Is the closure of your favorite bar or restaurant imminent?

[metempsychotic]

On 10/11/2019 at 12:31 AM, shdmn said:

There are more burger and steak joints than ever.  For every one that closes 2 more open up.  But yea, the ThaiVisa peanut gallery say they are all going away so it must be true...

Point well missed indeed. 

[Leaver]

18 hours ago, fhickson said:

you do this and in no time everybodys selling at cost, or at a loss.

You do this, and it's easy to fall off your balcony.  ????

[Leaver]

23 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Yes, just the perfunctory wipe with a rather grimy damp cloth. 

Yes, I know. 

 

You also get some stinky beer coolers as well. 

[Leaver]

15 hours ago, wellred said:

 

Or maybe as they were never colonised they developed a super sized ego which leads them to not actually think through their business decisions and refuse to let anyone criticise them.

 

Thailand looks pretty well colonized to me.  ????

[yogi100]

On 10/1/2019 at 10:05 AM, Leaver said:

Do you think places like The Pig and Whistle and The Butcher's Arms were poorly managed. or bought by dreamers?  They had been around for years.  Usually, poorly managed places close quite quickly.  

 

As more of these long standing businesses close, will you continue to blame poor management?   

I used to go in both the P&W and the Butchers Arms. There was nothing wrong with the management as far as I could see. There just are not enough punters any more.

 

Rosie O Grady's next door to the P&W might now get a bit more trade but seeing how quiet Soi 7 has become in the last few years I bet the people in ROG's are just marking time and hoping for the best. There's little more they can do.

 

As far as I can remember both restaurants ROG'S and the P&W have been there for at least 20 years.

 

The Butchers Arms must have been there for around 10 years. I also remember the Two Fat Ladies Pharmacy that was next door, those girls were angels if you had any minor health problems. They've been gone about 6 years.

[yogi100]

On 10/8/2019 at 7:57 AM, Ling Kae said:

None of my favorite bars or restaurants are closing in the near future and I think focusing on what is closing is meaningless.

 

Like another poster mentioned   there are a lot of new bars and restaurants opening. Today, for the first time l went into a restaurant and bar called Cheap Charlie's.  I just could not believe how busy this new place is. There were about 20/25 tables, all full of farangs. I enjoyed a nice meal and a nice beer here.

 

I really could not care if half the bars in Pattaya closed, there are some terrible places out there and closure could get a better owner in there.

 

My hotel is ramping up now, 80% full and all farangs but no Chinese or Indians.  I would guess that there are more guests this year than last year. I really think concentrating on the new places and offerings is more important than concentrating on imminent closures.

 

 

The fact that Cheap Charlies offers meals like the roast chicken dinner for 100 baht is the reason it's busy. 

 

With the lousy exchange rates places like Charlies are always going to appear to thrive.

 

Before it was the Queens Arms. That was cheap but didn't last long.

[yogi100]

On 10/10/2019 at 11:17 PM, sunnyboy2018 said:

PapaGayos, sniff sniff, silver foil stained brown, has not rocked for over 10 years.

Papagayos

 

Drink Ponces R Us.

[yogi100]

10 hours ago, shdmn said:

You seem to really hate Thailand.  Are you even here or do you even still come back?  If so why?  So you can keep complaining?

He's telling the truth, hating Thailand is the last thing he's doing. He's commenting, you're reading what he's writing and so are the rest of us.

 

The was a bar off Walking St in Pattaya that's thankfully gone now that used to play black man's gangsta rap 'music' at full blast.

 

This is in a town whose bar customers are 90% middle aged and elderly white men. There are other bars playing the same. music and also struggling.  One of them was Paradise Agogo in LKM. I dunno if it still does.

 

When you suggest something a bit more in keeping with the clientele you are told the girls can't dance to that.

