Thai expats see incomes soar

[DrTuner]

7 minutes ago, wolf81 said:

Who would know if you work from a home office? And if you're really scared of being snooped by Thai immigration, you could use a VPN. Personally, I doubt Thailand cares very much - at least for now.

Yes, you're relying on the non-enforcement of Thail laws. This being Thailand it's pretty much the gold standard, but they do have crackdowns and the general trend is to squeeze farangs out. It's a risk one takes when acting illegally - and shouldn't be promoted on a public forum like TVF. This is the largest English speaking forum and it's pretty certain what goes on in here will end up at immigrations desk eventually. Just about same as flying a blimp three feet from a radar station.

 

Just sayin'.

[CGW]

There's so many variables here! personally as a 40 year expat I always preferred a "day-rate" as so many of these "incentives" which are "included" were useless to me.

I was working for a "multinational" in Bangkok 2103 -14, the average electric bill for those on a full "expat" package with house included was 28,500.00 Baht a month, with costings like this it doesn't take long for the complete package to seem very high.

[suzannegoh]

2 hours ago, Duck J Butters said:

Better just to become a digital nomad and work for US tech companies that pay mid-six figures (10-year contracts at 12% annual increase ) + equity + bonuses and live beachfront in Thailand. The remote packages US tech companies are offering for you "not to live in the US" are far superior to what is posted above. You also don't have to bother with the Thai taxes since you're not working for a Thai company, don't need a work permit, and the work you are doing is for a different country. US tax is also minimal due to Foreign Earned Income Exclusion ( FEIE ). Your first $105k of salary earned while living abroad is federal-tax-free. At max, you're looking at 15% self-employment tax but even that can be avoided if you set up an offshore company in Singapore for example.

 

The real question is, with the way tech companies are going these days, why on Earth would anyone live in a Western country where the cost of living is absurd and you're getting reamed with 30% - 40% tax on your salary? Verus you can go live in Thailand, get paid exactly what you would get paid while living in the US ( makes no difference to tech companies, just need a computer ), pay 40,000 baht a month to live oceanfront in Phuket ... all while raking in 1 million baht a month at 12% to 15% tax to the US. Seems like a no brainer to me.

 

Github, Amazon, Facebook, Google, Netflix are all working towards distributed and fully remote teams by 2024. I'm age 30 and work for one of the companies listed above, fully remote, from Phuket and have a 15-year contract locked in. Impossible to break the contract. 

 

Remote is the future and companies do not care where you live anymore. No one in their right mind would live in the US if they didn't have to. It's a huge disadvantage to live in the US or Europe these days. I can't speak for Europe but I can say with certainty that the US doesn't really have anything that Thailand doesn't have in 2019. Nothing really. Even Whole Foods is not a US perk anymore. Bangkok has Gourmet Market which is better. Phuket has Villa Market which is good enough. I would even argue that healthcare in Thailand is on par with the US.  I had some serious work done on my teeth last month in Phuket and was blown away by my Thai dentist. Extremely good work done and at 1/6th of what said work would have cost me in California. I mean who needs health insurance in Thailand at these prices?

 

Of course, you need to get a Thai wife so you can stay here forever on a marriage visa and avoid being put into the system via work permit. But that's easy enough to find. 

 

And no, Thailand has no interest in giving digital nomads the boot or taxing us. We bring massive amounts of money into the country, spend big wads of stupid cash, and employ lots of Thais. I've hired over 20 Thai programmers since I've been living in Thailand. Thailand needs more digital nomads if anything and should be doing everything they can to attract our attention.

 

https://remoteok.io/ Change your life and work from home, from anywhere you freaking want...dude. California Dreaming but in Thailand.

Yes, the base salary (neglecting fringe benefits) for those jobs sounds a little low, but do you think that your salary as a Digital Nomad is typical?  If the Digital Nomads in Chiang Mai are averaging in excess of US$100K per year they sure are hiding it well. 

[barnsleyman]

2 hours ago, bomber said:

cum back to england and enjoy your wonderful nation soon to unshackled from the EU,get back soon before it drops to 35????   yorkshire is true england according to nontabury ????

Hi Bomber,

No thank you to going back to Barnsley,or any other part of the UK,it's now become a haven,& a dumping ground for the dregs of Europe, & those scroungers who's last job was a milk monitor at school 

[bomber]

1 minute ago, barnsleyman said:

Hi Bomber,

No thank you to going back to Barnsley,or any other part of the UK,it's now become a haven,& a dumping ground for the dregs of Europe, & those scroungers who's last job was a milk monitor at school 

Brexit will be utophia then...rejoice rejoice

[iamariva1957]

Interesting article. False but an interesting take on the World's financial health among those of retirement age. My question is did they actually take into account the 'normal' population? Or just those in Singapore or from within those that have that 'golden retirement package' that comes with the six figure monthly payout; you know the 1%?

