Vientiane Tourist Visa Update: Many People Denied

[matt9998]

I went for a visa run last week to Vientiane and was ultimately rejected. My friend and I both made an appointment around a month in advance and showed up on time. We were sent to different windows. He has 5 back to back tourist visas while I have 3. However, I previously had a work permit last year.  The consular official at his window warned him he may not be approved if he didn't provide a flight ticket out and a bank statement showing sufficient financial means of staying in Thailand.   He was able to book and print a flight on the spot but was unable to provide a bank statement at the time. I was told nothing and simply handed a receipt to pickup my passport with a fresh 60 day SETV tomorrow. At this point I thought I was in the clear and he could possibly get rejected.

 

The next day we went to pickup our passports and again there are two lines. The left line is the "fast" line with people spending 30 seconds at the window, getting their passport, and continuing on their way.  The lady organizing the lines had a piece of paper with queue numbers written on it. If your number was written down you would be going to the right line which is the rejection/problem line.  My friend's number was on the paper and he was directed to the line on the right. My number was not on the paper and I was sent to the fast track line on the left. Upon meeting the consular officer at the left window I was informed to go to the right line. This is when I knew I was in for some problems.

 

The consular officer on the right window informed me I was rejected and couldn't reapply or show additional proof such as a flight or bank statement. There were no marks or stamp in my passport indicating I was denied.

 

My friend was asked to go the office next door and wait for an interview with the head consular officer who makes the decisions on issuing visas. He was able to print a bank statement and provided that as well. After waiting ~2 hours he has informed that his visa application was approved and he got the SETV in his passport with no other markings or stamps.

 

I would estimate 40% of applicants were denied visas that day. This would be at least 80 people. Roughly 10-15 people were granted interviews or asked for additional information. One couple was asked to show a bank account with at least "200k baht". They said they didnt have this much money and were quickly told the rejection would not be over turned. My friend has 100k in his bank account and they didnt seem to give him any problems.

 

If you plan to apply for a visa I would provide as much documentation as possible if you have more than a couple tourist visas in the last 6 months. They are really cracking down and Vientiane would not be a place i'd recommend to go to for a visa run anymore.

[brewsterbudgen]

Thanks for the update.  Were you given a reason for the denial?  Were you then able to re-enter Thailand at the border as visa-exempt?

[JAG]

18 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Thanks for the update.  Were you given a reason for the denial?  Were you then able to re-enter Thailand at the border as visa-exempt?

They both had back to back tourist visas, 5 (450 days) and 3 (270 days respectively).

Rather stretching the idea of tourists - the consular officials almost certainly thought that they were living in Thailand on tourist visas.

 

It is most likely as simple as that.

[SicTransit]

Rather stretching the idea of tourists - the consular officials almost certainly thought that they were living in Thailand on tourist visas.

Living as in having access to social security, health insurance and other rights? Good job then getting rid of that potential burden on Thai society! That’ll show them freeloading western immigrants.

Did they also get to keep the visa fee?

[GeorgeCross]

the queues at savanakhet are going to be getting a lot longer once word gets around.

 

to the OP how comes you didn't get an interview? do you think it was the previous work permit and did you get back in at the border or still in laos?

 

 

Edited July 21, 2019 by GeorgeCross

[lemonjelly]

<<One couple was asked to show a bank account with at least "200k baht".>>

wonder what that’s about.....

[wxyz1]

As a black African, I got the same interview in Vietnam and Cambodia almost 20 years ago. As a result, I switched to a Non-B based extension of stay, and it ultimately solved my problems.

[JAG]

1 hour ago, SicTransit said:

 

Living as in having access to social security, health insurance and other rights? Good job then getting rid of that potential burden on Thai society! That’ll show them freeloading western immigrants.

Did they also get to keep the visa fee?

 

No, living as in residing here for an extended period, irrespective of social security and health insurance - something to which many if not most Thais have no access.

 

Look, Thailand's visa rules allow for tourists to enter for sixty days, which can be extended by another thirty days. Three months as a tourist. If you want to live here you need to fulfil certain criteria (less onerous than for many countries!). If you have a properly constituted job then an appropriate visa (non immigrant B) can be obtained. If you are married to a Thai then you can get a non immigrant type O. These are also available to retired people over 50 with sufficient funds. If you're under 50, but fortunate enough to be "a person of leisure" then the "elite" visa is available. But the authorities have made it quite clear, and are now enforcing the rules to ensure, that living in Thailand on back to back tourist visas is not accepted.

 

The queues at Savannahket may well get longer, but I suspect that they will also turn away people seeking consequetive tourist visas. It is, quite simply no longer an option. There is ample provision for visas if you wish to live here, according to the rules laid down by the country. 

 

[SicTransit]

But the authorities have made it quite clear, and are now enforcing the rules to ensure, that living in Thailand on back to back tourist visas is not accepted.

I’m betting my top baht you cannot cite those rules.

[JAG]

9 minutes ago, SicTransit said:

 

I’m betting my top baht you cannot cite those rules.