 

The do not dance anyway they just hold the pole and casually sway backwards and forwards. That's not 'dancing' so what does it matter what the music is, it might as well be something the punters are likely to enjoy listening to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by yogi100

[fhickson]

9 hours ago, yogi100 said:

The fact that Cheap Charlies offers meals like the roast chicken dinner for 100 baht is the reason it's busy. 

 

With the lousy exchange rates places like Charlies are always going to appear to thrive.

 

Before it was the Queens Arms. That was cheap but didn't last long.

most of the money is made on drinks which are about 40 baht

 

i like ordering the meal without a drink, then just buying a beer at the 7-11 afterwards.

 

bakery down the street also has 10 baht pastries after 5 pm.

[jacko45k]

12 hours ago, yogi100 said:

Rosie O Grady's next door to the P&W might now get a bit more trade but seeing how quiet Soi 7 has become in the last few years I bet the people in ROG's are just marking time and hoping for the best. There's little more they can do.

I have posted that I tried ROGs and that it was dead, although that was after some work in there, to move the main bar into the dining area, close off the former bar and pool playing area, and open a door closer to the 2nd Rd end. I had heard it was sold already, and appears to be reducing rental costs by being smaller.  Surprised if it has, because the Pig next door doesn't look as if it has. It didn't look promising, it was low season but the limited foot traffic down soi 7 didn't look like the type to use that place. (They are all in LK Metro area).

The food I had was obviously prepackaged, and had not been prepared too carefully, and with a single customer they should do better. Sad really.

As you say, both very long term venues in Pattaya, and I even took a visiting Londoner pal in the Pig and Whistle a few years back, and he was feeling right at home in there. 

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by jacko45k

[yogi100]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

I have posted that I tried ROGs and that it was dead, although that was after some work in there, to move the main bar into the dining area, close off the former bar and pool playing area, and open a door closer to the 2nd Rd end. I had heard it was sold already, and appears to be reducing rental costs by being smaller.  Surprised if it has, because the Pig next door doesn't look as if it has. It didn't look promising, it was low season but the limited foot traffic down soi 7 didn't look like the type to use that place. (They are all in LK Metro area).

The food I had was obviously prepackaged, and had not been prepared too carefully, and with a single customer they should do better. Sad really.

As you say, both very long term venues in Pattaya, and I even took a visiting Londoner pal in the Pig and Whistle a few years back, and he was feeling right at home in there. 

 

Please don't tell me one of our colonial friends ran in, stabbed someone and ran out again!

[yogi100]

4 hours ago, fhickson said:

most of the money is made on drinks which are about 40 baht

 

i like ordering the meal without a drink, then just buying a beer at the 7-11 afterwards.

 

bakery down the street also has 10 baht pastries after 5 pm.

They charge you an extra 20 B if you order the meal to take away probably to cover cost of the polystyrene box which is unusual even for the LOS. Maybe it's also to do with not having bought a drink as well. But at 120 B it's still not too bad for 2019.

 

What street is this bakery just down. Bukhaow, Diana Lengkee?

I know the bakery next to the Triangle in Soi Xcyte and the one in Lengkee a little way past the 7/11 but don't know one that sells stuff off cheap? And I've always got my eye out for a bargain.

[Leaver]

17 hours ago, yogi100 said:

I used to go in both the P&W and the Butchers Arms. There was nothing wrong with the management as far as I could see. There just are not enough punters any more.

 

That's the way I see it as well. 

 

Nice establishments, running a good operation, with good service, but just not enough turn over anymore to cover expenses, let alone make a profit. 

 

It's the reason I started this thread. 

 

No bar / restaurant / hotel / guest house etc is immune. 

[Leaver]

17 hours ago, yogi100 said:

The fact that Cheap Charlies offers meals like the roast chicken dinner for 100 baht is the reason it's busy. 

 

True, but that means it's poaching customers from other restaurants, and many of the other restaurants can not compete at that price point because they most likely have higher expenses, namely, rent, so they eventually close. 

 

 

[yogi100]

3 hours ago, Leaver said:

True, but that means it's poaching customers from other restaurants, and many of the other restaurants can not compete at that price point because they most likely have higher expenses, namely, rent, so they eventually close. 

