Alzheimer's patient forced out of Thailand: Daughter tells Thaivisa they love Thailand but immigration rule changes mean mum must go

[Nong Khai Man]

30 minutes ago, Tajasia said:

Thais want to sell condos but won't let families stay here. They want your money in a Thai bank but you can't open a Thai bank account without a what ? Work permit

Thailand authorities can't even get there systems corresponding due to the JUNTA no reforms policy lol. Laughing stock 

 They want your money in a Thai bank but you can't open a Thai bank account without a what ? Work permit.....I DON'T Have a WP But I've had a Thai Bank Account for the past 20 Years,So Yer Talking BS !!

[cougar52]

Something is fishy about this story.

An American husband and wife team who ran a Web design business successful enough to be sold, but now cannot drum up one bank deposit of $25K which will allow their mother to stay in Thailand until she passes.

During the course of their business career, did they not forge strong enough relationships with clients or collaborators to be able to ask around for help now that they have a real problem?

Don't they have have any family or family friends in America? Is gathering $25K really such an insurmountable challenge? 

Do they really think that living in Manila is going to be that much cheaper than Chiang Mai?

Do they understand how much harder it is to find a place to live there, and how much more expensive rent and utilities are?

Have they ever experienced the existential struggle of trying to find edible food in the Philippines?

Surely, if they had made any friends at all in during their 4 years in Thailand, someone would have pointed out that they can simply pay $600 per year for an agent to grease the wheels for them and stay right here in Chiang Mai. I mean, seriously, that is less that what their flights to Manila will cost them.

 

My guess is that their back story is bullshit and this is an attempt to salt gullible people, farang and Thai, into donating money to them. They have no intention of folding up their circus and moving to Manila.

 

First of all, lets actually point out the cost that they are talking about. Husband visa 8000,000 Baht, add 800,000 for wife makes 1,800,00, now add 800,000 for the Mother adds up to 2,600,00 Baht not to add 1,020,00 the cost of the monthly care for Mom, which adds up to3,620,000 a year without a dime left for living cost, food, utilities, rent ,etc. You people are nothing more that computer warriors, and a sad lot. 

[connda]

1 hour ago, Ridler said:

The people working at immigration are only following the rules.

So were the German soldiers who guarded concentrations camps like Auschwitz-Birkenau and Bergen-Belsen.  Just following the rules.
Who cares about human compassion when you are "just following the rule?"

[grumpy 4680]

   I think that stories like this, and all the other cases of falang's having to leave Thailand will eventually come back to bite the Thai government in the arse, Thailand has a steady income from all the falang's here, So changing the rules making so many leave in favour of Chinese in, will backfire, as it would seem Chinese numbers are already down this year, and less likely to come in the future.

[Basil B]

5 hours ago, mok199 said:

My prediction is Our Commander Prayut, will swoop in with cameras blazing and sieze this golden opportunity to save the day.. ''never let a sad story go to waste''..

 

If it were the UK, I would expect the Home Secretary to be their in a flash after declaring himself runner number 9 in the race for the top job. 

[baansgr]

1 hour ago, Time Traveller said:

 

 

Did you not read the story?

They already have 800,000 baht in the mother's bank account allowing her to stay until next year. However, there's obviously some other issues and they are sick of having to meet the ever changing Thai immigration rules regarding the stay requirements.

 

The issue could be they cant meet the criteria and are using poor old Mum and blaming immigration.

Moving her to PI is their "choice" she isn't being forced there by immigration.

[chuang]

2 hours ago, Alan Michael said:

Obviously Thai immigration aren't very compassionate Buddhists.

This has nothing to do with religion. 

[Galactus]

so Thailand starts to lose retirees due to nonsense immigration rules setup by then ambitious Big Joke.

Retirees nicely contribute to the society here and now, they are leaving and will contribute to the other countries economies, locals and tourism.

Retirees have a fixed income and they contribute to their locality more than short time tourists.

fair enough. why get screwed here when you can live cheaper somewhere else with no nonsense immigration rules.

