'Now or never': Hong Kong protesters say they have nothing to lose

[webfact]

'Now or never': Hong Kong protesters say they have nothing to lose

By Marius Zaharia and Anne Marie Roantree

 

FILE PHOTO: Hong Kong native and Australian resident Jason Tse poses for a portrait in a tunnel adorned with protest notes, known as Lennon Wall, in Hong Kong, China August 10, 2019. REUTERS/Thomas Peter

 

HONG KONG (Reuters) - Exasperated with the government's unflinching attitude to escalating civil unrest, Jason Tse quit his job in Australia and jumped on a plane to join what he believes is a do-or-die fight for Hong Kong's future.

 

The Chinese territory is grappling with its biggest crisis since its handover to Beijing 22 years ago as many residents fret over what they see as China's tightening grip over the city and a relentless march towards mainland control.

 

The battle for Hong Kong's soul has pitted protesters against the former British colony's political masters in Beijing, with broad swathes of the Asian financial centre determined to defend the territory's freedoms at any cost.

 

Faced with a stick and no carrot - chief executive Carrie Lam reiterated on Tuesday protesters' demands were unacceptable - the pro-democracy movement has intensified despite Beijing deploying paramilitary troops near the border in recent weeks.

 

"This is a now or never moment and it is the reason why I came back," Tse, 32, said, adding that since joining the protests last month he had been a peaceful participant in rallies and an activist on the Telegram social media app.

 

"If we don't succeed now, our freedom of speech, our human rights, all will be gone. We need to persist."

 

Since the city returned to Chinese rule in 1997, critics say Beijing has reneged on a commitment to maintain Hong Kong's autonomy and freedoms under a "one country, two systems" formula.

 

Opposition to Beijing that had dwindled after 2014, when authorities faced down a pro-democracy movement that occupied streets for 79 days, has come back to haunt authorities who are now grappling with an escalating cycle of violence.

 

"We have to keep fighting. Our worst fear is the Chinese government," said a 40-year-old teacher who declined to be identified for fear of repercussions.

"For us, it's a life or death situation."

 

'IF WE BURN, YOU BURN'

What started as protests against a now-suspended extradition bill that would have allowed people to be sent to mainland China for trial in courts controlled by the Communist Party, has evolved into demands for greater democracy.

 

"We lost the revolution in 2014 very badly. This time, if not for the protesters who insist on using violence, the bill would have been passed already," said another protester, who asked to be identified as just Mike, 30, who works in media and lives with his parents.

 

He was referring to the 79 days of largely peaceful protests in 2014 that led to the jailing of activist leaders.

 

"It's proven that violence, to some degree, will be useful."

 

Nearly 900 people have been arrested in the latest protests. The prospect of lengthy jail terms seems to be deterring few activists, many of whom live in tiny apartments with their families.

 

"7K for a house like a cell and you really think we out here scared of jail," reads graffiti scrawled near one protest site. HK$7,000 ($893) is what the monthly rent for a tiny room in a shared apartment could cost.

 

The protests pose a direct challenge to Chinese leader Xi Jinping, whose government has sent a clear warning that forceful intervention to quell violent demonstrations is possible.

 

Some critics question the protesters' "now or never" rallying cry, saying a crackdown by Beijing could bring an end to the freedoms in Hong Kong that people on the mainland can only dream of.

 

The campaign reflects concerns over Hong Kong's future at a time when protesters, many of whom were toddlers when Britain handed Hong Kong back to Beijing, feel they have been denied any political outlet and have no choice but to push for universal suffrage.

 

"You either stand up and pull this government down or you stay at the mercy of their hands. You have no choice," said Cheng, 28, who works in the hospitality industry.

"Imagine if this fails. You can only imagine the dictatorship of the Communists will become even greater ... If we burn, you burn with us," he said, referring to authorities in Beijing.