 

 

CCs do not own the premises so must pay rent.

 

They also pay staff, electricity and all the other costs just like their competitors. If others close it will be because of a lack of punters and an inability to be competitive. 

 

The Western attitude to hard times is to be competitive. Look at the success of the Wetherspoon chain of pubs in Britain.

More British shoppers use Lidl than use Waitrose because of price.

 

The Thai attitude is to compensate by putting prices up.

 

I patronise the Thai Hole in the Wall cafe in Bukhaow down towards LKM because it's good grub and affordable just like CCs.

 

Getting 37 B for our £ has been a massive kick in the nuts for the majority of us UK customers who usually feel no loyalty to any eating places.

 

Many of us don't even know nor care who owns nor operates what. They are more concerned about their personal budgets and are attracted by the menus on the notice boards outside. 

 

We also patronise bars with the best girls in and cheapest drinks. I for one could not care less who owns them nor who I'm being poached from.

 

Hard and changing times drive many enterprises to the wall. Look at the boarded up shops in many British high streets. Whole rows of them in some places. The same in the USA.

[fhickson]

12 hours ago, yogi100 said:

They charge you an extra 20 B if you order the meal to take away probably to cover cost of the polystyrene box which is unusual even for the LOS. Maybe it's also to do with not having bought a drink as well. But at 120 B it's still not too bad for 2019.

 

What street is this bakery just down. Bukhaow, Diana Lengkee?

I know the bakery next to the Triangle in Soi Xcyte and the one in Lengkee a little way past the 7/11 but don't know one that sells stuff off cheap? And I've always got my eye out for a bargain.

they are all over town. all look about the same with glass case in front near sidewalk. same pastries also.

 

small sign changes from 35 or so baht to 10, or i even saw 5, at around 5pm to get rid of leftovers.

 

theres one on soi bukhaow, walk towards jomtien and its on left side before the clothes market.

 

i started eating these for dinner. they are great. i can eat a full meal for under 20 baht.

[chrisandsu]

On 10/13/2019 at 10:47 PM, fhickson said:

classic...

 

for those who still fall for this sort of thing or who are new, just never talk about money/employment. i dont even discuss it with family these days.

 

write down a standard answer or response to the money/employment question on your smartphone and refer to it as needed, and the answer or change of subject becomes second nature. whomever is asking will get along just fine without your info!

Yep . What do you do is effectively asking how much money you earn ! I shun networkers like the plague . 

[fhickson]

2 hours ago, chrisandsu said:

Yep . What do you do is effectively asking how much money you earn ! I shun networkers like the plague 

could also be boring people who cant talk about interesting subjects, just blokes who cant stop talking period and just blow chunks, people who cant accept a holiday, people projecting their financial problems voicing them as a question onto you, etc etc

 

whatever it is usually involves a problem of the person asking and has nothing to do with concern over your financial well being or pure interest.

 

thus in the example above some bloke needs to show off the bars he owns because there is some insecurity there, he needs validation, probably because hes losing money, or he cant adapt to the money he has come into for some reason. either way, recipe for disaster.

Edited October 15, 2019 by fhickson

[jacko45k]

14 hours ago, yogi100 said:

Look at the boarded up shops in many British high streets.

If they stopped letting beggars sit there I might be more inclined. 

[Leaver]

17 hours ago, yogi100 said:

CCs do not own the premises so must pay rent.

 

They also pay staff, electricity and all the other costs just like their competitors. If others close it will be because of a lack of punters and an inability to be competitive. 

 

The Western attitude to hard times is to be competitive. Look at the success of the Wetherspoon chain of pubs in Britain.

More British shoppers use Lidl than use Waitrose because of price.

 

The Thai attitude is to compensate by putting prices up.

 

I patronise the Thai Hole in the Wall cafe in Bukhaow down towards LKM because it's good grub and affordable just like CCs.

