UK lawmakers reject PM Johnson's request to hold an early election

[Laughing Gravy]

1 minute ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

None of the parties changed their manifestos. All manifestos clearly said to leave with a deal (CON, LAB) or not at all (some others). 

Labour are not sticking to their manifesto, they are changing it. Do some reading and look at what John McDonnell is saying. So they are going back on their manifesto and he as shadow chancellor, is talking about a new manifesto. Allegedly like their GE election leaflets already printed.

[JonnyF]

2 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

No. She has the democratic right to oppose Brexit. Particularly a no-deal version. It would be up to her electorate to vote against her if they didn't agree.

A second referendum is pointless if Remain MP's promise to still block it in Parliament. Solves nothing.

 

The electorate cannot vote against her because the cowards blocked the GE. 

[stephenterry]

Just now, JonnyF said:

A second referendum is pointless if Remain MP's promise to still block it in Parliament. Solves nothing.

 

The electorate cannot vote against her because the cowards blocked the GE. 

The 'cowards' are doing what's best for Britain, something that Johnson and brexiteers fail to accept.. 

[stephenterry]

2 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Labour are not sticking to their manifesto, they are changing it. Do some reading and look at what John McDonnell is saying. So they are going back on their manifesto and he as shadow chancellor, is talking about a new manifesto. Allegedly like their GE election leaflets already printed.

Good. About time, too. Living in the past is not today's gambit.

[stephenterry]

4 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

So what does BRINO mean to you? What part of May's deal do you particularly object to?

 

If the man in the street doesn't give a toss, why didn't he let the government decide wheter to trigger Article %)? Why bother him with a stupid referendum? Actually, doing that would be much more in line with parliamentary democracy which is what's supposed to govern the UK.

Brino is fine with me. But you need to accept that it's ONLY parliament who can DECIDE on any outcome, not the man in the street. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

4 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Labour are not sticking to their manifesto, they are changing it. Do some reading and look at what John McDonnell is saying. So they are going back on their manifesto and he as shadow chancellor, is talking about a new manifesto. Allegedly like their GE election leaflets already printed.

One person saying something doesn’t constitute a change of the party manifesto. 

 

Anyway there are clear rules governing elections. MPs are not obliged to agree to an early election. 

[JonnyF]

2 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

The 'cowards' are doing what's best for Britain, something that Johnson and brexiteers fail to accept.. 

The cowards blocked the deal, blocked no deal and now block a General Election because they cannot accept losing the referendum and know they would lose the GE. 

 

Degrading British Democracy is not good for Britain. Dragging out this uncertainty is not good for Britain. Ignoring the electorate is not good for Britain.

 

 

[DannyCarlton]

 

22 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Really?

 

Labour has been calling for an election for 2 years and then when offered, refused one. Why should anyone believe the cowards will allow one this time if Johnson requests an extension? Corbyn changes his mind with the wind.

 

What part of this don't you understand? Or are you continuing to argue black is white as some sort of personal anger management therapy?

 

58 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

It doesn't work like that. If Johnson had won the vote last night he would then be able to choose the date of the election. Now the opposition parties (not just Labour) have the power to set the date of the election.

 

The decision to vote against revolved around Boris Cummings being a slimey git and choosing a date prior to October 31st to further prevent parliament from preventing a no deal Brexit, which only some Tory MPs want and virtually no one in the opposition. Nothing to do with being cowards. Why would the SNP vote against an election when they are set to sweep the board in Scotland and wipe the Tories off the map? Same with Lib Dems who are predicted to make big gains.

 

Nothing to do with cowardice, all to do with Boris Cummings playing schoolboy games to prevent parliamentary democracy.

 

[Rookiescot]

15 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Not required. Leaving with No Deal is Leaving.

So the will of the people is what YOU want not what they want.

[stephenterry]

2 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

The cowards blocked the deal, blocked no deal and now block a General Election because they cannot accept losing the referendum and know they would lose the GE. 

 

Degrading British Democracy is not good for Britain. Dragging out this uncertainty is not good for Britain. Ignoring the electorate is not good for Britain.

 

 

Clearly,  my viewpoint differs from yours, although I completely agree with the highlighted sentence. But in order for that to transpire, there are better ways than a kamikaze no-deal exit which certainly isn't best for Britain by a long chalk.

[Bluespunk]

33 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Excuses for cowardice are particularly odious.

 johnson has been outmaneuvered and is bleating about cowardice, because he's trying to deflect and blame others for what happened.

 

Losing 6 votes on the bounce though, kind of highlights this fact. 

[brucec64]

If as a party you had a manifesto and now you change it, isn't it only right you give the people the choice to vote in an election, as you have changed the goal posts and stance, on what you as an MP came to power, in their constituents.

And by the same token, if the terms of a referendum have been found to have changed, isn't it only right to have a second referendum?

We can do this all day...

Sent from my SM-N950F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Laughing Gravy]

4 minutes ago, brucec64 said:

And by the same token, if the terms of a referendum have been found to have changed, isn't it only right to have a second referendum?

The first one hasn't been acted upon. It was leave or remain.

 

5 minutes ago, brucec64 said:

We can do this all day...

Party Manifestos and GE are not the same as binary referendums but of course you should know that, being from the UK.

[tebee]

44 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Not required. Leaving with No Deal is Leaving.

I want us to leave and join EFTA - that's also leaving, why can't I have that instead ?

[vogie]

7 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

 johnson has been outmaneuvered and is bleating about cowardice, because he's trying to deflect and blame others for what happened.

