Strange Problem with Powerline in just one room.

[scooterboy]

G'day folks ! ????

 

Hrmmph! - where to start?

 

We bought some TP Powerlines 2 or 3 years ago and they've been working as they should since then. Recently, I used my computer in the spare room, but couldn't connect to the internet. The same connection problem also applies to smartphones, tablets and whatever else.

 

After spending ages (days, in fact) trying out this and that, it apparently turns out that all the wall sockets connected to one particular consumer box breaker (DZ 47-63 C16) won't recognize/transmit Powerline data to be able to connect to the internet, only getting "obtaining IP-Address", which seems to go on forever, before there's finally a message "Unknown Network".. 

All lights and wall sockets connected to the said breaker work otherwise quite normally and there are no other problems (that I'm aware of). There are no other appliances connected to any of the problem wall sockets, so there ought not to be any chance of any interference.

If I connect the computer to any of the other wall sockets in the house (that are connected to different  breakers), the Powerline system works perfectly and I can connect to and use the internet as I wish.

 

I presume (though don't really know) that it's necessary to change the DZ 47-63 C16 breaker, but for what reason, exactly?

I'm also curious as to why a complete wall of wall sockets should suddenly give Powerline problems after working perfectly 
for so long.

 

The house is only 4 years old - if that's relevant.

 

Hopefully, somebody can shed some light on what's happening, as I'm at my wits end.

 

Cheers - and thanks for any help.  ????
 

[bankruatsteve]

The first thing to do if something that has been working suddenly does not, is to determine if something has changed.  Anything new plugged into that circuit?  Any recent repairs that had someone in the CU?

[Crossy]

If you have another C16 in the board you could swap the circuits between them although I really can't see what could go awry with an MCB to cause your issues.

 

[scooterboy]

1 hour ago, bankruatsteve said:

The first thing to do if something that has been working suddenly does not, is to determine if something has changed.  Anything new plugged into that circuit?  Any recent repairs that had someone in the CU?

Nothing new plugged into the circuit, no - and no repairs. The only thing that's "new" is a replacement fiber-optic router (we've been upgraded), though that doesn't seem to affect any other areas in the house apart from just that one room.

 

Thanks

[scooterboy]

32 minutes ago, Crossy said:

If you have another C16 in the board you could swap the circuits between them although I really can't see what could go awry with an MCB to cause your issues.

 

Yes, I was thinking along the same lines, just to see if there was any difference at all. However, I'm definitely not a "leccy techi" and have never tried changing such a thing before. Too, just recently come out of hospital with a leg infection, so climbing up and down ladders takes a long time and a lot of energy. I'll give it a shot tomorrow and let you know how it goes.

 

Appreciate the replies from both of you - not an easy nut to  crack, methinks.

 

In the meantime here's a pic of the consumer box - sorry about the quality - had to balance on one leg (the good one!) and could only use one hand.

 

Main Breaker, 4 x C16 (last one unused), 4 x C20 (only Bed 1 a/c used), 4 x C32 (2 used for showers). Note that the last C16 is reserved for an A/C  (which we don't have, but the a/c box is installed). The 3rd C16 from the Main Breaker is the "problematic" one.

 

Again, thanks for the good advice.

 

Cheers ????

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, scooterboy said:

Main Breaker, 4 x C16 (last one unused), 4 x C20 (only Bed 1 a/c used), 4 x C32 (2 used for showers). Note that the last C16 is reserved for an A/C  (which we don't have, but the a/c box is installed). The 3rd C16 from the Main Breaker is the "problematic" one.

 

It's usually extremely simple to swap between breakers, specially as you have an unused one, you probably only need to move a single wire as the line feed is usually commoned to all the breakers. Once you have switched off the left hand double pole breaker and takeoff the outer case.

 

In the example under you would only need to swap one of the single red wires at the bottom. I happen to have a spare C16 on the right hand end.

[bankruatsteve]

1 hour ago, scooterboy said:

Nothing new plugged into the circuit, no - and no repairs. The only thing that's "new" is a replacement fiber-optic router (we've been upgraded), though that doesn't seem to affect any other areas in the house apart from just that one room.

 

Thanks

Does the new router have a new password or something else not the same as before?

[scooterboy]

20 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

Does the new router have a new password or something else not the same as before?

Yep - router username has changed - though all PCs, smartphones, tablets, tv-boxes and whatever else you can think of, now have the appropriate username and password and all of them function perfectly anywhere in the house - except in that one room.

 

Cheers

 

[scooterboy]

Yeah, well - swapped the breakers during the afternoon, so now breaker no. 4 is connected to breaker no. 3 - and vice versa. 

