[KETO] Just How Important are Carbohydrates for Athletes...Really?

[WaveHunter]

54 minutes ago, robblok said:

You are what they call a skinny fat person. My BMI is much higher then yours but with visible abs. Yes its probably your diet that makes it hard for you.

 

You might consider lifting some weights too not doing only cardio. 

 

I was fat but never a cannon ball belly (looks a lot like an insulin problem then cutting carbs is the way to go). When i was fat i was still active and lifting weights.. but my diet sucked. You cannot out train a bad diet. 

@robblok makes a good point.  Often if you’re not really obese but have a prominent “belly”, that’s indicative of a “fatty liver” condition caused by excessive carbs.  Same thing happens from excessive alcohol (beer belly).  Being “skinny fat” is pretty common.  Controlling high-sugar carbs (and excessive alcohol) will fix it fast.

[rumak]

On 7/18/2019 at 10:02 AM, WaveHunter said:

Look, I don’t know why you and certain other individuals seem to have a bug up their ass.  Nobody is forcing you to click on these topics.

hahaha   great that you don't take his crap.   He (and a few others)  only want THEIR topics and agendas

constantly repeated .  And of course his arguments and posts are always the same.   

What a laugh when negative people call others negative .   Its his trademark

[rumak]

On 7/18/2019 at 11:39 AM, WaveHunter said:

Why didn't my doctor advocate that...instead of prescription drugs?  Why did he not treat the underlying cause (poor nutrition) instead of treating only the symptoms

I am a little late to this topic.   Better late than never (well, some may not think so   haha)

I have at times advocated learning about one's body and finding ways to improve health, rather than

just taking pills or following "doctors orders".    Some here seem to "like" that approach, but I am sure many others do not.  There are always the usual "go to a doctor who KNOWS what to do"  retorts.

I have tried different approaches and foods/ supplements and think I am doing OK.  I too had to overcome some heath difficulties.    I think topics like this (keto) or similar ones draw some interest but the determining factor in my opinion is still each individuals determination to STICK TO a certain protocol for an extended time in order to see what the results are on his/her health.  

I won't win any fans by saying that I think most folks just don't think its worth it and don't have the willpower.  I think ones health is the most important factor in how one feels in general . Those that disagree can all go to hell !   haha  uh, just kidding ????    Don't forget that humor is also good for the soul .

[robblok]

1 hour ago, rumak said:

I am a little late to this topic.   Better late than never (well, some may not think so   haha)

I have at times advocated learning about one's body and finding ways to improve health, rather than

just taking pills or following "doctors orders".    Some here seem to "like" that approach, but I am sure many others do not.  There are always the usual "go to a doctor who KNOWS what to do"  retorts.

I have tried different approaches and foods/ supplements and think I am doing OK.  I too had to overcome some heath difficulties.    I think topics like this (keto) or similar ones draw some interest but the determining factor in my opinion is still each individuals determination to STICK TO a certain protocol for an extended time in order to see what the results are on his/her health.  

I won't win any fans by saying that I think most folks just don't think its worth it and don't have the willpower.  I think ones health is the most important factor in how one feels in general . Those that disagree can all go to hell !   haha  uh, just kidding ????    Don't forget that humor is also good for the soul .

Problem is always sticking to it, for me Keto is just not easy to stick with and when I did it it did not perform better then with carbs. Everyone is different but the one thing i know for sure consistency rules.

 

Also some people just wont make the sacrifices needed to get in shape. Its just a matter of choice what you want.. in shape healthy or eating and drinking whatever you  want. 

 

I have made it harder on myself now totally no sugary drinks anymore but i see the results from it. I was lean before.. now I am going to the next level. Also added cardio.. it all helps.. it all depends what your willing to do to change. 

[rumak]

28 minutes ago, robblok said:

I was lean before.. now I am going to the next level

I think the next level after lean is said to be MEAN.......   Those trolls better watch out 

 

BTW:  off topic but didn't we talk about Netflix a while back ?   Just finished 7 seasons of Homeland.

Not bad..... 

[robblok]

9 hours ago, rumak said:

I think the next level after lean is said to be MEAN.......   Those trolls better watch out 

 

BTW:  off topic but didn't we talk about Netflix a while back ?   Just finished 7 seasons of Homeland.

Not bad..... 

Could be that we talked about netflix.. i like it works good for me. I still have a program to download automatically other series i watch.

