TM-30, TM-28 and Power of Attorney

[Memento Mori]

Last week I went to CW because we moved to a new place. I filled in both forms (TM-30 and TM-28), made the required copies and included a power of attorney filled in by the condo owner, a Thai guy. I didn't know that before, but you can buy Power of Attorney forms at every decent bookshop, like a notebook with lots of forms. 

 

Anyway, I was there at 7 am, got a queue number (140), stood in line for a while and got in at about 8 am, with queue number 35 for the B counter. The counter opened at 8.30 am and at 9 am it was my turn. At 9.05 it was all done. The OI stapled a paper in my passport and that was it. It took me 2 hours, so all the horror stories about waiting all day are not true anymore.

 

The condo owner gave me 4 or 5 Power of Attorney forms, filled in obviously without the dates. So next times, I don't need the condo owner for whatever reason anymore. I also have some copies of his Chanote and ID-card, both with his signature and of course without dates. (Side note: let a Thai person fill in the dates, because Thai people have a tendency to write some numbers a bit different than 'farang', for example the number 8).

 

The funny thing is that it was all his idea. What I learned: it takes a Thai to <deleted> with the (Thai) system. By the way: the Thai guy is a respectable physician at a well known Bangkok hospital.

 

We also have a house up-country and of course I won't go to the Immigration Office over there when we visit the place, but that's a different story.

 

 

[ricklev]

So simple!  I can't believe anyone is complaining.

 

[jackdd]

If you have a rental contract in your name you can report yourself, no need for a power of attorney

Glad that you found a solution for a problem which probably didn't even exist.

 

You said "The OI stapled a paper in my passport".

"a paper" as in "one" paper? Did they just throw the TM28 away?

Edited August 26, 2019 by jackdd

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

7 minutes ago, jackdd said:

If you have a rental contract in your name you can report yourself, no need for a power of attorney

Glad that you found a solution for a problem which probably didn't even exist.

 

 

That's right. Renters can report themselves for TM30 at BKK CW Immigration and don't need a power of attorney from their landlord to do so... But what they will typically need are signed copies of the landlord's ID (Thai ID for Thai landlords) and of the landlord's tabien banh, along with a copy of their lease/rental agreement, along with the filer's other standard things (photocopies of their passport pages and TM6 card).

 

[Memento Mori]

During my last '90 days visit' to CW I asked the highest ranking officer in sight about the procedure when moving to another place in Bangkok. She explained that I need the condo owner to fill in the TM-30 form and deliver it personally. When I explained to her that he's unable to visit CW because of his work, she told me to get a Power of Attorney. No mention about me filling in the TM-30 form myself. What she needed from me, was the TM-28 form.

 

After the TM-30 thing was implemented, it was indeed possible to fill in the TM-30 form yourself as I experienced when applying for my yearly retirement visa last April. I had the impression they were a bit flexible just after the implementation of TM-30, because most people were caught by surprise. 

 

Maybe it's still possible to do the TM-30 thing yourself, I have no idea, but it seemed wiser just to follow the exact rules especially when dealing with Thai Immigration. 

 

[Memento Mori]

The OI stapled a receipt of notification (the one at the bottom of the TM-30 form), with her name and rank, my new address, my name and the date in my passport.

 

The rest of my paperwork was laid on an alarmingly fast growing pile of paperwork next to her on her desk.

Edited August 26, 2019 by Memento Mori

[Pib]

Quote

Anyway, I was there at 7 am, got a queue number (140), stood in line for a while and got in at about 8 am, with queue number 35 for the B counter. The counter opened at 8.30 am and at 9 am it was my turn. At 9.05 it was all done. The OI stapled a paper in my passport and that was it. It took me 2 hours, so all the horror stories about waiting all day are not true anymore.

But you showed up before immigration even opened...and got a low B queue number...with that low B queue number got serviced fairly prompt.  But show-up later in the morning/day and it's a different story.

