UK Visit Visa for GF if Sponsor Separated But Still Married?

[Rolanddrums]

Hi, A little background info first :- I'm UK born citizen, over 50, living in Thailand most of the time in my owned condo on a retirement visa. I live here 24/7 with my 7 year old half Thai son (He's UK born to) and Thai GF of nearly 3 years. All of us want to go to My home in UK next year for 2 months holiday during Thai school holidays. My son attends International school Pattaya. My UK home is also owned exclusively by me. No-one lives there whilst I'm in Thailand btw. 

I separated with my Thai wife (Married in UK) 3 years ago, but are not divorced yet. I'm waiting for the 5 year separated before I apply for this btw. Yes I know can do now but different rule set. Please don't ask or suggest I divorce first . ..thanks.

 

My question is ...Is my GF likely to be refused a visit visa based on her sponsor (me) still being married but separated 3 years? Me my son and her live together in Thailand no problems, she is effectively his new mum .  Money, place to stay, length of relationship all good. Reason to return would be that it would put any future settlement visa at risk if she jumped and my financial help would cease. Also we all live in my Thai condo.

Edited June 5, 2019 by Rolanddrums

[theoldgit]

No, her application will be considered on its merits.

It’s her that that has to satisfy the ECO that her application is genuine, affordable and that, on the balance of probabilities, she will return home to Thailand.

The fact you live in Thailand most of the time together, assumingely in a relationship akin to marriage, will be in her favour.

Does she have any other ties, work maybe?

Do declare your personal circumstances, better to be upfront that have the ECO check the database and come across your wife’s Immigration history.

My current wife had three visit visas, two for six months and one for two years when she was my girlfriend, and I hadn’t got round to divorcing my ex.

 

 

 

 

[bluesky3000]

1 hour ago, theoldgit said:

No, her application will be considered on its merits.

It’s her that that has to satisfy the ECO that her application is genuine, affordable and that, on the balance of probabilities, she will return home to Thailand.

The fact you live in Thailand most of the time together, assumingely in a relationship akin to marriage, will be in her favour.

Does she have any other ties, work maybe?

Do declare your personal circumstances, better to be upfront that have the ECO check the database and come across your wife’s Immigration history.

My current wife had three visit visas, two for six months and one for two years when she was my girlfriend, and I hadn’t got round to divorcing my ex.

Yup it will be based on your thai gf merits

 

 

 

 

[Rolanddrums]

Ok thanks and a promising start. She hasn't had a proper previous job, only caring for children in/around her home. I provide her with 30k baht per month , which I have always paid her cash until now (Nearly 3 yrs already) but I'm considering switching to bank transfer from now on showing money coming from my Kaisikorn to hers and showing my name on statements of regular money coming in. Is this a good idea?  ..Not planning to go to UK for another 9 months yet anyway.

I am a company Director of 25 years of small company in UK.  My adult farrang son runs it in my absence 

Her immigration history is only that 5 years ago she wanted to go Sweden with sister of her mum for 3 month holiday but was refused because at that time her English was poor and she didn't work ( Just stayed at home looking after children....not hers btw). Oh also the home where she would stay didn't have a room free just for herself to. Is that a problem ? No holidays yet outside Thailand btw.

 

Edited June 5, 2019 by Rolanddrums

[KhaoYai]

I'm not suggesting you lie but I don't remember there being any questions on the application form about the sponsor's marital status - why even mention it?

[Rolanddrums]

Hi well I wouldn't mention it unless application form asks directly, but a copy of my passport shows I am married.

[7by7]

2 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

I'm not suggesting you lie but I don't remember there being any questions on the application form about the sponsor's marital status - why even mention it?

 Because he will be on record as previously sponsoring his wife, and UKVI will want to know what has happened to her and their relationship.

 

I remember way back in 2000 waiting at the embassy visa office (it was a different set up then) with my wife to submit her settlement application when a tearful girl came out of an interview room. She had been refused a fiance visa and didn't fully understand why. The refusal notice basically said that her fiance (sponsor) had successfully sponsored someone else for a fiance visa in the past, but she had not explained in her application what had happened to that previous relationship. She knew nothing of this previous relationship, by the way.

 

You may say that it's none of their business, but criminals do sponsor serial applicants to get people to the UK for illegal purposes: sometimes with the applicant's connivance, sometimes the applicant being an innocent victim.

 

The OP has nothing to hide, so he has nothing to fear in telling them about his previous relationship in his girlfriend's application. But if it isn't mentioned, she could easily be refused for the same reason that poor girl was 19 years ago.

 

 

 

 

[KhaoYai]

2 hours ago, Rolanddrums said:

Hi well I wouldn't mention it unless application form asks directly, but a copy of my passport shows I am married.

