Are big bikes worth it?

[DualSportBiker]

13 minutes ago, WeekendRaider said:

to me this is another situation where in Thailand an issue is viewed too simplistic.

while I don't see why anything bigger than a Yamaha 300 XMAX is ever needed, except for the police... I also at the same time believe 125 CC scooters, they way they are used in Thailand, are too small.   that's from the view that most of the time all of these bikes should never have more than one rider, normally.  or only used very locally only.

"I don't see why..." That's nice - thanks for sharing.

 

How do I get to Chiang Mai for lunch with my wife, clothes and a BBQ on a 300 cc scooter? How do I ride from Chiang Mai to Piang Luang off-road in the rainy season on a 300 scooter? You think it is OK for the limits of your imagination and desires to constrict what others do?

 

I don't oppose stricter tests, graduated licenses, heavy fines and confiscating bikes as methods to control quality of road users. I do oppose nanny state ideas limited by the fears and lack of imagination of arm-chair muppets.

[Galactus]

7 hours ago, MaxYakov said:

Big bikes should be restricted to racetracks. The ordinary motor vehicle infrastructure was not designed with them in mind. You don't see formula 1 cars on the roads very often. Big bikes are just splendid for dramatic, horrific demonstrations of suicide on ordinary roads.

oh yeah? why is that?

so you can drive your f in cage nicely around?

actually cars should be banned along with trucks to open space for motorbikes and bicycles and pedestrians.

a car is a waste of resources. say it fuel, maintenance and manufacturing resources.

a classic selfish view from a non rider who has no idea. 

what i understand, you dont have balls to ride a big bike hence such  b s is coming form you. guys like you usually says this' bikes are like suicide, they are dangerous etc b s'

big bikes are in this world for more than a century. they served people who cannot afford cars, they served in army, they won wars.

they gave wings for people.

[rabas]

8 minutes ago, Galactus said:

big bikes are in this world for more than a century. they served people who cannot afford cars, they served in army, they won wars.

they gave wings for people.

people who cannot afford cars...

 

Given a million dollars I would go buy a motorcycle.  Given 2 million dollars, I would go buy two.

 

Edited August 2, 2019 by rabas

[Isaanbiker]

32 minutes ago, samuttodd said:

Because of the sorry conditions of the pavement,  it'd be crazy to go faster unless you knew the roadway.    There are places near here that have 3 lanes of traffic on the hwy,  and then for 100 feet there will be 8 inch gashes that run through various patches of the approaching pavement.  

 

If you are really cookin through there, the cars in front of you will block from view the approaching road situation.

 

If you go balls out and blow through sections of roadway that are unfamiliar to you it is going to be a mighty short trip.

 

I can see going faster if the roads had sparse traffic and you knew where the rough spots were.

My biggest concern are always the U-turns. Whenever I ride over 140 km/h, i always slow down when I see a U turn. That has saved my life a couple of times. 

 

If I wouldn't do that, I'd be dead by now.

 

  

[geronimo]

Just now, Isaanbiker said:

My biggest concern are always the U-turns. Whenever I ride over 140 km/h, i always slow down when I see a U turn. That has saved my life a couple of times. 

 

If I wouldn't do that, I'd be dead by now.

 

  

yeah, they are accidents waiting to happen ....

[DoktorC]

33 minutes ago, Isaanbiker said:

People jump off airplanes with a parachute, some do free climbing without a rope. Etc.

 

And some people like me love the feeling of acceleration when you're already doing 150 km/h. 

 

 Would you make the same statement about cars? I love 12 cylinder BMW and Benz, but why do people need such "big cars"? 

 

    

Apples and oranges... if you jump out of a plane and your parachute fails to open - that's your problem.  Not likely to affect anyone else.   If you go free climbing and slip - again your problem.  Not likely you will hit someone else on your way down.

 

However, if you are on the highway and do your macho acceleration (at 150km/h you are exceeding allowable speed and not a safe driver) and something goes south there's a good possibility that someone else (besides your sorry self) will be involved in your mistake.  You want to experience that acceleration thrill, go to a drag strip or race track.

