 75k unsworth is seeking. did unsworth get fired or lose money as a result? not likely at this point in his life. he and musk were both there with the common goal of helping the cave boys get out. team effort can say. there was zero need to remark on cnn with the submarine anal stuff though it may have made him feel empowered to say it.

 

it seems those negatively affected(at least emotionally) by the musk comments largely reside on this forum.

[atyclb]

4 hours ago, DJ54 said:

Musk was wrong but we must also consider he was provoked with

the stick it up your b—t 

they were both wrong and one initiated it

[Andrew65]

On 5/11/2019 at 5:33 AM, Kieran00001 said:

 

You've got to wonder what is with some peoples obsession with pointing out that you're not a pedo according to the dictionary if the child you are attracted to has started puberty.

 

Anyway, do you mean the definition found in the dictionary or do you mean the accepted legal definition? 

 

They are quite different, the former may exhonerate in your mind, but its the latter that counts, and that definition just says children, legally it means attraction to the underage.

Many years ago people put the same thing around about me, it almost certainly went a long way towards me losing my job.

 

No doubt the guilty parties would say that it was "just banter".