Collapse us if you can, government dares Brexit opponents

[SheungWan]

They hate the toffs and they hate the proles. So where do the Remainers place themselves? Above everybody else is the probable answer. They are the chattering classes and new labour - the scourge of the twenty first century.
Out voted by the masses and now out smarted by Boris!!

That assumes Boris is home and dry.

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[SheungWan]

a lot of them look like foreigners 
 
People who voted to leave don't feel the need to go to the streets (as yet)
 
what I can't figure out is why they think they have a right to protest - we voted to leave the EU - after 3 years they still don't get it
 
we are not suddenly going to stop trading with the EU countries - we will continue unless they stupidly try to hurt us which quite frankly will not happen
 
we respectfully decided by a majority if 1.4 million people that we didn't like the direction the EU is taking - respect it

Maybe the end of next week.

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[SheungWan]

what are you going on about ??????
 
we are not going to stop trading or being friends with our EU neighbours - we love them all, we are just not going to be ruled from Brussels - don't you get it
 
I thought it was obvious

Sterling not impressed by that bluster.

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[SheungWan]

and whose pocket is corbyn in?

By the end of next week we might find out.

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[vogie]

47 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Unfortunately the Hard Brexiteer sales pitch was exactly that of returning to the past. Going backwards however proving less popular now.

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Less popular with whom?

[Nigel Garvie]

11 hours ago, vogie said:

You don't know what Boris will get, unless it's your go with Spideys cristal ball.

 

No it is not metaphorical, Corbyn, McDonnell and Momentum would be happy to shut the country down, nothing new there then for the Labour party. The Telegraph reported it, but I don't have access to it, but here's enough to get the gist.

 

Jeremy Corbyn has endorsed a plot by his hard-left supporters to “shut down the streets” by whipping up the biggest act of civil disobedience in decades to protest at Boris Johnson’s Brexit plans.

The Labour leader urged his MPs to join protesters planning to “occupy bridges and blockade roads” in 10 major cities in what some activists have already likened to the 1990 Poll Tax riots. 

The demonstrations have been organised by Momentum, the campaign group formed to propel Mr Corbyn to the leadership of the Labour Party.

The Torygraph are capable of exaggeration, but this may well have some truth in it. 

IMO it is a silly and pointless thing to do, it will achieve nothing.  So often the far left are putting their anger (Perfectly justified when directed at Austerity etc) before their common sense, and playing into the hands of the far right. Michael Foot was a gift to Thatcher, Corbyn is trying to follow one of his heroes.

However in the real world it seriously doubt it will happen, the Labour party overall is wiser than that.

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Nigel Garvie said:

The Torygraph are capable of exaggeration, but this may well have some truth in it. 

IMO it is a silly and pointless thing to do, it will achieve nothing.  So often the far left are putting their anger (Perfectly justified when directed at Austerity etc) before their common sense, and playing into the hands of the far right. Michael Foot was a gift to Thatcher, Corbyn is trying to follow one of his heroes.

However in the real world it seriously doubt it will happen, the Labour party overall is wiser than that.

Just to make it clear, I don't have any beef with the Labour party, all my family voted Labour all their lives, I have voted Labour, but when I look at Corbyns cabinet they all share one brain and unfortunately Keir Starmer won't let anyone else have a go.

[Nigel Garvie]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Just to make it clear, I don't have any beef with the Labour party, all my family voted Labour all their lives, I have voted Labour, but when I look at Corbyns cabinet they all share one brain and unfortunately Keir Starmer won't let anyone else have a go.

Agreed, I also voted Labour and fought for the LP (in the 80s against the evil witch, and left when Blair invaded Iraq). In Scotland we have an alternative, the SNP are basically decent, socially concerned, and competent, wherever anyone stands on independence. 

 

Emily Thornbury is not stupid at all, Mcdonnell has his rational moments, and is no fool. There are surely a few others, though I'm no expert on the shadow cabinet I admit. Starmer does indeed stand out. 

[SheungWan]

Less popular with whom?

Everybody except the nationalist nuts and the Tory Loon wing.

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[SheungWan]

Just to make it clear, I don't have any beef with the Labour party, all my family voted Labour all their lives, I have voted Labour, but when I look at Corbyns cabinet they all share one brain and unfortunately Keir Starmer won't let anyone else have a go.

I wish the Hard Brexiteers had one to share.

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[vogie]

6 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Everybody except the nationalist nuts and the Tory Loon wing.

