Another Brexit thread, have a look anyway.

[CG1 Blue]

23 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

QUOTE: In reality the EU will come up with a solution to the border after no deal.

 

Again, you put a lot of trust in the EU.

Not to mention the fact that the civil war (the troubles as you would call it) was a British problem, and had nothing to do with the EU.

 

This is like banging my head against a brick wall. I'll try once more.

 

- EU refuse to alter the backstop; why? Because they say the backstop will protect the invisible NI border.

- The WA won't get through parliament with the current backstop arrangement.

- So the UK will leave with no deal which will immediately result in a problem with the NI border. 

 

Don't you see the contradiction there? Surely a negotiated alteration to the backstop would be better than a guaranteed immediate 'problem' on 1st November? 

 

 

 

 

[CG1 Blue]

7 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

Simple: just as every outer border for the EU: custom check, import duty, no free traffic. Same at Gibraltar, and the Channel islands.

So by refusing to alter the backstop the EU 'succeed' in implementing a hard border? How is that in the best interests of the Irish? 

[oldhippy]

2 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

This is like banging my head against a brick wall. I'll try once more.

 

- EU refuse to alter the backstop; why? Because they say the backstop will protect the invisible NI border.

- The WA won't get through parliament with the current backstop arrangement.

- So the UK will leave with no deal which will immediately result in a problem with the NI border. 

 

Don't you see the contradiction there? Surely a negotiated alteration to the backstop would be better than a guaranteed immediate 'problem' on 1st November? 

 

 

 

 

What you want  - to use brexiteer speak - is a surrender treaty to be signed by the EU.

Unless you brexiteers have a suggestion as to how to solve the border problem?

[CG1 Blue]

11 minutes ago, Victornoir said:

You are absolutely right, Brexite no deal offers no solution for the Irish border.
But the Irish border causes a no deal Brexit.
Do you accept the principle that this was exactly the goal of the EU from the beginning?

Not sure what you mean.  That it was the goal of the EU to use the border issue to prevent the UK leaving the EU? If that's what you mean, then yes I accept it. 

[puipuitom]

9 hours ago, david555 said:

Besides.... was U.K.'s Brexit not about "taking back control of our borders"....?  And a border in the Irish sea was absolutely not possible as it would divide the unity of U.K. ? so....a borderless U.K on that place ..?

Speaking of cornering yourself in...???? 

Just relocate the migrant camps from the Greek Islands or with their former imperial citizens and soldiers during WW1 + 2 from the Gambia, Ghana and Nigeria to … 1/2 km off the S -N Irish border. Let's see then how quick a heavily fortified borderline is build up.

( not to speak about "nose powder" exporters from Colombia or "smokies" from Morocco etc to give carnet possibilities to the same .. 1/2 km ex Ulster Border... ) 

[ivor bigun]

Do not worry: the levied import duty on British goods for the EU will close that gap in less as a year.

Except we import more from them than we export,so the extra import duties will not only cover that but give us a profit ,win win,

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[CG1 Blue]

3 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

What you want  - to use brexiteer speak - is a surrender treaty to be signed by the EU.

Unless you brexiteers have a suggestion as to how to solve the border problem?

A time limited backstop was one suggestion that the EU dismissed out of hand. Let's say 2 years.  That gives all interested parties (UK, EU, Ireland) 2 whole years to find a solution involving additional checks away from the border, technology, trusted trader schemes etc. 

 

If all 3 parties were truly dedicated to resolving the issue they could do it in 2 years. 

 

The reason a solution has not been found in the past 3 years is because you need all sides pulling in the same direction. Currently the EU and Ireland are not working with the UK to solve it. 

[oldhippy]

4 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

Except we import more from them than we export,so the extra import duties will not only cover that but give us a profit ,win win,

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Please clarify: who is "we", who is 'them".

[puipuitom]

9 hours ago, vogie said:

Here is Michel Barnier saying that the NI issue is an invention in order to create great leverage for the EU in the next stage of trade negotiations.

How short is a Brexiteer's memory:

The 'backstop' was a British proposal, not one tabled by Ireland or the ...

https://www.irishtimes.com/.../the-backstop-was-a-british-proposal...

18 jan. 2019 - The 'backstop' was a British proposal, not one tabled by Ireland or the EU ... Brexit will have serious repercussions for our exports to the UK, .... The UK opted for and specifically requested a backstop that applies to the entirety of the UK. This idea that Tony Blair or some other shadowy figure schemed up ...

[oldhippy]

2 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

A time limited backstop was one suggestion that the EU dismissed out of hand. Let's say 2 years.  That gives all interested parties (UK, EU, Ireland) 2 whole years to find a solution involving additional checks away from the border, technology, trusted trader schemes etc. 

 

If all 3 parties were truly dedicated to resolving the issue they could do it in 2 years. 

 

The reason a solution has not been found in the past 3 years is because you need all sides pulling in the same direction. Currently the EU and Ireland are not working with the UK to solve it. 

