Israel bars U.S. Democratic lawmakers under pressure from Trump

[abrahamzvi]

7 hours ago, JamJar said:

 

His post made sense to me. Perhaps it's difficult to see both sides when you have extreme views.

You are right, but does Ezra see both sides? It doesn't seem so

[abrahamzvi]

1 hour ago, chokrai said:

Except CNN MNSBC and all the rest of the fake news. 

You mean 95% of the news media,. Also facts are fake news, as President Trump says (listen to his speech yesterday) " don't believe what they say and what you see, things are different", i.e. even if you see red, it isn't so......

[wayned]

44 minutes ago, chokrai said:

First it was Russia then it was racism then it was Nationalist then it was White Nationalist and now it is White supremacist. Same old bullcrap. We dont believe any of their crap anymore. 

Believe it!  You don't have to listen to any of the news, all that you have to do is listen to the crap that comes out of POTUS's mouth every time he opens it!  It's not fake. just open your ears and listen! No matter how you spin it, it's racist, white supremacist and dangerous! and is undermining the democratic principles set forth in the constitution. DT is a political terrorist whose continued divisive rhetoric and policies embolden his followers to engage in violent acts such as Charlottesville, Dayton and El Paso, and, most likely, more to come.

[Bluespunk]

43 minutes ago, chokrai said:

First it was Russia then it was racism then it was Nationalist then it was White Nationalist and now it is White supremacist. Same old bullcrap. We dont believe any of their crap anymore. 

Because you don’t want to believe it, not because it’s wrong. 

[AgMech Cowboy]

I would not let them in either. All they will do is interview the sad downtrodden Palestinians and shout how terrible the Palestinian people are being treated. It is sad what's happening there, but it's not all Israel's fault.  The Palestinians have refused their land back, wanting instead to annihilate all Jews, not coexistence.

[Orton Rd]

These two idiots not content with stirring up enough hate at home now want to start bleating about the Palestinians being 'victims' and posing for media ops on the home ground of Palestinian terrorism. They've got some nerve trying to get into Israel in the first place. Trump advised there was no 'pressure'.

[abrahamzvi]

3 hours ago, PaceArrow said:

Good move by the PM of Israel to deny these two individuals a visit into his country. These two Muslims should have never been elected to Congress in the first place. I seriously doubt they will be reelected in 2020 by the voters of Minnesota and Michigan after their true radical agenda has been displayed with their anti-America and anti-Semitic Rhetoric.  

Radical left wing Liberal Socialist Democrats are on the losing end for 2020!!!!

Let's wait and see. PM Netanyahu and you may be in for a big and sad surprise in 2020........

[RJRS1301]

  3 hours ago, PaceArrow said:

Good move by the PM of Israel to deny these two individuals a visit into his country. These two Muslims should have never been elected to Congress in the first place. I seriously doubt they will be reelected in 2020 by the voters of Minnesota and Michigan after their true radical agenda has been displayed with their anti-America and anti-Semitic Rhetoric.  

Radical left wing Liberal Socialist Democrats are on the losing end for 2020!!!!

 

 

 

So is it just these two Muslims you object to being democratically elected?

Any other groups that should not stand for elections?

[losworld]

So looks like Israel is unable to take any criticism of its policies... sad state.

[wwest5829]

8 hours ago, Somtamnication said:

WOW. POTUS agreeing that two bonafide elected members of Congress, which is the co-equal branch of government, should not go to Israel.

 

Treason? Supporting another foreign government? Didn't he tell them to go back home? Isn't one of these congresswomen's ancestral home...............Palestine? So she can't "go back home"!

 

Surreal, this yankee president.

Not, “should not” but due to his direct action “can not”. Where is the, “House Un-American Activities Committee” when I need them. As an American and one with Ashkenazi DNA I denounce and condemn this action barring elected representatives of the American citizens from entering an American allied country receiving American foreign aid. I further accuse and condemn Donald J. Trump for interference in the foreign affairs of an allied country for his personal political gain.

[wwest5829]

4 hours ago, PaceArrow said:

Good move by the PM of Israel to deny these two individuals a visit into his country. These two Muslims should have never been elected to Congress in the first place. I seriously doubt they will be reelected in 2020 by the voters of Minnesota and Michigan after their true radical agenda has been displayed with their anti-America and anti-Semitic Rhetoric.  

Radical left wing Liberal Socialist Democrats are on the losing end for 2020!!!!

“Should not have been elected...”. That is for the citizens of their electoral districts to decide, not you or me. Deal with the remnants of the American participatory democracy. Or do you favor a right wing fascist government that will keep everyone inline!

[Enoon]

2 hours ago, abrahamzvi said:

What the hell are you talking about?????

