2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

There is definite evidence that the Romans grew grapes in the UK, Iron age villages being built on higher ground, and Vikings farming in Greenland, all which lead people to believe it was warmer in the past.

Oh yes, I agree, warmer, but how warm and for what part of the year, we know not.  Of course, as the English wine industry testifies, you can  grow grapes in the country now. Orchids grow in Inverness and palm trees in Cromarty.  Nothing  new under the Sun, excuse the pun. 

7 hours ago, Pilotman said:

There were no temperature readings available in Roman times, so we don't know. We can speculate, but speculation is often wrong and certainly not in any way scientific.  

 

But it is possible to scientifically analyse the "natural" record (tree ring growth, etc).

 

And compare it with recorded data since the 19th century.

 

This is the result (University of Bern, Switzerland):

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-49086783

 

The research also shows that previously the warming was regionally "localised" (ie the "Roman Warm Period" across Europe), but it has now become "worldwide".

 

 

 

 

7 hours ago, gunderhill said:

Meanwhile last  month the news was spouting this https://electroverse.net/central-england-on-course-for-its-17th-coldest-june-in-360-years-of-records-crop-concerns-grand-solar-minimum/

Another one that doesnt know the difference between weather and climate.

35 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Another one that doesnt know the difference between weather and climate.

I seriously doubt it's even true. The European mainland had its hottest ever June and the UK had a colder than average June? I would say it's virtually impossible.

8 hours ago, Pilotman said:

Oh yes, I agree, warmer, but how warm and for what part of the year, we know not.  Of course, as the English wine industry testifies, you can  grow grapes in the country now. Orchids grow in Inverness and palm trees in Cromarty.  Nothing  new under the Sun, excuse the pun. 

You may grow grapes, but it doesn't mean you can make drinkable wine with them. For example, the famous wines made along the Rhein valley in Germany are in fact from local grapes generously mixed with grapes from the Mediterranean. A grape needs a minimum amount of intense sunshine to develope the sugar needed during fermentation to turn into alcohol. Taste and flavor might well be from the local variety.

Who would have imagined, fleeing to 30 C Thailand so that you can escape the 40 C European heat? The world is totally upside down now! Who are the real climate refugees now?

Numerous posts and deflections have been removed.   Please stay on topic.  

5 hours ago, arithai12 said:

You may grow grapes, but it doesn't mean you can make drinkable wine with them. For example, the famous wines made along the Rhein valley in Germany are in fact from local grapes generously mixed with grapes from the Mediterranean. A grape needs a minimum amount of intense sunshine to develope the sugar needed during fermentation to turn into alcohol. Taste and flavor might well be from the local variety.

Maybe cheap wines made in Germany are but even that I doubt. Germany has very strict laws about what goes into their wines. Adulteration is out of the question. Of course, with climate change, their sugar/alcohol content is rising.

10 hours ago, Sujo said:

Another one that doesnt know the difference between weather and climate.

Another one  who  clearly  missed  the point.

7 hours ago, Falconator said:

Who would have imagined, fleeing to 30 C Thailand so that you can escape the 40 C European heat? The world is totally upside down now! Who are the real climate refugees now?

The big difference is, at least in the UK, it may well snow next week. For sure the temperatures will drop below 15 degrees and it will get to its usual wet, windy and miserable phase soon enough. 

3 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

The big difference is, at least in the UK, it may well snow next week. For sure the temperatures will drop below 15 degrees and it will get to its usual wet, windy and miserable phase soon enough. 

So while the rest of the world increasingly warms, the UK's climate will remain unchanged?

9 minutes ago, gunderhill said:

Another one  who  clearly  missed  the point.

you mean the information you got from that electroverse site is valid? You honestly believe that June in the UK was atypically cold even though the for the rest of Europe was the hottest ever june on record? I guess the UK truly is a world apart.

Just now, bristolboy said:

you mean the information you got from that electroverse site is valid? You honestly believe that June in the UK was atypically cold even though the for the rest of Europe was the hottest ever june on record? I guess the UK truly is a world apart.

And another  missed  point, its  about "being told"  first its  going to be record  cold then record  hot is headlined, neither are actually  records in earths long   history and CO2 is incredibly  low also at the moment.

7 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

So while the rest of the world increasingly warms, the UK's climate will remain unchanged?

No, it will just become a more extreme version of the same thing.  It's not going to turn into the Mediterranean due to climate change, just a worse version of what it has always been. 

