Foreign house owner and guest house manager fined for not reporting foreigners within 24 hours

[GAZZPA]

13 hours ago, KhunKenAP said:

I posted this on another TM30 article and seems appropriate to also post on this one.

 

 

"The whole TM30 needs to be scrapped!

 

It is not about being fined, not about all the additional paperwork you are faced with, or the inconvenience. It is about how it makes all foreigners automatically persons of suspicion of being criminals or undesirables and feeling unwelcome by the Thai government. 

 

I doubt if any of the purposeful overstayers, criminal wanted by Interpol, ever filed a TM30. So the Bulls..t of needing it for National Security, is just an overblown crock of s..t.

 

Even the foreign media sources, including those in China, see it for what it is. It is to make the legitimate, law-abiding Expats feel unwelcome.

 

No longer the "Land of Smiles" now the "Land of Suspicion"."

Exactly right. No serious criminal is ever going to do this. I can't see how the TM30 does anything for the countries security. I am already out of Thailand. with the constant messages of not being welcome I won't be the last.

[simon43]

I recently relocated from Thailand and back to Laos.  No reporting of my address here, no TM30, no 90 day report, no money in the bank needed to get a 1-year visa and work permit, no hassles!!  I'm 100% legal and can come and go as I please.

 

That's what happens in a communist country ????

[aqua4]

16 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

But Thais who want to live in the UK have to pay extortionate visa fees, have to pass different levels of English tests, pay a NHS surcharge, have a TB test and pass the ludicrous Life in the UK test. Expats in Thailand have it easy.

For the 12th million time  ----- That is citizenship not a bleeding visa. 

[Peterw42]

1 hour ago, GAZZPA said:

Exactly right. No serious criminal is ever going to do this. I can't see how the TM30 does anything for the countries security. I am already out of Thailand. with the constant messages of not being welcome I won't be the last.

The criminal doesn't do the TM30 report, the place they stay at does a report, Very hard for the criminal to stay or relocate if 90% of accommodation reports his whereabouts to immigration.

[Peterw42]

8 hours ago, Enki said:

A TM 30 does not cost anything ... so how could it be part of "income"?

 

It is costs to the IO as they have to do the work and get nothing. Thai tax payers pay for it, not visitors.

Immigration makes a huge income from the fines for non-compliance.

[lust]

Immigration, bunch of nerds

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, Sticky Wicket said:

It will never happen but it would be fun to coordinate a mass withdrawal of 400/800k from the banks for expats. 

 

Doubt they'd even blink. The only place farangs are important is in our minds. In a country of many millions, and mega rich companies/ individuals, a few thousand farangs staying long term are probably no more than an inconvenience to officialdom.

It has long been said that they only want us to visit short time and give over as much cash as possible. Welcome to reality.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, GAZZPA said:

Exactly right. No serious criminal is ever going to do this. I can't see how the TM30 does anything for the countries security. I am already out of Thailand. with the constant messages of not being welcome I won't be the last.

I've left LOS permanently, but the TM 30 and visa extension hassle were not even a consideration. It's good that only people that WANT to live in LOS are going to be doing so once all the dissatisfied farangs have left. Might bring the cost of "essentials" down with less competition.

[Nowisee]

12 hours ago, garyk said:

I am in Mexico now traveling around. Same sh$t here. But, so nice here... 

 

We were there in March, same thing is right.    

The playas there are much nicer than thailand and the pueblos have more charm and character. 

[Sticky Wicket]

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Doubt they'd even blink. The only place farangs are important is in our minds. In a country of many millions, and mega rich companies/ individuals, a few thousand farangs staying long term are probably no more than an inconvenience to officialdom.

It has long been said that they only want us to visit short time and give over as much cash as possible. Welcome to reality.

I think you are gravely mistaken

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Sticky Wicket said:

I think you are gravely mistaken

If officialdom wanted farangs staying long time they wouldn't make it so hard. Ergo, they don't want us.

[aqua4]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I've left LOS permanently, but the TM 30 and visa extension hassle were not even a consideration. 

You left permanently so really you dont have a dog in the fight. You dont even live here so why post here?

 

12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Doubt they'd even blink. The only place farangs are important is in our minds.

For a country that gets a huge amount of it GDP from tourism, image is everything. 

[aqua4]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If officialdom wanted farangs staying long time they wouldn't make it so hard. Ergo, they don't want us.

We know that. The question is what has happened for this to occur? 

[Sticky Wicket]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

If officialdom wanted farangs staying long time they wouldn't make it so hard. Ergo, they don't want us.