 

Last week when I was renewing my annual retirement extension of stay I got to see the Long Stay (L counter) immigration officer at around 10am.   All the basic retirement extension of stay paperwork went fast enough but without a TM30 receipt the immigration officer sent me to the B counter....even gave me the queue number which was B256 at 10am in the morning.  At that time the B counter was calling B108.  They didn't get around to calling my B256 number until 3pm.  Got the TM30 filed/receipt, went back to the Long Stay L section and finished up my retirement extension of stay. 

 

Summary: you arrived early...got a low B counter number.  But if showing up later in the morning it would have probably been a different story.

[jackdd]

15 minutes ago, Memento Mori said:

The OI stapled a receipt of notification (the one at the bottom of the TM-30 form), with her name and rank, my new address, my name and the date in my passport.

 

The rest of my paperwork was laid on an alarmingly fast growing pile of paperwork next to her on her desk.

So she didn't staple the receipt part of the TM28 form in your passport?

[Memento Mori]

2 minutes ago, jackdd said:

So she didn't staple the receipt part of the TM28 form in your passport?

You could be right. To be honest, I didn't pay attention at the time.

A minute ago I checked the receipt and it didn't tell me if it came from TM30 or TM28.  

[Memento Mori]

20 minutes ago, Pib said:

Summary: you arrived early...got a low B counter number.  But if showing up later in the morning it would have probably been a different story.

Normally I show up at CW at around 9 am, but different sources on the internet convinced me that going in early seemed like a good idea when dealing with counter B.

[Pib]

18 minutes ago, Memento Mori said:

Normally I show up at CW at around 9 am, but different sources on the internet convinced me that going in early seemed like a good idea when dealing with counter B.

That's definitely the way to do it if you can get to CW that early in the morning. 

 

I too arrived well before the 0830 opening time to get a preliminary queue number just to get into the immigration doors when they open at 0830.  Then with that preliminary queue number you get another queue number from what service you went there for....like I was there for a long stay extension...I get a L section queue number.    People arriving CW say around 8:45am and later will not see this preliminary queue line since it's cleared by the time they arrive...the preliminary queue line is just a "opening" event to provide some order to the hundreds of people waiting for the doors to open.....prevent a stampede of people all trying to get thru the doors at the same time, jumping in front of each other, etc.  Preaching to the choir I know...just mentioning this for others listening in.

 

As mentioned I was there for extension of retirement of stay....but when the long stay L section officer required me to confirm/file a TM30 and handed me a B256 queue number at 10am that turned my day at CW into an all day affair.....counting the lunch 1200-1300 lunch it took me approx 4 hours in the B section queue line.   On that day (last Wednesday) I spent more time in the B section than I did in the L seciton...the B section area was simply packed.  When I walked out  the immigration doors a few minutes before 4pm with my renewed extension of stay and TM30 receipt I swung by the B section...it was still packed and they were up to calling queue numbers around B360.

 

Edited August 26, 2019 by Pib

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, Pib said:

On that day (last Wednesday) I spent more time in the B section than I did in the L seciton...the B section area was simply packed.

 

Hey Pib... Beyond what you've posted above here earlier today, did you post any kind of broader trip report on your retirement extension trip to CW last week?

[brewsterbudgen]

During my last '90 days visit' to CW I asked the highest ranking officer in sight about the procedure when moving to another place in Bangkok. She explained that I need the condo owner to fill in the TM-30 form and deliver it personally. When I explained to her that he's unable to visit CW because of his work, she told me to get a Power of Attorney. No mention about me filling in the TM-30 form myself. What she needed from me, was the TM-28 form.
 
After the TM-30 thing was implemented, it was indeed possible to fill in the TM-30 form yourself as I experienced when applying for my yearly retirement visa last April. I had the impression they were a bit flexible just after the implementation of TM-30, because most people were caught by surprise. 
 
Maybe it's still possible to do the TM-30 thing yourself, I have no idea, but it seemed wiser just to follow the exact rules especially when dealing with Thai Immigration. 
 