 

[Arkady]

Very sad but at least they will save costs on the care home, if it is really a third of the cost in the Philippines. That should give them an extra 57,000 baht a month for travel costs to visit her in addition to saving the travel costs from their home in the South of Thailand to Chiang Mai. Thailand loses 85,000 care home costs a month.

[donnacha]

49 minutes ago, cougar52 said:

Husband visa 8000,000 Baht, add 800,000 for wife makes 1,800,00

I believe you may be related to my Thai accountant.

 

49 minutes ago, cougar52 said:

now add 800,000 for the Mother adds up to 2,600,00 Baht not to add 1,020,00 the cost of the monthly care for Mom, which adds up to3,620,000 a year without a dime left for living cost, food, utilities, rent ,etc.

That is the point. The daughter and the husband say that they cannot afford to keep 800K deposited in the bank to fulfill their mother's retirement visa requirements, partly because it is already costing them 85K per month to house her in a unit that can provide the special care with her Alzheimer's requires.

The Thai government, however, requires that retirees have that 800K to hand so that they can cover the costs of any emergencies, medical repatriation or end-of-life medical costs. 800K or $25K is actually a reasonable estimate.

Sadly, at her age and in that mental condition, this poor lady is likely to have an expensive exit in the relatively near future.
 

 

49 minutes ago, cougar52 said:

You people are nothing more that computer warriors, and a sad lot. 

Okay. Even so, you will have to explain why you think a relatively poor country such as Thailand should be forced to pick up the bill for people from rich countries.

 

Edited May 28, 2019 by donnacha

[Arkady]

19 minutes ago, Basil B said:

 

If it were the UK, I would expect the Home Secretary to be their in a flash after declaring himself runner number 9 in the race for the top job. 

 

Sadly there are a lot of question marks about the quality of NHS care given to dementia patients in the UK. One family was suspicious and installed a hidden camera in their relative's room, only to see him being tortured by the staff.  Torture and other abuse is common and the patients who have no one to visit them or care about them are the most vulnerable but none are safe.  It is good that she doesn't have to go to the UK.  I think care in Thailand and the Philippines would be more compassionate.

[lannarebirth]

24 minutes ago, cougar52 said:

Something is fishy about this story.

An American husband and wife team who ran a Web design business successful enough to be sold, but now cannot drum up one bank deposit of $25K which will allow their mother to stay in Thailand until she passes.

During the course of their business career, did they not forge strong enough relationships with clients or collaborators to be able to ask around for help now that they have a real problem?

Don't they have have any family or family friends in America? Is gathering $25K really such an insurmountable challenge? 

Do they really think that living in Manila is going to be that much cheaper than Chiang Mai?

Do they understand how much harder it is to find a place to live there, and how much more expensive rent and utilities are?

Have they ever experienced the existential struggle of trying to find edible food in the Philippines?

Surely, if they had made any friends at all in during their 4 years in Thailand, someone would have pointed out that they can simply pay $600 per year for an agent to grease the wheels for them and stay right here in Chiang Mai. I mean, seriously, that is less that what their flights to Manila will cost them.

 

My guess is that their back story is bullshit and this is an attempt to salt gullible people, farang and Thai, into donating money to them. They have no intention of folding up their circus and moving to Manila.

 

First of all, lets actually point out the cost that they are talking about. Husband visa 8000,000 Baht, add 800,000 for wife makes 1,800,00, now add 800,000 for the Mother adds up to 2,600,00 Baht not to add 1,020,00 the cost of the monthly care for Mom, which adds up to3,620,000 a year without a dime left for living cost, food, utilities, rent ,etc. You people are nothing more that computer warriors, and a sad lot. 

 

Not great at math but your heart's in the right place. 

[donnacha]

1 minute ago, lannarebirth said:

Not great at math but your heart's in the right place. 