If officialdom didn't want farangs to stay long term they could ban marriages to foreigners and cancel all extensions. 

A blanket policy of 60 days per year for any foreigner would cover that.

 

 

[dimitriv]

11 hours ago, Haecksler said:

I think you never made a Shengen visa for a Thai person

 

Not for a Thai person. But I did invite others several times. They were not required to stay at my address. Reporting ?  It is not even possible.

 

 

[aqua4]

1 minute ago, Sticky Wicket said:

If officialdom didn't want farangs to stay long term they could ban marriages to foreigners and cancel all extensions. 

A blanket policy of 60 days per year for any foreigner would cover that.

 

You could be prophetic and that would not even surprise me. I think we are collateral damage for something else. My question is what

[thaibeachlovers]

12 minutes ago, aqua4 said:

You left permanently so really you dont have a dog in the fight. You dont even live here so why post here?

FYI, all are welcome to give their opinion on TVF- it's a public forum and living in LOS is not required to contribute.

Anything else to complain about?

[thaibeachlovers]

16 minutes ago, aqua4 said:

We know that. The question is what has happened for this to occur? 

To answer that one would have to be privy to the conversations in the highest levels of Thai society. I doubt any of us are.

Those of us that have been in Thailand for decades can probably guess, but it would be no more than a theory.

However, look at what is going on, and who is the biggest player in the country now.

 

[Scott]

Off-topic post reported and removed.  

 

[thaibeachlovers]

21 minutes ago, aqua4 said:

You left permanently so really you dont have a dog in the fight. You dont even live here so why post here?

 

For a country that gets a huge amount of it GDP from tourism, image is everything. 

LOL. Millions of tourists visit LOS every year and the vast majority would have no idea that there are any farangs living in LOS long time.

Thailand has been minting it off the image for a very long time and outside the temples and a few beaches it doesn't really exist. Far as farangs are concerned, the problems are exceeding the attraction and less are visiting, but as long as millions and millions of Chinese and Indians are happy to come on a once in a lifetime trip, the TAT is probably not overly concerned.

[amykat]

18 hours ago, randy723 said:

With this tm30 law, it is like a person being in prison. if you do not report when you leave your cell you are punished.

why doesn't the PM just no expat are welcome in Thailand and kick us all out.

 

Thais don’t like confrontation ....

[Mattd]

23 hours ago, Yinn said:

If thai can go to your country and must not have fill out document, then I will help you ask the thai government to do same for you. Is fair.

Khun Yinn, respectfully, you are missing the point somewhat.

Firstly, very few other countries have this requirement once you are actually in the country, those that do tend to be those who have less freedom for all, including their own citizens.

The TM. 30 requirement isn't anything to do with having to obtain a visa or similar to enter initially, it is a requirement AFTER entering the country and in some cases when a foreigner goes from one province to another for longer than 24 hours.

Remembering that EVERY entry in to Thailand is registered in to the immigration system, both electronically and by paper in the form of the TM.6, which has an address on it, a further address report is superfluous, especially if it is done manually on paper. (A trip to CW immigration might open your eyes on how much, mainly useless, paperwork is generated hourly, it really is quite unbelievable!!) 

Now it is taken for granted that of course Thai people have the right to live anywhere in Thailand, this is wholly without dispute.

However, as would be the case in EVERY other country in the world, the majority of crime committed will be by a citizen, not by a foreigner.

Using the logic of it is for 'national security' that they must enforce the TM.30 reporting on foreigners, then the same logic should be applied across the board, i.e. to Thai citizens as well, especially as the vast majority of Thai people do live and work in a different area to their birth province and a good majority of those are registered in a Tabien Bahn outside of where they now reside, so there is no record of their whereabouts.

I now ask, if this reporting were applied to you as a Thai, how would you feel, would you comply happily, would your fellow citizens be happy?

 

[Max69xl]

30 minutes ago, amykat said:

Thais don’t like confrontation ....

You're off topic. The article was about guesthouse owners/managers,and the requirements for reporting foreigners staying in their guesthouses. Not a TM30 you might have to submit. That's another thread.

[Yinn]

18 hours ago, Expat Tom said:

I am not stupid and, after many year, I know that I am not wanted in the land of plastic smiles so, in December, I'm outta here!!!

Good luck Tom.

[Max69xl]

21 minutes ago, Mattd said:

Khun Yinn, respectfully, you are missing the point somewhat.

Firstly, very few other countries have this requirement once you are actually in the country, those that do tend to be those who have less freedom for all, including their own citizens.