"The clock is ticking," Cheng added, referring to 2047 when a 50-year agreement enshrining Hong Kong's separate governing system will lapse.

 

'NOT CHINA'

As Beijing seeks to integrate Hong Kong closer to the mainland China, many residents are recoiling.

 

A poll in June by the University of Hong Kong found that 53% of 1,015 respondents identified as Hong Kongers, while 11% identified as Chinese, a record low since 1997.

 

With the prospect of owning a home in one of the world's most expensive cities a dream, many disaffected youth say they have little to look forward to as Beijing's grip tightens.

 

"We really have got nothing to lose," said Scarlett, 23, a translator.

 

As the crisis simmers, China's People's Liberation Army has released footage of troops conducting anti-riot exercises.

 

But graffiti scrawled across the city signals the protesters' defiance.

 

"Hong Kong is not China" and "If you want peace, prepare for war" are some of the messages.

 

Tse said he believes violence is necessary because the government rarely listens to peaceful protests.

 

"Tactically I think we should have a higher level of violence," he said. "I actually told my wife that if we'll ever need to form an army on the protester side I will join."

 

(Additional reporting by Tom Westbrook; Editing by Robert Birsel)

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-08-28

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[olfu]

...now or never?--kinda ambitious?

[ezzra]

Oh no, they will have a lot to loose should China decide to stop being the the nice guy and send the troops over there, nothing compare to a communist regime when it comes to put down an prising...

[Matzzon]

19 minutes ago, webfact said:

a do-or-die fight for Hong Kong's future

I would estimate that he has a greater chance of live or die.

[BobBKK]

I think China has been very restrained 

[Tug]

Sadly I feel it’s gonna be die they have no one to stand up for them

[BobBKK]

Just now, Tug said:

Sadly I feel it’s gonna be die they have no one to stand up for them

I wish Thais had half their courage

[PatOngo]

11 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

I wish Thais had half their courage

As long as they have rice for lunch, everything is OK!

[Orton Rd]

The CCP have been engaged in an enormous propaganda campaign to demonize the protests, much of it crude as in blaming western powers. Over 200 YT channels have been shut down and far more twitter accounts, obviously aimed at HK and foreign observers as both are banned in China. I can't watch CGTN chanel without laughing it's so crude interviewing a handful of 'Police supporter's' and taxi drivers feeling the pinch, without ever looking at the causes or the protesters demands. The Chinese are not responsible for the ongoing oppression of minorities and wanting to take control of HK before 2047. The mafia like CCP are the villains. At the moment they seem split on the use of military violence to end the protests, 1.7 million people are a harder nut to crack than butchering a few hundred in Tianamman Square.

 

Steve Bannon knows what he's talking about

 

 

Edited August 28, 2019 by Orton Rd

[Orton Rd]

52 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

I think China has been very restrained 

Estimates are the CCP, mainly under Mao have been responsible for up to 60 million deaths of Chinese people. He was the biggest mass killer in history.

[TKDfella]

8 hours ago, BobBKK said:

I think China has been very restrained 

No it isn't restraint...they know the world is looking and any show of force would damage much of what China has built. And the second point is they also know that the protesters have no real armoury and feel that protests will fizzle out, for one reason or another, as time goes on. However, what would be a greater challenge to their waiting game is if the protesters maintain a hold on a 'key' government office.

[tonbridgebrit]

1 hour ago, TKDfella said:

No it isn't restraint...they know the world is looking and any show of force would damage much of what China has built. And the second point is they also know that the protesters have no real armoury and feel that protests will fizzle out, for one reason or another, as time goes on. However, what would be a greater challenge to their waiting game is if the protesters maintain a hold on a 'key' government office.

Well, there is no way that Beijing is going to take the bait by sending in Chinese soldiers to remove the demonstraters. Yes, the international media will condemn Beijing for this.

