Elite cements its rule

[thaiguzzi]

Opinion pieces like this in an English language Thai newspaper, i just hope are equally as damning and outspoken in the Thai dailies.

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And why did the 2014 coup happen?

If Thaksin and his little sister would have worked for all Thais and Thailand that would not have happened.

Democratically elected? Yes. Criminals? Yes!

The courts should never have allowed Thaksin's "honest mistakes" then we would not have had two decades with this criminal and his minions.

The coups happened for a reason. People gave flowers to the soldiers for a reason. Decent people don't want to be ruled by criminal corrupt politicians. And if a coup if the only way to get rid of the criminals then that's it.

Don't confuse cause and effect!

Jeez.

Those Red Shirts really did upset your day back then did'nt they?

Missed a few days off work?

Scratched the car door?

Ah, diddy dums.

What a selfish and blinkered man you are.

Read some books in your spare time.

The books you can't buy in Asia Books.

This country has had worse, a whole lot worse than Thaksin in the last 80 odd years, and remember this, he was THE FIRST politician to give the ordinary man in the street a voice. A voice they never had before.

Does'nt matter how bent he was.

Corruption existed before and since.

He was just the new money which upset the old money.

And he did'nt want to play by the old money's rules.

I guarantee you, this country would have moved a whole lot further forward in the last 10-15 years if he'd been allowed

to continue to govern. Way way ahead.

 

I have never understood how a western educated Expat could remotely stick up for the Junta or what the Yellow Shirts represent.

Never.

Never.

 

[thaiguzzi]

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Decent people don't want to be ruled by criminal corrupt politicians.

Decent people don't want to be ruled by even more criminal, even more corrupt generals.

[geoffbezoz]

4 hours ago, Thailand said:

I wonder what they will call article 44 now? But they still have the democratic guns so I suppose that is enough.

Article 88.  Same as 44 in principal but twice as evil.

[Ulic]

5 hours ago, donnacha said:

This crudely orchestrated fix has condemned Thailand to at least a decade of kleptocracy, dumb decisions, economic catastrophe and the wholesale sell-off of the country to the only player willing to buy with no questions asked: China.

Since the election, the drop-off in spending by regular Thais has been clear. People are worried. Most had assumed that some measure of economic competence would be re-introduced now that the nation's happiness has been restored.

I predict, as the economy slumps, we will see some wildly populist policies launched for distraction purposes. The target could be alcohol, or the Internet, or Burmese immigrants, or it could very well be Westerners, especially the trashy ones who inexplicably fail to stay in five-star hotels for a week and then fly back to Farangland. They no good.

Strap in, it's going to get bumpy.

 

So, basically, you are saying nothing has changed in the last 30 years.

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, thaiguzzi said:

Opinion pieces like this in an English language Thai newspaper, i just hope are equally as damning and outspoken in the Thai dailies.

Jeez.

Those Red Shirts really did upset your day back then did'nt they?

Missed a few days off work?

Scratched the car door?

Ah, diddy dums.

What a selfish and blinkered man you are.

Read some books in your spare time.

The books you can't buy in Asia Books.

This country has had worse, a whole lot worse than Thaksin in the last 80 odd years, and remember this, he was THE FIRST politician to give the ordinary man in the street a voice. A voice they never had before.

Does'nt matter how bent he was.

Corruption existed before and since.

He was just the new money which upset the old money.

And he did'nt want to play by the old money's rules.

I guarantee you, this country would have moved a whole lot further forward in the last 10-15 years if he'd been allowed

to continue to govern. Way way ahead.

 

I have never understood how a western educated Expat could remotely stick up for the Junta or what the Yellow Shirts represent.

Never.

Never.

 

 

If you believe Thaksin and his corrupt family were in it for "democracy, the good of the people, or the country" then you are naive at best.

 

He was an opportunistic chancer who threw crumbs to the masses and succeeded in manipulating them. But what real major reforms did he or his puppets introduce to benefit the people? Massive changes in education, wealth distribution, labor relations? Nope. It was all about the trough. He wanted control and to cement his family in full control politically, as his mate Hun Sen has done, and has his heroes the Lees did.

 

All the coups have been, and will be, about the in-fighting of the top hiso elites and their various factions.  That small % who control nearly all the wealth and power, supported by the patronage system. The fabulously wealthy play their games, but most remain fabulously wealthy - regardless of the effects on the vast majority who will never be in that strata.

