Buddhist group goes after Buddha-Ultraman artist, as abbot calls on society to forgive and forget

[oldhippy]

3 minutes ago, mark131v said:

Yaaaawn...….

 

Why are you making excuses? stupid is as stupid does in the immortal words of Forrest Gump.....probably...!?

 

If most Thais have the BASIC knowledge they know that this is nonsense, 2 options they either have basic knowledge or no knowledge other than the adulterated version they are taught here

 

Appears to be no knowledge, wish I was surprised.....

True!

The only good thing that can be said about Thai buddhism, is that they did not start civil wars, unlike the Sri Lankan and Myanmar versions of buddhism.

 

 

[Perhaps2more]

6 hours ago, DavisH said:

Thai culture is so far from buddhist teachings...didn't Lord Buddha even say "question everything, even what I say". Thais are taught not to question anyone considered superior to them. I don't see a lot of genuine Buddhists here; it is in stark contrast to Thai culture. 

The Buddha also talks about many levels of understanding, comparing to a lotus in the mud, above the mud but under water, level with water, and above water. Not all Buddhists are above water. People are like that in every religion. There are a lot of Buddhist teachings in Thai culture if you care to think of it. The community you are with may not be the norm, perhaps?

[oldhippy]

3 minutes ago, Perhaps2more said:

The Buddha also talks about many levels of understanding, comparing to a lotus in the mud, above the mud but under water, level with water, and above water. Not all Buddhists are above water. People are like that in every religion. There are a lot of Buddhist teachings in Thai culture if you care to think of it. The community you are with may not be the norm, perhaps?

Can you give me 1 example of a country or culture or community that even vaguely applies buddhist principles?

Perhaps some wishy washy third agers in some farang town, that discovered buddhism after a life of drug abuse? Come to think of it, they are probably closest to what mister buddha alledgedly said.

 

[Perhaps2more]

16 minutes ago, mark131v said:

Yaaaawn...….

 

Why are you making excuses? stupid is as stupid does in the immortal words of Forrest Gump.....probably...!?

 

If most Thais have the BASIC knowledge they know that this is nonsense, 2 options they either have basic knowledge or no knowledge other than the adulterated version they are taught here

 

Appears to be no knowledge, wish I was surprised.....

Interesting that you can not understand the knowing and practising are not the same. I am sure most Thai know the basic of not to kill and the non attachment but how many can practise these teaching. I do not see many Christians can practise the teaching of Christ either. You are not saying they do not know Christ's teaching.

Why would you see fact as an excuse? I did not offer reasons for people to excuse the situation. You have no right to excuse them because you are not a Buddhist. I don't think you have any belief either. That is your choice, it does not mean you are right and those who have their belief are wrong. 

When what they believe to be sacred was made into a gimmick, it is not difficult to understand their feeling of anger. I am sure people in the Vatican will be just as angry if someone painted Christ as an ape.

It is about respect to other people's belief. Not an excuse. ... But what do you know or care ?

[mark131v]

1 minute ago, Perhaps2more said:

Interesting that you can not understand the knowing and practising are not the same. I am sure most Thai know the basic of not to kill and the non attachment but how many can practise these teaching. I do not see many Christians can practise the teaching of Christ either. You are not saying they do not know Christ's teaching.

Why would you see fact as an excuse? I did not offer reasons for people to excuse the situation. You have no right to excuse them because you are not a Buddhist. I don't think you have any belief either. That is your choice, it does not mean you are right and those who have their belief are wrong. 

When what they believe to be sacred was made into a gimmick, it is not difficult to understand their feeling of anger. I am sure people in the Vatican will be just as angry if someone painted Christ as an ape.

It is about respect to other people's belief. Not an excuse. ... But what do you know or care ?

Did you read the OP? 

[Perhaps2more]

10 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Can you give me 1 example of a country or culture or community that even vaguely applies buddhist principles?

Perhaps some wishy washy third agers in some farang town, that discovered buddhism after a life of drug abuse? Come to think of it, they are probably closest to what mister buddha alledgedly said.

 

Doesn't it show with a question like that? Obviously, you know nothing but want to judge the subject of Buddhism. Buddhist principles, many principles and you can not see one country, community or culture the even vaguely applies some of these principles. You must be either blind or senseless.

What the Buddha allegedly said to you is what the Buddha said to the Buddhists, because all the teachings were learnt by heart as a rule for all monks before all were written down. 

It is quite ridiculous when a non Buddhist trying to be discourteous to Buddhism. Go on show yourself up.

[oldhippy]

18 minutes ago, Perhaps2more said:

Interesting that you can not understand the knowing and practising are not the same. I am sure most Thai know the basic of not to kill and the non attachment but how many can practise these teaching. I do not see many Christians can practise the teaching of Christ either. You are not saying they do not know Christ's teaching.

