Brexit: PM Johnson faces mounting legal, political, diplomatic challenges

[beautifulthailand99]

2 minutes ago, david555 said:

It is becoming a legal & word matter and psychological politic warfare on U.K. politicians side , with now putting E.U. to interpretations …..same as Merkel meant ,"... so Boris you have a solution ? "...ok show it in 30 days " as a kind of ridiculing " cards on the table f you claim having a full street poker hand 

Exactly BJ has said Parliament has plenty of time to debate the issue - so an extension already by default agreed by the EU will be a piece of wee-wee procedurally compared to all the other stalling routes that were being discussed. We will not be leaving on 31st and then a GE. 

[david555]

1 minute ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Exactly BJ has said Parliament has plenty of time to debate the issue - so an extension already by default agreed by the EU will be a piece of wee-wee procedurally compared to all the other stalling routes that were being discussed. We will not be leaving on 31st and then a GE. 

As long the Extension  request is made officially by U.K    Eg. Boris ? J.C. or anybody else who has the U.K. representing power 

Edited August 31, 2019 by david555

[Mavideol]

15 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

As everything can change then EU says here's a freebie - Bercow puts it to the commons - vote agrees job done. We can't leave until Parliament agrees. Remember Parliament took control of the process by law and still has it. This is an amendment not a new law a much easier thing to win than all the other options that were on the table. Looks like with Bercow and a commons majority it is in the bag ....for an extension. It would then be unlawful and impossible for Johnson to leave on the 31st. 

 

And this is how it is done - plenty of Tory rebels can get behind this as will the rest of the opposition.  

 

https://www.parliament.uk/business/news/2019/march/house-of-commons-to-vote-on-article-50-extension/

.....and get ready for the bashing and blaming games to start, they can't accept that what BJ did is undemocratic 555

[beautifulthailand99]

12 minutes ago, david555 said:

As long the Extension  request is made officially by U.K    Eg. Boris ? J.C. or anybody else who has the U.K. representing power 

which is now officially Parliament not the PM. The Speaker's Office will know what to do - "it is the will of Parliament to accede to the request to extend Article 50 to _______"   scribe it onto to some leather parchment with some parliamentary seal job done and get it hand delivered by a bloke in 17th century garb direct to Brussels. Job Done and I win my bet. 

Edited August 31, 2019 by beautifulthailand99

[ThaiBunny]

1 minute ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

which is now officially Parliament not the PM. 

How so? Parliament has now become the executive as well as the legislative?

[david555]

5 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

which is now officially Parliament not the PM. 

Please don't let ME break my head on that" United (??) Kingdom enigma who is in charge ….5555 lol

As even now latest I found that U.K. has not a real written constitution  5555

Edited August 31, 2019 by david555

[beautifulthailand99]

5 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

How so? Parliament has now become the executive as well as the legislative?

The EU will be in talks with rebels as to procedures of that you can be sure. And the Speaker and his office will be advising. If this happens Farage will say if you want Brexit you need to vote BP - the tories could get slaughtered. Game On !

Edited August 31, 2019 by beautifulthailand99

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

.....and get ready for the bashing and blaming games to start, they can't accept that what BJ did is undemocratic 555

I think you've missed the whole point of voting in the referendum to leave the EU. Boris is being democratic whilst the MPs that are trying to scupper and overturn the democratic will of the electorate are running around like possessed zombies.

So I'm sure you'll agree with me that if Boris is trying his best to deliver what was promised, he is far from undemocratic. Do not forget we have an highly biased speaker of the house who is a Europhile and will do anything to prevent Brexit happening, so when Boris is kicking a ball into a net manned by 12 goal keepers he needs every tool in his box to aid him.

I do understand that most remainers think if they personally do not agree with something, it is not democratic, they have a lot to learn.

I fully understand the principles of a sovereign parliament, but it doesn't appear to be working very well now does it, it needed someone like Boris to kickstart a useless house of commons.

[howbri]

2 hours ago, keith101 said:

The UKs DONALD TRUMP

You should be so fortunate

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

Yes when the government passed a bill to allow the electorate to have a vote to determine our destination, and we voted and the government triggered art 50 to leave the EU, thereby making it law. The majority of parliament voted for leaving the EU so if they didn't want to leave the EU they should have not signed art50.

 

Absolutely correct, but not as straightforward as that. Parliament did not vote to leave the EU, they voted to invoke Article 50. The procedural guidelines for Article 50 only refers to dealing with issues such as citizens rights and financial settlement under an agreement so in voting to invoke Article 50 they were effectively voting to leave under an agreement.

It is highly likely that parliament overlooked the possibility that an agreement may not be concluded, but as we all know brexit democracy prohibits anyone reconsidering their position on the issue.

 

The European Council (without the participation of the Member State concerned) then provides guidelines for the negotiations between the EU and the state concerned, with the aim of concluding an agreement setting out concrete withdrawal arrangements.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2016/577971/EPRS_BRI(2016)577971_EN.pdf

[soalbundy]

2 hours ago, keith101 said:

The UKs DONALD TRUMP

He isn't that bad, he can still pronounce big words and he can read.

