Phuket tourism going down the pan just like Pattaya: Few tourists and much worse than last year

[jinners]

Inevitable, not just to the obvious Baht strength meaning it's no longer a cheap destination even after flying half way around the world to get here for many of us. But for Phuket in particular. After a visit last year I found it very expensive, rude surly locals and too many Russians visitors. Pattaya has more choice and is much better vfm in my opinion. I live there and so maybe know a few of the better places to go but same as many others it would seem, I won't be spending my hard earned Baht in Phuket again.

[WaveHunter]

45 minutes ago, jinners said:

After a visit last year I found it very expensive, rude surly locals and too many Russians visitors. Pattaya has more choice and is much better vfm in my opinion. 

Actually Pattaya has gotten much worse in the last year IMO.  When I walk down the street I hear as many people speaking Russian (and Chinese) as I hear Thai or western language.  You can't walk down a street or sit on the beach without some local trying to sell you something (usually sex related).  I know that's always been part of this town but it's getting more aggressive lately.  Prices of many goods and services has risen noticeably (and in an unreasonable way) lately.

 

Local Thais truly can, on occasion, be truly rude and surly.  I was taken aback the other day when an elderly Thai lady came at me with a hammer, threatening to hit me simply because I banged my hand on the side of of her coin-op washing machine to dislodge a stuck coin.  The look in her eyes was chilling (though kind of funny at the same time).

 

I'm not saying it's overwhelming, but it now seems to exists in a way I don't remember seeing before.  I've had my fun here in Thailand; time to move on I think.

Edited July 13, 2019 by WaveHunter

[spidermike007]

3 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

I agree that Thailand seems to have changed recently and is not so attractive to Westerners as it was only a few years ago.  I moved to Chiang Mai from the USA in late 2017 and loved it at first but within less than a year I noticed things changing in a very negative way.

 

At first I was confused why dealing with Immigration seemed to be getting more and more difficult for visa renewals.  Traffic, congestion, and pollution always seemed bad, but I could see it definitely getting even worse. I made short trips down to Chon Buri just to near the beach and get away from the pollution and though my initial trips were nice, it was changing for the worse too.

 

At first Chon Buri seemed great.  This year, I decided to move down there, and what I encountered was a surprise.  Beach pollution has become intolerable this year.  The sewage and floating garbage is so bad I don't even swim off beaches anymore.  it's a <deleted>' joke!  Thai people around there seem to be more patronizing and show less genuine friendliness.  I get the impression they see Westerners now simply as walking ATM machines.  Very sad! There's veru little western tourism around here anymore and it seems that the place has become over-run with bus tours full of rude and obnoxious Chinese tourist. 

 

I'm not prejudiced against Chinese people and travel within China a great deal for business, but the Chinese who come to the Chon Buri area as bus tourists are just some of the worst kind of people I've ever encountered anywhere.  They are loud and obnoxious in public and seem to have no manners at all, like in restaurants or when shopping.  I have no reason why but it's palpable!

 

Anyway, I think I've had enough of Thailand.  It's actually been a wonderful experience overall, but I'm now strongly thinking of moving to Viet Nam.  My impression is Thailand is losing its' appeal, and Vietnam is gaining appeal for Westerners lately in a very strong way!.

 

No doubt that Thailand attracts the lower to middle end of the spectrum of Chinese tourists. So, not much class, manners, decorum, or respect. They are accustomed to jostling with big crowds, hence the aversion to lines.

 

I agree about the patronizing attitude with alot of Thais. Not all. I meet some genuinely nice people. But, it is incredibly difficult to form friendships with Thai people here. They seem to have absolutely nothing in the way of curiosity about us, the outside world, and have some bizarre notions about Westerners. Farang this, farang that. 

 

Like I said previously, the neighboring countries see the value of the ex-pat community, and Western tourism. The Thais are blinded to it, due to fake nationalism. 

Edited July 13, 2019 by spidermike007

[RocketDog]

On 7/12/2019 at 9:41 AM, Just1Voice said:

My feeling, and I admit I have no proof, is that the baht is being artificially propped up, but have no idea why. If it is, eventually it will crash, and the economic shockwave will have the power of a tsunami throughout Thailand. 

This isn't my thinking. I read in in another post but it makes sense.

