Must Read Welcome to Thailand - and welcome to immigration queues!

[Mel52]

If you go back and read my comment, you'll see that it was not the main point. Personally, I'm not too pushed by the exchange rate as my income is in THB, so, am on the up side.   

The other complaints were all valid grievances which anybody, who travels/has travelled, would notice and compare to other cities/countries they'd been to. 

 

 

 

Ok, I thought it was a little bit of excessive complaining but it’s cool everyone vents every once in a while including me. Thailand is actually a pretty nice place to live but I totally get it if you live in downtown Bangkok. There’s some things I hate about traveling such as taking off our shoes at most airports around the world. I remember when I went through the Kuwaiti International Airport once on my way home from Iraq I was so surprised that they didn’t make us take off our shoes but that was April 2009 so that may have changed in Kuwait by now. And I was flying Emirates Air as well.

 

Remember the attempted shoe bomber Richard Reed? Well he’s the reason why we have to take our shoes off at the airport now ever since 2004 if I remember right. I swear every time I have to take off my shoes at the airport I think of Richard Reed in prison and I just hope that something really bad is happening to him in the prison shower at the moment I’m taking my shoes off at airport security.

 

[Salerno]

18 minutes ago, Mel52 said:

Dude I’m sorry but you’re honestly not making any sense maybe you’re trying to be funny if so I’m not getting the joke you kind of lost me there.

 

Not trying to be funny at all. You are saying the cameras at swampy are retina scanners (originally I thought you said Iris but I looked back) and I'm saying you are ... mistaken.

[Mel52]

Not trying to be funny at all. You are saying the cameras at swampy are retina scanners (originally I thought you said Iris but I looked back) and I'm saying you are ... mistaken.

 

Actually I’m not research it for yourself and I have no idea what you mean by “swampy”. I used to deal with stuff like this for a living so I’m not actually debating anything I know it for a fact

[dallen52]

1 hour ago, overherebc said:

Haven't been through swampy for a few months so don't know where the scanners are. It sounds like a daft question I know but I take it they are on the IO's booth desk, similar to Malaysia.

So you get to the booth hand over PP and do the print scan and how long does it take for the scan to work, assuming it goes ok?

Last time I did similar was in UK it was passport page in the reader, right hand on the scanner look at the camera  and it took 4 or 5 seconds and there wasn't an IO in sight.

Still manned booths. 

The scanners are on the rhs as you stand at the desk. 

So its added processing. 

LH and RH and thumbs.

While he is trying to find your last stamped page.

Still manual passport reads for farang at this point in time. 

Unlike the egates that are used for Thais. 

 

Maybe the next phase?

 

But certainly slowing down the entry at present. 

[dallen52]

1 hour ago, EricTh said:

I fail to understand why they need to scan 8 fingers and  2 thumbs?

 

Wouldn't the right thumb be sufficient to uniquely identify someone, if not, the left thumb combined should be more than enough.

 

That would at least cut down the queue time by half.

 

Indeed.

Or a hand scanner at hand height. 

Not one you have to raise the hand to.

I recall that the glass screen has areas marked for placing the digits. 

Its when they say, "two thumbs together ".

You have to pivot around and think about it, lol.

Like said,  someone has made a fortune selling these to the government. 

They are different from others around the world. 

But,  then again.  TIT.

[Salerno]

9 minutes ago, Mel52 said:

 

Actually I’m not research it for yourself and I have no idea what you mean by “swampy”. I used to deal with stuff like this for a living so I’m not actually debating anything I know it for a fact

 

Swampy = Suvarnabhumi i.e. Bangkok airport.

 

Given you used to deal with this stuff for a living (as mentioned numerous times) then you would know there is a difference between retina scanning and iris scanning. For the vast majority of implementations currently in use it's more likely iris scanning as retina scanning for capture and identification is problematic.

 

You would also know you need to "enrol" for it i.e. have them purposely scanned to be added to a database or microchip in your passport for it to be useful. So when did they scan our iris so they could use it to identify us at immigration? It's certainly not part of the biometrics embedded in my passport.

 

I don't believe the cameras at Bkk are iris, let alone retina, scanners. Please provide proof of your assertion.

[dallen52]

14 minutes ago, Mel52 said:

 

Actually I’m not research it for yourself and I have no idea what you mean by “swampy”. I used to deal with stuff like this for a living so I’m not actually debating anything I know it for a fact

These new cameras are capable of performing several functions. 

Up to 10 lenses can be incorporated. 

The traffic cameras have 6 camera functions in them. 

They can read several areas of the vehicle as you travel through. 

