Dual citizen child (Thai/USA) needs passport to open bank account??

[singburisam]

I just wasted two (2) hours at a rural branch of Kasikorn Bank.  My son, a Thai citizen, was unable to open a Thai bank account because he had no U.S. passport to present.  My son has dual nationality.

 

Although irrelevant to the question, I think, the purpose of the account is to receive U.S. Social Security direct deposits.  My son is already receiving such payments but will need a new different account upon his 18th birthday.  (Years ago, a special account available only at Bangkok Bank was required but now the U.S.G. will deposit into other banks, if they support "International Direct Deposit."  I think almost all ordinary savings accounts WILL allow those Direct Deposits; is that correct?)

 

I'm not a fetishist for strict adherence to rules, but answering NO when the Thai bank asks "Are you a U.S. citizen?" probably will NOT work in our case: Since the account is for receiving funds from the U.S.G. available only to U.S. persons, I think we'd better answer YES!  They asked for proof of U.S. citizenship; we presented a Birth Certificate and a SocSec card.  The bank wanted to help us; I think their software insisted on a U.S. passport number; and they couldn't proceed without it.  My son was born in Thailand, has never left Thailand, and doesn't yet have a passport.

 

Can someone well-connected at Kasikorn Bank comment on this, please?  Will Krung-Thai Bank have a similar problem?  I prefer to deal with Bangkok Bank but, for irrelevant reasons, this is not a good option in this case.

 

(Punchline:  After spending TWO hours at the bank before finally concluding that an account was not possible, they asked my son to sign an affidavit they had prepared; an affidavit in which -- to allow their software to proceed -- they had answered No/No/No to the three "Are you a U.S. person?" questions.  Why in heaven's name did they want that signature since we were not, after all, opening an account?  They withdraw the request when I pointed out that the No/No/No answers meant they were asking my son to commit perjury!)

Edited June 11, 2019 by singburisam

[Date Masamune]

Why can’t you get him his US passport if he has dual US /Thai citizenships ?

[singburisam]

1 hour ago, Date Masamune said:

Why can’t you get him his US passport if he has dual US /Thai citizenships ?

The Thaivisa.com we've learned to love.  ????  Useless non-answers.

 

My son is in school.  We live far away from any U.S. consulate.  Passport applications must be made in person, and require considerable documentation.  I don't like to drive at night.  He'd have to take TWO days off from school and HOPE his application is accepted immediately.

 

The SocSec money has already been delayed.  Every day of further delay at our end is a day of further delay at their end.

 

Capische?

 

If the passport is mandatory, we will get the passport.  But my impression is that this was a confusion by Kasikorn.  What about other banks?

 

By the way:  It certainly IS a confusion by Kasikorn Bank.  As I pointed out to them, some people who are NOT U.S. citizens ARE required to answer YES to the U.S. Person question.  For example, green-card holders.

Edited June 11, 2019 by singburisam

[Date Masamune]

Sounds like time to get your sons passport.
Good luck with Bangkok Bank either have an account there for years manager greets me by name still can’t withdraw a single sating without passport.
Thais are obsessed with signed copies who knows what they do with them.

[asiaexpat]

All my children are dual US/Thai nationals and when they opened bank accounts (in recent times) they had to provide their US Passport to both Bangkok Bank and Kasikorn. It seems to have something to do with US tax and or money laundering rules placed on all banks. My wife even had to submit her green card to get an account, go figure. 

[manarak]

44 minutes ago, asiaexpat said:

All my children are dual US/Thai nationals and when they opened bank accounts (in recent times) they had to provide their US Passport to both Bangkok Bank and Kasikorn. It seems to have something to do with US tax and or money laundering rules placed on all banks. My wife even had to submit her green card to get an account, go figure. 

err... ??

how did the bank know they are American if they presented Thai ID ?

[ThomasThBKK]

Because you have to answer if you are a US citizten, this is all because of FATCA - no bank nowadays like to even have US customers for that reason. They all need to report their US customer to the US...you will be out of luck without a us passport imo, i would open as many accounts as you can for u and ur kid, it's only ever getting harder for us citizens. Even wealth/private banking stays away from us citizens nowadays.

Edited June 11, 2019 by ThomasThBKK

[Pib]

My wife is a dual US/Thai citizen...so is a neighbor. They both opened Bangkok Bank direct deposit accounts over the last two years to receive US social security benefit payments. In neither case did they have to present their US passports to open the accounts...nor did they have to complete the FATCA questionnaire. I know this for sure as I, a US farang, accompanied both to the branch in the HQ Bangkok Bank building on Silom Rd in Bangkok to help open the accounts. Saw and heard every second of the account opening process. Both took along their US passports in case they were asked for them (which they were not) but only needed to present their Thai ID cards just as a Thai-only citizen.

[Pib]

Because you have to answer if you are a US citizten, this is all because of FATCA - no bank nowadays like to even have US customers for that reason. They all need to report their US customer to the US...you will be out of luck without a us passport imo, i would open as many accounts as you can for u and ur kid, it's only ever getting harder for us citizens. Even wealth/private banking stays away from us citizens nowadays.

