Expert slams govt for abandoning move requiring van operators to switch to microbus

[mok199]

3 hours ago, Chang_paarp said:

Do you really think the van owners are going to pay money to lower the suspension? Overloaded, and sagging or collapsed due to lack of maintenance is how the they get that "cool" lowered look.

Many of the private or tour group vans are lowered professionally with after market parts ...who do you think installs the new chrome wheels the new trick front valance kits ,the contoured running boards the pimped out lights, boom box stereos etc etc

[MikeN]

2 hours ago, Curt1591 said:

Can't wait for the microbuses dropping off and picking up passengers. They will be able to block far more lanes that a simple shuttle van!

Actually they are longer, not wider, so it will still only be one lane they block ????

[mok199]

3 hours ago, Vacuum said:

Nah, the 'lowered suspension' is due to the drivers habit to overload the vans with passengers and cargo.

hahaha  that's where the sparks come from...

[Vacuum]

2 hours ago, thailand49 said:

What is true is the person don't have any experience or clue!

It really doesn't matter what is driven if the operator bring with them the same murderess mentality! It is like giving the operator a bigger gun.

To reduce the problem, every driver hired must have a through background check, can't since there isn't a national data based. Then drivers must be special trained they are not working for themselves but working and representing a company that it is a privilege and not a right to drive for a living and if abused that privilege is taken away.

Then the commission based wage if exist must be gone, companies need to carry proper insurance and have records available for each vehicle daily and drivers must use these logs to inspect the vehicle prior to hitting the road each day any major items the vehicle must be taken out of service and drivers aren't force to take vehicle out that are unsafe.

There must be mandatory unannounced inspection of these records and random testing of drivers but of course nothing works without enforcement from agencies and ghost inspection of those agencies to reduce the corruption in the industry creating doubt is the key. The current system in Thailand for nearly everything " honor system " just doesn't work. Repeated offender must be penalized heavily removed or even closed down and heavy payout to victims even if the company has to be liquidated that will be a good start to change the culture here.

There will never be a device or technology in my lifetime that can prevent the murderess mentality of a human behind the wheel.  It is really simple but here official don't have a clue which is why things will never change.

 

The bus fares would skyrocket if they'd follow your suggestions (nothing wrong with them).

[Filipplenoir]

Soon this lecturer will be fired. 

[fullcave]

3 hours ago, Curt1591 said:

Can't wait for the microbuses dropping off and picking up passengers. They will be able to block far more lanes that a simple shuttle van!

Yes and much better to block the passing lane on the highway! But those overloaded pickup trucks will still be king of the passing lane. Hands down. 

[Srikcir]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

Sonthi Kotchawat, a lecturer on environment and public health at many universities, criticised Transport Minister Saksayam Chidchob for compromising public safety by changing the policy on mandatory change of vehicle.

Regardless of the justification for doing so, the policy change should have been first presented for public review and comment. If then the Minister disagrees with opposition comments, he should state the reasons why, preferably with supporting evidence. 

As private investments had been made in buses that would comply with the original government policy that would remove public vans from operation, I'm sure they would provide considerable remarks to the policy switch!

The Minister has failed the electorate.

As it is I hope that, should the policy switch go forward, the bus investors sue the government for reimbursement for their investment plus a reasonable profit and interest on their capital outlay.

The government must be held fiscally responsible for its policies. Otherwise, the Minister is acting with malfeasance negligence (sound familiar?).

[Airbagwill]

2 hours ago, Paul Henry said:

Converted delivery vans are illegal in many countries to be used as people movers,they do not have inbuilt roll over bars and braking standard is lower than whats require to transport passengers. Would love to know who is paying whom to reverse this law. Responsibilty to carry out ones roll in Government is not why these ministers get their job.

Minibuses don't have rollover bars either.

 

the Toyotas and Nissans used in Thailand are not converted delivery vans any more than "minibuses" are converted trucks........ they are purpose designed and used safely throughout the world.

Whereas I can't vouch in particular for the vehicles toyota sells in Thailand it is clear that this vehicle is successfully and relatively safely used throughout the planet. One therefore has to look at the figures and problems in Thailand.

firstly successive  governments in their wisdom do not have international standard statistics available to come to any conclusions. Secondly as this type of vehicle has been shown to be reliable elsewhere it would seem that Thailand is doing something wrong - e.g - the safety regulations enforced elsewhere are not being applied here.

so rather than pointlessly changing vehicles, it would be much better to install legislation and enforcement that improves these vehicles as they are used in Thailand.

for example...

Seatbelts are no good without anchorage

Drivers hours are not monitored

I don't know aboutrhg the regs concerning body structure.

Speedlimiters don't appear to be fitted

Passenger numbers ae regulated but not adhered to.

Costs and therefore fares need to be regulated with an eye to safety.