 

It would make a good story line for a Shakespear style play. One of tragedies not comedies.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Baerboxer

[Srikcir]

50 minutes ago, geoffbezoz said:

Article 88.  Same as 44 in principal but twice as evil.

Humorous I understand but of course Article 88 in the 2017 Constitution relates to EC approving candidates to the House of Representatives. Albeit some might view any actions by this EC as "evil."

 

What may be "evil" though is the fact that until the new government is "installed," Prayut can invoke Article 44 of the Interim 2014 Charter to make unilateral constitutional changes to the 2017 Constitution so long as the changes are duly endorsed.

Thus, if Prayut should be "elected" as the new PM but not yet endorsed as part of the new government, he could invoke Article 44 to legally extend that privilege (for reason of national security?) during his new term as PM, to be revoked at some an appropriate time.

[Eric Loh]

2 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

If you believe Thaksin and his corrupt family were in it for "democracy, the good of the people, or the country" then you are naive at best.

Compare to this power seizing, self pardoning, power to intimidate and the abuse of article 44, yes Thaksin and his allies were in for democracy and the good of the people. Those who think otherwise are delusional, naive and living in denial. 

[OneMoreFarang]

4 hours ago, colinneil said:

So you are blaming the Shinawatra family for the coup.

Since 1932 when Thailand changed to a constitutional monarchy, how many coups have taken place?

18/19 I THINK, so Thaksins family have sod all to do with coups.

I am in Thailand since before Thaksin came to power. I was here when the coups happened. And it took time before they actually happened. Thaksin and his little sister had the opportunity to correct their criminal behavior before the coups. But they didn't.

 

Obvious there might be other reasons which also play a role why the coups happened. But for the last two coups the criminal Shinawatras were the main reason and the people on the streets were happy that finally the military stopped the criminals. I am sure the people would not have accepted the last coups without a good reason.

[thaiguzzi]

3 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

If you believe Thaksin and his corrupt family were in it for "democracy, the good of the people, or the country" then you are naive at best.

 

He was an opportunistic chancer who threw crumbs to the masses and succeeded in manipulating them. But what real major reforms did he or his puppets introduce to benefit the people? Massive changes in education, wealth distribution, labor relations? Nope. It was all about the trough. He wanted control and to cement his family in full control politically, as his mate Hun Sen has done, and has his heroes the Lees did.

 

All the coups have been, and will be, about the in-fighting of the top hiso elites and their various factions.  That small % who control nearly all the wealth and power, supported by the patronage system. 

 

It would make a good story line for a Shakespear style play. One of tragedies not comedies.

So this lot are cleaner and better then?

Waiting for you, the arch "But but but Thaksin" representative on this forum.

 

Again you only read what you want to read, which is typical of a "but but Thaksin" obsessive and Junta excuser, because your first paragraph confirms it.

I never said that.

 

So we'll compare 30 Baht Health Schemes, tarmacing & cementing all village inner roads from red dust, to ridding beaches of deck chairs then.

And 80 baht lottery tickets.

And Lamyai 3 twerks instead of 9.

Okey dokey. Real important issues then.

Oh i forgot, one of the big reasons of being ousted, finally getting rid of the outdated land paperwork system here, and letting all the peasants finally having a proper land deed title. Can't have that now can we.

Thanx for the insight.

[OneMoreFarang]

4 hours ago, Denim said:

People gave flowers to the soldiers because they were gullible and stupid. ( great selfie opportunity too )

If people do not want to be ruled by corrupt politicians you would think that they would probably not want to be ruled by an even more corrupt military.

A coup was not the only way to remove the elected government . The correct way is to persuade the populace to vote for someone else.

But for this to work opposition parties need to take in the needs of all the people not just city dwellers.

 

Still , its water under the bridge now and we can only hope the gullible idiots that supported the coup are satisfied to be ruled by a corrupt , criminal and unaccountable government dominated by a hand picked bunch of lackeys totally unqualified for the positions they have been given.

And what do you think about the people who vote for the criminal Shinawatras again and again?

Are they somehow smart that they expect that criminals will form a honest government and work for the people?

Or are they smart because the politicians bribe them and they are happy to receive a few hundred baht so that the politicians can make many millions. Yeah, smart...

Smart people don't vote for corrupt criminals. People who do that are gullible idiots or buffaloes, of whatever you want to call them.

