Why it’s time to step away from Thailand

[White Christmas13]

38 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Do you really think that is an intelligent response?

no not intelligent but for somebody who talks crap does not deserve a better one

[Winky Wilson]

After reading all this hodgepodge you really need to think who started this mess with immigration and all the negative thoughts. All the aholes who overstay their visas and straining the hospitals with no money. Being in Thailand is not a right it is a privilege. Thailand sees America and the flood of undocumented invaders. ???? Hmm. Try overstaying your visa in China, you will end up in prison. China does not play around with irresponsible tourists. Many countries do not. Thai authorities are also fed up with cheap Charlie digital nomads bucking the system, many with little money turning into squatters with no where to go. It’s amazing how fast they cleaned house. Unless you understand the hierarchy of Theravada Buddhism, The Royal Family, Thai politics, you will not understand how Thai people think and how they react to dangers to their traditional values. They take offense to irresponsible and disrespectful people. If you are not of Thai blood you are a guest of the kingdom. People should view the kingdom as a temple. Foreigners are guest.

Edited July 31, 2019 by Winky Wilson

[totally thaied up]

Lol...  Yes,  if I told my wife I bought her to Australia I would get a thumping. When I wrote that post,  I had taken my nightly medication and was pretty zonked out. 

 

The AUD is just weak against the USD. Our Government wants a weak dollar; nothing to do with Thailand. Yes,  in many ways it is cheaper at home if you don't smoke or drink at the pub. Good wines are cheap. I just miss my beach the most but you cannot let the politics of Thailand bring you down as you are only making yourself feel bad. I read TV and don't get depressed. I know what I have signed up for and if it ever gets too tough, we just go home. As others have said, Thailand is set up for Thais, the Elites or the 1% of this world control most of what we see. Yes, we are just guests and I understand that. 

[CMNightRider]

5 hours ago, grifbel said:

What are you posing as?  Ill-informed perhaps!

I'm posting as an informed westerner residing in Thailand but thanks for asking.  To most posters this is obvious.  Any westerner living in condos or apartments where other westerners live, saw foreigners starting to move on to other countries or returning to their own country at the first of this year.  This is when Thai Immigration launched their campaign to encourage foreigners to leave Thailand, by tightening their rules and regulations to live full time in Thailand.

 

The foreigners who dug in their heels and chose to stay, found themselves having to deposit 800,000 baht into a Thai bank instead of having the flexability to keep this money invested in a western banks or brokage firms earning dividends as well as the growth of the stocks that pay the dividends.  I have noticed by some comments made by apologists, many don't understand the benefit of earning compound interest on their money, and believe 800,000 baht in a Thai bank is reasonable, lol.  

 

Then immigration in their infinate wisdom decided it was time to strictly enforce their idoitic TM forms for all expat movement.    This required a ridiculous 24 hour reporting period to report after returning to the Kingdom from another country.  Immigration has imposed a fine, if the reporting goes over the 24 hour alloted time limit.  Wow, that should be an eye opener and wake up call for most foreigners who call Thailand their home.  To Immigrations credit, they do not require a TM form to be submitted for any bowel movements at this time.  However, look for this requirement in the future.

 

Now immigration released what they refer to as a smart van.  Huh, what??  You have got to be joking.  Western law enforcement  had computers installed in their police vehicles for years.  These people act as if they just invented them.  The smart van driven by an immigration officer can roam the streets and back alleys of Thailands cities in search of people who look different than Thais.  The officer aboard the smart van can detain the foreigner on the street, while they run a computer check to ascertain if they have what they commonly refer to as a bad foreigner.  Immigrations idea of the difference between what they refer to as a bad or good foreigner differs widely.  You just can't make stuff like this up folks.  

 

 

[totally thaied up]

8 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

Any westerner living in condos or apartments where other westerners live, saw foreigners starting to move on to other countries or returning to their own country at the first of this year.

I was advised at the last Chiang Mai expats meeting by a friend who went,  figures of around 20% of people from that meeting were in the midst of leaving Chiang Mai this year due to two things. 

 

Funds in the bank needed

Pollution levels

 

There was a detailed Facebook post on this in Chiang Mai Expats. 