Mileage, sevice and vehicle maintenance need to be logged.

...and of course the police (or other R/S organisation need to be trained.

 

Its no good replacing one vehicle with another that has no real advantages and just hoping that might work.

They haven't even analysed what the "minivans" (in UK they are called minibuses) are used for.

They are used long distance

As tourist shuttles

but a MASSIVE number are used in transporting workers to and from industry. 

[Airbagwill]

4 hours ago, Vacuum said:

Nah, the 'lowered suspension' is due to the drivers habit to overload the vans with passengers and cargo.

No they aren't, they is a lot of "illegal" customisation of tase vehicles (and buses and minibuses) which disrupts handling characteristics. 

[Curt1591]

2 hours ago, MikeN said:

Actually they are longer, not wider, so it will still only be one lane they block ????

Think "diagonal". 

[atyclb]

12 hours ago, pegman said:

The "Suicide Van" lives on!

 

man thaat could have been a song name by INXS

[Airbagwill]

To suggest that "minibuses" in general are safer than vans also is an enormous leap of faith, unless the government has already got legislation in place to specify certain standards....is do why not apply similarly to vans?

[thailand49]

7 hours ago, Vacuum said:

The bus fares would skyrocket if they'd follow your suggestions (nothing wrong with them).

You must be Thai!  So it is fare over the life of people to you. I've worked along with the Transportation Dept and industry for over 40 years and done a few assignments with the California hwy Patrol. 

Sure it is all relative but there are so many people in the offices of the Land Transport today sitting doing nothing making those clueless suggestion. Maybe get their butts out and do some inspection and fine some of these drivers and companies and help keep what you are so afraid of Skyrocket bus fare.

What I suggested isn't new!  Companies like United Parcel, Federal Express, Van transportation like Super Shuttles and countless of other in the business, food and product delivers driver majority Class B, must inspect their vehicles beginning of shift any major road safety like brakes the vehicle is taken out of service and a backup is used companies are required to have mechanics onsite, end of shift when the vehicle is refueled those individually log books in each vehicle must be review and items fixed asap if not a replacement is ordered companies can't retaliate against the driver! Example: you think about nationally how many vehicles U.P.S. has with the number of drivers how many miles of delivery they make each day all drivers regardless of where they come from and their qualification are all retrained again this might cost time and money!  but the returns are obvious to many but not you. Sure your thinking price of package but I guess if they cut all the restrictions and training and just let the driver run over and kill as long as you get your package cheap that is all that matters to you?

I've trained and certified close to a hundred of commercial drivers from A-B, including retraining just regular Class C, drivers who are prone to having accident using many of the rules in commercial driving then moved on to the airline industry and trained hundred more throughout the country how to drive, operate and tow aircraft around the airport which cost millions of dollars. I trained my Thai wife, son many of his friends from the neighborhood and Techno school and all as far as I know never been in an accident.

In the end, time taken to educated, train and enforce these simple rules saves lives most of all money which you seem to miss the overall big picture.  In the 40 years in the industry the DOUBT of being tested and lost of earning a good living which was a privilege to be in the profession I was tested no more than 5 times.

Money over lives unbelievable from a person from the West!

[Fred white]

14 hours ago, jaltsc said:

“Vans are dangerous and cause five times more accidents than buses,”

 

The only reason is that there are five times more vans on the road than there are micro buses.

 

So, he thinks that having incompetent, drunk, and over worked van drivers switching to driving a larger vehicle, without proper training (or in most cases, no training at all) will make things safer? You cannot make up this kind of stupid. Let the carnage begin!!!

 

Yeah when the van driver falls asleep and hits another vehicle that vehicle might stand a chance of surviving when it's a bus the chances are slim to none

[Airbagwill]

10 hours ago, Fred white said:

Yeah when the van driver falls asleep and hits another vehicle that vehicle might stand a chance of surviving when it's a bus the chances are slim to none

How cone? And what are you basing this on......sounds like pure assumption.

I would have though a tachograph would be a far better preventative for that.

[Airbagwill]

10 hours ago, Fred white said:

Vans are dangerous and cause five times more accidents than buses,”

The more you think about that statement the more ridiculous it seems.

[Airbagwill]

BTW the Toyota Commuter does have roll over protective ring construction and of course one can specify various passenger safety features such as side air bags seat belts.

In the  minibuses suggested the safety specs were not defined but the Thai built bodies are unlikely to have roll over specs or air bags or head restraints.

The new commuter has more impact absorpsion at the front and a whole range of safety features. 

Surely it would make sense for the authorities to insist on trading up the safety specs on these and any future minivans purchased rather than taking a massive, expensive step backwards?

[geoffbezoz]

Just now, Airbagwill said:

BTW the Toyota Commuter does have roll over protective ring construction and of course one can specify various passenger safety features such as side sir bags seat belts.