 

The next level after lean is shredded or super lean. I am always a bit mean or at least can be in my posting style. 

 

But I am actually quite happy that I am getting past barriers I had before (fat wise) I could always go down to a certain level (lean) but never much further then that. Now I am passing it probably because of cardio and really absolutely no sweet drinks. 

 

Also I had a diet break (something that might help others too) If you diet for too long its good to take a month of or so and start over again. My meaning of diet is caloric deficit. I always eat healthy but just ate a bit less. 

 

Ok I have eaten bad otherwise I did not gain the weight last year but that is more exception then the rule. Came because of sleep problems. 

 

But I am more and more convinced that people can get where they want if they want it bad enough and are willing to do enough / give up enough. No matter what they choose keto / vegetarianism / just carbs unprocessed and high protein + fat what I do. Just a matter of finding what works for you and stick with it. 

 

For me making small changes helps, i did not start cardio full blast and I am still not at full potential. I build it up slow otherwise i go crazy. Same with my diet.. took me a long time to 100% eliminate the sweet drinks. I still had the occasional one on a day now they are gone. 

 

Some people are really strong and can switch from bad to 100% good at once. I can mage a big change but going straight to perfection is impossible i need to go slow there to keep it mentally doable. I am still planning to add more cardio (HIIT rowing) but only after I conquered my sleeping problems totally. Because recovery is an issue the older you get. I am still not old 45 but still notice that i need to recover after heavy lifting sessions and too much exercise volume would break me down.

[rumak]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

older you get. I am still not old 45

ah yes,  i thought i remembered that you were still a young man.  My mind is still 30 but my athletic body went through a few major setbacks after 55.   I thought I ate healthy and had no need for supplements but was not fending off the aches and pains and energy loss of ageing.  I was getting frustrated. I did not eat much meat or fats before but have now been eating a keto style diet (again, not a 100%.... but definitely a big change).   

For me it has had a noticeable affect on my energy level with an increased positive outlook as an added result.  I take some what I believe are important supplements ...important because what I read and have taken to heart is that most of us are severely deficient in magnesium, vit D3... and a few other things.

Again, each person must research and form their own protocol, so I won't go into my personal details .

Thanks to you , wavehunter and the few others that share your experiences and ideas about health and fitness.  I am not a weight lifter but gardening and biking does keep me fairly fit for a guy in his late 60's.

I think you will find that as one ages there are always adjustments and new challenges to maintaining ones health.   But the need for willpower never changes.

 

[robblok]

11 minutes ago, rumak said:

ah yes,  i thought i remembered that you were still a young man.  My mind is still 30 but my athletic body went through a few major setbacks after 55.   I thought I ate healthy and had no need for supplements but was not fending off the aches and pains and energy loss of ageing.  I was getting frustrated. I did not eat much meat or fats before but have now been eating a keto style diet (again, not a 100%.... but definitely a big change).   

For me it has had a noticeable affect on my energy level with an increased positive outlook as an added result.  I take some what I believe are important supplements ...important because what I read and have taken to heart is that most of us are severely deficient in magnesium, vit D3... and a few other things.

Again, each person must research and form their own protocol, so I won't go into my personal details .

Thanks to you , wavehunter and the few others that share your experiences and ideas about health and fitness.  I am not a weight lifter but gardening and biking does keep me fairly fit for a guy in his late 60's.

I think you will find that as one ages there are always adjustments and new challenges to maintaining ones health.   But the need for willpower never changes.

 

I think you can keep certain things up quite a while i have seen real old weight lifters. However I notice that I can't recover as fast as I used to do. 

 

I take vit D magnesium and a few others. (more then a few) one thing i advise people not people on keto because they dont take many carbs is berberine (helps a lot to keep insulin in check).

 

I really never thought much about cardio hated it, i still don't love it but i think its together with lifting is key to stay healthy. Cardio does more for the heart then lifting. Lifting does more for preserving muscle and bone. Together they are golden.

 

I think everyone should find what suits them I am not a one thing suits everyone kind of guy. 

 

I think I am in pretty good shape the reason i push on is because I need a goal, and I can't get much stronger (not that i need it but i just like progress). So now my progress is getting leaner. Just maintenance is a bit boring for me I like to push myself. Even my dad loves to push himself on his bike. My mom always complains about that, that he wears himself down but its just what he (and I) like we need to feel our workout.