 

The term became was first widely used, at beginning of the 20th century, to describe the camps the British set up during the Boer War of 1899-1902:

 

British concentration camps - Wikipedia

".........to prevent the Boers from resupplying from a home base many tens of thousands of men, women and children were forcibly moved into the concentration camps"

 

"Over 26,000 women and children perished in these concentration camps"

 

"........but the Boer War concentration camp system was the first time that a whole nation had been systematically targeted, and the first in which some whole regions had been depopulated"

 

See also: Reconcentrados (reconcentration camps) during "Ten Years War" in Cuba, 1868-78.

 

 

[Sujo]

Seems some on here are quite ok with the president asking a foreign govt to stop a US citizen from travelling.

 

 

[Sujo]

3 hours ago, chokrai said:

First it was Russia then it was racism then it was Nationalist then it was White Nationalist and now it is White supremacist. Same old bullcrap. We dont believe any of their crap anymore. 

But you believe Trump and his 13,000 lies.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Seems some on here are quite ok with the president asking a foreign govt to stop a US citizen from travelling.

 

 

There is nothing OK with that whether the citizen is a regular citizen or an elected government representative as in these cases. But that said, I think Israel is within their rights to deny entrance to anyone based on their rules, as is any country. Being a pro BDS activist is against their rules for entry, whether people think that is reasonable or not doesn't matter. But the issue here is that Israel was going to make any exception because these are congresswomen thus part of the U.S. government (a close ally) but then "trump" had to stick his nose in! 

[Sujo]

2 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

These two idiots not content with stirring up enough hate at home now want to start bleating about the Palestinians being 'victims' and posing for media ops on the home ground of Palestinian terrorism. They've got some nerve trying to get into Israel in the first place. Trump advised there was no 'pressure'.

Cause Trump doesnt stir up hatred much. 

[dexterm]

If many readers and viewers were not previously aware of issues surrounding the Israeli Palestinian conflict, they are now. Nice one Donald.

 

This could have been a PR coup for Israel.."Look how open we are!"..but not anymore. More are now aware of the truth about Israeli repression.

 

Looks like Netanyahu has now made criticism of Israel illegal, and members of the US Congress which have given $billions of aid to Israel are only welcome if they agree with Netanyahu's and Trump's policies. No dissent welcome in the the only so called democracy in the Middle East. Not only can Israel restrict the freedom of movement of 4.5 million indigenous Palestinians under illegal occupation, they can prevent the entry of anyone who shows any non violent sympathy for the Palestinians too.

 

It's a slippery slope for a so called democracy if the only way it thinks it can survive is by stifling any criticism. A clear sign of weakness.

 

To the credit of AIPAC, and other Jewish leaders such as Bernie Sanders and Chuck Schumer, they have also condemned Netanyahu's move.

 

“Banning Congresswomen Omar and Tlaib from entering Israel and Palestine is a sign of enormous disrespect to these elected leaders, to the United States Congress, and to the principles of democracy,” the Vermont senator Bernie Sanders tweeted.
He added: “It is disgusting that a bigot like Trump is attacking @RashidaTlaib and @IlhanMN in this way. Opposing Netanyahu’s policies is not ‘hating the Jewish people.’
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/15/israels-decision-to-block-congresswomen-omar-and-tlaib-draws-widespread-criticism?

 

“Denying entry to members of the United States Congress is a sign of weakness, not strength. It will only hurt the U.S.-Israeli relationship and support for Israel in America. No democratic society should fear an open debate. Many strong supporters of Israel will be deeply disappointed in this decision, which the Israeli government should reverse.”
https://www.democrats.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/schumer-statement-on-israels-decision-to-deny-entry-to-members-of-the-united-states-congress

 

“Israel doesn’t advance its case as a tolerant democracy or unwavering US ally by barring elected members of Congress from visiting because of their political views,” said Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren. “This would be a shameful, unprecedented move. I urge Israel’s government to allow @IlhanMN and @RashidaTlaib entry.” 
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-advocates-in-us-warn-jerusalems-barring-of-omar-tlaib-will-hurt-it/
 

[dexterm]

15 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

There is nothing OK with that whether the citizen is a regular citizen or an elected government representative as in these cases. But that said, I think Israel is within their rights to deny entrance to anyone based on their rules, as is any country. Being a pro BDS activist is against their rules for entry, whether people think that is reasonable or not doesn't matter. But the issue here is that Israel was going to make any exception because these are congresswomen thus part of the U.S. government (a close ally) but then "trump" had to stick his nose in! 

Just because a country can make its own rules, don't make its rules right.