Why would you see fact as an excuse? I did not offer reasons for people to excuse the situation. You have no right to excuse them because you are not a Buddhist. I don't think you have any belief either. That is your choice, it does not mean you are right and those who have their belief are wrong. 

When what they believe to be sacred was made into a gimmick, it is not difficult to understand their feeling of anger. I am sure people in the Vatican will be just as angry if someone painted Christ as an ape.

It is about respect to other people's belief. Not an excuse. ... But what do you know or care ?

Can we agree that the discrepancy between theory and practice applies to all dogmatic thinking, including religions, marxism, free market theory etc?

Can we agree that this discrepancy is a matter of hypocrisy?

Can we agree that outsiders have the right to denounce this hypocrisy?

[oldhippy]

16 minutes ago, Perhaps2more said:

Doesn't it show with a question like that? Obviously, you know nothing but want to judge the subject of Buddhism. Buddhist principles, many principles and you can not see one country, community or culture the even vaguely applies some of these principles. You must be either blind or senseless.

What the Buddha allegedly said to you is what the Buddha said to the Buddhists, because all the teachings were learnt by heart as a rule for all monks before all were written down. 

It is quite ridiculous when a non Buddhist trying to be discourteous to Buddhism. Go on show yourself up.

All I can see in religions (and political dogmatism) is rituals, nothing of essence.

[Perhaps2more]

1 minute ago, oldhippy said:

Can we agree that the discrepancy between theory and practice applies to all dogmatic thinking, including religions, marxism, free market theory etc?

Can we agree that this discrepancy is a matter of hypocrisy?

Can we agree that outsiders have the right to denounce this hypocrisy?

1) Buddhism is about understanding nature and finding peace. Whether you can practise it or not is another matter.

The Principle of nature always remains the same. Understand unhappiness and what are the causes of unhappiness is important.

The ways to deal with unhappiness lead to the enlightenment.

In advance psychology many of its theories are Buddhist principles. 

Buddhism is not the same as other religions because it does not have God. The Buddha is a teacher.

Buddhism is about the fact of life, personal peace, not the world peace or those theories you mentioned. It is not worldly but personally.

2) Hypocrisy is a word that has nothing to do with Wisdom. Understanding nature of all things is Wisdom.

3) Outsiders should never interfere with anything that has nothing to do with them. It is not the way to peace.

[mark131v]

7 minutes ago, Perhaps2more said:

1) Buddhism is about understanding nature and finding peace. Whether you can practise it or not is another matter.

The Principle of nature always remains the same. Understand unhappiness and what are the causes of unhappiness is important.

The ways to deal with unhappiness lead to the enlightenment.

In advance psychology many of its theories are Buddhist principles. 

Buddhism is not the same as other religions because it does not have God. The Buddha is a teacher.

Buddhism is about the fact of life, personal peace, not the world peace or those theories you mentioned. It is not worldly but personally.

2) Hypocrisy is a word that has nothing to do with Wisdom. Understanding nature of all things is Wisdom.

3) Outsiders should never interfere with anything that has nothing to do with them. It is not the way to peace.

3) Outsiders should never interfere with anything that has nothing to do with them. It is not the way to peace.

 

 

Somethings are absolutely shocking!

 

Bloody hell stupidity is very, very common, <deleted>in gobsmacked but not particularly shocked unfortunately......

[Perhaps2more]

16 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

All I can see in religions (and political dogmatism) is rituals, nothing of essence.

Why don't you learn about Buddhist teaching? It is a practical science. You have to do it to understand it. When they teach about Giving, people do not want to give, most people want to keep, but if you give you will psychologically feel that you have more than you actually have that is why you can afford to give.

Rituals are for people without understanding, its attraction is useful in keeping these people close to to the temple.

The essence is in the teaching not the rituals.

"there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." (Shakespeare)

A very Buddhist teaching, The teaching even splits the action into the ability to see, the object to be seen, and the space in between.

Only when you attach your thought to the object, that is when the good or bad come to be.

[Perhaps2more]

14 minutes ago, mark131v said:

3) Outsiders should never interfere with anything that has nothing to do with them. It is not the way to peace.

 

 

Somethings are absolutely shocking!

 

Bloody hell stupidity is very, very common, <deleted>in gobsmacked but not particularly shocked unfortunately......

Obviously, it is beyond your ability to understand.

[mark131v]

11 minutes ago, Perhaps2more said:

Obviously, it is beyond your ability to understand.

Possibly.....

 

 

[canuckamuck]

1 hour ago, Perhaps2more said:

1) Buddhism is about understanding nature and finding peace. Whether you can practise it or not is another matter.

The Principle of nature always remains the same. Understand unhappiness and what are the causes of unhappiness is important.

The ways to deal with unhappiness lead to the enlightenment.

In advance psychology many of its theories are Buddhist principles. 