Really?  My passport says nothing about my marital status - are you refering to visas in your passport?

 

The fact that you've sponsored someone before should not really have any bearing on subsequent applications. If the British Embassy had any suspicions they could always check to see whether the person previously sponsored returned to Thailand. There was a time when I.O.'s at the B.E. would make a quick call if they had any queries. However, that is in 'perfect world' and as there is no right of appeal for a tourist visa, on balance, I would agree with 7by7's post above - not worth the risk but make sure you explain the situation fully. 

 

If it helps, I was in the same situation a few years ago and thinking back, I did tell them of my situation in a covering letter - my girlfriend got the visa.

[Rolanddrums]

Hi actually your right is doesn't state married in my passport but as mentioned will be on record. My wife left me and our son 3 years ago. AFAIK shes still living in UK with her UK BF. At time of split she had a 'Indef Leave to Remain Visa' but no UK passport. As a matter of interest how long are these valid for , forever?...thanks

Edited June 5, 2019 by Rolanddrums

[mlkik]

Reason to return to Thailand is what they are looking for.

If she has no property,no job and no proof of income it will be hard to prove she would have a reason to return to Thailand.

[Rolanddrums]

Well she lives with me and my son in my condo in Thailand . Also her income is from me monthly ...nearly 3 years now. I would think that's good reason to return. Her job if you like is taking care of me and my son. .. would that be sufficient? Proof of income will be her bank statement showing regular incomes from me. If she jumped ( She wouldnt) then income would stop to.  

[mlkik]

5 minutes ago, Rolanddrums said:

Well she lives with me and my son in my condo in Thailand . Also her income is from me monthly ...nearly 3 years now. I would think that's good reason to return. Her job if you like is taking care of me and my son. .. would that be sufficient? Proof of income will be her bank statement showing regular incomes from me. If she jumped ( She wouldnt) then income would stop to.  

It is your condo not hers. And taking care of you and your son will not be considered as a good reason to return.

I am just letting you know that the people who will approve/refuse the visa application do so very strictly and from personal experience can refuse an application even though we thought it was a dead cert.

[Rolanddrums]

Fair enough , so we need to consider other credible /valid possible reasons to return . Perhaps not the best reasons someone could have but are ok. Are any of these valid ( 7 by 7 perhaps you can confirm) :-

1) If I don't return my sponsor would stop his (track record) monthly 'wages' to me.

2) If I don't return it would jeopardise any future settlement visa I may apply for.

3) I don't own land or property but my Grandma and Aunties do.

4) I live with my BF in Thailand 24/7 . We have done nearly 3 yrs already.

 

Edited June 6, 2019 by Rolanddrums

[mlkik]

2 hours ago, Rolanddrums said:

Fair enough , so we need to consider other credible /valid possible reasons to return . Perhaps not the best reasons someone could have but are ok. Are any of these valid ( 7 by 7 perhaps you can confirm) :-

1) If I don't return my sponsor would stop his (track record) monthly 'wages' to me.

2) If I don't return it would jeopardise any future settlement visa I may apply for.

3) I don't own land or property but my Grandma and Aunties do.

4) I live with my BF in Thailand 24/7 . We have done nearly 3 

Numbers 1 , 2 and 3 are not relevent to her application for a visit visa.  Number 4 did not carry any weight when my girlfriend applied.

[KhaoYai]

ILR is as it says - Indefinite Leave to Remain = forever, she is no longer reliant on being married to a British citizen to maintain her visa status.

 

You live together in Thailand right? In that case I wouldn't worry too much about your girlfriend's 'reasons to return'. Instead, show that you are both settled in Thailand and have no intention of living in the UK at the moment - the visit is purely to see family and friends. In a covering letter you can prove your condo ownership and include a copy of your retirement visa.  There is nothing wrong with also stating that your may make a future application for settlement in the UK but personally, I would be careful how you word that.

 

Statements like 'Miss X knows the law and would not do anything to jeopardise any future visa applications' have been around for a long time now - I think ECO's are getting weary of them. However, something like 'we are an established couple and as I am a British citizen, we expect to be making many future visits to maintain contact with family and friends in the UK' may be a 'fresher' way to get the same theme across - so, focus on showing that you are an 'established couple'.

 

Its up to you but I would not be saying 'I give my girlfriend an allowance of 30K per month and she wouldn't want to lose that' - the ECO is likely to think the relationship is more about money than genuine. I would not mention that at all. You are trying to explain whay she doesn't work right? Just state that she takes care of your child and condo - a housewife. I would not mention the money at all. If there is evidence of her previous employment, show that and state that she gave up work to take care of you and your son.