[ExpatOilWorker]

On 7/26/2019 at 10:33 AM, WaveHunter said:

@robblok makes a good point.  Often if you’re not really obese but have a prominent “belly”, that’s indicative of a “fatty liver” condition caused by excessive carbs.  Same thing happens from excessive alcohol (beer belly).  Being “skinny fat” is pretty common.  Controlling high-sugar carbs (and excessive alcohol) will fix it fast.

I have been on a Keto diet for the best part of 2 week and as an absolute novice It has been an interesting experience. Apart from a very light dizziness and a slight headache on day 4-5 it has been pretty smooth. Weight loss was about 4 kg in 14 days, but I still have a hint of a belly when standing up. I guess situps is the only way to tighten up a soft stomach?

 

Two other observations worth mention:

1. My resting pulse, as measured by fitbit watch, went from 45 to 58 during the Keto phase. Not sure why.

 

2. I do a fixed 40 minuted all out cardio on a fitness bike and when on Keto I could only do 540 cal vs. normally 660-700 cal during the 40 min. Make sense the body is struggling to feed the muscles with fuel when there are no carbs available. 

 

Good fun and thanks for all the tips on this thread.

 

 

 

[cooked]

55 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

I have been on a Keto diet for the best part of 2 week and as an absolute novice It has been an interesting experience. Apart from a very light dizziness and a slight headache on day 4-5 it has been pretty smooth. Weight loss was about 4 kg in 14 days, but I still have a hint of a belly when standing up. I guess situps is the only way to tighten up a soft stomach?

 

Two other observations worth mention:

1. My resting pulse, as measured by fitbit watch, went from 45 to 58 during the Keto phase. Not sure why.

 

2. I do a fixed 40 minuted all out cardio on a fitness bike and when on Keto I could only do 540 cal vs. normally 660-700 cal during the 40 min. Make sense the body is struggling to feed the muscles with fuel when there are no carbs available. 

 

Good fun and thanks for all the tips on this thread.

 

 

 

Congrats. !

Two weeks is much too short to come to any conclusions concerning athletic performance, which is why many studies purposely are timed for four weeks only, thus coming up with inaccurate conclusions. You will have to stay at it for at least another four weeks while your body becomes fat adapted.

[robblok]

4 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

I have been on a Keto diet for the best part of 2 week and as an absolute novice It has been an interesting experience. Apart from a very light dizziness and a slight headache on day 4-5 it has been pretty smooth. Weight loss was about 4 kg in 14 days, but I still have a hint of a belly when standing up. I guess situps is the only way to tighten up a soft stomach?

 

Two other observations worth mention:

1. My resting pulse, as measured by fitbit watch, went from 45 to 58 during the Keto phase. Not sure why.

 

2. I do a fixed 40 minuted all out cardio on a fitness bike and when on Keto I could only do 540 cal vs. normally 660-700 cal during the 40 min. Make sense the body is struggling to feed the muscles with fuel when there are no carbs available. 

 

Good fun and thanks for all the tips on this thread.

 

 

Just remember part of the weight you lost is water, no carbs means your holding a lot less water.

 

Maybe later you will be able to get higher with your cardio or not.. not everyone likes KETO and it does not work for everyone. If your cardio is really high intensity then KETO is not the best option.

 

Situps wont help you just have to lose more fat and maybe the skin needs some time to get back to normal. Situps will make your abs stronger and if lucky bigger (so they look good) but that wont happen fast. 

 

Often you need to go much lower in body-weight then you think before your truly lean its frustrating for everyone. Everyone always thinks they need to lose less weight then they really do.

 

Happy that keto works for you. 

[WaveHunter]

20 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

I have been on a Keto diet for the best part of 2 week and as an absolute novice It has been an interesting experience. Apart from a very light dizziness and a slight headache on day 4-5 it has been pretty smooth. Weight loss was about 4 kg in 14 days, but I still have a hint of a belly when standing up. I guess situps is the only way to tighten up a soft stomach?

 

Two other observations worth mention:

1. My resting pulse, as measured by fitbit watch, went from 45 to 58 during the Keto phase. Not sure why.

 

2. I do a fixed 40 minuted all out cardio on a fitness bike and when on Keto I could only do 540 cal vs. normally 660-700 cal during the 40 min. Make sense the body is struggling to feed the muscles with fuel when there are no carbs available. 