 

So, if Thailand really thinks that it doing so well... why is it that it cannot pick a government, come to grips with China and its moving in plans (There are Chinese 'themed' communities (complete with their own schools, shops, hospitals, etc already being planned and built within my own Province and elsewhere by all accounts. These also include.... where geographically possible... casinos). Or find itself losing trade, and tourist numbers, Thai Airlines failing, as well as environmental issues that have helped to diminish those aforementioned numbers. 

 

The Thai Baht might be the healthy at the moment, but is it really. I mean compared to what. As for retirement salaries going up by 11% or whatever... and I mean whatever... as it all seems to be at best based upon want-to-be guesswork. For I do not see any of those numbers on the folks that  have daily interactions with. Seems to me that most are faced with an uphill struggle not just with the new immigration financial policies, the future health insurance fiasco for A/O visa holders, but with the changes going on in this country. 

 

I love this country and its people. But like we are all our worst enemy. However, this country is losing its view on what is really important. Or is that the only thing anyone here prays for at the shrines, the Spirit Houses and the statuary in their homes is for ... money. I like to think that it is not the only thing. But these days I simply do not see it is the same for those running the 'show'.

[Pravda]

1 hour ago, suzannegoh said:

Yes, the base salary (neglecting fringe benefits) for those jobs sounds a little low, but do you think that your salary as a Digital Nomad is typical?  If the Digital Nomads in Chiang Mai are averaging in excess of US$100K per year they sure are hiding it well. 

 

There was a documentary recently about digital nomads (not in Thailand) on either RT or DW and the ones they interviewed that were doing fairly well seem to be earning around US 40-50k. One in particular, kinda poor looking with a hat and a guitar seemed to be boasting through entire episode that he once got paid in Ethereum. 

[iamariva1957]

1 hour ago, suzannegoh said:

Yes, the base salary (neglecting fringe benefits) for those jobs sounds a little low, but do you think that your salary as a Digital Nomad is typical?  If the Digital Nomads in Chiang Mai are averaging in excess of US$100K per year they sure are hiding it well. 

Github, Amazon, Facebook, Google, Netflix are all working towards distributed and fully remote teams by 2024. I'm age 30 and work for one of the companies listed above, fully remote, from Phuket and have a 15-year contract locked in. Impossible to break the contract. 

 

Please tell me how to apply!

[suzannegoh]

Interesting article. False but an interesting take on the World's financial health among those of retirement age. My question is did they actually take into account the 'normal' population? Or just those in Singapore or from within those that have that 'golden retirement package' that comes with the six figure monthly payout; you know the 1%?
 
So, if Thailand really thinks that it doing so well... why is it that it cannot pick a government, come to grips with China and its moving in plans (There are Chinese 'themed' communities (complete with their own schools, shops, hospitals, etc already being planned and built within my own Province and elsewhere by all accounts. These also include.... where geographically possible... casinos). Or find itself losing trade, and tourist numbers, Thai Airlines failing, as well as environmental issues that have helped to diminish those aforementioned numbers. 
 
The Thai Baht might be the healthy at the moment, but is it really. I mean compared to what. As for retirement salaries going up by 11% or whatever... and I mean whatever... as it all seems to be at best based upon want-to-be guesswork. For I do not see any of those numbers on the folks that  have daily interactions with. Seems to me that most are faced with an uphill struggle not just with the new immigration financial policies, the future health insurance fiasco for A/O visa holders, but with the changes going on in this country. 
 
I love this country and its people. But like we are all our worst enemy. However, this country is losing its view on what is really important. Or is that the only thing anyone here prays for at the shrines, the Spirit Houses and the statuary in their homes is for ... money. I like to think that it is not the only thing. But these days I simply do not see it is the same for those running the 'show'.

The article is not about retirees, it's about corporate expats.

[bkk6060]

2 hours ago, iamariva1957 said:

Interesting article. False but an interesting take on the World's financial health among those of retirement age. My question is did they actually take into account the 'normal' population? Or just those in Singapore or from within those that have that 'golden retirement package' that comes with the six figure monthly payout; you know the 1%?

 

So, if Thailand really thinks that it doing so well... why is it that it cannot pick a government, come to grips with China and its moving in plans (There are Chinese 'themed' communities (complete with their own schools, shops, hospitals, etc already being planned and built within my own Province and elsewhere by all accounts. These also include.... where geographically possible... casinos). Or find itself losing trade, and tourist numbers, Thai Airlines failing, as well as environmental issues that have helped to diminish those aforementioned numbers. 