[soalbundy]

Just now, howbri said:

You should be so fortunate

I don't really want a pre-dementia PM.

[beautifulthailand99]

28 minutes ago, vogie said:

I think you've missed the whole point of voting in the referendum to leave the EU. Boris is being democratic whilst the MPs that are trying to scupper and overturn the democratic will of the electorate are running around like possessed zombies.

So I'm sure you'll agree with me that if Boris is trying his best to deliver what was promised, he is far from undemocratic. Do not forget we have an highly biased speaker of the house who is a Europhile and will do anything to prevent Brexit happening, so when Boris is kicking a ball into a net manned by 12 goal keepers he needs every tool in his box to aid him.

I do understand that most remainers think if they personally do not agree with something, it is not democratic, they have a lot to learn.

I fully understand the principles of a sovereign parliament, but it doesn't appear to be working very well now does it, it needed someone like Boris to kickstart a useless house of commons.

By any means necessary. If we don't leave on the 31st time to choose Tory/Brexit Party - looks like Boris has been stopped by security at the door and said you haven't paid your bill sir. ????

 

Nigel Farage 
"We cannot ignore the political will of the people any more

"If Boris doesn't bring home a clean-break Brexit then politics will go into a further meltdown – and the 
@brexitparty_uk  will be ready to stand in every seat"

 

Edited August 31, 2019 by beautifulthailand99

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

Absolutely correct, but not as straightforward as that. Parliament did not vote to leave the EU, they voted to invoke Article 50. The procedural guidelines for Article 50 only refers to dealing with issues such as citizens rights and financial settlement under an agreement so in voting to invoke Article 50 they were effectively voting to leave under an agreement.

It is highly likely that parliament overlooked the possibility that an agreement may not be concluded, but as we all know brexit democracy prohibits anyone reconsidering their position on the issue.

 

The European Council (without the participation of the Member State concerned) then provides guidelines for the negotiations between the EU and the state concerned, with the aim of concluding an agreement setting out concrete withdrawal arrangements.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2016/577971/EPRS_BRI(2016)577971_EN.pdf

You should read A 50 again. It doesn't take long.

[superal]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

I think you've missed the whole point of voting in the referendum to leave the EU. Boris is being democratic whilst the MPs that are trying to scupper and overturn the democratic will of the electorate are running around like possessed zombies.

So I'm sure you'll agree with me that if Boris is trying his best to deliver what was promised, he is far from undemocratic. Do not forget we have an highly biased speaker of the house who is a Europhile and will do anything to prevent Brexit happening, so when Boris is kicking a ball into a net manned by 12 goal keepers he needs every tool in his box to aid him.

I do understand that most remainers think if they personally do not agree with something, it is not democratic, they have a lot to learn.

I fully understand the principles of a sovereign parliament, but it doesn't appear to be working very well now does it, it needed someone like Boris to kickstart a useless house of commons.

Do these opposers of BJs suspension of parliament understand what is being played ? They are undermining his negotiating strategy and aiding the EU panel . The EU must be rubbing their hands as the opposers are hindering good progress by BJ .  And what do the opposers have to say ? nothing constructive only another G/E or referendum .  Any judicial review will be in favour of BJ as facts are facts and supposition  and conjecture count for nothing .  As for the speaker J/C he is overstepping his brief and is completely biased which is certainly not democratic . Needs bringing down a peg or two and I think he will be surprised at the potency of BJs rhetoric .  Bring it on next week and sort out these disruptive pointless opposers who seem to thrive and enjoy causing mayhem . 

[puipuitom]

3 hours ago, blazes said:

And John Major, the GREY puppet of Spitting Image, approved a "disorderly exit of the pound from the Exchange Rate Mechanism" [the forerunner of the Euro] did he?  I wonder how many today would have preferred the UK to be now using the Euro?

When the pound was worth € 1,70....( and now € 1,10)  I presume many British. But also here.. the British decided to go their own way. 

[Thingamabob]

Boris is doing a good job under very difficult circumstances not of his own making. I wish him the very best of luck.

[david555]

9 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

Boris is doing a good job under very difficult circumstances not of his own making. I wish him the very best of luck.

Only on the last part I can find to agree with you …...as he is in need for much" best luck" in things to come under his Brexit no deal

[Nigel Garvie]

19 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

When the pound was worth € 1,70....( and now € 1,10)  I presume many British. But also here.. the British decided to go their own way. 

I always wanted to be in the Euro, I could see with a little added weight we could have a second global currency. Many believe that Sadam Hussain's threat to use Euros not USD for oil, was a big part of why the US invaded. As I have written before,  we pompously decided to go into the ERM at a rate that our economy couldn't support. We got stuffed as we well deserved. John Major was just the fall guy of the day, could have been anybody. 

Thanks to Brexiteers shafting the pound pretty soon people may well be glad to swap them for Euro's one for one.

[Nigel Garvie]

2 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

By any means necessary. If we don't leave on the 31st time to choose Tory/Brexit Party - looks like Boris has been stopped by security at the door and said you haven't paid your bill sir. ????