The TM. 30 requirement isn't anything to do with having to obtain a visa or similar to enter initially, it is a requirement AFTER entering the country and in some cases when a foreigner goes from one province to another for longer than 24 hours.

Remembering that EVERY entry in to Thailand is registered in to the immigration system, both electronically and by paper in the form of the TM.6, which has an address on it, a further address report is superfluous, especially if it is done manually on paper. (A trip to CW immigration might open your eyes on how much, mainly useless, paperwork is generated hourly, it really is quite unbelievable!!) 

Now it is taken for granted that of course Thai people have the right to live anywhere in Thailand, this is wholly without dispute.

However, as would be the case in EVERY other country in the world, the majority of crime committed will be by a citizen, not by a foreigner.

Using the logic of it is for 'national security' that they must enforce the TM.30 reporting on foreigners, then the same logic should be applied across the board, i.e. to Thai citizens as well, especially as the vast majority of Thai people do live and work in a different area to their birth province and a good majority of those are registered in a Tabien Bahn outside of where they now reside, so there is no record of their whereabouts.

I now ask, if this reporting were applied to you as a Thai, how would you feel, would you comply happily, would your fellow citizens be happy?

 

First of all, you are off topic. This thread is about the requirements for hotel/guesthouse owners when reporting a foreigner staying at their place within 24 hours. Not the TM30 you might have to submit.

Second, the address on the TM6 card has nothing to do with the TM30. It's more of an initial/first address in Thailand. You might stay one night in BKK before going to your home somewhere in Thailand or meet friends a couple of days. Then that's the address you are supposed to write on the arrival card.

[aqua4]

28 minutes ago, Yinn said:

You are wrong.

He thinks the visa is an annual visa and not the first step to citizenship. I wonder if he can tell us if his Thai wife has to do that every year like him in Thailand. Many here dont think. 

[Mattd]

1 hour ago, Max69xl said:

First of all, you are off topic. This thread is about the requirements for hotel/guesthouse owners when reporting a foreigner staying at their place within 24 hours. Not the TM30 you might have to submit.

Second, the address on the TM6 card has nothing to do with the TM30. It's more of an initial/first address in Thailand. You might stay one night in BKK before going to your home somewhere in Thailand or meet friends a couple of days. Then that's the address you are supposed to write on the arrival card.

I was replying to another poster who clearly misunderstands the requirements, both here and overseas, as it implied that Thais have the same issues overseas, visa wise, 100% a hassle for Thais, reporting addresses every movement whilst a Thai is overseas is N/A. Anyway IMO it is on topic, as per your own words, 'This thread is about the requirements for hotel/guesthouse owners when reporting a foreigner staying at their place within 24 hours.'

A Hotel or a guesthouses report is a TM.30 report, in exactly the same sense as an individual, apart form the method of reporting and they were fined for not reporting, the new individual online system is an adaptation of the system hotels etc. use and have done for years.

I agree that the TM.6 is the initial address and not all continue at that address, however, I think that several additional address reports are way OTT, especially in your example, as it would be likely to be hotel for that first night, who would (should) report you and the assumption would be that the long termer would go to their address afterwards, which will have been registered in to the system on several occasions prior.

[9653]

On 8/27/2019 at 11:36 AM, Sticky Wicket said:

He must be the first person ever to be 'thankful' for being fined. 

I payed 800 baht fine in December for not knowing about the TM 28, at Chiang Rai immigration.

My landlady got the fine ,but she had not a brass razoo to her name.

Both of us didn't know about the reporting requirement

[Just Weird]

22 hours ago, joecoolfrog said:

The figures are not insignificant !

Immigrants and tourists are recognised world wide as an important resource. This applies even more so in countries ( such as Thailand ) who offer minimal state benefits , its a win win !

Really?  So what are the figures from those who are required to submit TM30s (if you have any)?

[Yinn]

5 hours ago, Mattd said:

Khun Yinn, respectfully, you are missing the point somewhat.

My point is the simple tm30 document is more easy to do than even just go your country for a two day holiday.

 

5 hours ago, Mattd said:

However, as would be the case in EVERY other country in the world, the majority of crime committed will be by a citizen, not by a foreigner.

Yes but but the police must also get the foreign criminal.

 

5 hours ago, Mattd said:

I now ask, if this reporting were applied to you as a Thai, how would you feel, would you comply happily, would your fellow citizens be happy?

 

If you give me a free visa to go, then no problem.

We give you free visa, you do not give us free visa. We must pay, even if you say no. Scam