I'm a US citizen. Ever since FATCA was fully implemented several years ago I've had no problem opening new Thai bank accounts. Yes I must present my US passport and the bank has me complete their simple FATCA forms which take a few minutes to complete...but being a US citizen had no impact on me being able to open the account.

Yes in some countries FATCA has made it harder for US citizens to open a bank account but generally in Thailand it has not...except for a branch here and there. But there is a fair amount of myth that it has. And of course those Thai bank branches that really don't want to have any farang customers (US or not) help feed that myth.

FATCA is now on autopilot in Thai banks...it's really not an issue in opening an account...just a few more pieces of simple and easy paperwork. Thai banks have adjusted.

[asiaexpat]

11 hours ago, manarak said:

err... ??

how did the bank know they are American if they presented Thai ID ?

They had to answer the question about US citizenship. I was with each of them and since they look farang and I was there the question was immediately asked. I accompanied my wife to SCB to open a new fixed account and they asked if she had a green card when they saw me (even though she has other accounts with them.) It was no problem to provide passports so they did. 

Edited June 12, 2019 by asiaexpat

[Berkshire]

17 hours ago, singburisam said:

The Thaivisa.com we've learned to love.  ????  Useless non-answers.

 

My son is in school.  We live far away from any U.S. consulate.  Passport applications must be made in person, and require considerable documentation.  I don't like to drive at night.  He'd have to take TWO days off from school and HOPE his application is accepted immediately.

 

The SocSec money has already been delayed.  Every day of further delay at our end is a day of further delay at their end.

 

Capische?

 

If the passport is mandatory, we will get the passport.  But my impression is that this was a confusion by Kasikorn.  What about other banks?

 

By the way:  It certainly IS a confusion by Kasikorn Bank.  As I pointed out to them, some people who are NOT U.S. citizens ARE required to answer YES to the U.S. Person question.  For example, green-card holders.

Solution: Have your wife take your son to the bank, perhaps a different branch.  She just tells them that she wants to open an account for her son and flash out his Thai ID.  Should be done in about 5 minutes. 

[singburisam]

1 hour ago, Berkshire said:

Solution: Have your wife take your son to the bank, perhaps a different branch.  She just tells them that she wants to open an account for her son and flash out his Thai ID.  Should be done in about 5 minutes. 

????  ALL of these bank branches would be happy to help us answer NO to the question and open an account for my son.

 

But something tells me that U.S. Government computers might note that the account does not have the YES-U.S. paperwork and be reluctant to deposit the SocSec payments there.  Not to mention sentencing my son to 20 years in Sing-Sing or whatever the penalty is for U.S. persons that answer "No."

[Berkshire]

3 minutes ago, singburisam said:

????  ALL of these bank branches would be happy to help us answer NO to the question and open an account for my son.

 

But something tells me that U.S. Government computers might note that the account does not have the YES-U.S. paperwork and be reluctant to deposit the SocSec payments there.  Not to mention sentencing my son to 20 years in Sing-Sing or whatever the penalty is for U.S. persons that answer "No."

What I was alluding to was if your wife took your son to the bank, the question of US citizenship shouldn't even come up.  It's not something banks would normally ask their Thai clients.  Of course with your name, who knows.  But Thais wouldn't automatically assume an English name meant he was an American.

[higgy88]

We had the same problem with Bangkok Bank opening up an account for our Thai/US daughter a few years ago.  I stayed home and the wife went with the daughter to open the bank account.  The bank officer asked if she was a US citizen (because of her name) and then wanted her US passport, but it had expired as we had no need to use it any time soon.  "Sorry, we cannot open an account for her", to which my wife (who is not your typical passive Thai female) asked (demanded?) to see the manager, who had no problem in opening the account for her as a Thai citizen.  My wife can be quite assertive.

 

Fast forward to now, where she is currently a student at a Thai government university.  The system at this school is that all students must have a Krung Thai bank account, where her student number is linked to her bank account number and the ATM/debit card is her student card.  Registration for each term is all done online, and all the school fees are automatically deducted from this account.  When she was accepted to the school and paid the confirmation fee and was given a student number, the bank account application was pre printed and was shown to her to review and make sure all the information was correct, like the spelling of her name, home address, birthday, etc and then sign it.  On this form, it was preprinted "no" to the question "are you a US citizen".  She pointed out to the teacher that she was in fact a US citizen.  The teacher said she needed to sign it or she would not be able to register for classes, but he would get back to her on that.  Of course he did not get back to her and that was the last she ever heard about it.

 

She had also collected SSI benefits as a minor child until she turned 18, or finished high school, whichever came last.  I had set up a custodial account for her in the US for this money.  She still had about 4 months after she turned 18 before she would finish high school, but I could no longer act as her representative payee as she was considered an adult at 18 by the federal govt.  Unfortunately, the state where her custodial account was held considered 21 to the the age of adulthood, so what ended up happening was that SS sent the checks by snail mail to her in Thailand, where she endorsed it and sent it back to the US by snail mail to be deposited into her custodial account.  One check did in fact get lost, and it took more than 6 months for that check to be replaced, and it ended up being sent to the US consulate in Chiang Mai and being mailed to us by them.  I don't know if this is your similar to your situation, but this is what happened to us.