 

And yes, the same can be seen for big cars.

 

Stay off the public streets, they are not intended for your thrill seeking.

 

 

[ianwheldale]

Take full responsibility for yourself and control what is happening around you. Simples! Not rocket science. 

[DualSportBiker]

I spent time talking to a bunch of villagers who were constructing an illegal u-turn on the highway north of Suphanburi town. I'd been riding on back roads and rejoined the highway where they were working. The next official and sign-posted u-turn was under 2 clicks away.

 

I asked why. Their response was simply 'cost and time'. "Who will use it?" I asked, "Everyone" they responded. Then I told them to make sure you take responsibility for everyone who dies here. I tried to explain that drivers approaching this spot will not be looking for people crossing the road - there are barriers and no sign that says u-turn. Drivers will take longer to react and accidents will happen. 'Cost and time' was the response. I asked them to calculate the cost they would save and they obviously could not. So I did the maths for them using their base numbers; 2,000 meters to the real u-turn and whatever km/l they told me for their small bikes. I asked them how many trips saving 2 Baht were worth the life of their kids, grandkids or neighbours kids? They ran straight to fantasy - there will be no accidents, we are careful etc... The truth is they just don't ever consider the impact of their actions beyond their immediate needs - however pathetically petty those needs compute out to be.

 

So, there are u-turns everywhere, and not all have signs.

 

3 minutes ago, Isaanbiker said:

My biggest concern are always the U-turns. Whenever I ride over 140 km/h, i always slow down when I see a U turn. That has saved my life a couple of times. 

 

If I wouldn't do that, I'd be dead by now.

 

  

[Galactus]

30 minutes ago, rabas said:

people who cannot afford cars...

 

Given a million dollars I would go buy a motorcycle.  Given 2 million dollars, I would go buy two.

 

same here. almost 30 years of riding. bought a car once in my life. and sold it fast in three months.

i really cannot understand this discrimination from jealous non riders.

big bikes are not dangerous. actually less dangerous that small bikes with lesser components, smaller tires etc

also you have power to get away from dangerous situations with a big bike.

 

ask hundred non riders with their cages, and 80 of them will say like ban the bikes unfortunately.

discrimination mixed with jealousy and a state of having no balls.

[Too young to be old]

7 hours ago, MaxYakov said:

If one wants to do "touring" in Thailand and better avoid an early death one should rent a car or, better yet, take the bus. These spectacular crashes we've been seeing are not done with "touring" bikes but with racing bikes that don't strike me as being the best tour bikes such as the Honda Gold Wing, for example.

 

 

Taking the bus would be my last option.

[Galactus]

more people die sliding and falling in the bathrooms or from their balconies etc then motorbike related accidents in this world.

lets ban the bathrooms and balconies too!

users of bathrooms should have an age requirement of 21 to use it alone?

no more balconies too. ban the balconies.

[Redline]

10 hours ago, webfact said:

“From the data we collected, it would be correct to say that big bike riders in Thailand lack the basics, causing them to have low riding skills and a higher risk of accidents. Another factor is that most riders have no understanding of situations that could cause an accident. We often see riders who do not know or are unaware of dangers that could take place. They are unable to make a quick decision or evade obstacles when in an emergency situation.”

Lacking common sense, or thinking in general 

[NoshowJones]

6 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Nothing to do with the bikes, Thailand needs to train/educate the riders and enforce the law.

 

I've had several big bikes here, GSXR600, 899 Panigale, MT09 and the only crash I had was on a 110 cc Yamaha Nouvo when I hit some idiot reversing down Bang Na Trat road because he hadn't stopped in time for the grilled chicken stall.

 

The focus on big bikes lately is just an easy story for the media because a few minor celebrities have crashed. A nice deflection from the real issues.

"Thailand needs to train/educate the riders and enforce the law". You can not educate stupidity, or sad lack of common sense.

