Homophobia rising in European countries without gay marriage

[thaicurious]

https://www.enca.com/news/homophobia-rising-european-countries-without-gay-marriage

 

Homophobia has risen in European countries that do not legally recognise same-sex relationships, while acceptance of gay and lesbian people has jumped in states where they can marry...

 

Most European countries saw a rise in acceptance of same-sex relationships between 2002 and 2016...

 

However, Russia, Bulgaria, Lithuania, Poland and Ukraine all saw acceptance of gay and lesbian people decrease over the 14-year period.

 

"I think it is very important that we can unlearn prejudice,"...

 

Russia scored the lowest in 2016, with an average of two, and the highest scores came from Belgium, Spain, Norway, France, Sweden, the Netherlands and Iceland.

 

Spain and Portugal, where gay marriage is legal, and Cyprus, Italy and Greece, which allow same-sex civil partnerships, saw the biggest positive changes...

 

...It's a great responsibility of our politicians how they lead us, and what kind of messages they sponsor,"...

 

Gay Pride, Reykjavik, Iceland

 

Russian Pride

 

[Vacuum]

What's the big deal about getting married, 50% of them will fail sooner or later?

[Jingthing]

What's the big deal about getting married, 50% of them will fail sooner or later?

It means a society has officially recognized same sex relationships as equal. That flows to other things as well whether people marry or not. But unfortunately there are usually backlash impacts as well.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[thaicurious]

25 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

What's the big deal about getting married, 50% of them will fail sooner or later?

I get the humor of that but also I've been widowed without marriage.

[BritManToo]

42 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It means a society has officially recognized same sex relationships as equal. That flows to other things as well whether people marry or not. But unfortunately there are usually backlash impacts as well.

All countries should abolish marriage and introduce civil partnerships.

Partnerships where all agreements between the two are equal, clearly listed and legally enforceable.

Western marriage is an outdated concept where inevitably assets are forcibly transferred from a man to a woman.

 

Edited August 26, 2019 by BritManToo

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

All countries should abolish marriage and introduce civil partnerships.

Partnerships where all agreements between the two are equal, clearly listed and legally enforceable.

Western marriage is an outdated concept where inevitably assets are forcibly transferred from a man to a woman.

 

But that's never going to happen. 

I will add I come from a generation that mostly wasn't thinking about marriage equality as a part of the Gay Liberation movement. It was more like we want civil rights but that doesn't mean we have to copy heterosexuals (called heteronormative these days). Monogamy certainly wasn't much valued. From this POV the focus on marriage equality was largely strategic. Get equality on this "biggest" thing and over time discrimination on everything will eventually become illegal and socially unacceptable. It hasn't really turned out that way yet. There is a major backlash in the U.S. for example. But over time, it still might. 

Edited August 26, 2019 by Jingthing

[thaicurious]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

From this POV the focus on marriage equality was largely strategic. Get equality on this "biggest" thing and over time discrimination on everything will eventually become illegal and socially unacceptable.

Did we want to not mimic the str8ies or were we merely rationalizing what was denied us?

 

Marriage was not required for immediate survival at Stonewall. More important was the right to assemble, was removal from DSM, was alerting to & protecting against gay bashings, being allowed to serve our country in battle, electing openly gay political leaders, being portrayed in media as people, not as jokes, making sexuality legal, etc., never mind that whole AIDS thang, though the fight for marriage began early as well, forget not MaryLand first state to make it illegal in the early 70s.

 

So we neither snuck up on marriage nor are we purposing it nefariously. It was a milestone and ought to be a stepping stone leading to more rights particularly with regard to anti-discrimination.

 

But mostly it is an acknowledgment by the society valuing it of our humanity.

Edited August 26, 2019 by thaicurious
added &

[onthemoon]

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

But that's never going to happen. 

I will add I come from a generation that mostly wasn't thinking about marriage equality as a part of the Gay Liberation movement. It was more like we want civil rights but that doesn't mean we have to copy heterosexuals (called heteronormative these days). Monogamy certainly wasn't much valued. From this POV the focus on marriage equality was largely strategic. Get equality on this "biggest" thing and over time discrimination on everything will eventually become illegal and socially unacceptable. It hasn't really turned out that way yet. There is a major backlash in the U.S. for example. But over time, it still might. 

Well well well. I would have said the same at the time. But when my most recent boyfriend loudly declared "Ja!" at the district office in Germany and became my husband, it made me so happy I almost cried. Of all the men he could have - I consider him both attractive and smart and with a good attitude, but then, I love him and may be biased - he chose me for the rest of his life. We had been together for 10 years before that day, but I was so happy that he made a commitment to stay with me for the rest of his life. A dream come true.

 

That was 6 years ago. Since then, we grew together even more. 

 

Yes, marriage does something to the relationship. I am very happy that we are allowed to experience that, which used to be a privilege only for straight people.  I don't see it as copying heteronormative behaviour; this wedding was and is our thing (his and mine), very personal.

 

But I totally get that people who are not married don't get it, as you have to experience it to appreciate it. I also understand that some couples get divorced, which is no reason to be against marriage. 

[RichardColeman]

Maybe there would be less homophobia if the whole LGBT community stopped wagging their sexuality and flags in peoples faces and just got on with life.