[observer90210]

A smart marketing trick from some high divine authority body....mess up the software, cause delays and the huge queues will give an impression that tourism is on the high 5 !!

[FinChin67]

In China this has been really quick. Once they scan your passport and you have left your fingerprints before you do not need to do this again (only in some cases they might do a spot check). Anyways, very fast. Also in many borders they have separate stations to leave fingerprints before going to immigration. 

I completely understand this measure but Thai's running it is another story...

[dallen52]

1 hour ago, EricTh said:

I fail to understand why they need to scan 8 fingers and  2 thumbs?

 

Wouldn't the right thumb be sufficient to uniquely identify someone, if not, the left thumb combined should be more than enough.

 

That would at least cut down the queue time by half.

 

Indeed.

Or a hand scanner at hand height. 

Not one you have to raise the hand to.

I recall that the glass screen has areas marked for placing the digits. 

Its when they say, "two thumbs together ".

You have to pivot around and think about it, lol.

Like said,  someone has made a fortune selling these to the government. 

They are different from others around the world. 

But,  then again.  TIT.

[dallen52]

Information about the system is limited but appears to be German based. 

And already being hailed as successful in capturing criminals. 

 

Jeez.

Just a thought ..

If DLT is refusing registration renewal if you have unpaid fines..

What's going to happen next at immigration control if the database picks up the same information?

And you cannot leave until outstanding money is paid?

 

Scary thoughts...

 

Edited June 28, 2019 by dallen52

[dallen52]

11 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

I think I;m going to try and sell Thai immigration the idea of i.d. recognition at passport control by stool sample.

That would be probably provided freely if the new system picks you up for other reasons. 

 

[phetpeter]

Strange when I went to Saudi and again in China, they do the same, but have at least a dozen desks open, ( 3.30am one desk and just me LOL) and no need for arrival and departure cards. Every month when on visa run, never more then 30 mins to get through even when tow plane loads arrived at the same time! perhaps in stead of building there own way of doing it, they should just go and copy another airport system, perhaps they should give the job to Saudi immigration to do it!

[Almer]

But is the info safe with the right  hand not knowing what the left is doing/taking 

[VBF]

5 hours ago, Oxx said:

Do I need to bring my own alcohol wipes and wipe the device down thoroughly before putting my fingers on it? Or does Immigration provide such wipes and do the wipe down for you?

Don't laugh - I've just added them to my hand carry list for next trip - to wipe my fingers after I've used the FP sensor. (I always carry some in my checked baggage anyway - room phones, TV remotes and in case I injure myself as part of my first aid kit)

[Almer]

Wow you guys are professionals 

[Guest Jerry787]

i did few weeks a go when just started, luckily no many people, but i smiled and guessed in high season will be even worst then this.

[kritsana77]

13 hours ago, bluesofa said:

As they've spent 2 billion Baht in this, a few handouts in a dozen languages explaining the details wouldn't have been too much to ask would it?

 

 

That would require to much reasoning and forethought

[Lokie]

See your all coming at this from the wrong angle, actually thinking Immigration give a flying flook what any foreigners think?

 

Will be just another hassle in a country where money talks, as said cue the fast immigration service - Hello Welcome!  

[Mel52]

Information about the system is limited but appears to be German based. 
And already being hailed as successful in capturing criminals. 
 
Jeez.
Just a thought ..
If DLT is refusing registration renewal if you have unpaid fines..
What's going to happen next at immigration control if the database picks up the same information?
And you cannot leave until outstanding money is paid?
 
Scary thoughts...
 

This is a little bit of what I was talking about in earlier posts and it kind of makes my point except biometrics and facial recognition software is not anything new it’s just an upgrade to the current biometrics system they have already had for several years. When we first visited here from Tokyo Japan over the holidays during Christmas and New Years of 2009 through 2010 they had biometrics screening technology at Suvarnabhumi airport including the retina scan and electronic thumb print as far back as at least 10 or 12 years probably longer than that even.

What’s happening now is simply just an upgrade to the current biometrics technology and lots of other countries are upgrading as well.

They have lots of technology like this that most people don’t know about. They have the facial recognition software and other amazing things such as cameras that can identify you even by the way you walk by your stride or gate or something like that. I’m no techy so most of this technology is above my head. I’m only aware of it because of my old job. We had to be taught a little bit about biometrics technology at airports and all ports of entry and border crossings because of the nature of our work. And biometrics technology did cause a lot of challenges for us because of the type of work we did. I had a month long class about biometrics technology back in 2006 following a six month training course for other things that I can’t get into.