The protests will fizzle out ? Yes, I think so. The demonstraters can carry on their actions, and these actions are disrupting and harming Hong Kong's economy. Beijing is never going to give the demonstraters what they want, the demonstrations can go on for another few months, but all that is doing is harming Hong Kong's economy even more.

Okay, you wrote about, if the demonstraters maintain a hold on a 'key' government office.   ????
Can you please explain exactly what you mean ?

[tonbridgebrit]

To the poster Orton Rd, can you please NOT put up stuff from Steve Bannon ?

Bannon is evil, and has done a lot of harm to America and Britain. The stuff than Bannon put onto the media, he massively increased the chance that Trump had of becoming President. And his stuff managed to convince a fair number of people in Britain to vote for Brexit. Some of Bannon's views are disgusting and absurd.

[Morch]

4 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Well, there is no way that Beijing is going to take the bait by sending in Chinese soldiers to remove the demonstraters. Yes, the international media will condemn Beijing for this.

The protests will fizzle out ? Yes, I think so. The demonstraters can carry on their actions, and these actions are disrupting and harming Hong Kong's economy. Beijing is never going to give the demonstraters what they want, the demonstrations can go on for another few months, but all that is doing is harming Hong Kong's economy even more.

Okay, you wrote about, if the demonstraters maintain a hold on a 'key' government office.   ????
Can you please explain exactly what you mean ?

 

No way, now. Maybe. If circumstances change, who knows. What I am sure of, is that if China decided to send Chinese soldiers in, you'll be here to explain how that's the best decision ever. Or that it's the USA's fault. Or something.

 

As for your "analysis", I think you're mistaken on at least one count: China is not in the habit of letting civil unrest and protests go on unchecked. Not all that good for stability, might give others misguided notions about carrying out such stuff in the mainland. 

[ylmiri]

There is a Chinese book on sale in bookstore called, "There are naive people called Hong Kong" .The book is in Chinese though. The title of the book if you can read chinese is quite interesting because in Chinese language it says there naive people called Hong Kong but it doesn't mean Hong Kong people are naive at the same time it implies Hong Kong people are naive.

China is not a democratic country. It's the biggest police state in the world. What does Hong Kong think China is? All governments in this world are power crazy and paranoid.

There were quite a few murder cases in China executed but later found they had made mistake, the executed murderers were innocent.

Since ancient time Chinese governments were known for their despotic behavior. They love to execute you.

 

Edited August 28, 2019 by ylmiri
add words

[Morch]

4 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

To the poster Orton Rd, can you please NOT put up stuff from Steve Bannon ?

Bannon is evil, and has done a lot of harm to America and Britain. The stuff than Bannon put onto the media, he massively increased the chance that Trump had of becoming President. And his stuff managed to convince a fair number of people in Britain to vote for Brexit. Some of Bannon's views are disgusting and absurd.

 

Hardly a Bannon fan, but the above coming from a poster cheer-leading the Chinese regime is disingenuous, at best.

[Banana7]

Xi certainly knows how to destroy prosperity and democracy, as is being demonstrated in Hong Kong. Xi will slowly squeeze all hope of freedom from Hong Kong, and most of Southeast Asia.

 

Thailand is also on Beijing's list to become a pawn of Beijing, sub-servant to all mighty China.

Edited August 28, 2019 by Banana7

[WeekendRaider]

the new system is they need to join the so-called "communist" party.  yet none of the coverage or comments quoted even mentions what the long term stumbling blocks are to that if you are in Hong Kong.  Hong Kong lacks any of the organizations or other structures that allow or encourage local folks to join the system... and that is what they mean by 'democracy'?

 

some of them seem to want a fake two party system like the USA where a Donald Trump is a once in 200 year accidental national leader.  a genuine political party that works versus a dysfunctional US system that so far has only come up with a better border wall for Climate refugees over the next decade or so plus a US Space Force for solar radiation management.  China has a high speed rail network in place already and no need to talk about the impending crisis as a "recession next year" after having July 2019 come in as the hottest month in human history yet it was barely above neutral as to the ENSO for all of 2019.