[NoshowJones]

6 hours ago, jaiyen said:

Are big cars worth it ??  There are thousands of very fast, expensive cars on the roads. Porsche, Ferrari, Maserati, BMW, Mercedes, Lamborghini etc.  Never hear any complaints about them and their drivers !  Except when they kill someone and get away with it !!

Anyone know where I can get saddlebags like the ones in the photo?

[UKresonant]

4 hours ago, Rhys said:

The under 300cc class seems to have the lowest rates of problems.  Explanation anyone?

A few (guess) items,

Physical size of the bike and weight is easier to control with the less than perfection condition of the road surface (but 150/250/300 class still more stable Vs the Scoopy-i, at moderately higher speeds).

The larger road race bikes are more critical with the condition of the road Vs the power being transmitted through the rear wheel. (appears to be a lot more dusty sand type debris or other things often on the road surface in Thailand which could cause the wide road Tyre to suddenly loose grip, or get the ABS working harder).

On a 250 you are probably able to use a lot of its overall performance, open up on a 650 and you are probably over the speed limit, or placing yourself in danger before you can react effectively, in a very short time period, if not experienced and/or trained.

 

Had three motorcycle accidents in the UK, two due to road surface condition (a. diesel spill/rubber dust and very light rain combination b. ice).  The other was a car pulling out of a side road, no evasive action due to other traffic and wet road surface, slammed on the anchor and just crumpled her front wing, and managed to stay on the bike (all low speed incidents). 

 

The car used as the son's school run transport was just impaled at the weekend, by a IZUZU, exiting a soi side lane prematurely, on the rear wheel arch. If they can't concentrated and see a Car right beside them, no chance of seeing a Motorcycle! I was thinking of a Kawa/Yam 250 or 300 in Thailand previously, but as with everything else, confidence is not high.

 

 

[NoshowJones]

5 hours ago, klauskunkel said:

 

and 2 days ago:

 

In just 2 days Bangkok went from lowest to highest. 

I have to say I feel more safer riding a motorbike in Bangkok than in any of the other Thai cities.

[finnishmen]

only big ower 400cc can say bike, all other under 250cc have moped/scooters only, men not drive scooter. men drive BIKE only. safety and better than little toy moped.

[xtrnuno41]

6 hours ago, jaiyen said:

A stupid comment from a dummy who knows NOTHING about bikes ! There is no bike anywhere near as fast as a Formula 1 car !  Would you like to tell us what you drive and where you get your experience of bikes from ??

DId you ever try a Hayabusha or the sister Bking? 1300 cc and 180 HP. You can even enhance them with a turbo.

Or if you have real big bike, like a Big Hoss, a motor with a V8 block from a Corvette.?

 

With my Bking, I know what i have between my legs, something  big and powerful ????.

You have to be aware what you are doing and ANTICIPATING is the most important way to drive.

MAny people still dont know how fast a motorbike is encountering them, they are just asleep.

As motor driver, you have to, say it again, ANTICIPATE way much more then anybody else.

However there are motorist and think they can do all and some can.

Be aware of your own limitations and dont cross that line.

See in youtube the many who crossed it and had accident.

I saw them in Thailand, road was worked on (of course no indications of it), gravel, holes and bumps, they passed me 

and didnt throttle back when road changed. OK they were lucky. They were, never the less, in motorsuite ! 

 

[NoshowJones]

5 hours ago, geronimo said:

I agree, yet the focus of this thread is big bikes, hence no mention of the smaller machines.

 "nobody has any road skills or strategy".  Driving and riding require common sense more than training or road skills, and the common sense part is not compatible with the majority of Thais.

[NoshowJones]

5 hours ago, Mukdahanman said:

Out of interest, which 350 did you choose and why?

I’m about to do exactly what you’ve done and I’d appreciate your advice, as there are plenty to choose from around that size.

Honda Forza 300. comfortable to ride over long distances, reliable and economical.