Edited July 31, 2019 by totally thaied up

[CMNightRider]

2 minutes ago, totally thaied up said:

I was advised at the last Chiang Mai expats meeting by a friend who went,  figures of around 20% of people were in the midst of leaving Chiang Mai this year due to two things. 

 

Funds in the bank needed

Pollution levels

The last time I checked, the air quality problem during the burning season has been here for decades.  As I previously mentioned, the loonie idea of depositing 800,000 baht into a Thai bank rather than having the flexibility to keep your money in western banks or brokerage firms was the last straw for many expats.

 

The TM form idea has increased the 20% of foreigners who are leaving. ???? 

[marcusarelus]

2 hours ago, White Christmas13 said:

no not intelligent but for somebody who talks crap does not deserve a better one

Another crap response is hardly going to teach him anything.  Why not try showing him the error of his ways.  You live in a Western country (not Thailand) isn't that the way they do it there?

[totally thaied up]

34 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Another crap response is hardly going to teach him anything.  Why not try showing him the error of his ways.  You live in a Western country (not Thailand) isn't that the way they do it there?

I have seen many of my friends crack after 10 years staying here.

 

Some have gone home,  others are self destructing. As a species, we are very good at self destructive behavior; the amount of marriages and businesses I have seen crack because of daily pressure that leads to self destruction seems to be inbuilt to us. I have met people cool as a cucumber in life and once I started them trading, they couldn't handle the pressure. Lose $200, it was like the world was caving in on them. Same as moving to another country. I have friends that have never traveled more than 500 kilometers away from their hometown as they cannot handle it. Whole life revolves around the home town. Most my friends think I am nuts living in Thailand, so far away from long time friends and my family.

 

Connda for his own reasons has moved on from Thai Visa and maybe Thailand. We all have certain pressure points we can handle. I am sure you have seen this in your long life. 

Edited July 31, 2019 by totally thaied up

[drbeach]

3 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

I don't see that.  Thai roads, sidewalks, education, voting, general knowledge, soi dogs, military, corruption, farming, and many other things especially those we can't talk about are in bad shape.  However having said that the old wives tales and bar room economics that are accepted as fact here are ludicrous.  Biggest problems are comparing documented statistics with anecdotal evidence or barroom bs.  The Thai bank does not control the pound.  Sorry but it does not.  Racial stereotypes are not correct.  Thailand is not a 3rd world farming economy.   

 

I feel a commitment to truth.  When you post something back it up and stop calling people names and flaming as a response to valid information. 

 

Loose the flaming stuff.  Stop trying to hijack every post with anti Thai talking points.  Concentrate on the message and not attack the poster. 

Thai roads are in fantastic shape compared to the horrendous donkey tracks that they call "roads" in Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia and even to a large extent, Vietnam. So on that measure, Thailand is doing exceptionally well. Also, 3 new intercity expressway projects are currently under construction with more being planned.

 

Sidewalks could be better, but they aren't any worse than in neighboring countries.

 

The rest is mostly true but applies just as much in the rest of the region as here.

[Genmai]

3 hours ago, Winky Wilson said:

After reading all this hodgepodge you really need to think who started this mess with immigration and all the negative thoughts. All the aholes who overstay their visas and straining the hospitals with no money. Being in Thailand is not a right it is a privilege. Thailand sees America and the flood of undocumented invaders. ???? Hmm. Try overstaying your visa in China, you will end up in prison. China does not play around with irresponsible tourists. Many countries do not. Thai authorities are also fed up with cheap Charlie digital nomads bucking the system, many with little money turning into squatters with no where to go. It’s amazing how fast they cleaned house. Unless you understand the hierarchy of Theravada Buddhism, The Royal Family, Thai politics, you will not understand how Thai people think and how they react to dangers to their traditional values. They take offense to irresponsible and disrespectful people. If you are not of Thai blood you are a guest of the kingdom. People should view the kingdom as a temple. Foreigners are guest.

 

Stockholm syndrome much?

 

Last week I went to extend my business visa. This is the third year we are doing it. Aside from me there are 7 staff and an accountant employed full-time at our biz. We've always filed everything on time and never did any shady shit. Each time it is the same IO who processes our application. You would think that over time they would start to trust us a little more and maybe ease up on their BS. Nope. Each year the stack of paper gets thicker and thicker. Each time more questions. This time they wanted all the BS photos as previous years then called us back because its not enough. Then TM30 problems. Then suddenly they have a problem with our staff turnover rate. Apparently everyone needs to not move their ass for 3 months prior to my extension. Kind of difficult when responsible staff who don't leave at the drop of a hat are next to impossible to find! In the meantime we keep pouring money in and haven't yet taken 1 baht out of the operations.