Buddhism is not the same as other religions because it does not have God. The Buddha is a teacher.

Buddhism is about the fact of life, personal peace, not the world peace or those theories you mentioned. It is not worldly but personally.

2) Hypocrisy is a word that has nothing to do with Wisdom. Understanding nature of all things is Wisdom.

3) Outsiders should never interfere with anything that has nothing to do with them. It is not the way to peace.

By pointing out the essence of Buddhism in your posts. ie, That attachment is suffering. You are proving the point everyone is making, Why are people offended by the painting? Because they fail in their personal peace. It is not Buddhism that is being criticized in these posts, but the misapplication of it. The offended people are upset because they are not practicing what they have been taught.

[mserror]

Religious fiction becoming science fiction.

[FarFlungFalang]

5 hours ago, Perhaps2more said:

Talking about ordinary people, of course, they are upset when someone is taking what is sacred to them and turns that into American comic. It is disrespectful. Besides, the art work is quite amateurish.

Disrespect like art is in the eye of the beholder disrespect was not the artist's intention only the perception of some.One of the artist works has sold for 600,000 baht ($30,000 AUD)which is hardly amateurish.

[unamazedloso]

The girls an artist. Shes got far more talent than anyone thats harassing her. Hope she moves abroad and paints more provocative stuff.

I guess she aint Buddhist now!????????

[Perhaps2more]

8 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

By pointing out the essence of Buddhism in your posts. ie, That attachment is suffering. You are proving the point everyone is making, Why are people offended by the painting? Because they fail in their personal peace. It is not Buddhism that is being criticized in these posts, but the misapplication of it. The offended people are upset because they are not practicing what they have been taught.

Wouldn't it be nice if you would read previous comments before saying the same thing as everyone else?

" Knowing and practising are not the same things."

How many Catholic priests are really practising the teaching of Christ when they abuse altar boys?

Isn't it silly to expect every Buddhist to really do it in practice.

How easy do you think to let things be and accept whatever come to you? Most of them are only learners.

It is a very basic of good social etiquette to not doing anything discourteous to what is sacred to other people.  

The reaction to the painter is quite normal of human being all over the world. You would be lying if you expected Thai people to be different.

 

It is personal, so it is up to each individual. So far, you condemned all Thai Buddhists when the fact is only a small group of people who are not accepting the apology from the painter. Most people accepted the apology and let the painter be.

[Perhaps2more]

7 hours ago, FarFlungFalang said:

Disrespect like art is in the eye of the beholder disrespect was not the artist's intention only the perception of some.One of the artist works has sold for 600,000 baht ($30,000 AUD)which is hardly amateurish.

When a Chinese tourist let her child defecate in front of a shop in Bond street, she had no intention to upset any British person but it was reported in many newspapers and many Brits condemned the Chinese woman. Intention and Outcome, each has its own effects. 

Do you really think the painter has good ability in her work? Art works sell for many reasons. A piece of rope that was used to hang an infamous person can be sold for a lot of money. So far a pickled goat sold for a million dollars but at least Damien Hirst can do other art works beautifully.

I am sure that you are wise enough to know the price does not reflect the ability of the artist? Or may be I am wrong.

[Chazar]

On 9/11/2019 at 8:09 PM, mark131v said:

Seems like Buddhism has a very different message in LoS

The message is very clear, Armed  forces  Police and "religion"  all vying for their share of control of the pie, anything but the  fairly elected  people.

[Chazar]

35 minutes ago, Perhaps2more said:

Most people accepted the apology

There is  no need for an apology, the  person taking offence should be apologising in this  case.

[Perhaps2more]

1 minute ago, Chazar said:

There is  no need for an apology, the  person taking offence should be apologising in this  case.

She apologized officially but you may do whatever you think is best for her, because you probably understand the society she has been living in better than she is capable of.

[DrTuner]

12 hours ago, oldhippy said:

The only good thing that can be said about Thai buddhism, is that they did not start civil wars, unlike the Sri Lankan and Myanmar versions of buddhism.

Yeah well.. how's the south of Thailand these days? Ok not among themselves, give it some time.

[olfu]

...Lord  Buddha is involved in reality?--let Lord Buddha fix it not people.

[canuckamuck]

3 hours ago, Perhaps2more said:

Wouldn't it be nice if you would read previous comments before saying the same thing as everyone else?

" Knowing and practising are not the same things."

How many Catholic priests are really practising the teaching of Christ when they abuse altar boys?

Isn't it silly to expect every Buddhist to really do it in practice.

How easy do you think to let things be and accept whatever come to you? Most of them are only learners.

It is a very basic of good social etiquette to not doing anything discourteous to what is sacred to other people.  

The reaction to the painter is quite normal of human being all over the world. You would be lying if you expected Thai people to be different.

