Do Muslims Wai?

[baabaabobo]

I was once told by a Buddhist master that the origins of the wai came from enclosing a young lotus flower with your hands thus symbolically offering a lotus to somebody.

Recently I met a Thai muslim who did not return my wai to him which makes me think that only Buddhist Thais wai. Am I correct in this assumption?

[ThaiGoon]

I went to a middle school in Pattani, and saw my Muslim friends wai our teachers on a regular basis. I don't know why that Thai Muslim didn't return your wai. Normal moderate Thai Muslims do wai like any other Thais. Gen. Sonthi, a Muslim, also definitely wais people.

[tijnebijn]

Everybody wais in Thailand,whether you are muslim ,cristian or buddhist.It is the Thai way to say hello,it is the thai culture to do and very normal to everybody.That bloke that did not wai,maybe was an elderly guy,sometimes they do not wai back cause of the situation,also normal,or he was very impolite and that can happen to a buddhist as well so just something like that.

[sonicdragon]

I believe that the wai is a cultural greeting and transcends religion, originating in india where buddhists and hindus call it "namaste".

[Acquiesce]

I always thought it there was a similar origin to the hand shake. Ie extending your right hand (pistol hand) out to the other person to show you were not drawing a weapon. I thought the wai was originaly to show that your hands are empty of weapons.

[GuestHouse]

I believe that the wai is a cultural greeting and transcends religion, originating in india where buddhists and hindus call it "namaste".

Correct.

[baabaabobo]

Thanks for the replies I also assumed it was a cultural greeting not linked to religion until I heard the lotus story. I think the Muslim guy was just rude as he was younger and junior than me... maybe he just doesn't like farangs.

[GuestHouse]

Thanks for the replies I also assumed it was a cultural greeting not linked to religion until I heard the lotus story. I think the Muslim guy was just rude as he was younger and junior than me... maybe he just doesn't like farangs.

Maybe he was being a bit more specific that Farangs in general.

[MiG16]

cant confirm whether it really has anything to do with religion, BUT

most muslims in the south are under the impression that to 'wai' is against their religion. I cannot say whether this is really so or whether the Quran prohibits it, but it is a fact that children grow up being told by their elders (family/religious teachers/leaders) that they are not suppose to "wai" as to them this is the buddhist way.

a typical greeting for muslims that I see is a form of handshake, where you place both your hands out, and take the other person's hand in between yours, and then slowly draw out your own hands backwards towards your chest. (hard to explain but i can show it to you how its done )

so no, the guy wasnt being rude. in his belief he is not suppose to 'wai'. like i said it could be misinformation where they think its linked to buddhism, but thats the reality to them and hence will go out of their way to not 'wai'. but yes the more modern ones will adopt the gesture.

Cheers.

PS. so strong is the belief that they infact take offend if you 'wai' them. I do not 'wai' my muslim elders (have quite a lot of dealing with them), apart from a very rare few exceptions who are very modern (most in the south are not).

Edited March 9, 2007 by MiG16

[pampal]

Generally speaking, there is nothing in Quran about the wai, so it's not forbidden.

But in Islam, you are not allowed to bow down to humans, only to God.

The Thai Muslims have their own interpretation of whether to wai or not.

Different Muslims use different greetings, many Arabs shake hands and then kiss the elders shoulder signifying obedience.

Iranians shake hands and kiss each others cheeks.

To say that Muslims greet in a certain way is misleading because it differs according to their beliefs and cultural traditions.

[Amethyst]

In Malaysia and Brunei Darussalam(regardless of race or religion) people only Wai to the Sultan's and Kings

Indonesian wai to show they respect the others

Edited March 9, 2007 by tytus

[grtaylor]

. . . and Thai Catholics wai each other at the Peace at Mass.

G

[qwertz]

. . . and Thai Catholics wai each other at the Peace at Mass.

G

As a kid I was taught by the Anglicans to wai only during prayer. It's a very old Christian gesture and was used by beggars as a silent plea for charity. Practical really because many deaf mutes were forced to beg in the good old days. I notice that the Thai beggars do this often too. Did they learn from Christians or vice versa?

[bubbaba]

Everybody wais in Thailand,whether you are muslim ,cristian or buddhist.It is the Thai way to say hello,it is the thai culture to do and very normal to everybody.That bloke that did not wai,maybe was an elderly guy,sometimes they do not wai back cause of the situation,also normal,or he was very impolite and that can happen to a buddhist as well so just something like that.