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Well you'd be wrong, if Boris cannot get the EU to agree to change the withdrawal agreement most citizens would be happy to leave with a no deal.

[vogie]

8 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

I wish the Hard Brexiteers had one to share.

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Bait post!

[RuamRudy]

Interesting if true...

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[SheungWan]

Well you'd be wrong, if Boris cannot get the EU to agree to change the withdrawal agreement most citizens would be happy to leave with a no deal.

Joke in bad taste.

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[7by7]

On 8/30/2019 at 3:00 AM, Aforek said:

On 8/29/2019 at 3:29 PM, RickBradford said:

You don't know the mathematics or the logic.

 

Since 'No Deal Brexit' wasn't on the referendum paper, how could anyone have voted for it? ????

Because three years ago, nobody thought Brexit could be such a mess and a disturbance for us non British , so they didn't speak of " no deal "

 Various Remain politicians did speak of a No Deal Brexit and the perils thereof prior to the referendum.

 

This was dismissed as 'Project Fear' by Cummings and his political puppets in Leave.EU. Everyone on the Leave side studiously avoided the possibility of a No Deal Brexit and the potential disaster that would mean.

 

Despite later claims to the contrary by Raab that he and Gove made such warnings: We can’t find evidence that Dominic Raab warned of no-deal Brexit

Quote

FactCheck has searched the Vote Leave website, Mr Raab’s personal site, various BBC web pages, online newspaper archives, YouTube and elsewhere.

We’ve listened to as many clips as we can find of interviews given by Mr Raab and Mr Gove between February 2016, when the EU referendum campaign unofficially began, and the vote on 23 June 2016.

We can’t find an interview where Mr Raab warned explicitly about the possibility of a no-deal Brexit during the referendum campaign.

 

 

[7by7]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

Well you'd be wrong, if Boris cannot get the EU to agree to change the withdrawal agreement most citizens would be happy to leave with a no deal.

 Your evidence for that claim being?

 

If there was a referendum tomorrow with the option of leaving the EU without a deal or remaining in the EU, which would you support? suggests the opposite!

 

Of course, that is just data collated from various opinion polls. The only poll which counts would be a final, legally binding referendum. But we all know why you and your fellow Brexiteers don't want that!

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Your evidence for that claim being?

 

If there was a referendum tomorrow with the option of leaving the EU without a deal or remaining in the EU, which would you support? suggests the opposite!

 

Of course, that is just data collated from various opinion polls. The only poll which counts would be a final, legally binding referendum. But we all know why you and your fellow Brexiteers don't want that!

I never mentioned "if there was a referendum tomorrow" those are your words. My words were if Boris cannot get the EU to change/revise the withdrawal agreement, I know it may be a subtle difference, but a difference it is.

[7by7]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

I never mentioned "if there was a referendum tomorrow" those are your words. My words were if Boris cannot get the EU to change/revise the withdrawal agreement, I know it may be a subtle difference, but a difference it is.

You claimed that "if Boris cannot get the EU to agree to change the withdrawal agreement most citizens would be happy to leave with a no deal."

 

You have provided a collation of 3 polls to prove you are correct, whereas I have provided a collation of 11 polls which show otherwise.

 

Which rather tips the balance towards your original statement being at best unproven!

 

But, as I said, the only poll which would count is a binding referendum in which we, the people, are given the final choice:

• leave with a deal,
• leave with no deal,
• remain.

I have previously gone to great lengths to explain how to make it fair and not split the 'leave' votes; but will do so again if you wish.

 

 

[vogie]

Just now, 7by7 said:

You claimed that "if Boris cannot get the EU to agree to change the withdrawal agreement most citizens would be happy to leave with a no deal."

 

You have provided a collation of 3 polls to prove you are correct, whereas I have provided a collation of 11 polls which show otherwise.

 

Which rather tips the balance towards your original statement being at best unproven!

 

But, as I said, the only poll which would count is a binding referendum in which we, the people, are given the final choice:

• leave with a deal,
• leave with no deal,
• remain.

I have previously gone to great lengths to explain how to make it fair and not split the 'leave' votes; but will do so again if you wish.

 

 

Well done, good night.

[tebee]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

Interesting if true...

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Surely this would be self-defeating? Deselect existing MPs and they no longer have a majority ?

[Forethat]

1 minute ago, Victornoir said:

The EU will not change.

Most 27 Europeans do not want a last-minute dummy deal.

As has been said many times, the EU has no advantage in favoring an outgoing country or retaining a hostile nation.

