Foreign house owner and guest house manager fined for not reporting foreigners within 24 hours

[Grayowl]

59 minutes ago, joecoolfrog said:

You know nothing of the man , his wife or their relationship , consequently your rant is judgemental and based on stereotypes.

I know who I feel sorry for , the ignorant and bitter person you see in the mirror.

Yes you are right my words was harsh, and I not know personally the man and I could be wrong about his status and situation ,

but I use his comment as an example to what was and still in some cases rotten in the relationship between us and thai people.  I know thai culture well, and I know what many of the expat community and thai ! People think, and it is the same like me. 
 

In many cases it is not stereotype wrong thinking  it is reality,  not in every case!  .

i am fur from being racist or ignorance,  and I know Thailand well, not bitter at all , and come from a country and family that family values are most important.  
 

I have good relationship with a thai lady, I know thai culture and I fur from being cheap,  but relationship born and dye with feelings and intellectual depth,  and not only money. 
 

In Thailand if money is leading the relationship,  it is only about the money. 
 

Even if in his case,  it different,  to read his comments,  bring this understanding immediately.  

[JMSIII]

7 hours ago, Sticky Wicket said:

It will never happen but it would be fun to coordinate a mass withdrawal of 400/800k from the banks for expats. 

 

And then all take a year or two and go somewhere else, along with all westerners vacationing elsewhere as well.  Maybe then, they would have a different attitude about us when they really see how their treatment of us really has a direct effect on their personal bank accounts....

[Chaspul]

Not seen this in any other thread, I look forward to the tirade of abuse this forum seems to attract but the following is a very real scenario and I also look forward to any constructive comments. 

 

My wife (Canadian) and I (British) are joint owners of our house and have the paperwork to prove it , land lease is held by builder's Thai wife.

 

When they amend the TM 30 to show joint house holders on page one on the form, it would have more credence in our case as my wife doesn't want to appear as an alien on page two! Nor should she! Or do I!

 

I have only filled TM 30 when visitors from overseas have visited and at that time did not include my wife on page 2. Signed off by Hua Hin Immigration no problems.

Never filed on trips to Bangkok or after our last trip to Nong Khai to see the Naga fireballs on the weekend of our Kings tragic death.

Since then I must have done 2 annual extensions and about 8 or 9, 90 day reports

 

Maybe we should both fill separate TM 30s but I'm sure this would throw up a computer glitch. Should I as a house holder report her and/or she as a house holder report me?

 

TM 30 only as asks for landlords to report aliens staying in the property. My wife and I are married, are house owners, married for 19 years, lived here for more than 10 years and are not alien to each other although classified as such by Thailand.

 

Would make more sense to fill in separate TM 47s for each of us within 24 hours of returning from a trip, remove the timing of 2 weeks before, 1 week after, appended in red ink across the top saying I AM BACK IN MY OWN HOME. Can be done online or Immigration office.

 

At least that would give another 90 days. Getting rid of everyone's responsibility for TM 30 in the absence of a landlord report, stating that we/all have returned.

 

Hope the guys that started the petition read this and add it as a case study to help get rid of TM 30.

Chas

[bangkoken]

It's good to see the RTP are focused on the "real important" criminals. 

[garyk]

I wonder why all the paranoia in Thailand?

Do they think the old retired expats are going to revolt, and stage a coup to take over the government... ????

 

[Fairynuff]

38 minutes ago, JamesBlond said:

Got back from a trip two weeks ago. Houseowner sent TM30 within 24 hours by post. Heard nothing since. Two weeks of tension building up. Now waiting for the fists on the door.

And what if I had gone away and come back again in the meantime? Put another TM30 in the queue?

This is insane.

My last return from outside the country was 5th August, TM30 sent next day so now more than 3 weeks. Still waiting for username and password for app

[Fairynuff]

2 minutes ago, garyk said:

I wonder why all the paranoia in Thailand?

Do they think the old retired expats are going to revolt, and stage a coup to take over the government... ????

 

They’d probably do a better job 

[Peterw42]

9 minutes ago, Chaspul said:

Not seen this in any other thread, I look forward to the tirade of abuse this forum seems to attract but the following is a very real scenario and I also look forward to any constructive comments. 

 

My wife (Canadian) and I (British) are joint owners of our house and have the paperwork to prove it , land lease is held by builder's Thai wife.

 

When they amend the TM 30 to show joint house holders on page one on the form, it would have more credence in our case as my wife doesn't want to appear as an alien on page two! Nor should she! Or do I!