 

Did it help? Nope - STILL the same crazy situation - the same one wall of power sockets still won't allow internet data to pass through the wiring. Anywhere else in the house and I'm connected to the internet in just a second or two. 

 

I guess it's down to a specific wiring problem in that particular wall - but what I know about electrics and wiring, you could write on the back of a postage stamp and still have plenty of room left over. The house is Thai-wired, so anything can happen, I guess. There's no way I'm going to rip out the wiring (unless I absolutely have to), as we're blessed with not only Powerline and LAN connections, but also with wifi. Just pop a wifi adapter into the Powerline-less PC and I can connect to the internet - so it's no big deal, really. Alternatively, I can move the PC, table and accessories from that wall - to near the door, where there's a usable power socket. 

 

Still, if anyone has the same problem and is able to fix it - or has any good suggestions - then I'd sure like to know. Unsolved problems can bug me a whole lot.

 

Thanks once again

 

Cheers ???? ????

 

 

 

[bankruatsteve]

Just a toss up... maybe try taking the cover plate off the outlets in that room and get the vacuum close and personal.  If it worked before and nothing changed, then it shouldn't be the wiring.  But it could be dirty/dusty boxes.  ??

[carlyai]

Nothing new plugged into the circuit, no - and no repairs. The only thing that's "new" is a replacement fiber-optic router (we've been upgraded), though that doesn't seem to affect any other areas in the house apart from just that one room.
 
Thanks

Just thinking to eliminate the only thing that has changed and that's the router. Do you think the problem happened after you changed the router?

If so ask the cable tech guyes to bring back your origional installed router and reinstall it and try again.

You don't have any sign of those pesky red ants do you? Seen some strange power things happen where they are involved.

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[sometimewoodworker]

35 minutes ago, scooterboy said:

Did it help? Nope - STILL the same crazy situation - the same one wall of power sockets still won't allow internet data to pass through the wiring. Anywhere else in the house and I'm connected to the internet in just a second or two. 

Jut a thing that might help. Have you checked to see that the line and neutral are connected on the same pins as elsewhere in the house?

[scooterboy]

Thanks for the latest suggestions, appreciated.

 

1. Sure, I can vacuum under the cover plates. Got a real "sucker" of a vacuum, so that ought  to clean out anything and everything.

2. No red, green or any color ants around that I know of.

3. Can't see that it can really be a router problem. If I wheel the PC out of the room to anywhere else in the house and connect it up to a Powerline, it works just fine - likewise for smartphones, etc.

4. Haven't physically checked the line and neutral points - will do so when I get time. Already used a multimeter to generally check out the points - no anomalies were found.

 

Having changed the breakers with no success, my very amateur assessment at the moment is that it's got to be a wiring problem, though I'm still bugged that everything's been working fine these last few years - until now.

 

I have a guy that comes around once in a blue moon to check/fix anything that needs doing. I'll get him to look it over - he's a leccy guy and has all the right tools. 

 

I'll post whatever the result is, but be warned there can go months between his visits.

 

Maybe one of your above suggestions will help - who knows.

 

Thanks for all the help - any more suggestions are naturally welcome.

 

Cheers ????

[tjo o tjim]

Try unplugging all your cords on the affected circuit. It could be something as simple as a cord flipped with filter capacitors on the wrong line now. If it works with everything unplugged, then start plugging things back in one by one and confirm everything still works. 

 

You don’t have a UPS or surge suppressor between that room’s gateway and the wall, correct?  Do you have any surge suppressors in the house?  What other equipment is in the room?

[scooterboy]

NOTHING is normally plugged into any of the affected room wall plugs, so I don't have anything to unplug. I'm of the old tradition - if you don't use it, then unplug it if you possibly can. Also serves as a guard against lightning, power surges and whatever. The room itself consists of ceiling lights, a ceiling fan (also with lights) and wall sockets  - a double set (the problematic ones) and a single set next to the door (no problem here, they're on a different breaker).

 

In the adjoining room (kitchen) - and on the SAME wall, is one socket that is on the problematic breaker - and which also has the same Powerline issue. I guess the wiring to this socket is perhaps extended from the problematic double wall sockets. All other sockets in the kitchen work fine.

 

UPS or surge suppressor - no have. 

 

However, I'm gonna try and pull ALL the <deleted>' plugs in and around the house (fridge, pump, tv, etc) and just have the router on - and then try again.

 

Cheers ????

[maxpower]

1 hour ago, scooterboy said:

NOTHING is normally plugged into any of the affected room wall plugs,............

While troubleshooting powerline transmission problems it it essential that you only have two adapters active. The master (router end) and one slave.

 

Be sure your adapters are plugged directly into wall sockets and not via power strips.