Johnson will have to accept the agreement of May hardly reformulated. I do not believe a second has a brutal departure on November 1, even if like you, I wish.

Well, I guess we are going to find out. I don't want to speculate, but my perception of the proposed withdrawal agreement is that EU gambled on UK not having the balls to call their hand. Now that Boris has, we will see exactly how far the EU are prepared to stretch in order to minimise damage. 

 

In what way are the UK a "hostile nation"...? Pure poppycock, if you ask me.

[vogie]

22 minutes ago, Victornoir said:

The EU will not change.

Most 27 Europeans do not want a last-minute dummy deal.

As has been said many times, the EU has no advantage in favoring an outgoing country or retaining a hostile nation.

Johnson will have to accept the agreement of May hardly reformulated. I do not believe a second has a brutal departure on November 1, even if like you, I wish.

The whole point of my post was to show that if the EU won't budge on the withdrawal agreement then the British citizens would be more than happy to walk away with no-deal.

Edited August 31, 2019 by vogie

[Basil B]

14 minutes ago, vogie said:

I never mentioned "if there was a referendum tomorrow" those are your words. My words were if Boris cannot get the EU to change/revise the withdrawal agreement, I know it may be a subtle difference, but a difference it is.

We can all find opinion poles to support our views...

 

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-there-was-a-referendum-tomorrow-with-the-option-of-accepting-the-governments-brexit-agreement-or-leaving-the-eu-without-a-deal-which-would-you-support-2-3/#

 

And I have no problem in providing a link to prove it's authenticity, also I have no problem in having another referendum if need be now the facts are clear. 

 

 

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, Basil B said:

We can all find opinion poles to support our views...

 

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-there-was-a-referendum-tomorrow-with-the-option-of-accepting-the-governments-brexit-agreement-or-leaving-the-eu-without-a-deal-which-would-you-support-2-3/#

 

And I have no problem in providing a link to prove it's authenticity, also I have no problem in having another referendum if need be now the facts are clear. 

 

 

Your poll is asking a totally different question.

[Basil B]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Interesting if true...

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Boris the dictator.

 

Could see loads of Tories forming a a new Conservative Party, very difficult to deselect a popular MP and then win a seat they are defending. they could win or split the vote allowing a third party to win...

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, Basil B said:

Boris the dictator.

 

Could see loads of Tories forming a a new Conservative Party, very difficult to deselect a popular MP and then win a seat they are defending. they could win or split the vote allowing a third party to win...

Yeah, they'll be queuing up in the streets to vote for the likes of Grieve, Letwing, Boles, Soubry and Ken (I'll support J Corbyn) Clarke. ????????????

[Loiner]

53 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

Of course, that is just data collated from various opinion polls. The only poll which counts would be a final, legally binding referendum. But we all know why you and your fellow Brexiteers don't want that!

Opinion polls mean nothing. They are invariably paid for and made by sources with an agenda to push. 

We have already had the referendum. Another one is not necessary. We all know why Brexiteers don't want another one is because we don't need one and don't need to pander to the wails of the Remainers.

Remainers only want one because it would be their last chance to lie, cheat and fiddle the result to something they didn't manage to achieve last time. Over the past three years, they've put so much unsuccessful effort into ignoring the last result that there's no end to the lengths and dirty tricks they would go to given another referendum opportunity.  

Regardless, the govt won't risk it again anyway.

[7by7]

23 minutes ago, vogie said:

The whole point of my post was to show that if the EU won't budge on the withdrawal agreement then the British citizens would be more than happy to walk away with no-deal.

 And the whole point of my post was to show that your assumption has little evidence to back it up!

 

Most polls show the opposite, in fact!

[Basil B]

Just now, vogie said:

Yeah, they'll be queuing up in the streets to vote for the likes of Grieve, Letwing, Boles, Soubry and Ken (I'll support J Corbyn) Clarke. ????????????

As much as I hate to see Corbyn in No 10 clearly he will not do as much damage to this country than the currant incumbent.

 

What Boris is doing is scuttling the only sizeable Opposition to the Labour Party.

[lungbing]

7 minutes ago, vogie said:

Yeah, they'll be queuing up in the streets to vote for the likes of Grieve, Letwing, Boles, Soubry and Ken (I'll support J Corbyn) Clarke. ????????????

Two of them are my current MP, Soubry, and my previous one, Clarke.  Both belong in the Lib Dems but wouldn't be elected then so they pretend to be Conservative.