Minibuses the safety specs were not defined but the Thai built bodies are unlikely to have roll over specs or air bags or head restraints.

The new commuter has more impact absorpsion at the front and a whole range of safety features. 

Surely it would make sense for the authorities to insist on trading up the safety specs on these and any future minivans purchased rather than taking a massive, expensive step backwards?

Excellent idea and perhaps so that sole operators could afford this step up perhaps the government would subsidise the purchase of these vehicles so one could buy for say 1 month deposit over 120 month repayment period at a subsidised 1 % annual interest. It would provide a small stimulus to the economy in the auto sector but importantly allow people to travel in a safer vehicle.

[Dogmatix]

All the comments about using the same awful drivers who are forced to drive fast and work long hours for low pay are correct. But at least here was a policy to try to make the passengers more comfortable before dying in gruesome accidents.

 

Now we have a policy that is purely to benefit the van owners from a well known political family known for for its innovative vote buying techniques that endeared them to Thaksin.

[a977]

23 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

It is a symptom of many Thai administrations to simply ban anything they see as a problem....this is often dine whilst over looking at the underlying causes or the future ramifications.

Banning of vans did not look at the whole picture, did not have sufficient statistical evidence and was so impractical it was mind-bogglingly incinceivable that anyone in their right mind would adopt it. For a moment though some politicians thought it might make them look good.... until common sense prevailed.

 

0bviously you have not driven one of these coffins on wheels, if you had you would not make such a stupid statement, common sense has nothing to do with un safe vans, that the drivers keep the tyre pressure to low and they overload, they are only licenced to carry 12 passengers not 15 plus, the instability of these vans amazes me, having driven one from Pattaya to Chaing Mai and back I swear I will never set foot in one again. Just so you know I have a Heavy-combination plus Bus endorsement licence in Australia which requires a medical certificate, something I doubt the Thais have to get, plus 5 hours training which they definitely don't get!!!!!!!!

[Airbagwill]

45 minutes ago, a977 said:

0bviously you have not driven one of these coffins on wheels, if you had you would not make such a stupid statement, common sense has nothing to do with un safe vans, that the drivers keep the tyre pressure to low and they overload, they are only licenced to carry 12 passengers not 15 plus, the instability of these vans amazes me, having driven one from Pattaya to Chaing Mai and back I swear I will never set foot in one again. Just so you know I have a Heavy-combination plus Bus endorsement licence in Australia which requires a medical certificate, something I doubt the Thais have to get, plus 5 hours training which they definitely don't get!!!!!!!!

When in a discussuon i usuallybpreferto concentrate on the message rather than the messenger..... it seems to me that those obsessed with the experience and qualifications of the messenger are unable to come up with a reasoned argument against the message.  And have a tendency  to think their assumptions are fact rather than what they really are pure supposition.

 

Not only have i driven one (the company i worked for at Amata Nakorn)) and several other minivans/ buses around the world I have a good knowledge of automotive engineering and road safety. I've worked in the automotive industry in both UK and Thailand.

Did you check your vehicke before leaving? To what extent? It has been pointed out that suspension mods are " professional" this is if course rubbish. Mods between sprung and unsprung mass are always dubious unless accompanied by copious scientific testing. Also lack of maintenance of the vehicle is a major problem...again the relationship between sprung and unsprung mass is critical. I would say your personal experience (sample of one?) is misleading as the handling of these vehicles even with a full passenger load is usually acceotable so long as maintenance is constant and recorded. Again this requires monitoring by an appropriately trained body.

This seems a far more rational line of action than attempting to replace a fleet that I suspect most people on this thread have no idea of the size of, with a fleet of undefined and no safer vehicles.

I have to say that the monitoring of ALL drivers of public transport that is undertaken in Oz and EU is the way to go.

BTW as someone who has driven extensively including both HGV and buses i think drivers are the last people to consult on road safety and changing from a large vehicle to a small one is like putting on a different pair of shoes...... They just don't feel right 

 

You might also want to bear in mind that far fewer people due in Vans than do on 2- wheeled and 4-wheeled private vehicles.

You might also like to know that I have driven over half a million kilometres in Thailand.

As for road safety, why do you think i chose the double-entendre of "airbag"?

[Fred white]

4 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

The more you think about that statement the more ridiculous it seems.

That was not my comment if you look back my comment was a reply to this

[Airbagwill]

1 hour ago, Fred white said:

That was not my comment if you look back my comment was a reply to this

I never implied it was your statement - anyone who read it can tell it is ridiculous regardless of who said it. As I always say, it is the message not the messenger that is important.

[dcnx]

On 8/12/2019 at 8:00 AM, jaiyen said:

I was also told...

Then it must be true.