Democrats defend policies to reshape U.S. economy as first debate gets under way

[bristolboy]

3 hours ago, beechguy said:

Let me clarify a bit. Your correct, that 3 years should be a 5, late in 2010 through 2014 was when prices were higher. Do I blame Obama for that? No, but it didn't help that he and fellow Democrats were resistant to drilling and pipelines. https://www.gasbuddy.com/Charts

 

Insurance, I have better and less expensive coverage now, than 2016 and before during the Obama years. Still not as good as 2008 and before, but maybe we'll get there. More government isn't the answer.

 

Taxes, improved tax situation now domestically, but all I've heard from Democrats is repealing the tax breaks, nothing about reigning in spending, etc. I'm in the U.S. now for family issues, but spent a number of years OCONUS, and legally paid very little if any Federal Income Tax. If AOC, Warren others have their way, I'll just leave again, screw them.

 

Lies, you bet, and no shortage. Free health care, nope, not going to happen without stealing somebody else's money. Free college tuition? The same.

 

I don't believe all of the government numbers, but at 3.7% Unemployment, 3.1% GDP, Consumer Confidence levels good, something must be going good.

 

So bottom line, what do the Democrats have to offer me, and millions of others, that work for a living? Not a damn thing.

As I noted earlier, unless you can prove the claims about your personal situation are true, why bring them up? And even then, who knows what your personal situation is. Ya think government policies should be based on what benefits you? Ask not what you can do for your country, but rather what your country can do for you. Is that how it goes?

As for free health care, the usual nonsense. The USA has by far the most expensive health care in the world. And what do you get for your money? A health care system that's almost the worst in the economically fully developed nations.

Virtually all other developed nations manage to provide either tuition free university level education or much lower cost education. And their students don't start their working life with big debts to pay off. The kind of debts that discourage entrepeneuralism.  In fact, the USA now has the lowest level of social mobility of all the economically developed nations. Which is why the American Dream is now be born to a rich daddy like Fred Trump. So you can do really stupid things and not face the consequences.

One thing that's "going good" for the nation's economy is massive deficit spending. Naturally that's a big stimulus. John Maynard Keynes could have told you that. Funny how right wingers were opposed to it in the wake of the great recession when the economy was in peril but have no problem with it when it comes to making huge tax cuts that overwhelmingly benefit the wealthy.

 

[blazes]

48 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

 

Virtually all other developed nations manage to provide either tuition free university level education or much lower cost education. And their students don't start their working life with big debts to pay off. The kind of debts that discourage entrepeneuralism. 

 

 

Which "developed nations" presently provide "tuition-free university level education"??  As far as the UK is concerned, it was Mrs Thatcher who abolished free tuition. Most UK universities today charge £9,500 per annum in fees. 

 

Short of closing down about 75% of the "universities" that have mushroomed in the last 30 years, the UK will never be able to return to a tuition-free environment.

[Tug]

20 hours ago, BobBKK said:

I don't see one great candidate. The Dems are all over the place when beating Trump 'should be' easy. Warren would never survive the scrutiny on her false 'heritage' claims that got her a leg up in her previous career. Biden?  he's a dinosaur but probably the best bet as people like boring safety. 'I am Spartacus Booker'?  Nah

I don’t know about that Donald survives as a scofflaw and accused rapist personally I’d like to get something in return for my taxes as for the lady’s anyone of them would be far better than Donald imo but masoginy is alive and well unfortunately 

[bristolboy]

44 minutes ago, blazes said:

 

Which "developed nations" presently provide "tuition-free university level education"??  As far as the UK is concerned, it was Mrs Thatcher who abolished free tuition. Most UK universities today charge £9,500 per annum in fees. 

 

Short of closing down about 75% of the "universities" that have mushroomed in the last 30 years, the UK will never be able to return to a tuition-free environment.