 

I have only filled TM 30 when visitors from overseas have visited and at that time did not include my wife on page 2. Signed off by Hua Hin Immigration no problems.

Never filed on trips to Bangkok or after our last trip to Nong Khai to see the Naga fireballs on the weekend of our Kings tragic death.

Since then I must have done 2 annual extensions and about 8 or 9, 90 day reports

 

Maybe we should both fill separate TM 30s but I'm sure this would throw up a computer glitch. Should I as a house holder report her and/or she as a house holder report me?

 

TM 30 only as asks for landlords to report aliens staying in the property. My wife and I are married, are house owners, married for 19 years, lived here for more than 10 years and are not alien to each other although classified as such by Thailand.

 

Would make more sense to fill in separate TM 47s for each of us within 24 hours of returning from a trip, remove the timing of 2 weeks before, 1 week after, appended in red ink across the top saying I AM BACK IN MY OWN HOME. Can be done online or Immigration office.

 

At least that would give another 90 days. Getting rid of everyone's responsibility for TM 30 in the absence of a landlord report, stating that we/all have returned.

 

Hope the guys that started the petition read this and add it as a case study to help get rid of TM 30.

Chas

You own a structure on someone else's land, thats not much different to me parking a caravan on someones land and claiming ownership. 

 

A TM30 is the owner (whos name would be on the chanote) housemaster (whos name would be in the bluebook) or the possessor (whos name would be on the lease over the property). Landlords are not mentioned on TM30 form or online.

 

Nice try playing with the semantics though.

 

[Peterphuket]

8 hours ago, KhunKenAP said:

I posted this on another TM30 article and seems appropriate to also post on this one.

 

 

"The whole TM30 needs to be scrapped!

 

It is not about being fined, not about all the additional paperwork you are faced with, or the inconvenience. It is about how it makes all foreigners automatically persons of suspicion of being criminals or undesirables and feeling unwelcome by the Thai government. 

 

I doubt if any of the purposeful overstayers, criminal wanted by Interpol, ever filed a TM30. So the Bulls..t of needing it for National Security, is just an overblown crock of s..t.

 

Even the foreign media sources, including those in China, see it for what it is. It is to make the legitimate, law-abiding Expats feel unwelcome.

 

No longer the "Land of Smiles" now the "Land of Suspicion"."

"It is about how it makes all foreigners automatically persons of suspicion of being criminals or undesirables and feeling unwelcome by the Thai government."

Did you expect anything else?

 

[Peterphuket]

Moreover, I wil never make a mention if I stayaway longer than 24 hours, let them prove that, but I want to see that again.

Redicilous legislation!

[MarkyM3]

Thai fiancee has been to the UK twice in last 2 years. Yes, the visa takes about 4 weeks to come through and costs 4000 baht or thereabouts but it's a 6 month visa with no stupid reporting restrictions. When I told her what the equivalent set-up was in Thailand for me, she didn't believe me ????. My understanding is I can't even get something near to that for Thailand for the London embassy now (METV, £125). 

 

The UK does offer visa-free entry to some countries, as does Thailand, but it isn't going to offer visa-free travel to countries where there's a higher probability of people staying on to work illegally. Thailand falls within that category, regrettably. If Thailand wished to do likewise, I wouldn't complain....I use SETVs issued in London anyways since I stay for >30 days when I'm in Thailand and do not like taking my chances with VOA.

 

As long as a partner can show evidence of a decent reason to return to Thailand when coming on holiday to the UK e.g. work, then they should get a visa without an issue in my experience. 

 

Someone earlier in this thread complained about other hoops a Thai has to jump through e.g. NHS surcharge (a whopping £200 per year), Life in the UK test. That is for someone applying for UK citizenship - an option which is far, far easier to obtain than Thai citizenship or even PR. And if you do get Thai citizenship, DBrenn's thread showed it wasn't entirely straightforward. So a pretty strange comparison imo. 

 

NHS A&E care is free to everyone btw from Day 1 (not that it should be necessary if the person has travel insurance). Is it free in Thailand....no.

 

 

[iamariva1957]

8 hours ago, Sticky Wicket said:

It will never happen but it would be fun to coordinate a mass withdrawal of 400/800k from the banks for expats. 

 

I sign up for that!

[Nowisee]

These people are bent idiots with a passion for greed and scams.  Can't get a bloody thing done here without slipping one of these clowns extra money.  It's exhausting.

 

[LivinLOS]

8 hours ago, Yinn said:

If thai can go to your country and must not have fill out document, then I will help you ask the thai government to do same for you. Is fair.