 

Show your girlfriend has 'strong family ties' in Thailand - that can be contact with her own family, any reliance they have on her but also, as you live in Thailand, that includes you.

 

One thing I would guard against........get your salient points together and then edit and re-edit them. The shorter the covering letter, the more likely it is to be read - oh, and parargraph it.

 

P.S. If you have now or can make changes to get (as you have 9 months) - anything in both your names at your condo would be helpful.

Edited June 6, 2019 by KhaoYai

[KhaoYai]

10 minutes ago, mlkik said:

Numbers 1 , 2 and 3 are not relevent to her application for a visit visa.  Number 4 did not carry any weight when my girlfriend applied.

No. 2 is certainly relevant to a visit visa but as I explained above, care has to be taken as ECO's have heard it thousands of times.

 

No.4 again, is very relevant but its not good enough to simply state you live together 24/7.  Establishing firstly that you are a couple, in a genuine relationship and then that you are settled together in Thailand is a credible reason to return.

Edited June 6, 2019 by KhaoYai

[mlkik]

2 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

No. 2 is certainly relevant to a visit visa but as I explained above, care has to be taken as ECO's have heard it thousands of times.

 

No.4 again, is very relevant but its not good enough to simply state you live together 24/7.  Establishing firstly that you are a couple, in a genuine relationship and then that you are settled together in Thailand is a credible reason to return.

How is number 2 relevant. They are only interested in the current application not any possible applications in the future.

[KhaoYai]

19 minutes ago, mlkik said:

How is number 2 relevant. They are only interested in the current application not any possible applications in the future.

It is relevant because the applicant is stating that they intend making further applications in the future and would not do anything to prevent those applications from being sucessful e.g. fail to return.

 

In particular it is relevant to the girlfriend/fiancé of a British citizen who wishes to visit the UK and expects at some point to be making a settlement visa application. The intention is clear but I fear that ECO's have seen this too many times now.

 

Its been used on a great many visit visa applictaions that I'm aware of (on another forum).

[rasg]

 

3 hours ago, Rolanddrums said:

1) If I don't return my sponsor would stop his (track record) monthly 'wages' to me.

2) If I don't return it would jeopardise any future settlement visa I may apply for.

3) I don't own land or property but my Grandma and Aunties do.

4) I live with my BF in Thailand 24/7 . We have done nearly 3 yrs already.

 

Number 2 is on everybody's visa application and means nothing. The same for number 3. Be very careful how you word it if you intend using number 1. What will have the most relevance is number 4. You need to explain that you both intend returning to Thailand together and that your life is in Thailand. Anything showing that you have lived there for almost three years is relevant. House book? Bills in joint names. Lease in both names. etc etc. Be truthful about everything including the previous relataionship.

[Rolanddrums]

Very informative guys, many thanks. I'm slowly absorbing it all. Ok couple of questions.  Regarding the money I give her each month, is it worth switching to bank transfer from now on so it shows on her bank statements? Is it worth her providing bank statements at all?

All condo papers and bills my name only, however she gets umpteen things in post delivered here in her name. Evidence of that any good? ( Mostly small items of clothing, sometimes fruit etc.

[mlkik]

19 minutes ago, Rolanddrums said:

Very informative guys, many thanks. I'm slowly absorbing it all. Ok couple of questions.  Regarding the money I give her each month, is it worth switching to bank transfer from now on so it shows on her bank statements? Is it worth her providing bank statements at all?

All condo papers and bills my name only, however she gets umpteen things in post delivered here in her name. Evidence of that any good? ( Mostly small items of clothing, sometimes fruit etc.

She will need to prove an income and will also need to prove her finances with her bank statements to prove she can fund herself .A monthly bank transfer is the best method as she has no wage slips to prove employment.

Do not put in a lump sum as this will raise suspicions.

Edited June 6, 2019 by mlkik

[KhaoYai]

54 minutes ago, Rolanddrums said:

Very informative guys, many thanks. I'm slowly absorbing it all. Ok couple of questions.  Regarding the money I give her each month, is it worth switching to bank transfer from now on so it shows on her bank statements? Is it worth her providing bank statements at all?

All condo papers and bills my name only, however she gets umpteen things in post delivered here in her name. Evidence of that any good? ( Mostly small items of clothing, sometimes fruit etc.

Both I and RASG have advised you against using the payment you give her. It is of no use whatsoever and is potentially harmful - believe me, I've seen it used in refusals. You have time to get things changed into either joint names or her name - although joint names can be difficult in Thailand. Only a small thing but does she have a driving licence? If so, change that to your address.  You should have a house book for your condo I believe - can you not add her to that - someone else will have to advise you on that though.

[KhaoYai]

43 minutes ago, mlkik said:

She will need to prove an income and will also need to prove her finances with her bank statements to prove she can fund herself.