Just now, Pilotman said:

No, it will be just more extremes of the same thing.  It's not going to turn into the Mediterranean due to climate change, just a worse version of what it has always been. 

So you're claiming there's going to be colder extremes as well in the UK?

3 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

So you're claiming there's going to be colder extremes as well in the UK?

No idea and I  don't care. I don't live there anymore and frankly, I don't care much what happens to the place.  Just passing the time of day over my morning coffee before I get on with the rest of the day.  

In today’s world there is absolutely no incentive for a climate scientist to say there is no catastrophic climate change occurring. It’s a $5 trillion industry if you include government subsidies for alternative energy. There are so many vested interests in keeping the gravy train rolling that if a newly minted climate scientist came out and said “ I’ve found the real data and I can prove that climate change is not as bad as everyone is saying” he would never get another job in the industry again.

 

99% of climate scientists are either employed by governments, institutions  or industries where it is in their best interests to produce research that makes climate change appear as catastrophic as possible.  There is zero accountability as nobody has to prove they have stopped or mitigated climate change, it’s the perfect boogeyman for governments to scare people into submission and greater taxation without ever having to provide verifiable results.

 

With $5 trillion dollars at stake, no accountability and so many vested interests does anyone actually believe that the data hasn’t been manipulated or been subject to subjective bias.

Good advice.

1 hour ago, AJBangkok said:

In today’s world there is absolutely no incentive for a climate scientist to say there is no catastrophic climate change occurring. It’s a $5 trillion industry if you include government subsidies for alternative energy. There are so many vested interests in keeping the gravy train rolling that if a newly minted climate scientist came out and said “ I’ve found the real data and I can prove that climate change is not as bad as everyone is saying” he would never get another job in the industry again.

 

99% of climate scientists are either employed by governments, institutions  or industries where it is in their best interests to produce research that makes climate change appear as catastrophic as possible.  There is zero accountability as nobody has to prove they have stopped or mitigated climate change, it’s the perfect boogeyman for governments to scare people into submission and greater taxation without ever having to provide verifiable results.

 

With $5 trillion dollars at stake, no accountability and so many vested interests does anyone actually believe that the data hasn’t been manipulated or been subject to subjective bias.

Right, all these people who become climatologists are just in it for the money and perks and not because they find science fascinating and rewarding. And there's this worldwide conspiracy going on to foster these lies. Becuase scientists are constantly checking each others conclusions, for your assertion to be true, there would have to be some kind of worldwide conspiracy to make it work. I guess when the facts are against you, conspiracy theories will have to do.

Unfortunately, reality is making a mockery of your assertion. Or maybe you also think there's a conspiracy to heat up the atmosphere?

Conspiracy theories are the last refuge of the clueless.

And from where did you get that 5 trillion dollar figure. It's odd because the IMF concluded that fossil fuels get about that amount every year in subsidies. And then there is the conclusion that diseases caused by air pollution contribute about another 5 trillion to costs. 

That would make a total of 10 trillion dollars. About 12 percent of global GDP.

1 hour ago, gunderhill said:

And another  missed  point, its  about "being told"  first its  going to be record  cold then record  hot is headlined, neither are actually  records in earths long   history and CO2 is incredibly  low also at the moment.

And temperatures were a lot warmer when CO2 concentrations were higher. Except for the occasional bout of extreme volcanism or collisions with asteroids. So what's your point?

Two days of high temperatures, and the media try to parlay this into a global crisis. That shows how desperate the alarmists in the media have become.

 

And along with the high temperatures, we are graciously allowed to listen to that well-known climate expert, Prince Charles, who now informs us we have only 18 months to rescue the planet. Things are obviously getting better, since it's now 10 years since he told us we only had 7 years to keep control.

 

As he told foreign ministers from the Commonwealth this week:

 

"I am firmly of the view that the next 18 months will decide our ability to keep climate change to survivable levels and to restore nature to the equilibrium we need for our survival."

 

This is also the hysterical line taken by activist group Extinction Rebellion, and its publishing arm, the British Broadcasting Corporation. https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-48964736

 

I'm not sure whether this is more or less alarmist than Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's public assertion that "The world is gonna end in 12 years if we don’t address climate change."

 

That other noted climate expert Bob Geldof has suggested 2030 as the date of humanity's extinction.

 

The whole thing is taking on a distinctly comic-book flavor:  “Flash, Flash, I love you, but we only have fourteen hours to save the world!”

 

https://youtu.be/1Oq6vztcjgg

12 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

Two days of high temperatures, and the media try to parlay this into a global crisis. That shows how desperate the alarmists in the media have become.