 

The baht is being pumped so that the rich in this country can export their money into foreign banks/Currencies at artificially higher exchange rates. The rich Chinese are doing this in droves, some even smuggling money out of the country in violations of limits. Once the wave has passed, the baht will fall.

 

The simplest answer to a question is usually also the correct one. Occam's Razor.

[hotchilli]

On 7/12/2019 at 9:54 AM, Pilotman said:

Yes to all that, but on balance, I see no difference in terms of ripping off tourists here than say Spain, Cyprus, Malta,  most Caribbean islands. It goes on everywhere. 

In all the countries I've ever visited Thailand is the number one for ripping people off... yes others do add-on  a little in tourist resort areas, as does my home country but for all visitors not excluding locals.

Erewan national park blatantly displays it's entrance fee... 40 baht locals 400 baht foreigners 10X the price

No sympathy Thailand hope the goose flies far away... 

Som Nam Na

[bronzedude]

On 7/12/2019 at 2:12 PM, spidermike007 said:

As I posted in a similar post about Pattaya, all of the details remain pertinent and real.

 

It is easy to blame the strong baht. And it is definitely a factor. But, there are so many other factors. The army, Prayuth, and the biggest joke spent five years sabotaging Western tourism. Now, the damage can be felt, and people are worried. Millions of jobs are at stake. Same applies to ex-pats. Many are leaving, or have left. Not feeling welcome?

 

Also, the unwillingness to tackle the scams, the traffic and public safety issues, the environmental issues, and so many other causes, are all having an impact on tourism. The decision to turn away from Western tourism, and focus almost exclusively on Chinese and Indian tourism was a mistake of historically monumental proportions. The TAT is barely making any effort to lure Westerners. And in my opinion they are the big spenders. I read surveys about the average Chinese tourists, being at the top of the list of big spenders. But, this is average. And the big spending Chinese do not come to Thailand for a dozen different reasons. The wife wants to buy a luxury handbag. The same Gucci bag that she likes is $3,500 in Singapore, London, New York, Paris, Hong Kong, or Dubai. In Bangkok that bag sells for $9,000. At a five star hotel, this same wealthy Chinese couple want a great bottle of wine. They see a good vintage of Domaine Coche-Dury Monthelie, which would sell for about $500 retail, at a five star in any of the above cities for $1,000 on the list. Same bottle, if it was available (highly unlikely) in Bangkok, would be 95,000 baht, or more. Wealthy people tend to be smart with their money. They simply will not pay stupid money for stuff. The luxury taxes have been discouraging high end tourism here for decades. It is policy that is so dumb, so shortsighted, so non-visionary, and it hurts the economy. If wine duty was 100%, you would have a thriving wine industry here, five to ten times the size of the current industry. So the state income would be made up on volume, and hundreds of thousands of jobs would be generated. This is simply another example of brain dead leaders, who have no vision, and are NOT leading the nation forward, are not helping the nation to progress, and are not benefitting the people of Thailand.

 

I was recently with a group of friends, and we wanted to order a bottle of wine, at of one of those high end restaurants in the EmQuartier complex. It was Bella Rocca Restaurant. I asked about a 2011 Chianti they had on the list. I was told they were out of stock. No have. I asked about a Barbaresco, at 2,600 baht. Again, out of stock. No have. How about this Nebbiolo? Do you have the 2010, as stated on the list? No have. We do have the 2016. OK, what is that wine like? Is it drinking well now? I do not know. Is there anyone here that is familiar with this wine list? No. Sorry sir. Hold on. Wait a minute. You have 100s of bottles on this list, ranging from 1200 baht to 10,000 baht per bottle, and NOBODY who works here knows anything about the wine? How about the manager? Oh, he does not know either. Are you serious? We all just looked at each other, and got up and walked out. We realized the restaurant was a pretender. And more than likely the food was marginal at best. It was all dressed up to look like a very nice Italian restaurant. But, it appeared to be only window dressing. High end tourists have little patience for that lack of quality and lack of service. They can get far better service in many other nations, without the onerous taxes on luxury goods like foreign wine!

 

Hopefully, we will eventually see a correction in the Thai baht. Although I feel for those in the hotel industry, lower rates over the long haul sure works for me! It may be the one area where we do not see inflation rearing it's ugly head!