[Jingthing]

Maybe there would be less homophobia if the whole LGBT community stopped wagging their sexuality and flags in peoples faces and just got on with life.

Do you think LGBT civil rights have advanced globally by way of being invisible?

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[thaicurious]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Do you think LGBT civil rights have advanced globally by way of being invisible?

"On the field of battle, the spoken word does not carry far enough; hence the institution of gongs and drums. Nor can ordinary objects be seen clearly enough; hence the institution of banners and flags." ~~ Sun Tzu, circa 500 BCE

 

3 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Maybe there would be less homophobia if the whole LGBT community stopped wagging their sexuality and flags in peoples faces and just got on with life.

So "getting on with life" includes your lame attempt to berate the LGBT community's efforts to bring about civil rights but getting on with life does not include people taking action to improve their lives by gaining and assuring such rights? Your view of life seems perverted.

 

Did you also tell the suffragettes to remain barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen?

 

Perhaps life is a bit larger than a small-minded concept of it.

 

 

 

we've seen str8 folk flaunt their sexuality for years

 

 

Edited August 26, 2019 by thaicurious

[Chou Anou]

10 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Maybe there would be less homophobia if the whole LGBT community stopped wagging their sexuality and flags in peoples faces and just got on with life.

Does that mean your kind would stop posting in this forum, contributing nothing to a topic you know nothing about? Also: you chose this forum to post in out of all of the various fora on ThaiVisa...which might be telling us a bit more about you than you're willing to disclose (or admit to yourself).

[onthemoon]

13 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Maybe there would be less homophobia if the whole LGBT community stopped wagging their sexuality and flags in peoples faces and just got on with life.

Thank you for this example of homophobia in the gay forum. You made my day!

 

Now, please tell all heterosexual people to stop wagging their sexuality in people's faces. Thanks.

[RichardColeman]

1 hour ago, onthemoon said:

Thank you for this example of homophobia in the gay forum. You made my day!

Funny, tell LGBT just to get on with life and your anti gay - just the kind of rhetoric that gets the LGBT community a bad name and breeds more hatred towards them. Acceptance of people does not need flags waved in faces all day. Just get on with your life - if you upset people then the problem is there's  - not yours. 

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Funny, tell LGBT just to get on with life and your anti gay - just the kind of rhetoric that gets the LGBT community a bad name and breeds more hatred towards them. Acceptance of people does not need flags waved in faces all day. Just get on with your life - if you upset people then the problem is there's  - not yours. 

Part of getting on with life for many LGBT people is dealing with homophobia within societies, religions, and perhaps most sadly often their own families. A natural response to experiencing irrational hatred is to organize and fight against that to help improve both their own lives, but also future generations. We can argue about tactics (internally and externally) but I will say without the gay activists and also allies the LGBT civil rights movement wouldn't have gotten anywhere. 

 

As far as rainbow flags in your faces all day, that is total B.S. It might happen in limited areas in some cities at annual Gay Pride events. There may be a lot of flags in gay neighborhoods in some countries. If that triggers homophobes, so be it. That's their problem. 

Edited August 27, 2019 by Jingthing

[thaicurious]

18 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Maybe there would be less homophobia if the whole LGBT community stopped

 

3 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

just the kind of rhetoric that gets the LGBT community a bad name and breeds more hatred towards them

 

Yeah, what he said. What's the matter with you people? Don't you know that...

 

Gay people cause homophobia

Women cause misogyny

Black people cause racism

Jews cause anti-Semitism

Transexuals cause transphobia

Aging causes ageism

Muslims cause Islamophobia

Immigrants cause xenophobia

etc etc etc.

 

You should all just get on with your life.

 

 

Edited August 27, 2019 by thaicurious

[Jingthing]

Yeah saying carrying on with your lives to people that have experienced societal discrimination is quite similar to things like --

 

Don't be uppity!

Know your place!

 

A popular thing with right wingers these days as they successful erode the civil rights gains that LGBT people have made is to say, be happy we don't throw you off buildings!

 

Not good enough, Not nearly. 

[thaicurious]

14 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Don't be uppity!

Know your place!

That's right. Because you're really only getting on with your life when you are being homophobic, misogynistic, racist, anti-Semitic, transphobic, ageist, Islamophobic & xenophobic.

 

14 hours ago, Jingthing said:

A popular thing with right wingers these days

Yeah, their method is to cycle through whatever series of questionable logic, nonsensical reasoning & cockamamie "theorizing" moving on to the next ridiculous thing to say each time they realize they've been found out phony. It'd be amusing if it wasn't so pathetic. Community tolerates it to a point until it becomes boring and then we just throw a banana cream pie at them.

 

2019: "there would be less homophobia if the whole LGBT community stopped wagging their sexuality and flags in peoples faces and just got on with life"

 

1977: "Because if you don't flaunt it, who's gonna know you're homosexual or not? You see. But they wanted to do was to flaunt it and to not lose their jobs because of it."

 

But this is why these institutions, marriage included, are so very important. Without state sanctioned marriage that supports heterosexual relationships & confirms their legitimacy, we are being treated as less than 100% human.

 

Why would any mother country treat its citizen children as less than human?

Edited August 28, 2019 by thaicurious