 

Nigel Farage 
"We cannot ignore the political will of the people any more

"If Boris doesn't bring home a clean-break Brexit then politics will go into a further meltdown – and the 
@brexitparty_uk  will be ready to stand in every seat"

 

Nigel Farage has been strangely quiet recently. I doubt he really wants to run a political party. The payback he is due from the tax avoiders he has helped, must be eye watering. Then there's his EU pension. BJ suits him fine, if there is a GE he will do a deal and be content with a few seats if any. Imagine never having to talk to Anne Widdecome ever again - bliss indeed!

[nauseus]

24 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Nigel Farage has been strangely quiet recently. I doubt he really wants to run a political party. The payback he is due from the tax avoiders he has helped, must be eye watering. Then there's his EU pension. BJ suits him fine, if there is a GE he will do a deal and be content with a few seats if any. Imagine never having to talk to Anne Widdecome ever again - bliss indeed!

He is pretty quiet but he was on TV a couple of times last week. He knows that all he can do for now is to wait patiently and see what happens. 

[david555]

 

Thousands protest against Boris Johnson's parliament shutdown

Crowds march, wave banners and chant ‘stop the coup’ in cities across UK

• Prorogation protests across the UK – latest updates

 

 

 

https://news.sky.com/story/shame-on-you-thousands-of-protesters-tell-boris-johnson-to-stop-coup-11798715

 

There have also been protests in Birmingham, Manchester, Newcastle, Liverpool, Glasgow, Swansea, Leeds, York, Belfast, Bristol and Aberdeen as well as in towns including Bodmin in Cornwall and Clitheroe in Lancashire.

Edited August 31, 2019 by david555

[evadgib]

7 hours ago, NanLaew said:

To be more specific, it's him!

 

 

He was a major player in ensuring Theresa May stayed on her token Brexit course and he's hell-bent on trying to drive Johnson's ship onto the same dangerous rocks.

Isn't that the same woman who has just been fired on the right?

[Loiner]

I have become quite sanguine about the whole Brexit thing now. 
  I have moved my business to mainland Europe and it is now doing well again and I am perusing the property brochures of sunny Spain.  Not so bad after all!

Sensible solution all round really. I hope the rest of the rabid Remainers will do the same thing.

[Baerboxer]

8 hours ago, vogie said:

Yes when the government passed a bill to allow the electorate to have a vote to determine our destination, and we voted and the government triggered art 50 to leave the EU, thereby making it law. The majority of parliament voted for leaving the EU so if they didn't want to leave the EU they should have not signed art50.

So when you say "it's not us it's them" maybe you should be saying 'it is not you, but us.'

 

The problem isn't parliament, or parliamentary process. The problem is parliamentarians - the current crop of spineless self interested expense fiddling greedy hypocritical bar-stewards who lack the guts to honor their oaths and do the representative job they were elected to do as per their honest convictions.

 

And Johnson is one of them, as is R-Mogg, Corbyn and the clown who leads the SNP at Westminster.

[Baerboxer]

16 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Sensible solution all round really. I hope the rest of the rabid Remainers will do the same thing.

 

Sounds like a Brexiter comment. "If they don't knuckle under to our view tell em to <deleted>-off".

 

About as intelligent as their arguments get.

[evadgib]

25 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Sounds like a Brexiter comment. "If they don't knuckle under to our view tell em to <deleted>-off".

 

About as intelligent as their arguments get.

'Ficker than us' is wearing extremely thin. Can't any of you tabulate more imaginative insults that hit home while giving both sides a good laugh? Grouse was quite good at it prior to taking up gardening...

[flossie35]

9 hours ago, vogie said:

Yes when the government passed a bill to allow the electorate to have a vote to determine our destination, and we voted and the government triggered art 50 to leave the EU, thereby making it law. The majority of parliament voted for leaving the EU so if they didn't want to leave the EU they should have not signed art50.

So when you say "it's not us it's them" maybe you should be saying 'it is not you, but us.'

 

The (unecessary) referendum was ADVISORY, leaving MPs to decide whether or not it was in the national interest to take the advice. Art 50 merely allowed dicussions to take place; it was not a commitment to leave if the discussions led to the conclusion that we should remain. Parliament can revoke art 50 and I hope they do; we've wasted 3 years on this brexit nonsense while other problems pile up and are ignored. EU membership was never a real problem and there are no benefits to leaving. And no deal would be a big disaster according to those who understand these things. Unfortunately this group does not include buffoon JB.

[vogie]

8 minutes ago, flossie35 said:

 

The (unecessary) referendum was ADVISORY, leaving MPs to decide whether or not it was in the national interest to take the advice. Art 50 merely allowed dicussions to take place; it was not a commitment to leave if the discussions led to the conclusion that we should remain. Parliament can revoke art 50 and I hope they do; we've wasted 3 years on this brexit nonsense while other problems pile up and are ignored. EU membership was never a real problem and there are no benefits to leaving. And no deal would be a big disaster according to those who understand these things. Unfortunately this group does not include buffoon JB.

Who is JB, John Betjamen, John Bercow?

Edited August 31, 2019 by vogie

[sandyf]

6 hours ago, nauseus said:

You should read A 50 again. It doesn't take long.

You should read the post again.