Thanks for finding the one nation that's nearly as bad, and in some ways worse than the USA. Tuition is even higher in USA but more scholarships on offer. Here's a list of EU countries that offer tuition free university education. Some of them even give stipends to the students.

https://www.study.eu/article/study-in-europe-for-free-or-low-tuition-fees

[blazes]

13 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Thanks for finding the one nation that's nearly as bad, and in some ways worse than the USA. Tuition is even higher in USA but more scholarships on offer. Here's a list of EU countries that offer tuition free university education. Some of them even give stipends to the students.

https://www.study.eu/article/study-in-europe-for-free-or-low-tuition-fees

I can't be bothered to go through every country's practices, but I did look at France and you can see from this link that things are beginning to change.  

If you are a citizen of the EU+ you will be charged nothing or very little.  If however you are a foreigner, you will be charged heftily from this September on.

As the link points out, all students at private universities are charged huge amounts.

 

https://www.study.eu/article/tuition-fees-in-france

 

If you want to go to a GOOD university in la France, like the Sorbonne or Ecole Normale Superieur, you will pay an arm and a leg since they are private.

Here is a link that may help your argument:

https://www.4icu.org/fr/a-z/

[bristolboy]

5 minutes ago, blazes said:

I can't be bothered to go through every country's practices, but I did look at France and you can see from this link that things are beginning to change.  

If you are a citizen of the EU+ you will be charged nothing or very little.  If however you are a foreigner, you will be charged heftily from this September on.

As the link points out, all students at private universities are charged huge amounts.

 

https://www.study.eu/article/tuition-fees-in-france

 

If you want to go to a GOOD university in la France, like the Sorbonne or Ecole Normale Superieur, you will pay an arm and a leg since they are private.

Here is a link that may help your argument:

https://www.4icu.org/fr/a-z/

I don't think my argument needs help. You asked for which developed nations offer free tuition. And it's not relevant that they charge those from outside the EU more.  And only a small fraction of American university students go to elite institutions. Most attend community college or state universities. And still go into debt.

[blazes]

43 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

I don't think my argument needs help. You asked for which developed nations offer free tuition. And it's not relevant that they charge those from outside the EU more.  And only a small fraction of American university students go to elite institutions. Most attend community college or state universities. And still go into debt.

Squire, I think your argument does need some help, if only because you swat to one side the not insignificant fact that the best universities are almost entirely private and cost Harvard-type prices to get in.

Sliding off to Community Colleges hardly helps your argument.  In fact free tuition at  CCs may well be economically the smart thing to do if it helps the US become more competitive in areas that have fallen behind  in recent times, such as blue-collar trades.

 

Never mind.  We all get where your mind is at (I think).

[dcutman]

The democrats really need to find another 2 dozen candidates, none of the ones running now have even a snow balls chance in hell of getting 270 electoral votes.

[BobBKK]

17 hours ago, bristolboy said:

 

Ethnicity not a factor in Elizabeth Warren’s rise in law

"In the most exhaustive review undertaken of Elizabeth Warren’s professional history, the Globe found clear evidence, in documents and interviews, that her claim to Native American ethnicity was never considered by the Harvard Law faculty, which voted resoundingly to hire her, or by those who hired her to four prior positions at other law schools. At every step of her remarkable rise in the legal profession, the people responsible for hiring her saw her as a white woman.

The Globe examined hundreds of documents, many of them never before available, and reached out to all 52 of the law professors who are still living and were eligible to be in that Pound Hall room at Harvard Law School."

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2018/09/01/did-claiming-native-american-heritage-actually-help-elizabeth-warren-get-ahead-but-complicated/wUZZcrKKEOUv5Spnb7IO0K/story.html

You miss the point. It's unconscious, like name dropping, no records but it influences. NVM I know it's hard to overcome your confirmation bias and you really believe she just 'mentioned it' for no 'particular reason' lol.