 

Getting 37 B for our £ has been a massive kick in the nuts for the majority of us UK customers who usually feel no loyalty to any eating places.

 

Many of us don't even know nor care who owns nor operates what. They are more concerned about their personal budgets and are attracted by the menus on the notice boards outside. 

 

We also patronise bars with the best girls in and cheapest drinks. I for one could not care less who owns them nor who I'm being poached from.

 

Hard and changing times drive many enterprises to the wall. Look at the boarded up shops in many British high streets. Whole rows of them in some places. The same in the USA.

I never suggested Cheap Charlies owned their building / land. 

 

There's a common problem, in Thailand in general, that when you first start a business here, you have your contract / lease, and you know what rent you have to pay.  Many inject capital, and run a reasonable operation. 

 

Over time, a business may enjoy some success, building up some regular clientele, and also attracting new customers. 

 

Then, comes time for a rent review, or a new contract / lease to be negotiated.  The greedy Thai landlord has seen his building busy, and a reasonably successful operation being run out of his place, so, he raises the rent that really gouges what are probably already fine margins. 

 

This leaves the owner no choice but to pass on this increased expense to the customer, and virtually overnight, the business goes from having some of the cheaper drinks / coffee / food / accommodation etc in the area, to being more expensive, with the customers unable to see any changes to facilities, product, or service, to justify the higher prices. 

 

Then, as you say, the clientele move to another place, and the business goes up for sale, or broke, or the owner relocates the business at great expense.  The Thai landlord rents out again, pocketing key money, and the cycle starts again, although I would suggest it would not be so easy to find a tenant these days. 

 

This makes it very difficult for a business to remain competitive, and I am sure this fate awaits Hungry Hippo and Cheap Charlies, and others, in the future. 

 

As far as a lack of punters are concerned, this coming high season will be very telling, for a variety of internal, and external forces, effecting Thailand's tourism industry. 

 

I agree that customers are not so loyal here, and with harder times for those living here on fixed incomes, and tourist not having as much money to spend on their holiday, many will seek out cheaper options. 

 

This is one reason why you will read my comment, "it's a race to the bottom here" as not only the Chinese and Indians seek out the cheapest food & beverage in town, but now also many westerners. 

 

 

[Rimmer]

Six off topic post that are trying to hijack the thread have been removed, topic not about air fares it is:

Is the closure of your favorite bar or restaurant imminent?

 

[shdmn]

On 10/15/2019 at 1:44 AM, yogi100 said:

 

I patronise the Thai Hole in the Wall cafe in Bukhaow down towards LKM because it's good grub and affordable just like CCs.

If you are talking about the place I think you are talking about,  they raised their prices.  So not such a good deal anymore and, as you would expect, not as busy anymore as a result. 

Edited October 16, 2019 by shdmn

[yogi100]

1 hour ago, shdmn said:

If you are talking about the place I think you are talking about,  they raised their prices.  So not such a good deal anymore and, as you would expect, not as busy anymore as a result. 

It's also sometimes referred to as The Tin Cup Cafe.

 

Just before you come to Sugar Sugar on the other side of the road.

[fhickson]

9 hours ago, Leaver said:

Then, as you say, the clientele move to another place, and the business goes up for sale, or broke, or the owner relocates the business at great expense.  The Thai landlord rents out again, pocketing key money, and the cycle starts again, although I would suggest it would not be so easy to find a tenant these days. 

it sounds like giving a thai landlord key money is at the root of many closures, as it works as an incentive to raise rents and to expect another bulk payment with a new tenant.

 

ime thais have difficulty budgeting over time, thus the need for key money all at once may be needed and not just wanted in a vicious cycle.

 

as tourism gets worse and presdure may increase on landlords it may be worthwhile for business owners to stand their ground and refuse key money payments, or pay it month by month rather then up front.

Edited October 16, 2019 by fhickson

[shdmn]

Kiss Food totally empty tonight.  No Farangs anywhere.  Ignore all those Farangs you see in the picture.  It may look almost full but those are paid actors or photoshopped.  Also Beefeaters in the background there was also absolutely empty full.  No almost all Farangs.   Pattaya totally doooomed!!!