If you could not come up with suggestions for 3 years, you will not come up with suggestions in 2 years more.

[puipuitom]

8 hours ago, mrmicbkktxl said:

What is actually the gain for the UK with Brexit?What is the plan after Brexit?

I don't see any improvement for the UK if they leave the EU.Many British complain

about to many foreigner in UK.Will that change after Brexit?I don't think so.

UK  will kick out all Pakistani,Indians etc?They will kick out Polish people and people from

other EU countries?I don't think so.

Back to Historic Times, when Brittain ruled the waves... Long live Kitchiner and Gordon...

Only.. better have solid soil under your feet, and espcially under your factories...

[CG1 Blue]

39 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

44 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

A time limited backstop was one suggestion that the EU dismissed out of hand. Let's say 2 years.  That gives all interested parties (UK, EU, Ireland) 2 whole years to find a solution involving additional checks away from the border, technology, trusted trader schemes etc. 

 

If all 3 parties were truly dedicated to resolving the issue they could do it in 2 years. 

 

The reason a solution has not been found in the past 3 years is because you need all sides pulling in the same direction. Currently the EU and Ireland are not working with the UK to solve it. 

If you could not come up with suggestions for 3 years, you will not come up with suggestions in 2 years more.

Did you not read the last paragraph? 

[puipuitom]

9 hours ago, vogie said:

a) Why will it benefit him politically?

The EU has said the only deal on the table is Mrs Mays failed 3 times deal, what is there to talk about if the EU won't

b) listen to new ideas from the UK, they are as ever being intransigent.

c) Gove has said it is the EU that won't talk to Boris, who do you believe, well, you pays your money and you take your choice.

a) His beyong any comprehension high ego

b) waiting already for 3 years. The only = no, no, no, no, no, no...

c) simple solution to prove: go to the EU headquarters in Brussels and.. see …  Only.. No Boris, no Gove, no Nobody.

[puipuitom]

1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:

So by refusing to alter the backstop the EU 'succeed' in implementing a hard border? How is that in the best interests of the Irish? 

Eire has already an EU outer border for all NON-EU traffic. 

Interest of the Irish republic; simple, no products in, we total EU do NOT want in, like chlorince chicken, GMO food etc from.. USA ? 

Northern Irish: pity. Alternative: leave the UK and find a solution als EU associate.

[puipuitom]

1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:

This is like banging my head against a brick wall. I'll try once more.

 

- EU refuse to alter the backstop; why? Because they say the backstop will protect the invisible NI border.

- The WA won't get through parliament with the current backstop arrangement.

- So the UK will leave with no deal which will immediately result in a problem with the NI border. 

 

Surely a negotiated alteration to the backstop would be better than a guaranteed immediate 'problem' on 1st November? 

That;s what they did for 3 years.

[puipuitom]

8 hours ago, Jonnapat said:

That apart I wish people would stop calling Johnson things like Bo Jo like he's some kind of cuddly toy and not the egotistical person he is in real life.

Ask his girlfriend...

[puipuitom]

1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:

Not sure what you mean.  That it was the goal of the EU to use the border issue to prevent the UK leaving the EU? If that's what you mean, then yes I accept it. 

Read:

The 'backstop' was a British proposal, not one tabled by Ireland or the ...

https://www.irishtimes.com/.../the-backstop-was-a-british-proposal...

18 jan. 2019 - The 'backstop' was a British proposal, not one tabled by Ireland or the EU ... Brexit will have serious repercussions for our exports to the UK, .... The UK opted for and specifically requested a backstop that applies to the entirety of the UK. This idea that Tony Blair or some other shadowy figure schemed up ...

[puipuitom]

1 hour ago, ivor bigun said:

Except we import more from them than we export,so the extra import duties will not only cover that but give us a profit ,win win,

Tweh problem with Brexiteers is, they cannot search on Internet.

What the EU imports from the UK are mostly Industrial products, they buy there as .. its the best product for the same money. What happens if.. e.g. cars get a 10% import duty.. maybe end of UK car export to the EU. it's not a one-to-oen situation as you coudl see in that list.

Fot the British imports from the EU, it is for a very big part fresh fruits, vegetables etc. Quite dificult to find that outside the EU and get fresh and in time to the UK. No real alternative.

[puipuitom]

7 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Did the UK not sign the Good Friday agreements that ended the civil war (the "troubles" as you probably call it). Do they not include open borders between Ireland and N Ireland?

It proves the value of a UK signiture; at max 20 years.

See als the EU budget, 2013-2020, in which all agreed and signed for, inclusive the British: just 7 years, and.., clean their feet with it. 