 

Losing 6 votes on the bounce though, kind of highlights this fact. 

I would have thought that the losing of the six votes was more to do with Mrs May leaving the ship she inherited in an unseaworthy condition. Boris is trying his best to reach port with a band of mutinous crew whilst still sailing againgst the wind, nobody can fault a captain that is trying.

And yes Labour are still cowards who have of yet still not revealed their position on Brexit, only Emily Thornbury has said Labour would go to Brussels to secure a deal that is best for our country, then come back home and vote againgst it.????????????

[Bluespunk]

8 minutes ago, vogie said:

I would have thought that the losing of the six votes was more to do with Mrs May leaving the ship she inherited in an unseaworthy condition. Boris is trying his best to reach port with a band of mutinous crew whilst still sailing againgst the wind, nobody can fault a captain that is trying.

And yes Labour are still cowards who have of yet still not revealed their position on Brexit, only Emily Thornbury has said Labour would go to Brussels to secure a deal that is best for our country, then come back home and vote againgst it.????????????

So what he did to may is now coming to him.

 

Karma

 

Labour don't trust johnson to keep his word and I don't blame them.

 

If he wants an election, then he knows what he must do...

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

So what he did to may is now coming to him.

 

Karma

 

Labour don't trust johnson to keep his word and I don't blame them.

 

If he wants an election, then he knows what he must do...

Labour don't trust their leader and in all fairness who can blame them. If they thought that they could win an election they would have one, simple, they could put this total debacle to bed once and for all, they are scared. 

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

Labour don't trust their leader and in all fairness who can blame them. If they thought that they could win an election they would have one, simple, they could put this total debacle to bed once and for all, they are scared. 

And the reason for the Lib Dems and SNP not wanting an election just now?

[vogie]

1 minute ago, DannyCarlton said:

And the reason for the Lib Dems and SNP not wanting an election just now?

Losers?

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

Losers?

The polls are predicting the Lib Dems to make sustantial gains if there were an election tomorrow.

 

The SNP are predicted to make virtually a clean sweep in Scotland, completely descimating the Tories.

 

Both are champing at the bit for an election but won't call one until it's clear that Boris can't force a no deal Brexit on October 31st. Same as Labour.

[Basil B]

Just a total wast of Parliamentary time, nothing changed since last Wednesday same motion same result, what else did he expect, just like May and her meaningful votes...

 

So by the time Parliament returns on October the 14th Boris will have been PM for 83 days and Parliament will have only sat for 6 days.

[sammieuk1]

Where will the trick or treaters be doing their shopping this year in the impending Halloween blood bath my money's on the pound shop if its not already gone bust Harrods if the Liberals stride into town????

[Basil B]

14 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

And the reason for the Lib Dems and SNP not wanting an election just now?

They want as soon as a "No Deal Brexit" has been prevented...

[VincentRJ]

A major problem with Brexit which tends to be avoided, is the obvious failure of the U.K. democratic system, with regard to referendums.

 

Before another referendum is held on Brexit or any other issue, the system needs to be fixed.

 

In Australia, a referendum needs a double majority to be successful, that is, a majority of the total voting population plus a majority of the voters in a majority of the states. Since we have 6 states in Australia, there has to a majority vote in at least 4 states for a referendum to pass..

 

If the U.K. adopted our system, the initial Brexit referendum would not have been successful. The Australian system also requires compulsory registration for all eligible voters of the age of 18 or more, and compulsory voting for all registered voters.

 

The U.K. should learn from Australia and change its rules before embarking on another referendum. ????

[vogie]

11 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

The polls are predicting the Lib Dems to make sustantial gains if there were an election tomorrow.

 

The SNP are predicted to make virtually a clean sweep in Scotland, completely descimating the Tories.

 

Both are champing at the bit for an election but won't call one until it's clear that Boris can't force a no deal Brexit on October 31st. Same as Labour.

But surely if you are so confident as you say, the Lib/Dems and the SNP have nothing to fear now have they. But let's not kid ourselves, the only chomping being done on the bits is by the also rans.

[Basil B]

26 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Boris is trying his best to reach port with a band of mutinous crew whilst still sailing againgst the wind

Boris is trying his best to reach port the rocks with a band of mutinous crew whilst still sailing againgst the wind

[DannyCarlton]

6 minutes ago, Basil B said:

Just a total wast of Parliamentary time, nothing changed since last Wednesday same motion same result, what else did he expect, just like May and her meaningful votes...

 

So by the time Parliament returns on October the 14th Boris will have been PM for 83 days and Parliament will have only sat for 6 days.

And has had 6 votes, 6 losses in 6 days. 666. OMG it's an omen.

 

                                                

[Basil B]

3 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

In Australia, a referendum needs a double majority to be successful, that is, a majority of the total voting population plus a majority of the voters in a majority of the states. Since we have 6 states in Australia, there has to a majority vote in at least 4 states for a referendum to pass..

I would have settled for 60% of votes cast...

[DannyCarlton]

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

But surely if you are so confident as you say, the Lib/Dems and the SNP have nothing to fear now have they. But let's not kid ourselves, the only chomping being done on the bits is by the also rans.

I'm not confident, the Lib Dems and the SNP are. Do you dispute the predictions for them? Please say yes. 555

[vogie]

15 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

I'm not confident, the Lib Dems and the SNP are. Do you dispute the predictions for them? Please say yes. 555

I certainly don't dispute that the Tories are 10 points ahead of the Lib/Dems nor do I dispute that Boris is ahead of all other leaders by a coutry mile.