 

Good fun and thanks for all the tips on this thread.

 

 

 

Nice!  Glad you’re having a positive experience, and you’re only 2 weeks into it so you have much more positive experiences to come.  You are slowly but surely becoming “keto-adapted”.  That takes time.  The whole idea behind keto-style nutrition is that redefines the metabolic pathways of energy production so that the body becomes more and more able to use fats (both dietary and those stored in the body) as an efficient fuel source.

 

That adaptation can take months to fully happen, so things like your resting metabolic rate, VO2 max when exercising, symptoms associated with lower carbs, etc, will gradually change in a positive direction.

 

My advice would be to just keep reading up on “keto adaptation” and make yourself well-informed about all of this.  It’s all still very much on the cutting edge, and there’s not yet a consensus on how it all really works, say staying informed is pretty important (and actually pretty fascinating, providing you get your information from legitimate sources.

 

Remember, it’s not just a “diet”, it’s a life-long health lifestyle.

 

Anyway, just wanted to give you a thumbs-up since the majority of people who try keto rarely have the right goal in mind (looking at it only as a temporary weight loss diet), or do it the right way, and rarely get beyond a week or two before giving up.

[WaveHunter]

16 hours ago, robblok said:

Just remember part of the weight you lost is water, no carbs means your holding a lot less water.

 

Maybe later you will be able to get higher with your cardio or not.. not everyone likes KETO and it does not work for everyone. If your cardio is really high intensity then KETO is not the best option.

 

Situps wont help you just have to lose more fat and maybe the skin needs some time to get back to normal. Situps will make your abs stronger and if lucky bigger (so they look good) but that wont happen fast. 

 

Often you need to go much lower in body-weight then you think before your truly lean its frustrating for everyone. Everyone always thinks they need to lose less weight then they really do.

 

Happy that keto works for you. 

I don’t think weight loss from water is that much in his case because he’s only reducing carbs, not eliminating them.  You can be in maximum ketosis while still ingesting carbs so skeletal muscles are not severely being deprived of glycogen, only the liver is.  And, as his body becomes more keto-adapted over time, glycogen to the muscles will only improve.

[robblok]

41 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

I don’t think weight loss from water is that much in his case because he’s only reducing carbs, not eliminating them.  You can be in maximum ketosis while still ingesting carbs so skeletal muscles are not severely being deprived of glycogen, only the liver is.  And, as his body becomes more keto-adapted over time, glycogen to the muscles will only improve.

He said he was on a keto diet.. to me that means no carbs ore little.. with his cardio combined in 2 weeks he would have gotten rid of all his glycogen. I see this happening with myself if i train a lot and take less carbs.. i can then predict my weights will be lower. Just my opinion of course.

[eezergood]

On 8/15/2019 at 1:59 PM, ExpatOilWorker said:

I have been on a Keto diet for the best part of 2 week and as an absolute novice It has been an interesting experience. Apart from a very light dizziness and a slight headache on day 4-5 it has been pretty smooth. Weight loss was about 4 kg in 14 days, but I still have a hint of a belly when standing up. I guess situps is the only way to tighten up a soft stomach?

 

Two other observations worth mention:

1. My resting pulse, as measured by fitbit watch, went from 45 to 58 during the Keto phase. Not sure why.

 

2. I do a fixed 40 minuted all out cardio on a fitness bike and when on Keto I could only do 540 cal vs. normally 660-700 cal during the 40 min. Make sense the body is struggling to feed the muscles with fuel when there are no carbs available. 

 

Good fun and thanks for all the tips on this thread.

 

 

 

Firstly HUGE congrats for the results and for changing your lifestyle!

 

RE - your fitbit, please remember to use this as a barometer of performance NOT an absolute. Therefore as long as your cals/workout keep increasing then thats great, however the number they give you will NOT be accurate. I would also check your pulse from a different source, I would really question (give that you just stated to do cardio) if you have a resting BP so low. I was a cardio nut and never got mine into the 40's or even mid 50's bpm

 

That said WELL DONE AGAIN 

 

[dontoearth]

On 7/22/2019 at 10:41 PM, WaveHunter said:

Most people find they can accomplish far more than they believe.  Just about everybody is capable of such changes if they are truly serious about fat loss.  It all really boils down to how much you really want it. 