An older person is not required to wai in return according to Thai culture. Some do and some do not. Both are poliet and correct.

[jackr]

maybe he just doesn't like farangs.

I'd say you've answered your own question

[Sophon]

I always thought it there was a similar origin to the hand shake. Ie extending your right hand (pistol hand) out to the other person to show you were not drawing a weapon.

I'm pretty sure the handshake outdates the pistol, so if anything it would be to show that your sword hand was empty.

Sophon

[Thai-Aust]

Everybody wais in Thailand,whether you are muslim ,cristian or buddhist.It is the Thai way to say hello,it is the thai culture to do and very normal to everybody.That bloke that did not wai,maybe was an elderly guy,sometimes they do not wai back cause of the situation,also normal,or he was very impolite and that can happen to a buddhist as well so just something like that.

An older person is not required to wai in return according to Thai culture. Some do and some do not. Both are poliet and correct.

Yes, those statements are correct. Older person may just nod their head - or just a smile on their face - to acknowledge your wai. You may not notice this. This particulary true when that person is in a higher social status than you are, excluding politicians who will wai anyone and everyone.

[Acquiesce]

Everybody wais in Thailand,whether you are muslim ,cristian or buddhist.It is the Thai way to say hello,it is the thai culture to do and very normal to everybody.That bloke that did not wai,maybe was an elderly guy,sometimes they do not wai back cause of the situation,also normal,or he was very impolite and that can happen to a buddhist as well so just something like that.

An older person is not required to wai in return according to Thai culture. Some do and some do not. Both are poliet and correct.

Yes, those statements are correct. Older person may just nod their head - or just a smile on their face - to acknowledge your wai. You may not notice this. This particulary true when that person is in a higher social status than you are, excluding politicians who will wai anyone and everyone.

So what about this situation? What would be correct here?

A young foreigner meets a Thai girl for lunch. She does the wai and he returns the gesture. To go back to his hotel he hails a taxi. The older driver, upon receiving a good tip, wais him, then drives off. The foreigner waves his hand to mean 'never mind.'

Some days later, the girl invites him to her house. An old man walks out and she introduces her father, whom he instantly recognizes as none other than the taxi driver.

Now, should the westerner, say a manager of some firm (status), recognizing the taxi-driver father (elder person), wai first? Or not wai but mumble something in English as a detour? Or merely extend a hand for a handshake? Do nothing to see what happens first?

Before he can sort himself out, a woman looking younger than he walks in and his girlfriend introduces the woman as her stepmother. Should he wai this younger woman first or wait for her to do it first? An elderly woman now comes in and it turns out she is the chief servant. He becomes confused. Wai quickly?

Murmur something in French or Chinese?

[MiG16]

acquiese

stop trying to confuse people...... grrrrrr

there is no fixed rule...but as a guideline....you are not required to 'wai' a stranger simply cos they are older than you. but u would do it if they have done something nice for you and are older.

in your example above, I would definitely 'wai' the older guy once you know he is your GF's dad.(family) it was ok not to when he was only a taxi driver (stranger). (to me its not about status....I wouldnt want the taxi driver to 'wai' me either)

in the case of the older woman who is a household help....you would not 'wai' her....but in my thinking its not cos her status is lower...but she is simply a stranger...there is no reason for you to 'wai' her. or you will end up 'wai-ing' every older person you see everyday.

in terms of status....yes some may feel that counts...for instance I have had sales people...who are older than me, wai me first.....Im always rushing to wai them as quickly!!! cos to me that just isnt right

[Thai-Aust]

So what about this situation? What would be correct here?

A young foreigner meets a Thai girl for lunch. She does the wai and he returns the gesture. To go back to his hotel he hails a taxi. The older driver, upon receiving a good tip, wais him, then drives off. The foreigner waves his hand to mean 'never mind.'

Some days later, the girl invites him to her house. An old man walks out and she introduces her father, whom he instantly recognizes as none other than the taxi driver.

Now, should the westerner, say a manager of some firm (status), recognizing the taxi-driver father (elder person), wai first? Or not wai but mumble something in English as a detour? Or merely extend a hand for a handshake? Do nothing to see what happens first?

Before he can sort himself out, a woman looking younger than he walks in and his girlfriend introduces the woman as her stepmother. Should he wai this younger woman first or wait for her to do it first? An elderly woman now comes in and it turns out she is the chief servant. He becomes confused. Wai quickly?

Murmur something in French or Chinese?

I hope that I answer these questions to someone who really is confused and wants to know how to behave in these situations.