Just to be clear, he is also not great at pressing the Quote button. He was quoting my earlier post, only the final paragraph (including that awe-inspiring math) was his response.

Only mentioning this in case anyone is confused.

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts and the replies have been removed. 

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, GoodieAfterDark said:

How do you know they are Christians? The old woman looks Jewish. Probably at least a Crypto Jew.

Good to know where to go when we need a Jewdar expert.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Wake Up said:

I also believe the mom’s social security or social security disability check  is probably paying 60,000 baht more or less of the moms monthly 85,000 bill.  If the mom had assets then someone has spent and depleted the mom’s assets.

 

 People are quick to blame others and tell a good story. But I don’t buy this story as a lot is missing and to blame immigration or anyone else in this situation is IMO misguided at best and opportunistic at worst. 

You believe her s.s. check is 60K baht based on what evidence? Most likely it is much less than that as the average U.S. s.s. check is about 45K baht. She would not be getting a disability check. 

[stanleycoin]

3 hours ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

Hopefully very soon there will be reciprocal laws in the UK that prevent Thais from owning property,  receiving education, obtaining long term visas, owning businesses etc. 

 

We've been remiss for some time in the West but now times they are a changin'.

+ 1 

[Pedrogaz]

Unfortunately, the laws are made for everybody and apart from elites, everyone has to obey them.

 

I read this story yesterday. Frankly they have to park 800,000...say 20,000 pounds in an account in Thailand and she can stay forever. It will cost way more than 20,000 to rehouse and relocate this poor lady...so if they have the money for the relo how come they don't have or can't borrow 20,000? 

 

Assuming what we are told is true, then they have made the wrong decision. Did they try crowd funding?

The other alternative is to move to Laos and get a non O visa there and do a border run with her every 90 days or so...much much cheaper alternative.

[Baerboxer]

The outpouring of sympathy on here is commendable if based on compassion and not simply bashing the rules because no one likes changes especially unclear ones that appear more strict.

 

However, things do seem somewhat odd. The couple sold a business, and now he's 55 and been living here retired off the profits/revenues they made, along with his wife. They then decide to bring their mum over as the care homes in Thailand cost less than USA. 

 

What sort of visa did mum have? A retirement one? If so were they putting money in her bank and then taking it out after each extension? Have they been moving the same money between accounts to get extensions? 

 

I don't wish to pry into their private finances or suggest they publish them publicly. But it seems somehow they got their sums wrong when working their budgets out. 

 

Thailand however, must think if it really wants to develop the old age care home business, as previously stated. If so, they must think about how these people can stay in the country. The new procedures was supposedly introduced to discourage agents who deposit then withdraw the 800k not remove paying customers from care homes. 

[rascalman]

Proving good income is supposed to work. Lord I hope so. I have lived here 11 years. Not leaving period. 

Edited May 28, 2019 by rascalman

[LukKrueng]

2 hours ago, rexall said:

If Thailand is a Buddhist country, above and beyond Buddhist compassion, it is unfortunate the gov seems to lack the wisdom to realize that it cannot control every aspect of reality. This results in them becoming cranky when, as the OP says, people "trick" the system. If a system can be tricked, it is going to be tricked. Duh!  Trying to repress this results in draconian over-reach, implementing policies that cannot be elegantly enforced.  Without bothering to consider the unintended consequences, it in  turn generates lack of respect  in visitors, immigrants and citizens, and a loss of face in the global community. Sigh!

Thailand is not a Buddhist country. It is a sovereign country in which about 95% of the citizens are Buddhist by religious definition. And as in most countries, when a loophole is a law is found, there is an attempt to fix it . Duh! Sigh!

[PremiumLane]

I see the usual understanding and empathy from some of the TVF members. I am alright Jack so sod everyone else, and 'there must be more to this....'

 

You know why immigrants in other countries have more rights? Cos they fought for them and they stuck together. You lot just repeatedly roll over and let others get shafted until it is your turn. 