 

History is littered with other such sovereign nations (some quite recent and even current) making rules which seem vile to us now.

[Morch]

Well, here's some on-topic update (as opposed to most of the usual crapola these topics apparently mandate - genetics, pseudo-history, semantics, fake news, and all manner of off topic and toxic comments):

 

Quote

In climbdown, Israel says Tlaib can enter to visit her Palestinian family

Interior Minister Aryeh Deri on Friday said he would allow Democratic congresswoman Rashida Tlaib, whom Israel barred from visiting the country a day earlier along with her colleague Ilhan Omar, to enter Israel on humanitarian grounds.

 

The decision came hours after Tlaib submitted a letter requesting to be allowed in despite the ban, citing her elderly Palestinian grandmother in the West Bank. The Interior Ministry had said Thursday that it would consider letting Tlaib enter Israel on humanitarian grounds in order to visit her relatives in the West Bank.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-reversal-israel-allows-tlaib-to-enter-to-visit-her-palestinian-family/

 

Interesting to see if she'll comply with terms.

[BestB]

7 minutes ago, dexterm said:

If many readers and viewers were not previously aware of issues surrounding the Israeli Palestinian conflict, they are now. Nice one Donald.

 

This could have been a PR coup for Israel.."Look how open we are!"..but not anymore. More are now aware of the truth about Israeli repression.

 

Looks like Netanyahu has now made criticism of Israel illegal, and members of the US Congress which have given $billions of aid to Israel are only welcome if they agree with Netanyahu's and Trump's policies. No dissent welcome in the the only so called democracy in the Middle East. Not only can Israel restrict the freedom of movement of 4.5 million indigenous Palestinians under illegal occupation, they can prevent the entry of anyone who shows any non violent sympathy for the Palestinians too.

 

It's a slippery slope for a so called democracy if the only way it thinks it can survive is by stifling any criticism. A clear sign of weakness.

 

To the credit of AIPAC, and other Jewish leaders such as Bernie Sanders and Chuck Schumer, they have also condemned Netanyahu's move.

 

“Banning Congresswomen Omar and Tlaib from entering Israel and Palestine is a sign of enormous disrespect to these elected leaders, to the United States Congress, and to the principles of democracy,” the Vermont senator Bernie Sanders tweeted.
He added: “It is disgusting that a bigot like Trump is attacking @RashidaTlaib and @IlhanMN in this way. Opposing Netanyahu’s policies is not ‘hating the Jewish people.’
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/15/israels-decision-to-block-congresswomen-omar-and-tlaib-draws-widespread-criticism?

 

“Denying entry to members of the United States Congress is a sign of weakness, not strength. It will only hurt the U.S.-Israeli relationship and support for Israel in America. No democratic society should fear an open debate. Many strong supporters of Israel will be deeply disappointed in this decision, which the Israeli government should reverse.”
https://www.democrats.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/schumer-statement-on-israels-decision-to-deny-entry-to-members-of-the-united-states-congress

 

“Israel doesn’t advance its case as a tolerant democracy or unwavering US ally by barring elected members of Congress from visiting because of their political views,” said Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren. “This would be a shameful, unprecedented move. I urge Israel’s government to allow @IlhanMN and @RashidaTlaib entry.” 
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-advocates-in-us-warn-jerusalems-barring-of-omar-tlaib-will-hurt-it/
 

So in a nutshell Israel is despicable when it does not listen to US and Israel is just as despicable when it does?

 

Gee, I wonder what Israel can do to please you besides disappearing from this earth of course????????

[Morch]

5 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

Not the media, the NYT. Agree with your final sentence. Shame it doesn't apply to posters on this thread.

 

You can try to wiggle all you  like - the gist of what you posted is rather clear. Painting the NYT as supportive of Israel's right wing government and policies is nonsense. And no, you do not "agree" with me in any meaningful sense, but trolling.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Morch said:

Well, here's some on-topic update (as opposed to most of the usual crapola these topics apparently mandate - genetics, pseudo-history, semantics, fake news, and all manner of off topic and toxic comments):

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-reversal-israel-allows-tlaib-to-enter-to-visit-her-palestinian-family/

 

Interesting to see if she'll comply with terms.

I assume she will go. If she doesn't her press comments about wanting so badly to visit her Grandma will have been shown a lie. Of course she can and probably should milk the injustice of the larger ban while she's there.

[dexterm]

5 minutes ago, BestB said:

So in a nutshell Israel is despicable when it does not listen to US and Israel is just as despicable when it does?

 

Gee, I wonder what Israel can do to please you besides disappearing from this earth of course????????

It would please me greatly is Israel became a genuine western democracy giving equal rights to all the people under its control regardless of race or religion.