 

Am I an "ahole who overstay my visa"? Do I "strain the hospital"? Am I an "undocumented invader"? Or a "cheap Charlie digital nomad bucking the system"? Please spare us your Theravada Buddhism (it shouldn't even be named after the Buddha since it has nothing in common with what his teachings actually say or how locals here act, especially in regards to visitors!), Royals, politics, traditional values, blah blah. I would imagine that like myself most foreigners here only want one thing from the Thais - to be fairly treated with a modicum of human dignity. That's all. Is that asking too much?

 

As for comparisons to China - I dare you to go on LiveLeak and watch some Chinese videos of dogs being boiled alive and toddlers lying dead on the road for hours. Then ask yourself if that's really the country you want to compare Thailand to. Things can ALWAYS be worse, no matter what situation you're in. Not a valid argument.

 

3 hours ago, Winky Wilson said:

If you are not of Thai blood you are a guest of the kingdom. People should view the kingdom as a temple. Foreigners are guest

 

Please graap the Holy Pad Thai seller for graciously affording you the courtesy of standing in their presence! Ridiculous. You would never expect Thai people living or visiting in the West to subjugate themselves like that!

 

All that I and most of us want is to go about my day and my business without being scammed, lied to, beaten, driven off the road, poisoned with pesticide residue, choked by smog/burning garbage, chased by the crazy dogs of irresponsible owners or treated like a criminal at every turn. Even if you stay here 50 years, learn the language and customs, marry and start a family - in a dispute with a Thai bottomfeeder nobody Thais will still take the side of their contryman. How do you like being a guest in this "temple"?

[drbeach]

1 hour ago, totally thaied up said:

Lol...  Yes,  if I told my wife I bought her to Australia I would get a thumping. When I wrote that post,  I had taken my nightly medication and was pretty zonked out.  

 

The AUD is just weak against the USD. Our Government wants a weak dollar; nothing to do with Thailand. Yes,  in many ways it is cheaper at home if you don't smoke or drink at the pub. Good wines are cheap. I just miss my beach the most but you cannot let the politics of Thailand bring you down as you are only making yourself feel bad. I read TV and don't get depressed. I know what I have signed up for and if it ever gets too tough, we just go home. As others have said, Thailand is set up for Thais, the Elites or the 1% of this world control most of what we see. Yes, we are just guests and I understand that.  

Not much different in most other countries in the region. Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Myanmar, India, China. All definitely places that are set-up for locals and not so much for foreigners, though to it's credit Thailand is still fairly friendly towards foreigners just that it offers a lot more privileges to locals. The 1% elite own most of the wealth so your average working class Thai is not much better off than your average foreigner except that they have, in theory, the right to own land and can visit national parks for the local rate. And of course can stay without a visa and apply for any job without needing a work permit. But without the right skills, connections and experience, they really don't have much of a chance of making it here either.

 

Still, for foreigners Myanmar is far worse - passport checks in many parts of the country, foreign tourists not allowed to stay at hotels (what's that about?) About 20% of the country completely off-limits to all foreigners. All sorts of loans (other than credit cards) banned for foreigners irrespective of visa type or salary by central bank decree.

[totally thaied up]

3 hours ago, Winky Wilson said:

Being in Thailand is not a right it is a privilege

Okay, you got to understand this privilege is most likely coming from the top 1% of those that hold power in Thailand and people like myself that have married, brought in millions of baht, started to make a life here, can be thrown to the wolves at anytime? 

 

In my country my wife gets a say. She can get PR and then Citizenship easy. Here, I do not get a fair shake of the stick because in many ways, people are just too scared to say things because those that are privileged, hold your right in staying here. I have welded myself to my wife in this country but I know at a moments notice, requirements can be changed and for me, a Plan B has to be always on a back burner if things were to change. Do I think they will change? No, most likely not but when you have NO stable roots here to embed your family for the coming generations as you are not counted as one here, you got to wonder why you do it. I would like to build something for my family that would stand the tests of time, I have the money to be able to do this but when I do not have the stability, tell me why should I? Do I want a big house here to be my Gravestone? Could I build up a decent family business like I could at home in Australia and see if flourish and know it is all mine? Yes some people do it but then I have seen a lot of my friends after 10 years here go to the wayside and go back home as it just was too hard in the end.