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Because it was planned in 2009 right after Yingluck won the election. Only the imbeciles are still asking for the cause.

Now imagine Yingluck would have worked for the people. What then? Would the coup still have happened?

People accepted the Yingluck government at the beginning. Even people who didn't vote for her gave her a chance to show that she would work for the Thai people and not for her big brother.

But what did she do? About the first thing that happened was that criminal big brother got his passport back. People didn't like it but it was still quiet. And then came the rice-scam. People still pretended to believe her she didn't know about the corruption. And then her government tried to whitewash big brother at 4am together with 10 other criminals. That was the beginning of the end of her government.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, thaiguzzi said:

Does'nt matter how bent he was.

It does matter, that's exactly the point.

 

Yes, he did some good for the people.

But remember when he came to power? His argument was that he is already rich and does not need more money. 555 What a joke. He gave crumbs to the people and enriched himself and his cronies. And he did not even try to hide it. A big part of his corruption was obvious. Look at the telecoms business, the loan for the satellite, not paying taxes, etc.

 

It's time that Thai people vote for honest people. Because they will only get an honest government if they vote for honest MPs. That shouldn't be so difficult to understand.

 

And for the record: I am not a Prayut fan. I am anti-Thaksin. Where are the honest politicians in this country? People could vote for honest people, but they don't...

[thaiguzzi]

33 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Or are they smart because the politicians bribe them and they are happy to receive a few hundred baht

Er, there are many cases of the Junta PRPP party doing exactly that recently.

34 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Smart people don't vote for corrupt criminals. People who do that are gullible idiots or buffaloes,

Smart people don't vote for corrupt generals. People who do that are the middle class elite.

[Eric Loh]

25 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Now imagine Yingluck would have worked for the people. What then? Would the coup still have happened?

People accepted the Yingluck government at the beginning. Even people who didn't vote for her gave her a chance to show that she would work for the Thai people and not for her big brother.

But what did she do? About the first thing that happened was that criminal big brother got his passport back. People didn't like it but it was still quiet. And then came the rice-scam. People still pretended to believe her she didn't know about the corruption. And then her government tried to whitewash big brother at 4am together with 10 other criminals. That was the beginning of the end of her government.

You don't seem to understand that the elites and the military do not want to be threatened by the rise of the peasants who realized that they can chose the leaders rather than being dominated for ages. Thaksin appealed to this group and have given them good policies that benefit them. That's why he and Yingluck got re-elected by a landslide victory. Don't disrespect the people decision by degradatory remarks. 

 

The coup was planned even before Yingluck implement any policies. She gave passport back to her brother was within her rights as elected government. No difference from Prayut giving a free pass to Prawit's watch corruption. The amnesty at 4 am was open to the opposition MPs but they declined to attend. Anyway, the amnesty bill was not pushed unlike the junta's self approving amnesty. Open your eyes to such discrepancies. 

 

You said that you anti junta yet you speak so fondly about the coup. Hard to understand where you stand and who you try to defend. 

 

  

[connda]

6 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

Yes it is a surprisingly critical article that I doubt the Junta would like

Wonder when the OP will be place in a Re-education camp?

[OneMoreFarang]

25 minutes ago, thaiguzzi said:

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Or are they smart because the politicians bribe them and they are happy to receive a few hundred baht

Er, there are many cases of the Junta PRPP party doing exactly that recently.

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Smart people don't vote for corrupt criminals. People who do that are gullible idiots or buffaloes,

Smart people don't vote for corrupt generals. People who do that are the middle class elite.

Or people vote for the lesser evil.

At least Prayut made sure there are no red-shirts on the streets of Bangkok anymore. I am sure lots of people are happy about that. Thanks Prayut!

[OneMoreFarang]

17 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

You don't seem to understand that the elites and the military do not want to be threatened by the rise of the peasants who realized that they can chose the leaders rather than being dominated for ages. Thaksin appealed to this group and have given them good policies that benefit them. That's why he and Yingluck got re-elected by a landslide victory. Don't disrespect the people decision by degradatory remarks. 

 

The coup was planned even before Yingluck implement any policies. She gave passport back to her brother was within her rights as elected government. No difference from Prayut giving a free pass to Prawit's watch corruption. The amnesty at 4 am was open to the opposition MPs but they declined to attend. Anyway, the amnesty bill was not pushed unlike the junta's self approving amnesty. Open your eyes to such discrepancies. 