 

Not much to ask for a country that receives $billions in aid from US taxpayers. And it could start by allowing entry to 2 US Congress women who oversee how that aid is put to use. That's their job.

[Morch]

5 hours ago, Mavideol said:

another Trump's puppet....he may be for a big surprise in 2020 and may have to rethink his alliances

 

Israel elections are set to September 2019, and although Netanyahu is still the front-runner, things are less assured for him than before. Even if wins, still the prospect of legal proceedings ahead. All this is to say that come the USA Presidential Elections, there's a slim chance Netanyahu will be irrelevant.

[Morch]

5 hours ago, simple1 said:

trump's interference comes across to me as his usual red meat for his base antics

 

This, and a bit more. He's building up the "squad", or any other extreme, fringe or hyper-liberal Democrat representative as the face of the party at large. Attacking them forces mainstream Democrat leadership to close ranks and express support for such elements - thus strengthening Trump's efforts.

[BestB]

5 minutes ago, dexterm said:

It would please me greatly is Israel became a genuine western democracy giving equal rights to all the people under its control regardless of race or religion.

 

Not much to ask for a country that receives $billions in aid from US taxpayers. And it could start by allowing entry to 2 US Congress women who oversee how that aid is put to use. That's their job.

I think you can stop with that nonsense , you made your views very clear on a number of occasions what you prefer, not too sure why you decided to be subtle this time.

 

interesting how you bring up aid , so when president asks to deny entry and they do, then................... let me guess you did not think this one through ????????????

[simple1]

5 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

This, and a bit more. He's building up the "squad", or any other extreme, fringe or hyper-liberal Democrat representative as the face of the party at large. Attacking them forces mainstream Democrat leadership to close ranks and express support for such elements - thus strengthening Trump's efforts.

Yep, some media organisations have the exact same analysis.

[dexterm]

Israel's withdrawal of entry rights to US Congresswomen critical of Israel is more to do with US and Israeli elections, ..not BDS.

 

Trump: Bibi, you help me demonize these women and the Democrats to boost my re-election chances with my fan base, and in the next few weeks I will make an announcement re your promised annexation of the West Bank to boost your election chances.

 

Watch this space.

 

Ironic isn't it that one of the things Ilhan Omar was criticized for was daring to suggest that some Americans appear to show more allegiance to foreign powers than to their own country.
She was right. What on earth is Trump doing poking his nose into Israeli domestic politics?

[Morch]

5 hours ago, Sujo said:

Please show where I said any such thing. 

 

I never said they had to like it or agree with what they say.

 

5 hours ago, Sujo said:

I never said they had to agree with them. Stop misquoting me.

 

You have no idea what they were going to do or say there. To simply deny entry of an ally's congresswomen because they font like what they have said lacks open democratic principles.

 

I think more than a few countries should ban trump for the same reason re these two.

 

Oh dear, another semantics complainer. I did not "misquote" you. Your post appeared in its entirety.

 

Israelis aren't obliged to hear what these two have to say (and quite a bit of it was publicly aired already anyway). Coming to a country in order to preach one-sided, extreme and bigoted politics isn't quite the done thing when it comes to diplomacy.

 

I have a pretty good idea what their visit was about - based on both their expressed views and on their visit program. Pretending this wasn't a provocation tour is, again, disingenuous.

 

You may want to read the OP again. Their visit was originally approved, and the decision changed following WH/Trump pressure. The "lack of open democratic principles", if this applies, would be relevant to Trump intervention in the Israeli government's decision.

 

Whether you like it or not, countries aren't compelled to allow free entry to all. Often reason cited refer to political or social views. I think the UK got a pretty extensive list of USA citizens banned and barred on such grounds.

 

And it is funny you should mention banning Trump for visiting - far as I recall some of those whining about the principle of it etc. had not issues cheering the opposite view when it suited. But then, that might be expecting too much consistency from posters.

[Morch]

4 hours ago, abrahamzvi said:

This disgraceful decision has just shown what Israel under Netanyahu has become, a "democratic" fascist semi dictatorship, just like what Trump is trying to turn the US into. Unfortunately Israel has no constitution, and PM Netanyahu and his ilk are practically dismantling any democratic government agencies. I sincerely hope that the Israelis will realize that eventually they will be subject to such repressive treatment, as the Palestinians in the occupied territories, unless they use the upcoming elections, which may be the last free ones, to get rid of Netanyahu and his ilks.

 

Another poster who failed to read and comprehend the OP. The original aim was to allow the visit, seeing this as the least harmful option. This changed following WH/Trump pressure. 

 

"the upcoming elections, which may be the last free ones,..."

 

Over the top nonsense.