I agree with so much of your post. But those who already feeding at the trough will never give up their spots or eat less. I hope the Thai economy takes a deep dive, only then will those expats who stay around will be appreciated. I feel sorry the the average Thai person (the ones who work for minimum wage) and their families because this hurts them more than anyone. I feel sorry for those poor families in the outer provinces that were getting help from their daughters in the cities and are finding the flow of baht diminishing. I should add that I used to buy about 2000 baht/month for wine and since the tax hike, I haven't bought a single bottle. It may not seem like much money, but mulitply that amount by the number of expats who have done the same and Bob's your uncle. 

[sambum]

21 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

The meaningful number is debt as a percent of GDP.

ThomasThBKK's original post asaid

That's obviously a percentage chart that shows fa.

SOURCE: https://www.bot.or.th/Thai/Statistics/Graph/Chart_Pack/Chart Pack.pdf 

BANK OF THAILAND.

Clearly shows a household debt of 13 Trillion baht, a number never seen before."

 

To which you rather condescendingly replied "Can you not read your own chart?"

 

And I reposted the chart pointing out the ACTUAL HOUSEHOLD DEBT to which ThomasThBKK was referring

 

"Household Debt Outstanding"  - from 4 trillion to 13 trillion from 2007 to 2019

 

To which you replied "Debt to GDP" "which is the only meaningful figure"

 

As I said before - I think you are being deliberately obtuse, and before the Mods step in there is no further point to this discussion, so let's leave it at that. 

Edited July 13, 2019 by sambum

[sambum]

21 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Tourism has gone up every year.  If you disagree present some other than anecdotal evidence.  

My point being that leading hoteliers in Phuket and Pattaya have said something that you and TAT are both trying to disguise - the fact that empty streets, bars, restaurants and hotels tell the true story rather than "statistics". As British prime minister Benjamin Disraeli put it :-  "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

[sambum]

22 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Vote with your feet.  I did.  I don't get double charged ever.  

That is not the point - double charging exists

[markeewan]

On 7/12/2019 at 5:03 PM, Mansell said:

"The planes are full though."

Of course they are full because the airlines figured out decades ago empty planes means less income. So they cancel flights and fill their other flights with the people from the cancelled flights. Ergo: full flights. It doesn't mean more people are flying, in fact the opposite is the case.

Agree with this, the three evening Thai Airways flights between Bangkok and Sydney were cancelled earlier this year.

 

So that is 3 x 416 passengers not going / returning to Thailand from Aus per week. Previously there were 10 flights per week and now down to 7 so that is a 30% reduction which is consistent with the numbers quoted previously.

 

Whilst Phuket has its issues, the strong baht or weak AUD would drive people to somewhere cheaper than Thailand.

 

AUD has gone from 30 baht to the dollar to around 22 baht over the past couple of years, so any holiday now costs 27% more and for many people that becomes the deciding factor.

 

I may be completely off track, but Australia recently introduced restrictions on foreign nationals investing in Australia to cool down the housing market and those people are now looking to other markets to put their money. Thailand is one of those markets, causing the baht to appreciate.

[Thaidream]

36 minutes ago, sambum said:

y point being that leading hoteliers in Phuket and Pattaya have said something that you and TAT are both trying to disguise - the fact that empty streets, bars, restaurants and hotels tell the true story rather than "statistics". As British prime minister Benjamin Disraeli put it :-  "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

The eye test is always the best-  I trael around Thailand a lot and at one time no matter what hotel you went to- there was always a large number of Western tourists about.  A few weeks ago- I was in a very nice hotel on the Mekong River-  I never saw another Westerner for 5 days. There was hardly any guests in the hotel except  a bus load of elderly Thais who were on a day out and stayed a night in the hotel.

 

At one time Immigration at CW had a mix of 70% Western to 30 % Other.  Now it is the reverse.

 

Thailand  has made a huge mistake and has literally driven Westerners away from the country on the false belief that the Chinese and Indians will save the day and create new wealth.  Most of the Chinese and Indians I see about are on tours- not individual travelers- and  do not stay at 4-5 star hotels-  They may spend money on souvenirs but these shops are owned by people of their own Nationality or ethnic background.

 

Then there is the Immigration conundrum-  the over publication of  men in uniform standing over a group of over stayers looks to the uninformed as an example of  overkill-  this frightens people- from the average tourist to the high spending foreigner.

 

Throw in the pollution' the lack of safety in some places' dirty beaches' over priced Baht and entertainment areas and it amounts to a Lose-lose for everyone. 