If I were to write about everything I learned about biometrics technology in the class I had I’d be writing a book on here plus the class I had was classified anyway so I can’t write too much about the details. Regardless the biometrics technology training I received was back in 2006 and I retired in 2014 so by now I probably don’t know about all the changes and upgrades to the biometrics technology I’m sure most of what I used to know about it has probably changed by now after all these years and improved and upgraded especially in this day and age where technology advances so extremely quickly. So a lot of the things I used to know about biometrics technology is probably obsolete today or changed and upgraded. As far as what I was taught about it there’s not much I’m allowed to say because it was a classified class but it’s ok because biometrics technology is no secret and I’m not saying very much that most people don’t already know. And regardless I’ve been out of the game so long and retired so long now I probably no longer know even half of what I used to know about it. Technology does advance very fast today so who knows what they can do today probably some pretty cool stuff. But biometrics technology is an international thing now that’s been around all over the world for several years now. Thailand is just simply upgrading their technology but most people don’t fully understand how it works. I used to know a lot about biometrics technology and I don’t even know everything about it. I was never an expert on biometrics technology it was just something we had to deal with sometimes in my old job when traveling abroad sometimes (if you were carrying a different wallet if you know what I mean without saying anything more than that).

[bbi1]

So these scanners are only in Swampy or also at DMK too? I'm presuming it's at both.

[scoutman360]

I live and work in Thailand and I must travel abroad every month. Most of the time, the immigration officers wave me through without a finger print scan. But I can see a lot of people holding up the line because they don't understand the MORE THAN OBVIOUS video in their face on how to hold their hands on the scanner. If they would follow the instructions, they would be done before the officer finished the passport stamp.

[Mel52]

  Swampy = Suvarnabhumi i.e. Bangkok airport.

 

Given you used to deal with this stuff for a living (as mentioned numerous times) then you would know there is a difference between retina scanning and iris scanning. For the vast majority of implementations currently in use it's more likely iris scanning as retina scanning for capture and identification is problematic.

 

You would also know you need to "enrol" for it i.e. have them purposely scanned to be added to a database or microchip in your passport for it to be useful. So when did they scan our iris so they could use it to identify us at immigration? It's certainly not part of the biometrics embedded in my passport.

 

I don't believe the cameras at Bkk are iris, let alone retina, scanners. Please provide proof of your assertion.

 

 

Your biometrics data is on the chip in your passport but like I said this isn’t a debate some of this stuff used to be part of my job and I really do know for a fact so I’m just wasting my time debating it with anyone. I wish I could tell you more about how I know but I can’t because of my old job but trust me it’s a fact and I’m sure by now the technology is a lot more advanced since I retired and I assure you that it will continue to advance I can only imagine the technology they have today just from knowing what they could do 15 years ago and up to 2014 when I retired. Lol if I gave you proof I’d be in violation of my Nondisclosure Agreement (NDA). The training I received on biometrics technology was classified and that was back in 06.

 

[dallen52]

20 minutes ago, Mel52 said:

 

This is a little bit of what I was talking about in earlier posts and it kind of makes my point except biometrics and facial recognition software is not anything new it’s just an upgrade to the current biometrics system they have already had for several years. When we first visited here from Tokyo Japan over the holidays during Christmas and New Years of 2009 through 2010 they had biometrics screening technology at Suvarnabhumi airport including the retina scan and electronic thumb print as far back as at least 10 or 12 years probably longer than that even.

What’s happening now is simply just an upgrade to the current biometrics technology and lots of other countries are upgrading as well.

They have lots of technology like this that most people don’t know about. They have the facial recognition software and other amazing things such as cameras that can identify you even by the way you walk by your stride or gate or something like that. I’m no techy so most of this technology is above my head. I’m only aware of it because of my old job. We had to be taught a little bit about biometrics technology at airports and all ports of entry and border crossings because of the nature of our work. And biometrics technology did cause a lot of challenges for us because of the type of work we did. I had a month long class about biometrics technology back in 2006 following a six month training course for other things that I can’t get into.