 

Your top baht are quite safe, I can't cite those rules. Nevertheless they are obviously being applied aren't they?

Edited July 21, 2019 by JAG

[Mikisteel]

Forgive me but why else do you need to visit Vientiane if not for reentry to Thailand. Am I being ignorant, do people actually visit Vientiane for other purposes?

 

Does this not put a major dent in the hotel economy in Vientiane?

 

Maybe I'm just not aware I just did mot see many people doing anything but get Visa's whilst there twice, previously.

[StayinThailand2much]

7 minutes ago, Mikisteel said:

Forgive me but why else do you need to visit Vientiane if not for reentry to Thailand. Am I being ignorant, do people actually visit Vientiane for other purposes?

 

Does this not put a major dent in the hotel economy in Vientiane?

 

Maybe I'm just not aware I just did mot see many people doing anything but get Visa's whilst there twice, previously.

Vientiane is a very nice place to visit in its own right, even though it hasn't got a nightlife a la Bangkok. But yes, many visitors travel there to procure a Thailand visa.

 

Will the hospitality industry suffer if visitors' Thai visa applications are declined? Most probably. Will Thai officials, working in Laos, or Thailand's government give a rat's a** about the repercussions for a neighbouring country's tourism industry? I really doubt it!

[matt9998]

4 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Thanks for the update.  Were you given a reason for the denial?  Were you then able to re-enter Thailand at the border as visa-exempt?

No reason was given other than "my boss reject you sorry ka".  Yes I was able to get back in after greasing a couple palms so to speak. I was definitely sweating.

[matt9998]

3 hours ago, SicTransit said:

 

Living as in having access to social security, health insurance and other rights? Good job then getting rid of that potential burden on Thai society! That’ll show them freeloading western immigrants.

Did they also get to keep the visa fee?

 

In Vientiane you pay the day after when you receive your visa. As I was rejected I didn't have to pay anything.

[matt9998]

3 hours ago, GeorgeCross said:

the queues at savanakhet are going to be getting a lot longer once word gets around.

 

to the OP how comes you didn't get an interview? do you think it was the previous work permit and did you get back in at the border or still in laos?

 

 

I believe it was because I provided no supporting documentation to give the consul an idea as to my financial situation. Had I provided a bank statement and a flight ticket out I feel I would have gotten approved. This is all speculation however I did speak to a few foreigners who ended up getting approved and the common theme was all provided some sort of additional documentation.

[matt9998]

2 hours ago, lemonjelly said:

<<One couple was asked to show a bank account with at least "200k baht".>>

wonder what that’s about.....

They fit the backpacker on a shoe string budget mold. They even came in wearing giant backpacks and gave the impression they are not so well off. This may or may not be true but to the consular officials their looks may have gotten them scrutinized. The 200k was likely a number she pulled out a hat just to scare them away and keep the line moving.

[StayinThailand2much]

9 minutes ago, matt9998 said:

I believe it was because I provided no supporting documentation to give the consul an idea as to my financial situation. Had I provided a bank statement and a flight ticket out I feel I would have gotten approved. This is all speculation however I did speak to a few foreigners who ended up getting approved and the common theme was all provided some sort of additional documentation.

Are there any announcements in writing there, asking for flight tickets and financial statements, or did they just ask for these additional documents after you turned in the "usual" supporting documents?

[matt9998]

2 minutes ago, StayinThailand2much said:

Are there any announcements in writing there, asking for flight tickets and financial statements, or did they just ask for these additional documents after you turned in the "usual" supporting documents?

No announcements. My friend was told in person at the window. It is not listed on any of the websites or written anywhere. The required documents are just the form, passport, and 2 pictures of yourself.

Edited July 21, 2019 by matt9998

[StayinThailand2much]

1 minute ago, matt9998 said:

No announcements. My friend was told in person at the window. It is not listed on any of the websites or written anywhere. The required documents are just the form, passport, and 2 pictures of yourself.

Strange. So they must have just come up with these new requirements. Either a Bangkok directive from the new minister in charge, or a new consul...

[Silentwalker]

Firstly, thanks for sharing this. You gave a lot of details to help the rest of us understand what's going on up there. I'm curious to know, other than 3 back to back TVs and a non-imm. B, what else do you have in your passport? Any tamps from in-out border runs, overstays etc.?  
I find it very strange that they gave your friend a chance but not you, despite his visa history looking more suspicious. Were all of those TVs from Vientiane or mixed up? It's possible that your last work permit made them think you're still working here. 

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, JAG said:

Your top baht are quite safe, I can't cite those rules. Nevertheless they are obviously being applied aren't they?

Well, some sort of unofficial rules are being applied in some locations. The problem is trying to figure out exactly what those rules are, and in which locations they are being applied. Further, it often seems that individual officials have their own interpretations of those rules. I guess the safe approach would be to assume that you might be denied entry as a tourist if you have ever been in Thailand before. (Note the recent report of someone denied entry on a first tourist visa because he had worked as a teacher in Thailand before. Find the official reason under Section 12 of the Immigration Act that covers that one!)