[manarak]

21 hours ago, singburisam said:

The Thaivisa.com we've learned to love.  ????  Useless non-answers.

 

My son is in school.  We live far away from any U.S. consulate.  Passport applications must be made in person, and require considerable documentation.  I don't like to drive at night.  He'd have to take TWO days off from school and HOPE his application is accepted immediately.

 

The SocSec money has already been delayed.  Every day of further delay at our end is a day of further delay at their end.

 

Capische?

 

If the passport is mandatory, we will get the passport.  But my impression is that this was a confusion by Kasikorn.  What about other banks?

 

By the way:  It certainly IS a confusion by Kasikorn Bank.  As I pointed out to them, some people who are NOT U.S. citizens ARE required to answer YES to the U.S. Person question.  For example, green-card holders.

there is no confusion.

"US person" is not the same as "US citizen".

 

[singburisam]

5 hours ago, higgy88 said:

...

Fast forward to now, where she is currently a student at a Thai government university.  The system at this school is that all students must have a Krung Thai bank account, where her student number is linked to her bank account number and the ATM/debit card is her student card. ...

... She still had about 4 months after she turned 18 before she would finish high school, but I could no longer act as her representative payee as she was considered an adult at 18 by the federal govt.....I don't know if this is your similar to your situation, but this is what happened to us.

Story is EXTREMELY similar.  My other child has graduated from University, where a KrungThai bank account was required.

 

And yes, my son has been receiving SocSec for several years already; he's approaching 18th birthday and needs the new account. I don't know how to set up a U.S. bank account remotely, but asking SocSec for checks and cashing them in Thailand is an option.  IIRC the delay and service charges on checks will be high.

 

What some responders have overlooked is that the U.S.G. will be paying monthly money into this account: money my son is entitled to only because he is a U.S. person.  If we let the bank answer "No" on our behalf, I am afraid that the U.S.G. computer systems may be "smart" enough to detect that the account hasn't filed the required W-9 tax form, or whatever it is.  Is my fear unreasonable?

[Heng]

Because US FATCA still rules, just as it were Roman times.   Hopefully the Chinese will have a better tribute system.  

 

You're only stuck if you insist on receiving your SSA funds into your Thai bank account.   Your son, or any Thai dual national can simply open a Thai bank account with his/her Thai ID card AND answer no to all of the US citizen questions.   That is, you CAN do that, but it would be illegal, but so is speeding and not paying 100% of your taxes. It's a pain everywhere, in any country whose banking system has a large portion of their funds routed through New York (which is most banks in the world), not just in Thailand.   If your son was born in Thailand, he has an advantage over other dual citizens as if he wants to open up accounts offshore in the future, his passport won't 'declare' that he is a "US person" unlike Thai dual citizens like myself who were born stateside.   But again, he would have to be okay with 'checking no' to the US questions.   

 

What folks in my parents (also dual citizens) generation do is have their SSA funds direct deposited into their US bank accounts.   Just keep the bank accounts, assets and tax bases separate.  That way there is no question of the US tax authorities looking at family funds in Thailand or anywhere else and raising their debt laden eyebrows.

 

 

Edited June 13, 2019 by Heng

[higgy88]

My situation happened about 3 years ago.  My daughter recently turned 21 and has closed her custodial account in the US and had the money transferred to her Bangkok Bank account, which she will now use to pay for the rest of her education herself.  But since it is now over $10K, she will also have to start filing her own the FBAR form.  We have very deliberately kept all the money in her accounts well under the 10K limit so she has never had to file.

 

When my daughter was getting close to her 18th birthday, we got a letter from SSA saying her benefits would stop when she turned 18 unless she was still a full time student, and it included a form that the school had to fill out verifying that she was still a student, how many hours per week she had classes, the date she would finish, etc.  We had the school fill it out and sign and we sent it in.  We got a follow up letter saying her benefits had been extended, but would be sent directly to her.  I don't remember any kind of form for having the money direct deposited into another bank account, and because it was only going to be for a relatively short time I didn't bother.  The checks just started coming by snail mail, and as I said, we just resent the checks back to the US to be deposited into her custodial account so I do not know what the costs would have been to have had the checks deposited to the bank here in Thailand.

 

I think your options are pretty limited.  Just do the same as we did and have the checks sent here, or try to open an account here to have the checks direct deposited, either by getting him a US passport and doing it the right way, or having the bank just check "no" to the question "are you a US citizen" on the application, which I personally believe is not a big deal if you can get the bank to do it.  I can give you my reasons for that opinion, but it would take too long for me to type.   I guess I just do not share your fear,  mainly because of our $10K limit on being required to file the FBAR report,  but then you need to do what you are comfortable with.  

 

 

 

[singburisam]

Problem solved!  We just got the required account, without presenting passport, at Bangkok Bank.  Thanks to all who responded; it was from the responses that I confirmed what I already suspected: BKK Bank, our favorite, was our best chance.  (Never mind the slightly confusing reason I was trying to do it at Kasikorn Bank instead.)