 

You said that you anti junta yet you speak so fondly about the coup. Hard to understand where you stand and who you try to defend.   

I wrote I am anti Thaksin. The military is not good but a lot better than Thaksin.

 

I always think it's funny when people don't include Thaksin in the elite...

 

Let's make this simple: Imagine Thailand would have a honest government. It would include poor people from all over the country. It would work for the people of Thailand. Imagine the politicians would not be corrupt. Would there be a coup to remove such a government? Who would support such a coup? Would it be without any bloodshed like the last two coups?

Over to you.

[the guest]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

If you believe Thaksin and his corrupt family were in it for "democracy, the good of the people, or the country" then you are naive at best.

 

He was an opportunistic chancer who threw crumbs to the masses and succeeded in manipulating them. But what real major reforms did he or his puppets introduce to benefit the people? Massive changes in education, wealth distribution, labor relations? Nope. It was all about the trough. He wanted control and to cement his family in full control politically, as his mate Hun Sen has done, and has his heroes the Lees did.

 

All the coups have been, and will be, about the in-fighting of the top hiso elites and their various factions.  That small % who control nearly all the wealth and power, supported by the patronage system. The fabulously wealthy play their games, but most remain fabulously wealthy - regardless of the effects on the vast majority who will never be in that strata.

 

It would make a good story line for a Shakespear style play. One of tragedies not comedies.

Thailand is no different to any other countries controlled in the same manner. I can name many western nations who are manipulated by the 1%.

[Wilsonandson]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

What was the point of this country spending Bt5.8 billion to hold a general election, plus Bt1.3 billion to select a Senate, if the result is that General Prayut Chan-o-cha continues in power?

The pro-Prayut party won the popular vote with 8.4 million ballots, main opposition party had 7.9 million. It's called democracy.

[Denim]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And what do you think about the people who vote for the criminal Shinawatras again and again?

Are they somehow smart that they expect that criminals will form a honest government and work for the people?

Or are they smart because the politicians bribe them and they are happy to receive a few hundred baht so that the politicians can make many millions. Yeah, smart...

Smart people don't vote for corrupt criminals. People who do that are gullible idiots or buffaloes, of whatever you want to call them.

 

They are smart enough to know that a military government is worse than a civilian one.

 

They know from previous experience that a military government is more corrupt and less transparent than a civilian one. That a military government is unaccountable to the people and is above the rule of law to an even greater degree than rich civilians since they make themselves immune from prosecution. That normally a military packed government can only be changed by the effusion of the peoples blood whereas a civilian government can be voted out of office by putting a slip of paper in a box.

 

They are smart enough to know the difference between having the freedom of speech or getting locked up for a long time merely from saying something against the government or exposing a wrong.

 

I really cannot understand how anyone could possibly think that a military government is any way preferable to a civilian one.

 

A hobsons' choice yes but most people are smart enough to discern the lesser of two evils.

[holy cow cm]

45 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Or people vote for the lesser evil.

At least Prayut made sure there are no red-shirts on the streets of Bangkok anymore. I am sure lots of people are happy about that. Thanks Prayut!

Yeah, they are called the elite and the junta. If you think the junta is a lesser evil, then may god and buddha help you.

[Eric Loh]

37 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I wrote I am anti Thaksin. The military is not good but a lot better than Thaksin.

 

I always think it's funny when people don't include Thaksin in the elite...

 

Let's make this simple: Imagine Thailand would have a honest government. It would include poor people from all over the country. It would work for the people of Thailand. Imagine the politicians would not be corrupt. Would there be a coup to remove such a government? Who would support such a coup? Would it be without any bloodshed like the last two coups?

Over to you.

Why don’t you imagine that there are no coups (17 coups and 1 every 6 years) and less period of elected governments than military sponsored governments. Thailand would have less corruption and better leaders. The problem is that the military is far worse and corrupt than politicians and are not good role models period. Military coups have distorted the progress of democracy and their corruptions only give the politicians excuses to be corrupt. You should stop supporting coup if you sincerely want honest and good leaders. Stop fooling yourself. 

[holy cow cm]

19 minutes ago, Wilsonandson said:

The pro-Prayut party won the popular vote with 8.4 million ballots, main opposition party had 7.9 million. It's called democracy.