[Tug]

27 minutes ago, dcutman said:

The democrats really need to find another 2 dozen candidates, none of the ones running now have even a snow balls chance in hell of getting 270 electoral votes.

Oh I don’t know about that each and every oun was far more articulate than Donald sorry but imo Donald’s in deep trouble he is a laughingstock on the international stage 

[BobBKK]

Just now, Tug said:

Oh I don’t know about that each and every oun was far more articulate than Donald sorry but imo Donald’s in deep trouble he is a laughingstock on the international stage 

Trump wasn't on the stage. It will be a very interesting race 2020 but I don't think he's the laughing stock your TV wants you to believe.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

30 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

Trump wasn't on the stage. It will be a very interesting race 2020 but I don't think he's the laughing stock your TV wants you to believe.

 

I think the laughing has moved over to stomach turning disgust.

 

To keep his base he needs to keep spewing hate and division, he’s a stuck record that the vast majority of decent people want rid of.

[dcutman]

25 minutes ago, Tug said:

Oh I don’t know about that each and every oun was far more articulate than Donald sorry but imo Donald’s in deep trouble he is a laughingstock on the international stage 

Your opinion is no different than any other that is blinded by Trump hate.

Only a fool actually believes any one of these policies these candidates keep preaching about have any chance at all of passing through both houses of congress. Not to mention the (lack) support of the majority of Americans.

[user68677878]

Like Trump- they all have IQs lower than frig temperature- no genius amongst that lot.

[Basil B]

On 6/27/2019 at 4:54 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

I like Klobuchar, she’s extremely bright, articulate and, to my mind, right on so many issues, but I don’t yet see her as the candidate.

 

Warren’s platform of proposals is to my mind solid and substantially addresses the economic and power imbalances that plague the nation.

 

But I want to hear more from other candidates and I want to see who’s willing and able to distil the best policies from across all candidates into a single platform.

 

I’m very much looking forward to hearing Buttigieg speak.

Can you really see America electing a woman in a two horse race up against a misogynistic fool even when half the voters are women?

[bristolboy]

2 hours ago, BobBKK said:

You miss the point. It's unconscious, like name dropping, no records but it influences. NVM I know it's hard to overcome your confirmation bias and you really believe she just 'mentioned it' for no 'particular reason' lol.

Rather, in your case, lack of confirmation bias. The facts are clearly against you. As is the fact that she had an extraordinarily distinguished career as a legal scholar.

"Warren is a graduate of the University of Houston and Rutgers Law School, and has taught law at several universities, including the University of Houston, the University of Texas at Austin, the University of Pennsylvania, and Harvard University. She was one of the most cited professors in the field of commercial law before she began her political career. She is the author of three and coauthor of six books, both academic and for a general audience."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Warren

Edited June 28, 2019 by bristolboy

[bristolboy]

12 hours ago, blazes said:

 

You are offering us the price of a barrel of oil at WTI prices.  Which rarely reflects accurately the ups and downs of the price at the pump.

Anyone who knows the price of a barrel of oil at any one time will also be able to gauge whether he is being ripped off (or not) at the pump as he drives past familiar gas stations in his own town.

Actually gasoline prices do correlate very closely with the price of oil. You have some memory of gasoline prices going down when oil prices were going up. Or vice versa?

[blazes]

13 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Actually gasoline prices do correlate very closely with the price of oil. You have some memory of gasoline prices going down when oil prices were going up. Or vice versa?

 

In my neck of the woods I have noticed, over several decades living in the same place, that while the oil price may go up on (say) July 1st, the price at the pump will go up on (say) July 4th. 

Whereas, when the oil price goes down on (say) July 1st, the price at the pump may go down, with luck, on July 21.

(Of course, this discussion omits entirely the effect of taxes in particular regions, not to mention the moronic carbon tax being levied in many countries.)

[bristolboy]

4 hours ago, blazes said:

Squire, I think your argument does need some help, if only because you swat to one side the not insignificant fact that the best universities are almost entirely private and cost Harvard-type prices to get in.