 

China doesn't have to talk so much nonsense in their social media and "news" programs, unlike the west.  why are not more Hong Kong folks tuned in to that?

[DEKEM]

15 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

Estimates are the CCP, mainly under Mao have been responsible for up to 60 million deaths of Chinese people. He was the biggest mass killer in history.

if you want to access a website that talks about the biggest murdering regimes in the 20th century, do a google search on the following "20th century democide hawaii edu".  I would rather give you the actual link.  but thaivisa does not allow it.

 

basically, in the 20th century between mao and stalin, over 100+ MILLION people were killed in the failed pursuit of communism.

[timendres]

1 hour ago, WeekendRaider said:

the new system is they need to join the so-called "communist" party.  yet none of the coverage or comments quoted even mentions what the long term stumbling blocks are to that if you are in Hong Kong.  Hong Kong lacks any of the organizations or other structures that allow or encourage local folks to join the system... and that is what they mean by 'democracy'?

 

some of them seem to want a fake two party system like the USA where a Donald Trump is a once in 200 year accidental national leader.  a genuine political party that works versus a dysfunctional US system that so far has only come up with a better border wall for Climate refugees over the next decade or so plus a US Space Force for solar radiation management.  China has a high speed rail network in place already and no need to talk about the impending crisis as a "recession next year" after having July 2019 come in as the hottest month in human history yet it was barely above neutral as to the ENSO for all of 2019.

 

China doesn't have to talk so much nonsense in their social media and "news" programs, unlike the west.  why are not more Hong Kong folks tuned in to that?

Indeed, Chinese communist party propaganda promoted in schools ridicules the "two party" system of the USA as being inefficient, destructive, and bad for society. The propaganda states that the one-party communist system creates political and social harmony.

 

But it is a red herring to talk about the "fake two party system". The difference in the US is that there is a real vote, and, if desired, the leadership can be changed. Trump (love him or hate him) is proof of that. I would argue that Obama was also evidence that the vote in the US can elect leaders who were previously thought unelectable.

 

This is simply not true in China.

 

So, feel free to move to China and ride around on their high speed rail network. That is, if you are not demoted by their "social credit" system, and prevented from buying tickets.

[timendres]

6 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Bannon is evil, and has done a lot of harm to America and Britain. The stuff than Bannon put onto the media, he massively increased the chance that Trump had of becoming President. And his stuff managed to convince a fair number of people in Britain to vote for Brexit. Some of Bannon's views are disgusting and absurd.

So, Bannon is evil because he may have influenced events that you believe harmed the US and Britain. Despite those events being the result of people voting for what they wanted. Thus, his views are disgusting and absurd. I think there might be a position waiting for you with the CCP.

Edited August 28, 2019 by timendres

[DEKEM]

1 hour ago, WeekendRaider said:

the new system is they need to join the so-called "communist" party.  yet none of the coverage or comments quoted even mentions what the long term stumbling blocks are to that if you are in Hong Kong.  Hong Kong lacks any of the organizations or other structures that allow or encourage local folks to join the system... and that is what they mean by 'democracy'?

 

some of them seem to want a fake two party system like the USA where a Donald Trump is a once in 200 year accidental national leader.  a genuine political party that works versus a dysfunctional US system that so far has only come up with a better border wall for Climate refugees over the next decade or so plus a US Space Force for solar radiation management.  China has a high speed rail network in place already and no need to talk about the impending crisis as a "recession next year" after having July 2019 come in as the hottest month in human history yet it was barely above neutral as to the ENSO for all of 2019.

 

China doesn't have to talk so much nonsense in their social media and "news" programs, unlike the west.  why are not more Hong Kong folks tuned in to that?

in the last century, most of the most important inventions that ever came out of mankind originated in the USA.  I would argue the reason this is because in the USA we have freedom of speech.  I know china is wondering why they have essentially 100s of millions more physicists and engineers then are in the USA but no major inventions to think of in the last century.  the reason why is no freedom of speech.