 

It is also advisable to switch off any WiFi transmitters or equipment likely to place noise on the power circuit while troubleshooting. Strong antenna signals can upset the powerline carrier if close to nearby cables. Note, you recently changed router.

 

Question -.- When you only have two paired adapters active, do they remain paired as you move the slave through the house or do they lose pairing when on the bad circuit.

I ask this because these adapters can remain paired but give bad network connection and possibly interfere with a router IP negotiation. This is often caused by some kind of inference on the power circuit that might have been introduced recently.

[bankruatsteve]

I would guess that the culprit to the vast majority of weird electrical problems in this forum has been critters:  ants and geckos mostly.  If I were to bet, it would be that one or more of your outlet boxes is compromised by critters.

[mikecha]

HImaybe ou have the livheck wiring e and negative crossed in the plug outlet check wiring

[ThePioneer]

On 9/2/2019 at 6:44 PM, sometimewoodworker said:

Off topic question. Why do you have all red wires at the bottom, and the copper " bar" at the top?

 

I have the same setup with the same breakers, and mine is just opposite.

[bankruatsteve]

36 minutes ago, ThePioneer said:

Off topic question. Why do you have all red wires at the bottom, and the copper " bar" at the top?

 

I have the same setup with the same breakers, and mine is just opposite.

In that case, red is the choice for L.  In your case, are you saying you have white as L (going into the breakers)?  If so, that is not conventional but as long as it is consistent not necessarily a problem

[ThePioneer]

14 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

In that case, red is the choice for L.  In your case, are you saying you have white as L (going into the breakers)?  If so, that is not conventional but as long as it is consistent not necessarily a problem

My lives are red and go into the breakers at the top

 

[scooterboy]

22 hours ago, maxpower said:

While troubleshooting powerline transmission problems it it essential that you only have two adapters active. The master (router end) and one slave.

 

Be sure your adapters are plugged directly into wall sockets and not via power strips.

Agreed! 

 

The adapters remain paired when moving through the house, but pairing appears to falter on the bad circuit. If I then move on to a "normal" socket, pairing resumes without me having to pair the adapters again. Yes, interference, wrong/bad wiring or dead insect/reptile. 

 

I have yet  to vacuum the affected sockets - as suggested by another member - some leg problems prohibiting that just at the moment. Never mind, no hurry, eh.

 

Cheers ????

 

[sometimewoodworker]

41 minutes ago, ThePioneer said:

Off topic question. Why do you have all red wires at the bottom, and the copper " bar" at the top?

 

I have the same setup with the same breakers, and mine is just opposite.

Because the original installer, not an electriction, had wired up that CU in the way shown here and to sort that out it was better to put the bus bar on top.

 

 

Wiring the CU with the bus bar at the top makes no difference and can be better.

 

This is the full cleaned up version.

 

These are more examples of professional work, some have the bus bar on top some under.

 

 

[The Theory]

On 9/2/2019 at 3:38 PM, scooterboy said:

The same connection problem also applies to smartphones, tablets and whatever else.

It sounds like “ghost in the machine”.

Have you tried the “whatever else” in the same room, but by getting power from other side of your house by a long extension cord ? And test them by the same extension cord somewhere away that room while the extension cord plugged into one of outlets in the same room to see what will happen. 

[esclub]

I haven’t read all the posts here but the last thing I would be doing is opening the consumer unit and swapping breakers unless you know what your doing. Firstly I would test the sockets fed from that breaker verifying that they all work using a table lamp etc, next I would swap the TP unit with a known good one from another circuit. I would guess the fault is in the TP if all sockets are good after verifying with the lamp. I doubt anything is wrong with the cabling at all if it’s powering a lamp. Might need a new TP.

[bankruatsteve]

Well, you should have read all the posts. 

[scooterboy]

Weeellll - the 'blue moon' guy happened to come by in the late afternoon. He looked at the problem and was just as mystified as we are. Turns out that one Powerline died, though another Powerline still wouldn't work in any of the affected sockets.  After trying out this and that he said he'd have to try connecting new wiring the next time he comes, to see if it made any difference.

 

However, I'm not sure when the next 'blue moon' is, so maybe we'll have to wait awhile until anything new happens. I'll post the result when it's possible.

 

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions.

 

Cheers ????

[esclub]

17 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

Well, you should have read all the posts. 

Why’s that then?

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, esclub said:

1 hour ago, bankruatsteve said:

Well, you should have read all the posts. 

Why’s that then?

you would be able to understand what has already been suggested and tried.

 

Is it difficult to read 24 posts?

[kensisaket]

I would wait until all this rain has stopped and see what happens when things are dryer.