[sambum]

1 hour ago, sambum said:

That is not the point - double charging exists

 

P.S. From another poster:- "Erewan national park blatantly displays it's entrance fee... 40 baht locals 400 baht foreigners 10X the price"

Edited July 13, 2019 by sambum

[from the home of CC]

5 hours ago, Bipolar said:

I always stay away from the Southern Provinces and Resorts and advice all to do so....terrible southern mafias and rude and crude uncivilised people. Everything is overpriced there. Some stupid people tell that rich and well to do foreigners are in Phuket as far as I am concerned they must either be stupid or criminals involved in money laundering or running away from their home country authorities!  Its also the base of some illegal media that is run by foreigners but using thai proxies.

TV?

[Jiggo]

20 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

How many years have you been complaining about this and has it stopped an increase in tourism?

A few, and the increase stopped..

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, Jiggo said:

A few, and the increase stopped..

When has the increase stopped?  What year?

[BernieOnTour]

On 7/12/2019 at 2:40 PM, PatOngo said:

Cheap cigarettes!

Sure ...

2006 Marlboro Gold 60 baht

2019 Marlboro Gold 145 baht ~ +145%

 

In Euro, even worse:

2006 60 baht, 1€ ~ 50 baht = 1.20 €

2019 145 baht, 1€ ~ 35 baht = 4.15 € —> +245%

[from the home of CC]

On 7/12/2019 at 10:20 AM, yogi100 said:

The bar girls definitely can see it, in Pattaya anyway. They collectively hate their govt and wish Taksin could come back.

ah yes, the premier pimp..

[BernieOnTour]

Their main problem is not unlikely only the economy, but that tourists have gotten smarter and better informed as the available funds are getting lower ...

 

15-20 years ago, not many well prepared tourist would have had the idea to visit Phuket in rainy season - raining, flooding, dangerous currents, no visibility when diving, etc...

 

They could pull this stunt with yearly increasing tourist numbers in rainy season only with uninformed Chinese and Australians, who booked based on the nice pictures in the travel broschures.

 

Nowadays, those also read travel guides and not at least, travel blogs - and compare Phuket with alternative destinations, which might have better weather conditions at comparable or even lower price levels.

 

... now they are trying to repeat that stunt with the Indians, hunting for a bargain ...

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2019 by BernieOnTour

[digger70]

22 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

No I was going to say I felt the economic indicators gave a buy signal in 2005 so I invested in Thai currency and they are still showing a buy signal.  If you own pounds now is a good time to convert to baht.  

Yea same here for AUD  but you got to have them first ????

[marcusarelus]

43 minutes ago, BernieOnTour said:

Their main problem is not unlikely only the economy, but that tourists have gotten smarter and better informed as the available funds are getting lower ...

Check and make sure you are correct.

International tourism, expenditures (current US$) _ Data.pdf

[AdamTheFarang]

On 7/12/2019 at 4:07 AM, Joe Mcseismic said:

The strength of the Thai Baht is not "artificial".

The reason it is so high is because:-

Increasing foreign exchange reserves.

Low inflation rate.

Low unemployment.

Resilient economy.

Concern about European economies (their currencies losing value).

 

The Thai Central Bank has the same job as other Central banks; to keep inflation in check. This is why they have very limited options with regard to the exchange rate.

 

The foreign exchange market is far bigger than any single countries power to influence their own currency.

Britain tried to support Sterling in 1993, but, still crashed out of the ERM.

Thailand tried to do the same in 1997 and spent most of their foreign currency reserves.

In both cases, it was the foreign exchange market that determined the outcome.

You are forgetting one thing, the Pound, USD and other major currencies are freely traded and speculated upon in other words freely convertible currencies, the Thai Baht is not, as it is not a freely convertible currency. Therefore the largest player is you guessed it.........Clue Thailand is for Thais.

[madmen]

What a load of nonsense. It's always always about the money.

 

Tourists couldn't give a rats about a 200 baht tuk Tuk it's still cheap

 

Such a tiny tiny percent rent jet skis and bikes so they don't care about mafia or some general and The beaches are still blue and the climate tropical

 

The baht is the only reason and it doesn't look like doing a reversal for many years to come if ever

 

 

 

[AdamTheFarang]

5 hours ago, StevieAus said:

Sounds like you are a travel agent?