   It is more than how much you want it!  It is what you are willing to do to achieve it!

[WaveHunter]

13 hours ago, dontoearth said:

   It is more than how much you want it!  It is what you are willing to do to achieve it!

Well, everything in life has its' price but most worthwhile things in life are far easier than we perceive them to be.  I don't think it's as much about what you're willing to do to achieve a goal as it is about just putting one foot in front of the other and DOING it instead of thinking about it and finding excuses not to do it.

 

Too many people know what to do to make their life better but get overwhelmed by the magnitude of their goal(s).  For many, they will just say "mañana", putting off just getting started today until tomorrow...and tomorrow never comes.  As the saying goes, "A journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step"

 

Going to the gym to get in shape is a perfect example.  Personally I HATE "going" to the gym but once I walk in the door and start a workout, everything is fine.  The trick is just to get yourself in the front door; the rest is fairly easy, and once getting in the door becomes a habit, it becomes far harder NOT to go!  The same mindset applies to proper nutrition, work, play, and everything that makes your life better.  My motto: Don't be a procrastinator, just do it!

 

[robblok]

21 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

Well, everything in life has its' price but most worthwhile things in life are far easier than we perceive them to be.  I don't think it's as much about what you're willing to do to achieve a goal as it is about just putting one foot in front of the other and DOING it instead of thinking about it and finding excuses not to do it.

 

Too many people know what to do to make their life better but get overwhelmed by the magnitude of their goal(s).  For many, they will just say "mañana", putting off just getting started today until tomorrow...and tomorrow never comes.  As the saying goes, "A journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step"

 

Going to the gym to get in shape is a perfect example.  Personally I HATE "going" to the gym but once I walk in the door and start a workout, everything is fine.  The trick is just to get yourself in the front door; the rest is fairly easy, and once getting in the door becomes a habit, it becomes far harder NOT to go!  The same mindset applies to proper nutrition, work, play, and everything that makes your life better.  My motto: Don't be a procrastinator, just do it!

 

Agreed its just doing it and then adding more and more. Its not a good thing to go full crazy at once. I normally build things on step by step.

 

I dont always like going to the gym, yesterday I really did not want to go but I did anyway and once i was there i had a great workout.

 

Making things an habit is the key.

[UbonThani]

On 8/15/2019 at 4:59 PM, ExpatOilWorker said:

I have been on a Keto diet for the best part of 2 week and as an absolute novice It has been an interesting experience. Apart from a very light dizziness and a slight headache on day 4-5 it has been pretty smooth. Weight loss was about 4 kg in 14 days, but I still have a hint of a belly when standing up. I guess situps is the only way to tighten up a soft stomach?

 

Two other observations worth mention:

1. My resting pulse, as measured by fitbit watch, went from 45 to 58 during the Keto phase. Not sure why.

 

2. I do a fixed 40 minuted all out cardio on a fitness bike and when on Keto I could only do 540 cal vs. normally 660-700 cal during the 40 min. Make sense the body is struggling to feed the muscles with fuel when there are no carbs available. 

 

Good fun and thanks for all the tips on this thread.

 

 

 

Keto + fasting will work even better. Plus walking and weights and you will be a machine in 3 months.

[eezergood]

VERY unlikely he was in ketosis within 2 weeks, but whatever works for him 

[WaveHunter]

34 minutes ago, eezergood said:

VERY unlikely he was in ketosis within 2 weeks, but whatever works for him 

Why would you say that?

[UbonThani]

Only takes 2 to 4 days to enter ketosis. The headache on days 4 and 5 would be a sign of it.

[WaveHunter]

1 hour ago, UbonThani said:

Only takes 2 to 4 days to enter ketosis. The headache on days 4 and 5 would be a sign of it.

Exactly!  Limiting carbohydrates (especially those found in processed foods) and allowing the body to become fat-adapted (use fat as fuel rather than rely on carbs completely) through ketosis is one of the easiest ways to vastly and very quickly improve your health, not to mention lose excess body fat. 

 

You will encounter a lot of naysayers, but the science behind the ketogenic state and periodic fasting is solid and undeniable. 

 

Kudos to you for exploring this ????

 

[eezergood]

28 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Exactly!  Limiting carbohydrates (especially those found in processed foods) and allowing the body to become fat-adapted (use fat as fuel rather than rely on carbs completely) through ketosis is one of the easiest ways to vastly and very quickly improve your health, not to mention lose excess body fat. 