 

The Thai Baht might be the healthy at the moment, but is it really. I mean compared to what. As for retirement salaries going up by 11% or whatever... and I mean whatever... as it all seems to be at best based upon want-to-be guesswork. For I do not see any of those numbers on the folks that  have daily interactions with. Seems to me that most are faced with an uphill struggle not just with the new immigration financial policies, the future health insurance fiasco for A/O visa holders, but with the changes going on in this country. 

 

I love this country and its people. But like we are all our worst enemy. However, this country is losing its view on what is really important. Or is that the only thing anyone here prays for at the shrines, the Spirit Houses and the statuary in their homes is for ... money. 

Yet here you are with your entire post basically talking about money....

 

The: "Thais are all about the money" is all pretty old and a naive reference.

What are you and your family and friends and country about? World peace??

Edited May 24, 2019 by bkk6060

[sambum]

20 hours ago, DrTuner said:

These are the "packaged" expats that come for a few years max from other countries to execute some job that can't be locally sourced. Multinationals mostly, you need to be in one and up the corporate ladder before you can dream of being sent out with full package.

But -  but - but - I thought "farangs" were dumb?

[RocketDog]

On 5/23/2019 at 10:46 PM, mecool said:

So the average expat salary increased by about 11-12% in USD terms year over year.

 

I wonder how many percentage the USD devalued against the THB over the same period.

 

Any guesses ?

Well, when I came in 2016 I got ~35฿/$. Now it's 32 on a good day. So call it 10%.

[JimGant]

On 5/23/2019 at 9:40 PM, DrTuner said:

So nobody wants to come here unless there's a hefty premium given.

Nope. We're not talking about the "nobodies." We're talking about the skilled, educated, productive "somebodies." You don't need hefty premiums for nobodies -- but you do for the somebodies. Bodes well for Thailand. Thank you Somkid. Hope you remain in whatever the new government looks like.

[suzannegoh]

43 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Nope. We're not talking about the "nobodies." We're talking about the skilled, educated, productive "somebodies." You don't need hefty premiums for nobodies -- but you do for the somebodies. Bodes well for Thailand. Thank you Somkid. Hope you remain in whatever the new government looks like.

This days there seem to be more corporate people interested in international assignments, but often the people that a company really wants to fill those posts with will have a life in the US that they'd need to uproot in order to take the job.  Kids need to be taken out of school, you might need to sell your house, etc.  And then there's the issue of whether it's really a good job to take - taking the wrong international assignment can really derail your career.  So yeah, to get the right people you're going to have to make it lucrative.

Edited May 25, 2019 by suzannegoh

[DrTuner]

4 minutes ago, suzannegoh said:

This days there seem to be more corporate people interested in intentional assignments, but often the people that a company really wants to fill those posts with will have a life in the US that they'd need to uproot in order to take the job.  Kids need to be taken out of school, you might need to sell your house, etc.  And then there's the issue of whether it's really a good job to take - taking the wrong international assignment can really derail your career.  So yeah, to get the right people you're going to have to make it lucrative.

Not to mention you might get stuck in some country that was supposed to be a temp assignment. Cue in African countries, Saudis and other assorted non desirables like Thailand. The risk must have a reward.

[DLock]

I did 5 "hardship" postings, although Thailand wasn't one.

 

If they want your skills, they will pay what is necessary and it's highly negotiable. I had no real reason to go, so pay me what I wanted to go. I was single, so they didn't have all the extra expense. Every posting, I negotiated more.

 

One of the big things that doesn't get a mention is stock options.

 

I recall my very first posting and no one really knew what the housing allowance needed to be. I looked at a few condos and they one I really liked was $10,000 per month, so that what I asked for and that's what I got. 

[scoutman360]

Clearly contract work. 1-2 years contract max. Teach the Thais, then send the expat home. Not so available for those who live in Thailand.

[DrTuner]

5 hours ago, DLock said:

I did 5 "hardship" postings, although Thailand wasn't one.

Out of curiosity, how is Thailand rated in the hardship scales these days?

[utalkin2me]

If there is one thing I have learned in life, it is that working an honest 9 to 5 job is some of the lowest wages per hour possible. 

 

I think we are all going to realize this one day, but people do not put 2 and 2 together. After you commute daily, waste your time on your unpaid lunch hour (which should not even be legal to not pay people at lunch), and take care if all the little things you need to have done to show up to work like gas in the car, car maintenance, clothes, shaving, taxes.... how much are you really making per hour?

 

The real kicker is you can't do anything, and you do not get compensated for that! Wanna go on a trip to Italy? Well, screw you. You get two days off a week. Ask for more and you are a bum. Your life is not your any ore when you are 9 to 5, and you do not get compensated for the fact that you cannot do anything with your life. 