If I were to write about everything I learned about biometrics technology in the class I had I’d be writing a book on here plus the class I had was classified anyway so I can’t write too much about the details. Regardless the biometrics technology training I received was back in 2006 and I retired in 2014 so by now I probably don’t know about all the changes and upgrades to the biometrics technology I’m sure most of what I used to know about it has probably changed by now after all these years and improved and upgraded especially in this day and age where technology advances so extremely quickly. So a lot of the things I used to know about biometrics technology is probably obsolete today or changed and upgraded. As far as what I was taught about it there’s not much I’m allowed to say because it was a classified class but it’s ok because biometrics technology is no secret and I’m not saying very much that most people don’t already know. And regardless I’ve been out of the game so long and retired so long now I probably no longer know even half of what I used to know about it. Technology does advance very fast today so who knows what they can do today probably some pretty cool stuff. But biometrics technology is an international thing now that’s been around all over the world for several years now. Thailand is just simply upgrading their technology but most people don’t fully understand how it works. I used to know a lot about biometrics technology and I don’t even know everything about it. I was never an expert on biometrics technology it was just something we had to deal with sometimes in my old job when traveling abroad sometimes (if you were carrying a different wallet if you know what I mean without saying anything more than that).

 

I was with Denso in Japan and other places 15 years.

Same China too. 

The technology is way ahead. 

People should not assume Thailand is a back water on technology. 

The use of sensing images cameras to detect flu and body temperature has been around for years also.

China based credit scores on visual detection of people and their shopping habits. 

I saw a programme the other day. 

It took 6 seconds to detect and find a person in China. 

If you cross the street on a red light the system shames you publicly and sends a fine to your home..

Big Brother indeed.

 

[Mel52]

So these scanners are only in Swampy or also at DMK too? I'm presuming it's at both.

All over the world have been for many years they are just upgrading their current system

[dallen52]

11 minutes ago, bbi1 said:

So these scanners are only in Swampy or also at DMK too? I'm presuming it's at both.

170 locations so it says. 

[meand]

14 hours ago, Genmai said:

People who think like this tend to not realize just how much of our 'private' information is in the public domain already or available for sale to third parties. Nothing you can do about it. Personally if it means a reduced chance of actual criminals getting in and living among us then I'm all for it. Whatever privacy concerns I may have are outweighed by the benefits of living in a safer society. It's more an issue of sloppy implementation that's the problem here. Lines not managed, forms nowhere to be found, staff picking their noses and eating soup on a chair, gross scanners never cleaned, pens covered in scotch tape with the germs of 10000 travelers, IO taking their sweet time, etc. Thailand should really take notes from Japan where this system has been in place for many years.

Are you saying you feel as if the fingerprints are compared to some sort of international database or something? Right there in the line with computer worth 27 dollars? 

 

I doubt there is any actual security benefit, or filter. If there is forgive me if i missed it earlier in the thread. Bottom line is though if you are coming into a country you have got to comply or turn around. 

[Mel52]

Information about the system is limited but appears to be German based. 
And already being hailed as successful in capturing criminals. 
 
Jeez.
Just a thought ..
If DLT is refusing registration renewal if you have unpaid fines..
What's going to happen next at immigration control if the database picks up the same information?
And you cannot leave until outstanding money is paid?
 
Scary thoughts...
 

A better way to phrase it in the article would have been “upgraded” biometrics technology not “new” because it makes everyone think that it really is something new. I know that’s semantics and technically it is something new but biometrics technology is definitely nothing new it’s just periodically upgraded as the technology advances. The above article is just trying to get people’s attention by calling it “new” technology it’s actually “upgraded” technology to something they’ve already had for several years. But I guess anything to get those precious news ratings by use of sensationalism. That’s why there’s so much misinformation and lack of education about stuff like this because of dishonest media outlets trying to get ratings.

Just read my above posts I explained above how, what, and why I know a little bit about biometrics technology because in my old job we had to deal with biometrics technology sometimes when traveling all over the world on business and biometrics technology was really starting to cause us some serious challenges before I retired. I can’t get into detail about why it caused us problems because it was an extremely secretive type of career. But I’m sure some people probably understand what I’m getting at here I just can’t say it plainly because I could get into a lot of trouble if I did. Just hinting about it is already walking a fine line.

[Litlos]

I am lucky and have very faint fingerprints, so about 5 minutes to complete the scanning process.  The first time the IO was scratching his head and saying try this that etc. Eventually someone suggested covering the scanner as much as possible to stop extra light getting in, which sort of worked.  Next time only 4 minutes after covering straight away and the IO saying why are you doing that.  A class A disaster which I will have to deal with every 4 weeks until it is dropped.

 

Cheers

[Mel52]

People always automatically assume these days that this type of technology is some vast government conspiracy to spy on all of us and it’s really not I know for a fact because of my old job like I said. Although I understand the paranoia because of other things that have been revealed particularly some of the NSA programs by Edward Snowden.

 

All biometrics screening technology is is just simply new border security technology might as well get used to it because the technology is just gonna continue to advance and be upgraded over the years to come. It ain’t going away it’s just gonna improve and I’m sure it already has since I retired