Sliding off to Community Colleges hardly helps your argument.  In fact free tuition at  CCs may well be economically the smart thing to do if it helps the US become more competitive in areas that have fallen behind  in recent times, such as blue-collar trades.

 

Never mind.  We all get where your mind is at (I think).

Actually, you're wrong. Unlike private elite universities in Europe, in the USA the elite schools have plenty of money in their endowments for scholarships. It's actually at the States' higher education system level where tuition costs have skyrocketed and funding has been slashed. That slashing thanks mostly to Republican governors and legislatures. It used to be that state systems provided a good education at a very low and subsidized cost. Not any more.

[Thainesss]

15 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Actually, you're wrong.

 

Read all 4 pages here and all you do is take swipes at other posters trying to disprove everything they say, without providing an original thought of your own. 

 

The dem field is an absolute embarrassment right now, and I don’t see not a one that as any position that is mainstream enough to get enough votes to win. 

 

More time campaigning for illegal immigrant healthcare. Raising middle class taxes. Abortion on demand, paid by taxpayers. Vilifying gun owners and members of the NRA. Reparations. Decriminalizing illegal border crossing. On and on and on. 

 

The left is tripping over itself to be the most “progressive” candidate and practically serving up Trumps 2020 win on a silver platter. 

 

If the election was held tomorrow, I’d wager an easy $10k on trump winning again. It’s all rather comical really. 

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Thainesss said:

 

Read all 4 pages here and all you do is take swipes at other posters trying to disprove everything they say, without providing an original thought of your own. 

 

The dem field is an absolute embarrassment right now, and I don’t see not a one that as any position that is mainstream enough to get enough votes to win. 

 

More time campaigning for illegal immigrant healthcare. Raising middle class taxes. Abortion on demand, paid by taxpayers. Vilifying gun owners and members of the NRA. Reparations. Decriminalizing illegal border crossing. On and on and on. 

 

The left is tripping over itself to be the most “progressive” candidate and practically serving up Trumps 2020 win on a silver platter. 

 

If the election was held tomorrow, I’d wager an easy $10k on trump winning again. It’s all rather comical really. 

Hilarious.

Go ahead the think that, that "trump" is a shoo in.

That's playing perfectly into the hands of the majority of decent Americans that want to kick out that ridiculous and damaging demagogue. 

Edited June 28, 2019 by Jingthing

[BobBKK]

22 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I think the laughing has moved over to stomach turning disgust.

 

To keep his base he needs to keep spewing hate and division, he’s a stuck record that the vast majority of decent people want rid of.

Then you won't have any problem in 2020 but I would not count your chickens.

[BobBKK]

18 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Hilarious.

Go ahead the think that, that "trump" is a shoo in.

That's playing perfectly into the hands of the majority of decent Americans that want to kick out that ridiculous and damaging demagogue. 

He's certainly not a shoe-in but the Dems need to modify some of their policies if they are to win. At the moment they are competing to see who is the crazier - health care for illegals?  madness!

[bristolboy]

20 hours ago, Thainesss said:

 

Read all 4 pages here and all you do is take swipes at other posters trying to disprove everything they say, without providing an original thought of your own. 

 

The dem field is an absolute embarrassment right now, and I don’t see not a one that as any position that is mainstream enough to get enough votes to win. 

 

More time campaigning for illegal immigrant healthcare. Raising middle class taxes. Abortion on demand, paid by taxpayers. Vilifying gun owners and members of the NRA. Reparations. Decriminalizing illegal border crossing. On and on and on. 

 

The left is tripping over itself to be the most “progressive” candidate and practically serving up Trumps 2020 win on a silver platter. 

 

If the election was held tomorrow, I’d wager an easy $10k on trump winning again. It’s all rather comical really. 

I think by 'original" you mean "false:. I'm trying to be sorry that exposing the falsity of your beliefs  discomfits you. 