[vinny41]

In 2018, petroleum and petroleum products were the UK’s single largest export to the EU, valued at £21 billion, 12% of all UK goods exports to the EU and 64% of all UK exports of petroleum and petroleum

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7851/CBP-7851.pdf

[puipuitom]

7 hours ago, vogie said:

a) You mean the Tory Party and the Brexit Party who are the only parties who are still fighting to honour the result of the referendum.

b) So you see if the EU are not willing to engage in any dialogue with the UK, by my reckoning we are being pushed into that corner, but when our backs are againgst the wall we have no option but to come out fighting, or die.

a) Please show me the part: "Leave", whatever the repercussions and consequenses are...  I only read a "leave". Therefore a second referendum: WHICH form of "leave". 48,11% voted for only ONE alternative: "Remain" (as it is ) 

b)  2 1/2 years of negociations, with even years before with Cameron.

[puipuitom]

7 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Don't care, nuke Ireland, it's worthless, should have handed it back in the GF agreement.

Give it to the EU, another deadbeat country for them to pump money into.

After robbing Ireland for a millenium by the English...

[puipuitom]

7 hours ago, Golden Triangle said:

Okay, I'll lay my cards on the table, I voted to remain, because it is what I firmly believed at the time to be in the best interest of the UK as whole,  I won't go into the ins & outs of my decision, but I firmly believe that the pigeons are now coming home to roost. And it ain't gonna be pretty for any of us.

 

At this moment in time I am completely peed off with our politicians and how they have kidnapped what the British (UK) people voted for, the majority voted to leave and as of today we are no closer to an amicable solution than we were over 3 years ago.

 

I want this travesty, farce, stupidity to be over once and for all so that we can all get back to living some form of normal life and not forever fretting over our future and standard of living which has deteriorated rapidly for the last few years.   

Pity for you as.. a converted Brexiteer is f...d ( I am not allowed to write the complete word from TV )  by the present "leaders" of your nation. Leave = NO DEAL Brexit, one of the many options possible, whatever might happen, bring back the UK to good old Longshanks England.. the hack  ( or is this also a "forbidden word "? Sorry, as non-native English speaker Ido not know all) .

[puipuitom]

8 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Or is there anybody out there who thinks that maybe Boris wasn't telling the truth? 

Telling... is one, behaving is a second. Boris was always clear: whatever.. "I WANT TO BE P.M. " ( even when the UK has to be brought back to "Mercia" alone ).  

[puipuitom]

7 hours ago, abrahamzvi said:

The EU has made compromises when negotiating the deal with ex PM May. Why renegotiate again? They are prepared to try to put more flexible interpretations to the one or the other clause, but not renegotiate a deal, which had taken more than two years to negotiate. Purely theoretically, what happens if Johnson renegotiates a deal and it is rejected by Westminster? Should the EU negotiate a further deal?

When I understand Brexiteers..,. Yes, every time the HoC reject the deal, the EU has to go further till.. the keys of the Elysee and Bundestag are in London, and the EU accepts the Btritish flag + left lane traffic.

[BritManToo]

Just now, puipuitom said:

When I understand Brexiteers..,. Yes, every time the HoC reject the deal, the EU has to go further till.. the keys of the Elysee and Bundestag are in London, and the EU accepts the Btritish flag + left lane traffic.

A better result than the UK flying the German flag.

[puipuitom]

7 hours ago, lagavulin1 said:

I don't see anyone mentioning the "divorce bill".  Macron was very quick to identify it as "A Sovereign Debt" or was he panicking? Is the cash a joker which could be played now or is BoJo not going to play it in time. No politician me. 

The UK's contribution to the EU budget - Commons Library briefing ...

https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7886

However, the European Commission also allocates funding directly to UK organisations, often following a competitive process. In recent years these funds have been worth around £1 billion - £2 billion to the UK. Accounting for these receipts results in the UK making an average net contribution of £7.9 billion between 2013 and 2017.

[puipuitom]

7 hours ago, vogie said:

But if by some miracle the EU sees sense and decides to offer a deal that would be agreeable to both sides I feel sure it would pass through parliament with ease, but maybe pigs will fly first.

Please inform the EU what you THEN want, as up till now, only… no, no, no,. no, no. no...

[puipuitom]

44 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

In 2018, petroleum and petroleum products were the UK’s single largest export to the EU, valued at £21 billion, 12% of all UK goods exports to the EU and 64% of all UK exports of petroleum and petroleum

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7851/CBP-7851.pdf

Enjoy it:   https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds2/taric/taric_consultation.jsp?Lang=en 

With unendless gratitude by the EU refineries. No competition anymore from UK refineries.

 

2710 20

-   Petroleum oils and oils obtained from bituminous minerals (other than crude) and preparations not elsewhere specified or included, containing by weight 70 % or more of petroleum oils or of oils obtained from bituminous minerals, these oils being the basic constituents of the preparations, containing biodiesel, other than waste oils :

-  -   Fuel oils :

2710 20 31

-  -  -   With a sulphur content not exceeding 0,1 % by weight

ERGA OMNES (ERGA OMNES 1011)

Third country duty (01-01-2012 - ) :  3.50 %

[puipuitom]

31 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

A better result than the UK flying the German flag.

Seen how the Germans could protect "their" currency… compared with the British Pound going towards an ounce… 

 

Did not check for an hour and..,. down again…

 

Edited August 8, 2019 by puipuitom