[drbeach]

10 minutes ago, totally thaied up said:

Okay, you got to understand this privilege is most likely coming from the top 1% of those that hold power in Thailand and people like myself that have married, brought in millions of baht, started to make a life here, can be thrown to the wolves at anytime? 

 

In my country my wife gets a say. She can get PR and then Citizenship easy. Here, I do not get a fair shake of the stick because in many ways, people are just too scared to say things because those that are privileged, hold your right in staying here. I have welded myself to my wife in this country but I know at a moments notice, requirements can be changed and for me, a Plan B has to be always on a back burner if things were to change. Do I think they will change? No, most likely not but when you have NO stable roots here to embed your family for the coming generations as you are not counted as one here, you got to wonder why you do it. I would like to build something for my family that would stand the tests of time, I have the money to be able to do this but when I do not have the stability, tell me why should I? Do I want a big house here to be my Gravestone? Could I build up a decent family business like I could at home in Australia and see if flourish and know it is all mine? Yes some people do it but then I have seen a lot of my friends after 10 years here go to the wayside and go back home as it just was too hard in the end. 

Good post but I'd say it depends. Thai citizenship is a possibility for foreigners (way better than PR and perhaps easier to qualify for) provided you meet and exceed the requirements and are very committed. I could be wrong but I was under the impression female foreigners who marry Thais are afforded immediate Thai citizenship? More hoops to jump through for men, but still if white women can get Thai citizenship just by marrying a local then that's way easier than what Thais have to do to get citizenship of a western country.

 

Build a business in Australia? Very difficult these days. Too many regulations and the business tax rate is too high. Almost easier to do so in Thailand, provided you meet all the silly requirements like minimum number of Thai workers.

[BritManToo]

18 minutes ago, totally thaied up said:

In my country my wife gets a say. She can get PR and then Citizenship easy.

And if you were a foreign woman with a Thai husband in Thailand it would be the same.

Thailand doesn't want foreign men and our home countries would have been so much better if they didn't want foreign men either.

Edited July 31, 2019 by BritManToo

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

The last time I checked, the air quality problem during the burning season has been here for decades.

In the previous decade it lasted 2-4 weeks, this year it lasted 4 months.

If it had lasted 4 months in my first year here, I would have been here a second year.

Edited July 31, 2019 by BritManToo

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

Immigrations idea of the difference between what they refer to as a bad or good foreigner differs widely.

Between 100bht and 500bht, depending on how much the foreigner has in his pocket at the time.

Edited July 31, 2019 by BritManToo

[Joe Mcseismic]

10 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

And if you were a foreign woman with a Thai husband in Thailand it would be the same.

Thailand doesn't want foreign men and our home countries would have been so much better if they didn't want foreign men either.

Same policy is in effect in Malaysia and Singapore.

[totally thaied up]

10 minutes ago, drbeach said:

More hoops to jump through for men, but still if white women can get Thai citizenship just by marrying a local then that's way easier than what Thais have to do to get citizenship of a western country.

I am filling out the forms for a 309 Visa now in Australia. The requirements are pretty straight forward and if you have been married long enough (and did a few trips back to OZ), it is not that hard. Just fill in the paperwork, translate what they want, do health checks, get the STAT DECS from friends and family and off you go after paying the fee. Might have bit of a wait but you can apply for a bridging visa if you wish. 

 

In all honesty, not that hard.

[kellersphuket]

well said buddy. thailand sucks, there is no other way to describe it.

 

It sucks to be a white man in this country.

 

Thats why I'm leaving too!

 

Good luck bro!

[ThaiPauly]

On 7/30/2019 at 9:18 AM, worgeordie said:

There goes another long time poster.

regards worgeordie

Don't fret Geordie.

 

There will be another one along again soon to replace him

[billd766]

On 7/30/2019 at 8:37 AM, Boy Wonder said:

I'm happy for you. I hope you find solace wherever you go next. Don't let this situation turn you into a jaded old man, there is a lot to look forward to in life, inside or outside of Thailand.