[G950]

It is interesting that they asked for a bank statement of 200k as that is the amount required for a METV in most western countries. It is normally just 20k for a SETV. 

[SpanishExpat]

200k aka 5000€ was always the requirement for a METV. It was the most important thing, where they always looked carefully at (talking about the Embassy in Germany). Even if you had 5000€, they were suspicious as some people just had a few Euro more over that minimum requirement. The were asked then to show the transactions from the last few weeks to see if a big amount was just transferred from another account for the sake of having 5000€. 

 

Seems the are implementing that rule now as well for SETV and it will be quite annoying. I fully understand that there are many people who can`t show 200K/5000€ for various reasons. After all it`s still a short-term tourism visa.

Edited July 21, 2019 by SpanishExpat

[tabarin]

My previous topic was closed due to some trolls but I made it back without problems, many rejections on my day too though.
And visa fee is always paid on pick-up day.

Edited July 21, 2019 by tabarin

[lkv]

26 minutes ago, BritTim said:

Note the recent report of someone denied entry on a first tourist visa because he had worked as a teacher in Thailand before. Find the official reason under Section 12 of the Immigration Act that covers that one!)

You don't know how many tourist visas he had before the non B extensions.

 

He had a blue stamp on his tourist visa from Phnom Pehn, which he did not address. Maybe the consul saw prior tourist visa history going back a few years.

 

He did not address the issue of leaving without a WP being cancelled.

 

And a few more flags.

 

And yet, it's now quoted as a fact where people make future decisions on.

Edited July 21, 2019 by lkv

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, lkv said:

You don't know how many tourist visas he had before the non B extensions.

True, he might have been lying, but I did not get that impression.

[elviajero]

5 hours ago, SicTransit said:

5 hours ago, JAG said:

But the authorities have made it quite clear, and are now enforcing the rules to ensure, that living in Thailand on back to back tourist visas is not accepted.

I’m betting my top baht you cannot cite those rules.

 

Here is a quote from a memo giving guidance to IO’s when considering visa exempt entrance for tourism;

   “The alien must not enter the Kingdom by exploiting 30­ day visa exemptions undertaking method “in­out” or called by foreigners as “Visa run”. Aliens use the advantage of Tourist Visa Exemption by leaving Thailand and returning immediately for the purpose of extending their stay, which is considered from the tourism point of view to be longer than necessary and not in line with the purpose permitted while entering country.”

 

The same principle is being applied — to a lesser extent — to those now forced into using Tourist Visas instead of Visa Exemption.

 

Anyone that has not got the message yet has their head in the sand.

 

[Date Masamune]

I’m betting my top baht you cannot cite those rules.

The law in Thailand are whatever Somchai with a badge, in this case Immigration police. Quoting the “rules” makes no difference.

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, elviajero said:

Here is a quote from a memo giving guidance to IO’s when considering visa exempt entrance for tourism;

   “The alien must not enter the Kingdom by exploiting 30­ day visa exemptions undertaking method “in­out” or called by foreigners as “Visa run”. Aliens use the advantage of Tourist Visa Exemption by leaving Thailand and returning immediately for the purpose of extending their stay, which is considered from the tourism point of view to be longer than necessary and not in line with the purpose permitted while entering country.”

 

The same principle is being applied — to a lesser extent — to those now forced into using Tourist Visas instead of Visa Exemption.

 

Anyone that has not got the message yet has their head in the sand.

To reiterate what has been pointed out many times before:

• Deciding whether people qualify for visa exempt entry is the responsibility of immigration. They have been given guidance, via publicly announcements with an announced date of introduction, on how they should discharge that responsibility.
• There has been no announcement that immigration, rather than embassies/consulates, are now responsible for deciding whether people should be issued tourist visas. Should such a major policy change have occurred, it is bizarre that it has not been announced. Indeed, I would have expected (as with the official rule changes you cited) that its date of introduction would also be made known.

Some have pointed out that, official or not, new rules are being applied, and visitors just have to accept them. That is true, but I am not going to pretend I find such third country type unchecked power to arbitrarily deny entry in the hands of individual officials is admirable.

[JAG]

5 hours ago, BritTim said:

Well, some sort of unofficial rules are being applied in some locations. The problem is trying to figure out exactly what those rules are, and in which locations they are being applied. Further, it often seems that individual officials have their own interpretations of those rules. I guess the safe approach would be to assume that you might be denied entry as a tourist if you have ever been in Thailand before. (Note the recent report of someone denied entry on a first tourist visa because he had worked as a teacher in Thailand before. Find the official reason under Section 12 of the Immigration Act that covers that one!)

I rather suspect that the instruction/briefed intent to those concerned with issuing Tourist Visas is to deny them to those suspected of using them to live in Thailand. As you say, multiple back to back visas with a record of having worked will certainly create that suspicion. It is perhaps an exaggeration to say that you can expect to be denied a tourist visa if you have visited Thailand before. It is probably accurate to say that you will possibly/probably be turned away if you are applying for consecutive Tourist Visas. They will assume - in all probability correctly - that you are using the Tourist Visas to live in Thailand.