 

the ONLY reason why china is so wealthy now is because they stole IT from the usa.  through the forced tech transfers.  they did this.  and by golly, like president trump is saying..  quote, this has to stop.  if need be, we will stop trade with china.  PERIOD.

 

china will revert back to the way they were 1949-1979.  backward and isolated.  good riddance.

 

to all you mainland chinese, to prove me wrong.  come up with MAJOR invention like the airplane, the telephone, the light bulb, the internet, the microchip, the micro computer, computer languages, the atom bomb, etc...  look it up.  all from the USA.

 

in the last century, mainland china doesn't have even ONE major invention to be proud of.  NOT ONE.  and frankly, I don't think they are even capable of it.  all they can do is STEAL.  at best finetune on something that somebody else has already invented.

 

1.5+ BILLION people.  MILLIONS of professors and engineers.  and NOT ONE major invention.  nuff said.

[Jack Mountain]

As if China is responsible that HK is so expensive ... Dumb cookie.

[Jack Mountain]

19 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

Estimates are the CCP, mainly under Mao have been responsible for up to 60 million deaths of Chinese people. He was the biggest mass killer in history.

The Gods not counted you mean?

[sunnyboy2018]

19 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

Estimates are the CCP, mainly under Mao have been responsible for up to 60 million deaths of Chinese people. He was the biggest mass killer in history.

Yep. Mao and Stalin make the Nazis look mild mannered. 

[Srikcir]

23 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

Steve Bannon knows what he's talking about

Not in the case of Hong Kong.

Did Bannon forget the CCP did not collapse from the Tiananmen Square incident?

No nation will come to assist Hong Kong people if they rebel. As they die under CCP guns, the West will meekly send their condemnation. POTUS Trump will send his thoughts and prayers caveated with "both sides are at fault," while admiring Xi's use of the CCP military for political purposes.

[TKDfella]

14 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Well, there is no way that Beijing is going to take the bait by sending in Chinese soldiers to remove the demonstraters. Yes, the international media will condemn Beijing for this.

The protests will fizzle out ? Yes, I think so. The demonstraters can carry on their actions, and these actions are disrupting and harming Hong Kong's economy. Beijing is never going to give the demonstraters what they want, the demonstrations can go on for another few months, but all that is doing is harming Hong Kong's economy even more.

Okay, you wrote about, if the demonstraters maintain a hold on a 'key' government office.   ????
Can you please explain exactly what you mean ?

Perhaps I was a little misleading there and I apologise. What I meant was that if the protesters should storm and/or stop a government facility from working. I think in such a situation the government would probably resort to force but the protesters probably realise this and therefore wouldn't take such provocative action. But then again, it depends on the determination on both sides. If the press reports are accurate then the Hong Kong office won't yield to the protesters and the protesters are likewise in their cause. 'Irresistible force meets immovable object'?

[Jack Mountain]

Waiting for a false flag happening .... 

[DrTuner]

I wish them luck. Democracy is worth fighting for and communism must be eradicated off the face of earth. 

[DrTuner]

11 hours ago, DEKEM said:

the ONLY reason why china is so wealthy now is because they stole IT from the usa.  through the forced tech transfers.  they did this.  and by golly, like president trump is saying..  quote, this has to stop.  if need be, we will stop trade with china.  PERIOD.

They did that, but it's not the only reason. Another reason is the western consumer willing to buy cheap <deleted> produced by slave like labor in China, as well as western manufacturers buying their components from China. China has been able to sell cheap because they don't care one iota about abusing their uneducated masses.

 

The only way to fix it is to bring it all back to west, automate with robots if you have to. I for one am willing to pay higher prices for a quarantee not a single cent goes to the commies.