 

Absolutely.. any Thai who like most expats has a visa, arrives in my country and doesnt report to anyone anywhere.. For as long as thier visa allows. My wife for example has a 5 year multiple entry and reports to no one at any point. 

[garyk]

3 minutes ago, Nowisee said:

These people are bent idiots with a passion for greed and scams.  Can't get a bloody thing done here without slipping one of these clowns extra money.  It's exhausting.

 

I am in Mexico now traveling around. Same sh$t here. But, so nice here... 

[Hans Donnerborg]

For many Europeans, the TM30 Act bears a black shadow over it.
Soviet totalitarian mentality of the time.
Gossip about each other mentality.
DDR's stasi_mentality - shootings of citizens, bribes.
The TM30 stinks far away from such.
Fine me what you like - im not a blabbermouth. I wont turn anyone in!

[NoComment]

If they don't commit the crime they won't receive a fine.

However, I do agree with some of the negative posts. Western tourists are not visiting because of the strong baht, bad publicity and the cheaper neighbor countries.

The normal tourists are unaware of the problem because it should/is done by the law abiding hotels.

The Chinese are able to navigate around the problems because they are bringing in the money. Chinese do not seem to be drinkers, illegal gamblers, on overstay or running illegal businesses. I cannot remember the last time there was a bad headline regarding the Chinese. Can you?

Thailand is a wonderful Kingdom with kind and caring people. Unfortunately paperwork and box tickets appear to be attempting the impossible whilst ruining the tourist industry.

There will be an answer somewhere at sometime by somebody and a return to normality should follow.

 

 

[mlmcleod]

Imagine this foreign criminal ignoring the rules of immigration!!!!!  I wonder how many foreign criminals, gamblers and drug dealers skulked around Thailand while this miscreant failed to report their whereabouts.

 

He should be jailed to atone for his transgressions on the Thai people!

 

Yep, Thai Immigration police are catching the BIG fish!

[Max69xl]

9 hours ago, RLAretired said:

 

Right on target.

The article was about guesthouse owners and a manager,not about tourists/guests. Don't be so paranoid. They are supposed to report foreigners within 24 hours according to the law. So what are you complaining about? 

[Max69xl]

40 minutes ago, NoComment said:

If they don't commit the crime they won't receive a fine.

However, I do agree with some of the negative posts. Western tourists are not visiting because of the strong baht, bad publicity and the cheaper neighbor countries.

The normal tourists are unaware of the problem because it should/is done by the law abiding hotels.

The Chinese are able to navigate around the problems because they are bringing in the money. Chinese do not seem to be drinkers, illegal gamblers, on overstay or running illegal businesses. I cannot remember the last time there was a bad headline regarding the Chinese. Can you?

Thailand is a wonderful Kingdom with kind and caring people. Unfortunately paperwork and box tickets appear to be attempting the impossible whilst ruining the tourist industry.

There will be an answer somewhere at sometime by somebody and a return to normality should follow.

 

 

Do you think the Chinese tourists are big spenders? 

[Max69xl]

54 minutes ago, Hans Donnerborg said:

For many Europeans, the TM30 Act bears a black shadow over it.
Soviet totalitarian mentality of the time.
Gossip about each other mentality.
DDR's stasi_mentality - shootings of citizens, bribes.
The TM30 stinks far away from such.
Fine me what you like - im not a blabbermouth. I wont turn anyone in!

A tourist doesn't have to think about the TM30,so what are you complaining about? 

[Max69xl]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

Absolutely.. any Thai who like most expats has a visa, arrives in my country and doesnt report to anyone anywhere.. For as long as thier visa allows. My wife for example has a 5 year multiple entry and reports to no one at any point. 

If you invite a Thai person to stay with you in, let's say Europe (EU), you are the guarantee that she stays with you. So,the immigration/border police in your country knows where she is. 

[whitemouse]

3 hours ago, BobbyL said:

Is there any country, apart from perhaps North Korea, that possess such strict movements laws for foreigners that legally live and work in a country?

 

 

 

Russia is the only other country that I know of, note that Russia also monitors FB and other social media postings, just like Thailand, so be careful what you say!

 

"According to the Russian law, your visa must be registered within 7 business days upon arrival to the Russian Federation.

When you stay at a hotel, the registration is fully taken care of by the hotel reception. A nominal registration fee may be assessed.

If you stay at a private apartment, your visa is to be registered by your Russian host. The host needs to apply at the local police precinct or post office, fill out a notification form and ..