[faraday]

1 minute ago, utalkin2me said:

If there is one thing I have learned in life, it is that working an honest 9 to 5 job is some of the lowest wages per hour possible. 

 

I think we are all going to realize this one day, but people do not put 2 and 2 together. After you commute daily, waste your time on your unpaid lunch hour (which should not even be legal to not pay people at lunch), and take care if all the little things you need to have done to show up to work like gas in the car, car maintenance, clothes, shaving, taxes.... how much are you really making per hour?

 

The real kicker is you can't do anything, and you do not get compensated for that! Wanna go on a trip to Italy? Well, screw you. You get two days off a week. Ask for more and you are a bum. Your life is not your any ore when you are 9 to 5, and you do not get compensated for the fact that you cannot do anything with your life. 

Ok mate.

Smashing post.

Good night.

 

[suzannegoh]

7 hours ago, utalkin2me said:

If there is one thing I have learned in life, it is that working an honest 9 to 5 job is some of the lowest wages per hour possible. 

 

I think we are all going to realize this one day, but people do not put 2 and 2 together. After you commute daily, waste your time on your unpaid lunch hour (which should not even be legal to not pay people at lunch), and take care if all the little things you need to have done to show up to work like gas in the car, car maintenance, clothes, shaving, taxes.... how much are you really making per hour?

 

The real kicker is you can't do anything, and you do not get compensated for that! Wanna go on a trip to Italy? Well, screw you. You get two days off a week. Ask for more and you are a bum. Your life is not your any ore when you are 9 to 5, and you do not get compensated for the fact that you cannot do anything with your life. 

True, if by “honest work” you mean a job where you punch a clock.  What people earn is more closely related to how much revenue they have an influence over rather than to how hard they work.
 

[Sealbash]

If there is one thing I have learned in life, it is that working an honest 9 to 5 job is some of the lowest wages per hour possible. 
 
I think we are all going to realize this one day, but people do not put 2 and 2 together. After you commute daily, waste your time on your unpaid lunch hour (which should not even be legal to not pay people at lunch), and take care if all the little things you need to have done to show up to work like gas in the car, car maintenance, clothes, shaving, taxes.... how much are you really making per hour?
 
The real kicker is you can't do anything, and you do not get compensated for that! Wanna go on a trip to Italy? Well, screw you. You get two days off a week. Ask for more and you are a bum. Your life is not your any ore when you are 9 to 5, and you do not get compensated for the fact that you cannot do anything with your life. 

Everything should be free. No borders in the world. Food for everyone. Housing for everyone. Free travel.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[DrTuner]

5 hours ago, Sealbash said:

Everything should be free. No borders in the world. Food for everyone. Housing for everyone. Free travel.

I've got an idea, let's let the government run all the companies and own all the equipment! Worked so well the last time around ..

 

How about thinking about how much the work the whiners do actually profit the one that's paying for the work to be done. In my experience the more they whine, the less they actually produce. Kick on the arse and get a real job.

Edited May 26, 2019 by DrTuner

[Miami007]

Would be interesting to know which industries they surveyed.  

the net salary (after taxes) seems to be in Line with the payments in the hotel business for qualified people in department head positions (which would be a little bit more senior than mid-level).  But the benefits (according to the graph similar to the salary) are very, very hard to find in hotels - you are lucky, if you get a small housing allowance - the international schools, driver, maid, etc are a thing of the past for the "mid-level" expat in the hospitality industry.  

Maybe large manufacturing companies still send people abroad, but even in my wife's company (large US insurance) they no longer move staff for extended periods on these nice expat packages (mostly 3-months assignments now)

[Pravda]

My wife works for a big international company here.... let's just say the one very responsible for one of the most important projects in Bangkok and is in charge for organizing visas, hotels, accommodations and transfers for overseas staff/engineers/whatever.

 

Let's just say that almost everyone flies economy class (which they pay for themselves and have to ask for a refund), stays in basic branded hotel rooms like Sheraton (breakfast included) and paying for international schools is only reserved for the most valued company members who absolutely have to bring their family on a long  term basis.

 

No one gets chauffeured around. If they have to, the company will provide them with their own vehicle to be picked up. Health insurance is good, though. Even my Thai wife gets decent one and she even gets pension, so I assume this must be the most costly part of the "benefits".

Edited May 26, 2019 by Pravda

[DLock]

21 hours ago, DrTuner said:

Out of curiosity, how is Thailand rated in the hardship scales these days?

 

I'm sure as a single man, Thailand is hardly a hardship posting...then again, 2 years in any major city is just enough time to explore and have fun.