 

You will encounter a lot of naysayers, but the science behind the ketogenic state and periodic fasting is solid and undeniable. 

 

Kudos to you for exploring this ????

 

I agree - the time limit in order to get into ketosis however is not as stated in the anecdotal evidence above. 

 

[cooked]

1 hour ago, UbonThani said:

Only takes 2 to 4 days to enter ketosis. The headache on days 4 and 5 would be a sign of it.

Four weeks is generally accepted as a minimum, athletes are asking all the time if they can go Keto for a race in a few weeks time, answer is no. Depends on age also.

The process of going into ketosis may well begin after a few days.

[WaveHunter]

36 minutes ago, eezergood said:

I agree - the time limit in order to get into ketosis however is not as stated in the anecdotal evidence above. 

 

Well actually it is, depending on how much you curtail carbohydrates.  If you stay below 50 grams per day, most people will enter ketosis within 3-5 days. 

 

Personally I get into ketosis with a 72 hour water fast combined with moderate aerobic exercise (running), and I am in ketosis within 48 hours.  I do this several times a year for general health maintenance (i.e.: anti-inflammatory and autophagy...think of it as a sort of "spring house cleaning" regime. ????

 

This is very science-based, not at all anecdotal.  In scientific terms this chart shows the stages of getting into a fasted state:

 

The stages are:

Feeding – During meals, insulin levels are raised. This allows uptake of glucose into tissues such as the muscle or brain to be used directly for energy. Excess glucose is stored as glycogen in the liver.

 

The post-absorptive phase – 6-24 hours after beginning fasting.   Insulin levels start to fall. Breakdown of glycogen releases glucose for energy. Glycogen stores last for roughly 24 hours.

 

Gluconeogenesis – 24 hours to 2 days – The liver manufactures new glucose from amino acids in a process called “gluconeogenesis”. Literally, this is translated as “making new glucose”. In non-diabetic persons, glucose levels fall but stay within the normal range.

 

Ketosis – 2-3 days after beginning fasting – The low levels of insulin reached during fasting stimulate lipolysis, the breakdown of fat for energy. The storage form of fat, known as triglycerides, is broken into the glycerol backbone and three fatty acid chains. Glycerol is used for gluconeogenesis. Fatty acids may be used for directly for energy by many tissues in the body, but not the brain. Ketone bodies, capable of crossing the blood-brain barrier, are produced from fatty acids for use by the brain. After four days of fasting, approximately 75% of the energy used by the brain is provided by ketones. The two major types of ketones produced are beta hydroxybutyrate and acetoacetate, which can increase over 70 fold during fasting.

 

Protein conservation phase – >5 days – High levels of growth hormone maintain muscle mass and lean tissues. The energy for maintenance of basal metabolism is almost entirely met by the use of free fatty acids and ketones. Increased norepinephrine (adrenalin) levels prevent the decrease in metabolic rate.

 

FYI, I have been curious enough about the science of all of this to have undergone a self-imposed 7 day water fast (i.e.: no food at all for 7 days, only water and electrolytes), and my experiences were pretty much in line with what is described above...i.e.: no health issues at all (and I had blood tests before and after the fast), no significantly loss of lean body mass (muscle) at all, only stored body fat...and, the big key to success is that I stayed active the whole time (walks, light running or swimming in the cooler evening hours since I was here in Thailand and did this in the hot season).

[WaveHunter]

28 minutes ago, cooked said:

Four weeks is generally accepted as a minimum, athletes are asking all the time if they can go Keto for a race in a few weeks time, answer is no. Depends on age also.

The process of going into ketosis may well begin after a few days.

That is a little misleading.  For athletes who are interested in ketosis, it is because they want to become more "fat-adapted".  That means they want to alter their metabolism to burn fat as a primary fuel more effectively, and be less reliant on carbohydrates in order to avoid "bonking" without the need for sports gels or snacks while competing. 

 

THAT can takes weeks for the body to become fully adapted, but ketosis becomes highly beneficial as soon as glycogen is exhausted and in response to that, ketones bodies are providing sufficient fuel for the brain, and fatty acids are being mobilized due to lowered insulin response resulting from lowered carb intake.

 

The key is limitation of carbs.  If carbs are being consumed above around 50 grams a day, insulin response will be to high to allow ketosis to happen.