It's still ok to self-file a TM30 at Chaengwattana without a Power of Attorney.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Pib]

9 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Hey Pib... Beyond what you've posted above here earlier today, did you post any kind of broader trip report on your retirement extension trip to CW last week?

No...didn't post one  this year....just made one for myself. 

 

Excluding the TM30 PITA, the retirement extension of stay part based on using the Bt800K deposit method was like previous years...easy and straightforward.  No requirement to come back in 3 months to prove I still had Bt800K in the bank.  The IO just handed me a copy of the police order saying what the requirements were....did not verbally point out anything....like previous years the IO said very little....just completed paper work, told me to sign here and there, stamped this and that, etc.   

 

If the TM30 grenade hadn't been rolled into the tent I would have been finished around 11am.   Just the durn TM30 requirement turned it into an all day affair for me....didn't get done until 4pm.

 

Now one thing I did notice....it did appear to me there were more couples filing for a marriage extension of stay than in years past.  Expect that is driven by the new rules regarding how the Bt800K for a retirement extension of stay must be maintained for X-amount of months, not going below Bt400K for X-amount of months, etc.   

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

29 minutes ago, Pib said:

If the TM30 grenade hadn't been rolled into the tent I would have been finished around 11am.   Just the durn TM30 requirement turned it into an all day affair for me....didn't get done until 4pm.

 

Kinda surprised you didn't deal with the TM30 issue prior to heading off to CW for your new extension application. Clearly, you knew what was going on with that topic.

 

Were you thinking they might not come after you, because you haven't traveled outside TH for donkeys years?  And maybe not have any recent away from home hotel stays in TH?

 

Knowing what was coming, I did my TM30 by mail earlier this year ahead of my retirement extension visit. And sure enough, when I met the officer for my extension part, she seemed like she was expecting to send me off to the TM30 counter, and that's when I showed her my TM30 receipt in hand.

 

As a result, I got out of CW just before noon with my extension and re-entry permit in hand, and would have been a lot earlier still if I hadn't had to wait for more than 1 hour for the final supervisor to sign off on my extension approval.

Edited August 26, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

18 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Kinda surprised you didn't deal with the TM30 issue prior to heading off to CW for your new extension application. Clearly, you knew what was going on with that topic.

Yes, but it was far from clear if every one was being checked to see if a TM30 was onfile.  Seemed to be hit and miss based on the posts I read.   Plus if I had previously went to CW to just file a TM30 that would have been a half day affair.  So, instead of two half day affairs....one doing the TM30 and one during the retirement extension of stay it just ended up being lumped into one day.   Water under the bridge now.

Edited August 26, 2019 by Pib

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 minutes ago, Pib said:

Yes, but it was far from clear if every one was being checked to see if a TM30 was onfile.  Seemed to be hit and miss based on the posts I read.   Plus if I had previously went to CW to just file a TM30 that would have been a half day affair.  So, instead of two half day affairs....one doing the TM30 and one during the retirement extension of stay it just ended up being lumped into one day.   Water under the bridge now.

 

Folks can do TM30s by postal mail or, I gather, via the web or Android app to BKK CW...  It shouldn't require an in-person visit.

 

FWIW, I had a broader read on how BKK CW was/is enforcing the TM30s these days, including that they're mandating them even for domestic travel inside Thailand, not just international travel...

 

So I did a preemptive postal mail filing to avoid becoming #270 on the morning's TM30 filing queue at CW.

 

[Pib]

15 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Folks can do TM30s by postal mail or, I gather, via the web or Android app to BKK CW...  It shouldn't require an in-person visit.

 

I mailed in a TM30 package on 26 June via EMS...rec'd at CW on 27 June.  Included a stamped, self address return envelope.   Never got a response before going to CW on 21 Aug to do my annual extension of stay.