 

Please note that not registering your Russian visa may lead to serious problems: you may be stopped by police, fined, be made non-eligible to get a Russian visa in the future, etc. We strongly advise you to register your Russian visa to avoid possible consequences. It is also very important to register in time."

[Stevemercer]

9 hours ago, Yinn said:

If thai can go to your country and must not have fill out document, then I will help you ask the thai government to do same for you. Is fair.

 

98% of foreigner come to thailand don’t even know about this 30 document. Because the hotel do it for them.

 

 

I can confirm that a Thai national travelling to Australia on a tourist, study (or any visa for that matter) does not need to fill out any paperwork or otherwise report where they are staying to Immigration.

 

Once they pass through Customs at the airport they are free to go where they want and travel as much as they want with no reporting requirements.

 

Australian Immigration does its vetting when deciding whether or not to issue a visa and believes it to be a waste of everyone's time and resources, as well as being an unnecessary inconvenience for non-residents. in tracking foreigners' movements.

 

The exception is for a Thai national married to an Australian citizen and applying for permanent residency. During the two year qualifying period they are meant to report any change in their permanent address. They don't need to report temporary addresses while travelling, visiting/staying with friends etc. After 2 years, if they are still married, they will receive permanent residency and all the rights and Government benefits of an Australian resident. There is no English test or other requirement.

[Max69xl]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

Absolutely.. any Thai who like most expats has a visa, arrives in my country and doesnt report to anyone anywhere.. For as long as thier visa allows. My wife for example has a 5 year multiple entry and reports to no one at any point. 

Do you think a Thai girl who wants to travel on her own to Europe will get a Visa that easy? Normally the girls are invited by someone, and that someone are her guarantee. So the border police in that country will know where she is supposed to stay. 

[dimitriv]

16 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

If you invite a Thai person to stay with you in, let's say Europe (EU), you are the guarantee that she stays with you. So,the immigration/border police in your country knows where she is. 

 

They don't. There is no guarantee that the Thai person will stay at that address. It's also not a requirement. A visum to the EU will give you the right to travel in all EU countries, without reporting.

 

 

[dimitriv]

14 minutes ago, whitemouse said:

 

Russia is the only other country that I know of, note that Russia also monitors FB and other social media postings, just like Thailand, so be careful what you say!

 

"According to the Russian law, your visa must be registered within 7 business days upon arrival to the Russian Federation.

 

 

That is only once, upon arrival. After that you are allowed to travel anywhere without registering again. 

 

They do enforce this. If you arrive in Moscow and travel by Transsiberian express to Mongolia without registering they can stop you at the Russian/Mongolian border and send you back to Moscow to register. The fines are a joke, but the consequences can be annoying.

 

[Fairynuff]

23 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

If you invite a Thai person to stay with you in, let's say Europe (EU), you are the guarantee that she stays with you. So,the immigration/border police in your country knows where she is. 

But nobody will check and nobody has to report

[Fairynuff]

21 minutes ago, whitemouse said:

 

Russia is the only other country that I know of, note that Russia also monitors FB and other social media postings, just like Thailand, so be careful what you say!

 

"According to the Russian law, your visa must be registered within 7 business days upon arrival to the Russian Federation.

When you stay at a hotel, the registration is fully taken care of by the hotel reception. A nominal registration fee may be assessed.

If you stay at a private apartment, your visa is to be registered by your Russian host. The host needs to apply at the local police precinct or post office, fill out a notification form and ..

 

Please note that not registering your Russian visa may lead to serious problems: you may be stopped by police, fined, be made non-eligible to get a Russian visa in the future, etc. We strongly advise you to register your Russian visa to avoid possible consequences. It is also very important to register in time."

I could fill a book with reasons to not go to Russia, you just gave me one more reason.

[Fairynuff]

22 minutes ago, Stevemercer said:

 

I can confirm that a Thai national travelling to Australia on a tourist, study (or any visa for that matter) does not need to fill out any paperwork or otherwise report where they are staying to Immigration.

 

Once they pass through Customs at the airport they are free to go where they want and travel as much as they want with no reporting requirements.

 

Australian Immigration does its vetting when deciding whether or not to issue a visa and believes it to be a waste of everyone's time and resources, as well as being an unnecessary inconvenience for non-residents. in tracking foreigners' movements.

 

The exception is for a Thai national married to an Australian citizen and applying for permanent residency. During the two year qualifying period they are meant to report any change in their permanent address. They don't need to report temporary addresses while travelling, visiting/staying with friends etc. After 2 years, if they are still married, they will receive permanent residency and all the rights and Government benefits of an Australian resident. There is no English test or other requirement.

Sounds kinda normal!