Where do you get all your money to buy all these properties? Are you yet another one who tells stories.....they used to be in the special forces, you can say anything on here. So you do not work and swim, but make huge amounts of money. Is that a pink pig I see flying past me. I lived in Phuket for 7 years and essentially it changed from being lovely, to being full of immigrant Thais trying to con any tourist or foreigner out of as much money as possible with no thought for the future. They openly admit this amongst themselves. Did you know that foreigners cannot but property in Phuket, or Thailand, except condos and there are many stories of properties being re-possessed and fraud etc You state you own properties in Hawaii and Thailand and are only 30 years old. Prove it, or shut up.  Most people come to Phuket with some money and end up with far less. You, however paint a heavenly view of your life, buying properties and swimming. What exactly do you do with these properties are clearly there are many empty rentals. StevieAus sounds Australian to me, but there I was thinking Hawaii was American, should that be Steve50 as in Hawaii 50! Lol, or StevieFullOfC..P 

[StevieAus]

On 7/12/2019 at 11:00 AM, ThomasThBKK said:

And as of Today every german newspapers frontpage is about the german girl that got raped and killed on Ko Si Chang and the death sentence the killer got. RIP.

 

Constant bad news like this make many people think twice about coming here.

Sad that the German newspapers want to report on the rape of a German girl overseas but when it was happening to their own allegedly by African migrants there appeared to be silence.

[StevieAus]

On 7/12/2019 at 3:31 PM, Joe Mcseismic said:

Yes, have seen it over various threads. Some posters seem to think that the government can snap their fingers and can strengthen, or weaken their currency at will.

If that is the the case please send as a matter of urgency the formula to the Australian government so that we can get a better exchange rate.

[AdamTheFarang]

3 minutes ago, StevieAus said:

If that is the the case please send as a matter of urgency the formula to the Australian government so that we can get a better exchange rate.

Huh, you said you owned properties in Hawaii, which presumably you rent out, so what about the USD, or wait for it, you are so wealthy you do not need to! What's the AUD got to do with your income from properties in Hawaii and Thailand. StevieHawaii50! Book him Dano, b......t too much!

[seasia]

If I understand correctly it is the poster Duck J Butters who was claiming to own property in Phuket as well as other areas and talking it up.

I have no opinion on that.

 

It was Stevie Aus who made the comment that Duck sounded like a travel agent,Steve has not made property ownership claims that I have seen, just he made what I and a few others thought was a witty response.

Yet 2 posters are suggesting Stevie making Duck s claim, not so the way I read it.

 

Perhaps some confusion in quotes.

 

Quite an interesting thread.

[CharlieH]

Reported post with German language content removed.

[StevieAus]

46 minutes ago, AdamTheFarang said:

Where do you get all your money to buy all these properties? Are you yet another one who tells stories.....they used to be in the special forces, you can say anything on here. So you do not work and swim, but make huge amounts of money. Is that a pink pig I see flying past me. I lived in Phuket for 7 years and essentially it changed from being lovely, to being full of immigrant Thais trying to con any tourist or foreigner out of as much money as possible with no thought for the future. They openly admit this amongst themselves. Did you know that foreigners cannot but property in Phuket, or Thailand, except condos and there are many stories of properties being re-possessed and fraud etc You state you own properties in Hawaii and Thailand and are only 30 years old. Prove it, or shut up.  Most people come to Phuket with some money and end up with far less. You, however paint a heavenly view of your life, buying properties and swimming. What exactly do you do with these properties are clearly there are many empty rentals. StevieAus sounds Australian to me, but there I was thinking Hawaii was American, should that be Steve50 as in Hawaii 50! Lol, or StevieFullOfC..P 

You are responding to the wrong person it was not my post I was asking him if he was a travel agent as he was promoting the place so much

Dont disagree with your comments though

[StevieAus]

20 minutes ago, AdamTheFarang said:

Huh, you said you owned properties in Hawaii, which presumably you rent out, so what about the USD, or wait for it, you are so wealthy you do not need to! What's the AUD got to do with your income from properties in Hawaii and Thailand. StevieHawaii50! Book him Dano, b......t too much!

Read my post lower down you are again responding to the wrong person I did not lodge the original post I only made a comment in reply.

I have nothing to do with Hawaii or Phuket wouldn’t go near the place.

I am Australian and very proud of it.