 

And as you will see in TM30 registration related posts, people serviced by CW are in most cases waiting for months to receive a TM30 User ID/password.  Some lucky ones are getting it faster.  And some haven't even got the email to confirm their email address which occurs before the immigration office starts considering a registration package for approval.   My registration package has been submitted....took 6 days for the email address confirmation to arrive (that was 2 days ago)...how many more days, weeks, or months it will be before they approve or disapprove the registration request is unknown. 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2019 by Pib

[WorriedNoodle]

11 minutes ago, Pib said:

I mailed in a TM30 package on 26 June via EMS...rec'd at CW on 27 June.  Included a stamped, self address return envelope.   Never got a response before going to CW on 21 Aug to do my annual extension of stay.

In this case was the registered mail receipt and copies of TM30 documents already sent on 26-June not enough to avoid queuing up all day for another TM30 during your extension process? Why should you have to go through all that for reasons of CW TM30 incompetence?

[WorriedNoodle]

6 hours ago, Memento Mori said:

It took me 2 hours, so all the horror stories about waiting all day are not true anymore.

I disagree, besides the 2 hours at CW, it would have taken me 2 hours each way in traffic. Thats 6 hours of my life I wouldn't get back. I have never done a TM30 at CW in person and always mailed in. Now I have online so just fill that in if I ever get a new TM6 otherwise never.

[Memento Mori]

You could be right. To be honest, I didn't pay attention at the time.
A minute ago I checked the receipt and it didn't tell me if it came from TM30 or TM28.  

I just checked the differences between the receipts of notifications of TM30 and TM28 online. It seems it's a TM30 receipt I have stapled in my passport.
Question: if I don't leave the country or don't use a hotel until my next annual extension, do I still need to go through the unpleasant TM30 proces? Or is the TM30 receipt sufficient.

Sent from my BTV-DL09 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[ubonjoe]

47 minutes ago, Memento Mori said:

Or is the TM30 receipt sufficient.

There will be no need to do another one.

[Pib]

1 hour ago, WorriedNoodle said:

In this case was the registered mail receipt and copies of TM30 documents already sent on 26-June not enough to avoid queuing up all day for another TM30 during your extension process? Why should you have to go through all that for reasons of CW TM30 incompetence?

Obviously not.  I showed the receipt....they didn't care. 

[Memento Mori]

Thanks for the info!

There will be no need to do another one.

Sent from my BTV-DL09 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[MJKT2014]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

Obviously not.  I showed the receipt....they didn't care. 

So more inconsistency at IO CW!  A registered post receipt is OK for  90 day report by mail but not OK for a TM30?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

Obviously not.  I showed the receipt....they didn't care. 

 

That's a really bad show on the part of BKK CW Immigration. 

 

There are times when they seem to do everything in their power to reinforce the bad reputation their organization has among many expats... and then there also are a few times when they seem to exercise decency and common sense...

[spambot]

If you allready have a TM.30 and you have not stayed away from the address submitted on the form, but then apply for an extension of stay - Do you still need to submit a new TM.30 or does the existing TM.30 sufice?

[Pib]

17 minutes ago, spambot said:

If you allready have a TM.30 and you have not stayed away from the address submitted on the form, but then apply for an extension of stay - Do you still need to submit a new TM.30 or does the existing TM.30 sufice?

Yes...your current TM30 would suffice.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Pib

[mtls2005]

8 minutes ago, spambot said:

does the existing TM.30 sufice?

 

This one.

 

(Assuming you haven't stayed somewhere where someone has filed a TM30 on your behalf.)

 

 

And until Immigration changes the rules/enforcement, and comes up with some new requirement, like an annual/quarterly TM30 "check-up".

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2019 by mtls2005

[WorriedNoodle]

7 minutes ago, spambot said:

If you allready have a TM.30 and you have not stayed away from the address submitted on the form, but then apply for an extension of stay - Do you still need to submit a new TM.30 or does the existing TM.30 sufice?

Existing TM30 would have an expiry date on it (=end of extension date?) so after you have extended would need another TM30 with a new expiry date on it I would imagine?