 

Ketosis indeed happens in as little as 48 hours if water-fasting, and 3-5 days if carbs are limited to around 50 grams per day.

[Ventenio]

What about age?

 

I think you when you're older you deal with insulin differently.  I do.  I only care about carbs the night before a race.  It might just be psychological.  I don't care.  Body doesn't have to break down meat and worst case I ate a little too much.  Efforts range from 15 minutes to 2 hours, so I don't need crazy storage for that.  There is NO way i'll cut carbs off forever, but I respect those who choose that lifestyle.  I'm a big fan of water, fruit, spinach, carrots, pasta, tomatoes, and coffee.  If i eat mushrooms instead of a donut, fine.  if not, fine.  my body generally tells me what i want.  today it wanted oranges.  great.  last night, fish.  

 

   

[WaveHunter]

57 minutes ago, Ventenio said:

What about age?

 

I think you when you're older you deal with insulin differently.  I do.  I only care about carbs the night before a race.  It might just be psychological.  I don't care.  Body doesn't have to break down meat and worst case I ate a little too much.  Efforts range from 15 minutes to 2 hours, so I don't need crazy storage for that.  There is NO way i'll cut carbs off forever, but I respect those who choose that lifestyle.  I'm a big fan of water, fruit, spinach, carrots, pasta, tomatoes, and coffee.  If i eat mushrooms instead of a donut, fine.  if not, fine.  my body generally tells me what i want.  today it wanted oranges.  great.  last night, fish.  

 

   

Most athletes who embrace keto to become fat-adapted (or keto-adapted, which means the same thing) don't forego carbs entirely and many do not even limit them in their long-term nutritional plan.  Once you become keto-adapted, your body remembers.  You can eat carbs as long as you periodically enter ketosis to reinforce the metabolic pathways associated with fat burning.

 

The way I, and many other athletes do it is through "intermittent fasting".  Once you are keto-adapted, it's not so much about limited carbs as it is the frequency that you consume them, and the type of carbs you consume.

 

I alternate between one-meal-a-day (OMAD) and two-meals a day (TMAD).  I limit my eating to a window of only a few hours in the case of OMAD or 8 hours a day in TMAD, and no food at all least for 5 hours before sleep.  This allows you to be in a semi-fasted state for most of the day (i.e.: low insulin release).

 

The problem with the typical diet of most people is they are never in a fasted state, and thus their insulin levels are always super high.  We, as a society have turned into "food grazers"; we are eating from the moment we awake to the moment we go to sleep. 

 

NOT GOOD because as long as insulin remains high, your body can not access stored body fat; it can only store it! This is a simple but important fact to realize! 

 

Secondly, I am VERY careful to not consume processed foods as much as possible since they usually contain bad cards such as high fructose corn syrup, and keep source of carbs to things like fruit, rice, etc.)

 

The whole idea being to keep insulin levels low enough to be on the edge of ketosis, and occasionally I do a 72 hour fast to sort of reinforce the fat-adapted state. 

 

In other words, you can maintain full keto adaptation while still being able to consume carbohydrates if you do it the right way.

 

That's my personal protocol and it works well for me and I have all the energy I need for a pretty active lifestyle (strenuous mountain biking several days a week, running a few km's per day, 3 trips to the gym weekly, and swimming a mile a day.)  I'm never really overly hungry or lacking energy, and I know for a fac my metabolic health is much better as a result since it is proven in blood tests. 

 

Metabolic health is the main reason I do all of this.  Several years ago I was pre-diabetic and hypertensive.  Once I changed my diet, those problems quickly went away. 

 

Metabolic inflammation is really the leading cause of many diseases, including things like Alzheimers and parkinson disease, not to mention DIabetes and coronary disease.  Becoming more keto-adapted is a small price to pay for avoiding this IMHO.

 

[UbonThani]

2 hours ago, cooked said:

Four weeks is generally accepted as a minimum, athletes are asking all the time if they can go Keto for a race in a few weeks time, answer is no. Depends on age also.

The process of going into ketosis may well begin after a few days.

4 weeks is for proper fat adaption as the major source without headaches and loss of energy. Start of keto is 2 to 4 days however. A serious keto runner would prepare months in advance however with diet planned out.

 

If you just want to lose weight then the weight will start dropping off after day 4 or 5 on a keto diet. The first 4 days loss will mainly be water loss.