 

It is personal, so it is up to each individual. So far, you condemned all Thai Buddhists when the fact is only a small group of people who are not accepting the apology from the painter. Most people accepted the apology and let the painter be.

We are pointing out the irony of defending a religion, whose main tenant is to not allow yourself to be offended, by being vocal and aggressive in your display of offense. If the priest in your analogy was claiming to practice Christianity by abusing children, then your analogy would be more accurate. But as it stands, it is not a very good analogy. And everyone would be quite angry about the priest regardless of his claims

 

Your next statement is curious. You are saying that Thais are only learners of Buddhism. I am not sure what you mean by learners, but considering this is most homogeneous Buddhist nation on earth, and the fact that they have had more than a millennia to get some fine tuning in, You would think that there would be some serious understanding and practice going on here. If not here, then where? Why should they get a pass? This is their jam after all. 

[ylmiri]

Small people will pick small problem and show they can do something. This will become a big issue for small people found all over Thailand.

Brains the size of golf balls.

[Perhaps2more]

2 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

We are pointing out the irony of defending a religion, whose main tenant is to not allow yourself to be offended, by being vocal and aggressive in your display of offense. If the priest in your analogy was claiming to practice Christianity by abusing children, then your analogy would be more accurate. But as it stands, it is not a very good analogy. And everyone would be quite angry about the priest regardless of his claims

 

Your next statement is curious. You are saying that Thais are only learners of Buddhism. I am not sure what you mean by learners, but considering this is most homogeneous Buddhist nation on earth, and the fact that they have had more than a millennia to get some fine tuning in, You would think that there would be some serious understanding and practice going on here. If not here, then where? Why should they get a pass? This is their jam after all. 

I am not defending Buddhism. I am explaining reasons to these silly expectation people have of Thai Buddhists.

It is strange to me that usually most of the non-Asian visitors to Thailand look down, talk down to the local people. They are beneath your high standard of living.

Suddenly, for some reasons, you expect them all to be of high moral value and good Buddhists. Are you talking about the same people? 

 

The Christian priests: by definition, people will assume and expect them to be practising Christian teachings.

I didn't even mention the ordinary Christian people who no matter how serious they are, will not be able to get everything right.

You may be the only one to know otherwise. 

 

Buddhism is 2562 years old, Thailand is about 800 years old, each life starts always from the beginning regardless of how long their society has been going on, so what fine tuning in, are you talking about? 

With your logic there is no need to send children to primary school, after many generations, they should all start at university level?

 

I should repeat myself here, The Buddha talks about 4 levels of ability to understand, like a lotus in the mud, under water, level with water, and above water. You are expecting everyone to have the same ability which is illogical. I am sure many Thai Buddhists didn't bother with painting but they surely know it is a bad idea to have painted them because besides religion there is also cultural belief that Thai people live by. 

 

Every new life starts his or her journey and begin the learning process. They are all learners with different level of ability. When they become enlightened, they reach Nirvana, that is the end of learning. 

[Perhaps2more]

3 hours ago, ylmiri said:

Small people will pick small problem and show they can do something. This will become a big issue for small people found all over Thailand.

Brains the size of golf balls.

Thank you. Your comment proved my point. Exactly this is how, many visitors to Thailand think of the locals.

And I assume you are foolish enough to expect them to like you back?

[DrTuner]

The thing I like about buddhism, if it's as prescribed, is that it's just about as close to atheism you can get without actually being one. Promoting thinking by yourself, not worshipping <deleted> made by other humans, etc. I think I would've liked to share a few beers with Buddha.

[canuckamuck]

6 hours ago, Perhaps2more said:

I am not defending Buddhism. I am explaining reasons to these silly expectation people have of Thai Buddhists.

It is strange to me that usually most of the non-Asian visitors to Thailand look down, talk down to the local people. They are beneath your high standard of living.

Suddenly, for some reasons, you expect them all to be of high moral value and good Buddhists. Are you talking about the same people? 

 

The Christian priests: by definition, people will assume and expect them to be practising Christian teachings.

I didn't even mention the ordinary Christian people who no matter how serious they are, will not be able to get everything right.

You may be the only one to know otherwise. 

 

Buddhism is 2562 years old, Thailand is about 800 years old, each life starts always from the beginning regardless of how long their society has been going on, so what fine tuning in, are you talking about? 

With your logic there is no need to send children to primary school, after many generations, they should all start at university level?

 

I should repeat myself here, The Buddha talks about 4 levels of ability to understand, like a lotus in the mud, under water, level with water, and above water. You are expecting everyone to have the same ability which is illogical. I am sure many Thai Buddhists didn't bother with painting but they surely know it is a bad idea to have painted them because besides religion there is also cultural belief that Thai people live by. 

 

Every new life starts his or her journey and begin the learning process. They are all learners with different level of ability. When they become enlightened, they reach Nirvana, that is the end of learning. 

 Clearly you are suffering from your attachment.