 

Just to give you another perspective: I don't have any of the problems you discussed. I am not married, I have not received any violence towards me and I don't live in Chiang Mai. So it seems to me that your problems are just that -- yours. It doesn't really reflect the country as a whole, in my opinion.

 

But then again what do I know, I've only been in Thailand for a year.

I have been living full time in Thailand for 10 years and on and off since 1993.

 

I live in rural Khampeang Phet for the last 15 years.

 

I have never experienced violence against me or my family. On the contrary I have experienced nothing but kindness and friendship in that time from the Thai people.

 

[amykat]

On 7/30/2019 at 2:38 AM, Joe Mcseismic said:

Does your mummy know that you're on the computer?

Does your psychiatric nurse know you are on yours???

[GinBoy2]

On 7/30/2019 at 7:39 AM, MalandLee said:

Me too "Bloke" and my Thai wife feels the same. Great Kiwis (Maori) live next door,  Chinese mate up the street, Lovely Burmese couple across the road, my Indian mate (great sparky). Burmese guy married my daughter 20+ years ago "beautiful" Eurasian grandkids... Love OZ.

 

Only go to Thailand now to visit extended family... 6 weeks MAX at a time. I will never live there again.

Although I have no numbers I suspect that a good deal of the long stayers who do tire of the place, for various reasons, often keep a foot in two worlds.

 

There are of course those that are just completely are sick and tired of the place, and once they get on the plane never want to hear the word Thailand uttered again.

 

But for many, I include myself, do tire of it, the shine wears off, living there full time for many years.

But for many of us, with Thai families, keep a home in Thailand and do visit every year. We do the snowbird thing and go to our home in Khon Kaen for a couple of months every year. 

 

No visa hassles, I'm a short term tourist, my wife has a US Greencard, so no problems there, and you can, for those couple of months feel like you did all those years ago when you first visited the place.

 

I think thats a fairly common scenario.

 

So I understand the OP completely, but we all make decisions at the time. Very few of us have views on a place that don't evolve over the years.

 

And btw @connda you have made some thoughtful posts over the years, and unlike many, can string a coherent sentence together!

 

Good luck in the next chapter of your life

Edited July 31, 2019 by GinBoy2

[amykat]

11 hours ago, drbeach said:

 I could be wrong but I was under the impression female foreigners who marry Thais are afforded immediate Thai citizenship.

You are wrong!!

[Joe Mcseismic]

3 hours ago, amykat said:

Does your psychiatric nurse know you are on yours???

That's your comeback?

Pity you can't buy wit because you really need some.

[Joe Mcseismic]

PS. Yes my psychiatric nurse knows I'm on Thaivisa. In fact, she was the one that suggested it.

Very therapeutic seeing all the posters that are nuttier than me.

[geronimo]

On 7/30/2019 at 9:02 AM, villagefarang said:

I don't care what you say, I have a great life here and I am staying.????

I'll second that one, and I'm betting there are many of us that still love Thailand.

[billd766]

4 hours ago, geronimo said:

I'll second that one, and I'm betting there are many of us that still love Thailand.

Me too. I still love Thailand and the Thai people.

[Sandy Freckle]

On 7/30/2019 at 7:43 PM, madmen said:

Taking an Asian wife or GF back to OZ I could never do. The racism is insane and wouldnt be fair on the girl, The guys consider Asian woman as the last thing you pick up in a nightclub at 3am if you did not find better and refer to them all as slopes. The Woman are worse and don't want them in the social circle because they are all prostitutes and will steal their husbands

 

That's the harsh reality 

I guess it depends on where you choose to live and which so called 'friends' you choose to associate with. In many parts of Australia many people have evolved.., and even attained some level of enlightenment and empathy. 

[totally thaied up]

3 minutes ago, Sandy Freckle said:

I guess it depends on where you choose to live and which so called 'friends' you choose to associate with. In many parts of Australia many people have evolved.., and even attained some level of enlightenment and empathy. 

My wife and I would go Rock and Roll dancing. The local club and all the women loved my wife. We danced on the streets in a major Rock and Roll weekend and at least a 1/8 of the people dancing in the thousands that were there were Asian. Australia has moved a long way forward since the 1960-1970 period. Sure we have racist bogans as well and yes, I know that exists but it depends on the crowd and age group you are around. Plenty of good people around.