 

And along with the high temperatures, we are graciously allowed to listen to that well-known climate expert, Prince Charles, who now informs us we have only 18 months to rescue the planet. Things are obviously getting better, since it's now 10 years since he told us we only had 7 years to keep control.

 

As he told foreign ministers from the Commonwealth this week:

 

"I am firmly of the view that the next 18 months will decide our ability to keep climate change to survivable levels and to restore nature to the equilibrium we need for our survival."

 

This is also the hysterical line taken by activist group Extinction Rebellion, and its publishing arm, the British Broadcasting Corporation. https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-48964736

 

I'm not sure whether this is more or less alarmist than Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's public assertion that "The world is gonna end in 12 years if we don’t address climate change."

 

That other noted climate expert Bob Geldof has suggested 2030 as the date of humanity's extinction.

 

The whole thing is taking on a distinctly comic-book flavor:  “Flash, Flash, I love you, but we only have fourteen hours to save the world!”

 

https://youtu.be/1Oq6vztcjgg

Right it's only non climatologists who think the situation is grave. The IPCC thinks everything is going to be just fine.

And did you note that latest massive piece of research that says this period of global warming, unlike the medieval or roman warm period is happening virtually everywhere at once? What are the odds that climatologists predict this forcing event happening because of rising CO2 and it actually comes to pass?

 

 

2 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Right it's only non-non climatologists who think the situation is grave

What is a non-non climatologist?

 

Someone who is a climatologist, or someone like an Extinction Rebellion activist who doesn't even know enough to be a non-climatologist?

"The speed of global warming has never been as fast as it is today, and is affecting the whole planet at the same time, for the first time in at least two millennia"

This was a time of relative stability in global temperature, apart from the temporary cooling effect of the odd volcano.  With the development of human agriculture, our prosperity and population grew. Following the industrial revolution, rapid warming commenced due to human activity.

 

" In statistical terms, rates of warming during all 51-year periods from the 1950s onwards exceed the 99th percentile of reconstructed pre-industrial 51 yr trends. If we look at timescales longer than 20 years, the probability that the largest warming trend occurred after 1850 greatly exceeds the values expected from chance alone. And, for trend lengths over 50 years, that probability swiftly approaches 100%"

The strength of the recent warming is extraordinary. It is yet more evidence of human-induced warming of the planet.

3 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

 

What is a non-non climatologist?

 

Someone who is a climatologist, or someone like an Extinction Rebellion activist who doesn't even know enough to be a non-climatologist?

Victory by typo? Is that all you've got? I'll correct that typo which will leave you with nothing.

2 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Victory by typo? Is that all you've got? I'll correct that typo which will leave you with nothing.

I'm not trying to achieve "victory". That kind of attitude is the preserve of the ideologically possessed.

 

Furthermore, the attempt to force everything into a Win-Lose binary is one of the key reasons why so little has been done in the political sphere to address the challenges posed by changes in the climate.

2 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

I'm not trying to achieve "victory". That kind of attitude is the preserve of the ideologically possessed.

 

Furthermore, the attempt to force everything into a Win-Lose binary is one of the key reasons why so little has been done in the political sphere to address the challenges posed by changes in the climate.

Really so little has been done? You don't think the explosive increase in renewables owes something to governments?

Some troll posts and the trolling replies have been removed. 

16 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

 

What is a non-non climatologist?

 

Someone who is a climatologist, or someone like an Extinction Rebellion activist who doesn't even know enough to be a non-climatologist?

 

6 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

I'm not trying to achieve "victory". That kind of attitude is the preserve of the ideologically possessed.

 

Furthermore, the attempt to force everything into a Win-Lose binary is one of the key reasons why so little has been done in the political sphere to address the challenges posed by changes in the climate.

Oh, please. You treat that obvious typo as though it's what I meant. So what exactly what  were you trying to accomplish in that post?

Quote

You don't think the explosive increase in renewables owes something to governments?

 

Government subsidies, certainly.

 

But the leader of the global climate movement, Greta Thunberg, has spent the last 7 months haranguing the UN, business leaders, the Pope and the UK political class about how little they have done, and how their failure is upsetting her.

 

She says: 

 

"If you still say that we are wasting valuable lesson time, then let me remind you our political leaders have wasted decades through denial and inaction”

 

“Since our leaders are behaving like children, we will have to take the responsibility they should have taken long ago.”

 

“You say you love your children above all else and yet you are stealing their future in front of their very eyes.”