Rule of thumb, never wai anyone who younger than you are, unless you're a saleperson, politician, or working as some kind of service person.

To answer your questions, you should wai your gf's or friend's father, social status doesn't apply here. As mentioned earlier, you shouldn't wai her stepmother since she's younger than you. Just say hello and put a smile on your face that should be enough. She may or maynot wai you. With the chief servant, since she isn't related to your friend, social status does apply. Another words, you will not wai her simply because she's older.

As a matter of fact, I do spot something is not right here. Generally taxi drivers will not wai passengers, no matter how big the tip is. They will only say thanks and that's it.

Sometimes you do wai strangers when you're introduced to them, pretty much like handshaking. Again, who wais who first depends on who hold a higher status. If they're equal, the younger one wais first.

Hope this clears up some confusion.

Edited March 11, 2007 by Thai-Aust

[sbk]

Thanks for the replies I also assumed it was a cultural greeting not linked to religion until I heard the lotus story. I think the Muslim guy was just rude as he was younger and junior than me... maybe he just doesn't like farangs.

You don't wai someone younger and junior to yourself first. Perhaps you confused him with your inappropriate behavior.

[Pink Mist]

back on track, do muslums wai?

[Thai-Aust]

I don't know about Muslims in the South, but Muslims everywhere else do wai. One of my best friends is Muslim and she wais, not to mention drink and all that. Only one thing that I can associate her with other Muslims is she doesn't eat pork!

[sabaijai]

cant confirm whether it really has anything to do with religion, BUT

most muslims in the south are under the impression that to 'wai' is against their religion. I cannot say whether this is really so or whether the Quran prohibits it, but it is a fact that children grow up being told by their elders (family/religious teachers/leaders) that they are not suppose to "wai" as to them this is the buddhist way.

a typical greeting for muslims that I see is a form of handshake, where you place both your hands out, and take the other person's hand in between yours, and then slowly draw out your own hands backwards towards your chest. (hard to explain but i can show it to you how its done )

so no, the guy wasnt being rude. in his belief he is not suppose to 'wai'. like i said it could be misinformation where they think its linked to buddhism, but thats the reality to them and hence will go out of their way to not 'wai'. but yes the more modern ones will adopt the gesture.

Cheers.

PS. so strong is the belief that they infact take offend if you 'wai' them. I do not 'wai' my muslim elders (have quite a lot of dealing with them), apart from a very rare few exceptions who are very modern (most in the south are not).

I have Muslim Thai friends in all regions of Thailand, and concur with all of the above, it is generally considered 'un-Muslim' to wai, esp in southern Thailand.

In areas where Muslim Thais aren't so strict - pretty much anywhere outside the south - Muslims will wai Buddhist Thais but will never wai among themselves, rather they exchange the Muslim handshake described above.

In cases where Muslim Thais wai or return a wai to/from a Buddhist, they're simply following a 'when in Rome' principle. My wife was raised as a Muslim, attended Christian schools and yet most of her friends are Buddhist. She wais regularly among Buddhists, but never among Muslims or Christians. .

I've had a couple discussions with Muslim Thai friends about this very topic and some of them admit it's sometimes awkward for them. In fact growing up Muslim in a country where Buddhism is the de facto national religion is not always easy.

Aside: I have Christian Thai friends in Chiang Mai who won't wai other Christians, including farang (whom they assume are Christian), either. When asked about this they've said it's because the wai is a 'Buddhist custom'. To me the Thai wai is more cultural than religious but obviously for some non-Buddhists it's considered relgious or quasi-religious. (Begs the question how much of religion is cultural; quite a bit, I'd say).

[ThaiFelix]

Thanks for the replies I also assumed it was a cultural greeting not linked to religion until I heard the lotus story. I think the Muslim guy was just rude as he was younger and junior than me... maybe he just doesn't like farangs.

You don't wai someone younger and junior to yourself first. Perhaps you confused him with your inappropriate behavior.

I look at this way, manners are cheap but they can buy you a lot. If in doubt wai. and wai first. I am always responded to with a huge smile and a wai in return. You are obviously trying to show some respect as well as trying to fit into a society that you dont originate from. How can someone be offended by such an action (unless they are carrying some other 'baggage').

When in Rome......!

[h90]

I always thought it there was a similar origin to the hand shake. Ie extending your right hand (pistol hand) out to the other person to show you were not drawing a weapon. I thought the wai was originaly to show that your hands are empty of weapons.

knife/sword not pistol, it is much older than pistols.