Its called a severe travesty of dishonesty. Hardly democratic. They redrew the election boundaries and in a sense made (watched over and took directly to the polls) everyone who is in the military to vote that way, rewarded the clueless, and one could think that there was indeed a lot of box stuffing that we will never hear the real details of. Who knows how far reaching and scary they went with parties, but I do remember a certain retired general who joined PTP and then all of a sudden exited probably with his tail between his legs saying personal matters. Smoke and mirrors of deceit. 

[holy cow cm]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I am in Thailand since before Thaksin came to power. I was here when the coups happened. And it took time before they actually happened. Thaksin and his little sister had the opportunity to correct their criminal behavior before the coups. But they didn't.

 

Obvious there might be other reasons which also play a role why the coups happened. But for the last two coups the criminal Shinawatras were the main reason and the people on the streets were happy that finally the military stopped the criminals. I am sure the people would not have accepted the last coups without a good reason.

Such garble and I really think you believe yourself. Thaskin was by all means not great and certainly had some good with some bad, but this Junta is a chip off the old elite block of deception, personal immunity, stacking of the cards by deceit. No bigger from of hidden corruption here if one could prove the real facts under fearing retribution. FFP was the breathe of fresh air, and at least most Thai can see the need to eliminate the iron fist of old control, but hard to find the how to do.

[Wilsonandson]

2 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

Its called a severe travesty of dishonesty. Hardly democratic. They redrew the election boundaries and in a sense made (watched over and took directly to the polls) everyone who is in the military to vote that way, rewarded the clueless, and one could think that there was indeed a lot of box stuffing that we will never hear the real details of. Who knows how far reaching and scary they went with parties, but I do remember a certain retired general who joined PTP and then all of a sudden exited probably with his tail between his legs saying personal matters. Smoke and mirrors of deceit. 

Hmm, how many soldiers voted? That would be an interesting statistic to find out.

[thaiguzzi]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I wrote I am anti Thaksin. The military is not good but a lot better than Thaksin.

 

I always think it's funny when people don't include Thaksin in the elite...

 

Let's make this simple: Imagine Thailand would have a honest government. It would include poor people from all over the country. It would work for the people of Thailand. Imagine the politicians would not be corrupt. Would there be a coup to remove such a government? Who would support such a coup? Would it be without any bloodshed like the last two coups?

Over to you.

Naive in the extreme.

I don't even feel sorry for you or your lack of understanding in how this country works.

But i do pity you in your lack of understanding of who the bad guys really are.

Naive in the extreme.

[Briggsy]

According to the Thai political cycle, the military doesn't give up the trough and return to their barracks until they have committed a massacre. So the next part will be protests and a massacre (that could take years), then a technocrat administration followed by a populist government followed by a coup. It is a simple cycle. The benefits for those involved are simply too great.

[Reigntax]

7 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And why did the 2014 coup happen?

If Thaksin and his little sister would have worked for all Thais and Thailand that would not have happened.

Democratically elected? Yes. Criminals? Yes!

The courts should never have allowed Thaksin's "honest mistakes" then we would not have had two decades with this criminal and his minions.

The coups happened for a reason. People gave flowers to the soldiers for a reason. Decent people don't want to be ruled by criminal corrupt politicians. And if a coup if the only way to get rid of the criminals then that's it.

Don't confuse cause and effect!

Except that they have done it 18 times and each time they have been a failure.

One thinks the rhetorical excuses justifying any coup are just that. Otherwise one would have to question the same group trying the same again despite 17 previous failures and whether they have the intelligence required.

 

But we all know the real reasons!!!!

 

And Thaksin was not responsible for the first 16.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Reigntax

[Fred white]

8 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

If you think corruption was rampant before. Stay tuned.

But the ncpo said there is no more corruption ????

[geoffbezoz]

3 hours ago, Srikcir said:

Humorous I understand but of course Article 88 in the 2017 Constitution relates to EC approving candidates to the House of Representatives. Albeit some might view any actions by this EC as "evil."

 

What may be "evil" though is the fact that until the new government is "installed," Prayut can invoke Article 44 of the Interim 2014 Charter to make unilateral constitutional changes to the 2017 Constitution so long as the changes are duly endorsed.

Thus, if Prayut should be "elected" as the new PM but not yet endorsed as part of the new government, he could invoke Article 44 to legally extend that privilege (for reason of national security?) during his new term as PM, to be revoked at some an appropriate time.

Appreciate that you appreciate it was  joke. However Prayut will not be appointed PM do to orders from above apparently. Good or bad only time will tell.