[LarryLEB]

ACCIDENTS DIVIDED BY DEATHS:

 

                   >150cc          >=150cc        >=250cc        >=400cc

2017     1 death per 41         per 27           per 19    per 13 accidents                   

2018     1 death per 43         per 32           per 21    per 13 accidents

 

2019     1 death per 38         per 33           per 19    per 16 accidents

 

Above, I have divided number of accidents by number of deaths.  Clearly, as bike size increases, the likelihood of death in an accident INCREASES.   (For what it's worth...)                               

                                      

 

Edited August 2, 2019 by LarryLEB
accuracy

[Odisan]

Wouldn't want my old CBR900RR on the roads around 'ere. One pothole and it'd be endex.

[GWS]

As a Superbike owner in Thailand the biggest issue are car drivers. Idiots doing U turns in front of you, driving up the wrong side of the road tailgating and the odd soi dog.

Restricting a 1000cc Superbike to over 21 year olds is probably a good thing but nobody will enforce it.

[luk AJ]

Out of interest, which 350 did you choose and why?
I’m about to do exactly what you’ve done and I’d appreciate your advice, as there are plenty to choose from around that size.

I choose the BMW C400X


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[DJ54]

10 hours ago, MaxYakov said:

Big bikes should be restricted to racetracks

Really? Guess would need to know what the definition of big bikes.

 

Putting anyone on a big bike without prior proper training is an accident looking to happen. 

 

Someone with fast experience on a 125cc switching to 1000 cc

needs training so they know what to expect.

 

In the NE countryside I see underage children riding motorcycles all time. A motorcycle should not be a babysitter.... why parents allow

it is beyond me. 

 

I don’t see Big Bikes being a problem. No proper training is...

 

 

 

[mogandave]

ACCIDENTS DIVIDED BY DEATHS: 

                   >150cc          >=150cc        >=250cc        >=400cc

2017     1 death per 41         per 27           per 19    per 13 accidents                   

2018     1 death per 43         per 32           per 21    per 13 accidents

 

2019     1 death per 38         per 33           per 19    per 16 accidents

 

Above, I have divided number of accidents by number of deaths.  Clearly, as bike size increases, the likelihood of death in an accident INCREASES.   (For what it's worth...)                               

                                      

 

 

 

The first column should be less than, yes?

 

Nice comparison

 

[canuckamuck]

4 hours ago, Galactus said:

more people die sliding and falling in the bathrooms or from their balconies etc then motorbike related accidents in this world.

That's probably not true for Thailand.

[mogandave]

That's probably not true for Thailand.

It’s probably not not true anywhere.

[mindfulness]

plus the added spice of idiots driving vehicles of the oncoming traffic and not giving a shit about bikes whatever size when they are overtaking. 

[KhaoYai]

9 hours ago, morocco said:

And Thailand is not the only country this happens. It happens all over the world. It should be mandatory that a person should have experience riding a 400cc - 650cc bike before they get on an insanely fast superbike.

Very true, but the size of the engine should not be the determining factor. Some 600's are almost as fast as the 1000's these days. The power output should be used as it is in other countries.

 

If Thailand ever get's around to making training compulsory it would be a good idea to introduce rules similar to the UK's 'Progressive Access' route. All riders must take and pass Compulsory Basic Training no matter what power bike they intend riding. They must then pass a full test within 2 years or start again. They under Progressive Access are then limited to a lower power machine for 2 years at which point they must pass a further test to get a licence for a bigger bike. There are also age restrictions depending on what size bike you wish to ride.

 

However, I would never recommend any other country introduces the ridiculous Direct Access route that is also available in the UK.  Using that route, a 24 year old can take a series of tests and undergo training in just a few days to get a full motorbike licence!  Put simply, if you so wish, at 24, never having ridden a bike before you can complete the requirements of the Direct Access route and be out on a 1000cc Superbike in just a few days.

 

Tests and training are one thing but there will never be any substitute for experience.

Edited August 2, 2019 by KhaoYai