[tabarin]

9 hours ago, aussienam said:

The reality is IMO that the Thai establishment no longer wish for low end expat spenders, preferring for upper middle and high end income earning expats.  Health insurance is obviously an issue as is other issues that could burden the Thai economy - but I feel in the whole scheme of things that this would only account for a small percentage.  I get that having people here financially self sufficient is a good idea, but their requirements I feel are too rigid and with the new laws it makes those who have been doing the right thing all along being punished.  Of course there are those who have caused problems and hence the crackdown and changes.  But I feel that there may be a bigger strategy here to change the face of those who come here.  There is always the Philippines, Cambodia, Vietnam and probably a few other places as well that in time will cater better for expats and those needing care.   Sad for the lady though.  A bit of flexibility in circumstances like this would be good IMO.  

What are you talking about dude? They spend 85K a month on their mothers care. What do you call high end income? This is the perfect example, aside that they spend more to live a life themselves.

In Europe the requirement for certain visa's is less than 30,000 baht a month, Thailand is just stupid and insane, it is clear to see the majority left / is leaving.

Edited May 28, 2019 by tabarin

[seancbk]

The issue really is one of appropriate training for the immigration officers.   Most of them don't seem to know the rules themselves and simply apply their own version. 

The other thing I've never really heard of here is any mention of a high up level that people can go to for a reassessment of their situation. 

In this woman's case the 85,000 a month they are spending should be considered as income, although I also don't see why they don't use an interim step and put that money in an account as income then pay for her care from that account.  

[tabarin]

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

Exactly!

Your posting name says it all.

Complete nonsense, the mothers disease does not grant any disability allowance or whatever.
Only if you are lucky enough to have had a job before in life that would cover that later on.
 

1 hour ago, chuang said:

This has nothing to do with religion. 

Buddhism is not a religion, jees, people don't even know what they talk about do they?

Edited May 28, 2019 by tabarin

[Beggar]

3 hours ago, dcnx said:

Did you miss the part where they are already paying 80,000+ baht per month for the mothers care?

 

I’d love to see you save an extra $25k to waste when you’re already spending $2500 in addition to your own living expenses that are at least few thousand dollars more.

 

 

This is strange. If they transfer 80,000 Baht every month then they should get a retirement visa - only 65,000 are needed. And if you can spend 80,000 Baht a month a bank account with 800,000 Baht deposit should not be impossible. Somehow this story doesn't really make sense to me. Or these people behave in a manner that is hard to understand for me. 

[tabarin]

2 minutes ago, Beggar said:

This is strange. If they transfer 80,000 Baht every month then they should get a retirement visa - only 65,000 are needed. And if you can spend 80,000 Baht a month a bank account with 800,000 Baht deposit should not be impossible. Somehow this story doesn't really make sense to me. Or these people behave in a manner that is hard to understand for me. 

They pay for the mother, the article even says that. So hard to read right? To clear it up once again: THEY paid FOR the mother.

[Beggar]

Just now, tabarin said:

They pay for the mother, the article even says that. So hard to read right? To clear it up once again: THEY paid FOR the mother.

I understand this. But these payments have to be transferred to Thailand. And if they transfer 80,000 Baht every month to a Thai bank account it is enough for a retirement extension. 

[oslooskar]

10 minutes ago, tabarin said:

Buddhism is not a religion, jees, people don't even know what they talk about do they?

"Buddhism is a religion which teaches that the way to end suffering is by overcoming your desires."

"a religious teaching propagated by the Buddha and his followers, which declares that by destroying greed, hatred, and delusion, which are the causes of all suffering, people can attain perfect enlightenment"

 

"a religion and philosophic system of central and eastern Asia, founded in India in the 6th cent. b.c. by Buddha: it teaches that right thinking and self-denial will enable the soul to reach Nirvana, a divine state of release from misdirected desire"

 

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/buddhism

 

 

 

 

[Thingamabob]

Sorry, I don't believe this story. With very little effort or cost they could have easily avoided this.