She does not have to prove any income whatsoever. The OP is her sponsor, its him that has to show he can fund the entire trip.  As for living, stating that she is a housewife and they live together should be enough.

 

My ex was a student when she got her first tourist visa - no income at all.

Edited June 6, 2019 by KhaoYai

[mlkik]

1 hour ago, KhaoYai said:

She does not have to prove any income whatsoever. The OP is her sponsor, its him that has to show he can fund the entire trip.  As for living, stating that she is a housewife and they live together should be enough.

 

My ex was a student when she got her first tourist visa - no income at all.

My girlfriend was refused a visa and the reason stated was the person who applies for the visa has to prove their financial status and not the sponsor.

It is all about the reason for returning to Thailand. No job,no money,no property equalls a good chance of refusal.

Do not give this person false hope!

 

 

[virtualm]

I had the same problem 2 years ago but it's not required.

 

The UK Visa form does not ask for your marital status, the visit visa is all about her, and your just the sponsor. I've just checked the one I helped my Thai gf do in April this year. The only section where you might be mentioned (as a sponsor) is in the Income & Expenditure section - "who is paying towards the costs" and even in the drop down list boyfriend or partner are not an option, so you just have to choose - "Someone I know".

 

For the record, I was separated from my ex the first time my Thai gf applied for her UK visit visa back in 2017 and she got the 6 months no problems, I was going through a divorce and it was not absolute until last year as it took ages... So, from my experience, it's not requested and neither are you asked to provide your marital status.  Agents might ask for your marital status, but it's not required, and anyway I would stay away from agents IMO.

 

Remember, it's all about her, and whether her trip can be funded and 100% that she will return to Thailand. That's all immigration are worried about.

 

 

Good luck.

[theoldgit]

My girlfriend was refused a visa and the reason stated was the person who applies for the visa has to prove their financial status and not the sponsor.

Whilst not doubting what you say for one moment, I find that very hard to believe, I don’t suppose you still have that refusal note do you, I would be interested to read it.

If what you were told was policy then there would be no point in anybody providing financial support to an applicant of limited funds.

I know numerous people who have provided sponsorship to applicants with no cash of their own, including my wife, who when she was my girlfriend, in similar circumstances to the OP, was issued with three visit visas on the back of my financial sponsorship.

I would add that if no account is taken of the financial status of sponsors, why on earth would the UKVI suggest that financial sponsors provide proof of their ability to provide that financial support?

I would however agree that proof of ties to your home country is equally important.

 

 

 

 

[Rolanddrums]

Hi , so some conflicting opinions here. Ok we all agree be open in my sponsorship letter about married but divorced. This wont be a problem. Show my ability to fund trip (My bank statements and my accommodation house book in UK.)

Get her to to stress the point that we live as a family 3 years already in Thailand. Include proof of this if poss . ( Bills /Driving License etc in joint or her name at our condo might be difficult to get.)

Provide copy my retirement visa(s) and copy my house book in Thailand to .

Reason to return she is effectively my wife and housewife. I take care of her and her family to. She has strong family ties

Showing her bank statements + regular income from me is probably not advisable nor required ? I feel showing her bank statements with some money in ( For say 6 months) may be beneficial?

Edited June 6, 2019 by Rolanddrums

[claffey]

Any contract you have signed here that is dated beyond the return date of your trip will help. So a contract of employment, rental lease, car loan etc..

 

Also, you have stated that your son is enrolled in school here. So if you pay the fees for the following year, before your holiday, and get a receipt, that will prove that you intend to come back.

 

Finally, if your girlfriend is of a similar age as you it helps. And wear conservative clothes when you visit the embassy. Sorry to be blunt but that's the way it works, Cover up any tattoos etc too.

 

Good luck..

[mlkik]

25 minutes ago, Rolanddrums said:

 

Showing her bank statements + regular income from me is probably not advisable nor required ? I feel showing her bank statements with some money in ( For say 6 months) may be beneficial?

Please register and begin filling the application form online and you will see there is a section which asks about any property the person applying has and there is also a section which asks about the income and what savings the person applying has.

For the people saying you do not need to provide this information please explain what you would write in answer to these questions.

Edited June 7, 2019 by mlkik

[Rolanddrums]

Hi yes showing we intend coming back to the school (We do) might help but payment for next term would be after we come back. She can dress nicely no problem . She doesn't have any tattoos . Good I dont like!  She is young (23) but not the usual air brain/ drinker etc. Far from it ...much better than my Ex who is 8 years older.

Just found 2 x Homepro receipts in HER name with our condo delivery address for some furniture we bought last month...better than nothing . We will try to gather more in next few months.

Edited June 7, 2019 by Rolanddrums