 

 

Edited October 16, 2019 by shdmn

[Jip99]

On 10/15/2019 at 7:36 AM, yogi100 said:

They charge you an extra 20 B if you order the meal to take away probably to cover cost of the polystyrene box which is unusual even for the LOS. Maybe it's also to do with not having bought a drink as well. But at 120 B it's still not too bad for 2019.

 

What street is this bakery just down. Bukhaow, Diana Lengkee?

I know the bakery next to the Triangle in Soi Xcyte and the one in Lengkee a little way past the 7/11 but don't know one that sells stuff off cheap? And I've always got my eye out for a bargain.

 

 

I refused to pay the 20 Baht takeaway charge, I failed to see the logic of it.

 

I urged the management to reconsider the charge on the basis that labour, cleaning, crockery costs vs a few Baht for a polystyrene box levelled itself out. IMO it also sent out the wrong message. The charge was waived (only because I made a fuss) but the manager was unconvinced claiming that they add the charge because they lose out on drinks sales on takeaways........ thank you fhickson for pouring cold water on that argument.

 

Of course it's not the 20 Baht, it is the principal. I put the saved 20 Baht in the tip box.

 

Just by way of example consider Chow Mein Charley's in LK Metro....... eat at the tables or takeaway, same price. 

Edited October 16, 2019 by Jip99

[Beggar]

11 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

Then, comes time for a rent review, or a new contract / lease to be negotiated.  The greedy Thai landlord has seen his building busy, and a reasonably successful operation being run out of his place, so, he raises the rent that really gouges what are probably already fine margins. 

 

This leaves the owner no choice but to pass on this increased expense to the customer, and virtually overnight, the business goes from having some of the cheaper drinks / coffee / food / accommodation etc in the area, to being more expensive, with the customers unable to see any changes to facilities, product, or service, to justify the higher prices. 

 

Then, as you say, the clientele move to another place, and the business goes up for sale, or broke, or the owner relocates the business at great expense.  The Thai landlord rents out again, pocketing key money, and the cycle starts again, although I would suggest it would not be so easy to find a tenant these days. 

 

This makes it very difficult for a business to remain competitive, and I am sure this fate awaits Hungry Hippo and Cheap Charlies, and others, in the future. 

 

This is common practice in the western world. Has nothing to do with Thailand. I think Thais simply learn more and more how to make money the way it is done in the western world. Nothing special - but for sure not an easy place for western dreamers anymore. But the old rule still exists. If you want to make a million in Thailand simply invest much more than this amount. The same might work in many other countries. It does not depend so much on the country but on the dreamer. 

[shdmn]

4 hours ago, yogi100 said:

It's also sometimes referred to as The Tin Cup Cafe.

 

Just before you come to Sugar Sugar on the other side of the road.

That sounds like the place.  I just call it "Hole in the Wall".  I used to go there all the time but not anymore.  At least it's not a problem getting a table anymore or having to share it with someone since they raised their prices.

Edited October 16, 2019 by shdmn

[Ron jeremy]

7 hours ago, shdmn said:

Kiss Food totally empty tonight.  No Farangs anywhere.  Ignore all those Farangs you see in the picture.  It may look almost full but those are paid actors or photoshopped.  Also Beefeaters in the background there was also absolutely empty full.  No almost all Farangs.   Pattaya totally doooomed!!!

 

 

I don't get your sarcasm, I may need glasses, but I am not seeing the place packed with falang customers. Very few in fact.

[jacko45k]

10 hours ago, fhickson said:

it sounds like giving a thai landlord key money is at the root of many closures, as it works as an incentive to raise rents and to expect another bulk payment with a new tenant.

Is key money  a feature in the Buakhao area too? I thought it was asked mainly in Walking St, and it was substantial. Call it key money, or a deposit you can't get back eh?