Edited June 29, 2019 by bristolboy

[roobaa01]

the dem clown car broke down as all 10 dem radical left wing candidates emerged with their idiotic plans which cannot be realistically implemented under financial aspects for the trillion dollar questions cannot be solved with 70 % income tax. thereto such stupidity advocated by castro as to implement for transgender male pregnancies free abortion, biologically not possible.

then the green new rubbish deal, which would destroy the us economy, the abolishment of privat health care, health care for illegal aliens etc... not feasible in real life.

 

summing up the nonsense the democratic party has emerged after the debate as the new radical

socialist party, which poses a danger to us democracy.

 

the winner anyway mr. donald trump.

 

wbr

roobaa01

[Jingthing]

11 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

the dem clown car broke down as all 10 dem radical left wing candidates emerged with their idiotic plans which cannot be realistically implemented under financial aspects for the trillion dollar questions cannot be solved with 70 % income tax. thereto such stupidity advocated by castro as to implement for transgender male pregnancies free abortion, biologically not possible.

then the green new rubbish deal, which would destroy the us economy, the abolishment of privat health care, health care for illegal aliens etc... not feasible in real life.

 

summing up the nonsense the democratic party has emerged after the debate as the new radical

socialist party, which poses a danger to us democracy.

 

the winner anyway mr. donald trump.

 

wbr

roobaa01

There is no democratic clown car. You're thinking of the republican 2016 clown car that tragically led to the illegitimate presidency we have now. 

[Thainesss]

3 hours ago, bristolboy said:

I'm trying to be sorry that exposing the falsity of your beliefs  discomfits you. 

 

The smugness here ^

[TopDeadSenter]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

illegitimate presidency we have now.

Go on then, I'll bite. Are you guys still whining about the total vote tallies/electoral college system? Quite staggering to see 3 years into Trumps presidency that a few people still don't realize he won the election. 

 If in 2020 Biden wins the election, but Trump had a greater outright votes number, you will of course be agitating for Trump to oust Biden? Right??

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Go on then, I'll bite. Are you guys still whining about the total vote tallies/electoral college system? Quite staggering to see 3 years into Trumps presidency that a few people still don't realize he won the election. 

 If in 2020 Biden wins the election, but Trump had a greater outright votes number, you will of course be agitating for Trump to oust Biden? Right??

Russian interference. 

[mike324]

On 6/28/2019 at 2:24 PM, Thainesss said:

 

Read all 4 pages here and all you do is take swipes at other posters trying to disprove everything they say, without providing an original thought of your own. 

 

The dem field is an absolute embarrassment right now, and I don’t see not a one that as any position that is mainstream enough to get enough votes to win. 

 

More time campaigning for illegal immigrant healthcare. Raising middle class taxes. Abortion on demand, paid by taxpayers. Vilifying gun owners and members of the NRA. Reparations. Decriminalizing illegal border crossing. On and on and on. 

 

The left is tripping over itself to be the most “progressive” candidate and practically serving up Trumps 2020 win on a silver platter. 

 

If the election was held tomorrow, I’d wager an easy $10k on trump winning again. It’s all rather comical really. 

As a Dem, I have to to agree with you. Majority of the Dems are placing too much importance on being just and helping the illegals instead of trying to present way to stop illegal immigration. This is the single reason why they are losing support.

 

But they also bring in good points such as raising taxes, folks don't like taxes, nobody does. But if you don't raise taxes you can't pay for stuff, the society will be divided and equality gap gets wider and wider. I'm sure nobody wants to cut the defense budget, cutting a small percentage of defense budget can pay for all the free schooling and healthcare Americans will need each year.

 

I think Dems are moving too extreme to the left that they are shooting themselves in the foot. Thats not to say I like Trump, he is an idiot. But he is only saying what Americans want to hear, sad part is majority of the supporter don't realize the outcome of Trumps actions is not making any impact.