Doing business In Thailand an absolute nightmare

[Bassosa]

23 minutes ago, robblok said:

You can believe what you want but I have done business and I advise businesses. You are truly thinking its too easy. Its just a bit naive but many non business people are like you. The amounts you want to have are quite high, so its not an ordinary order. It would be different if they had a far larger normal production. I have often been called with crazy offers, it takes time to see who is real and who is not. 

 

Why would i invest a lot of time into a venture that sounds too good to be true. If its well within my normal normal production capacity its easy to give an quote. If it is not now then i first need to know that person is genuine before I am going to make a difficult calculation and see how i can allocate extra resources. 

 

It just shows that you have no real insight in how things work. If you ask for extra packaging and changes. Then they need to go and see how they adjust their packaging and how much that would cost. That is a time consuming calculation and takes quite a bit of work. I would not even start a process like that before knowing more about you. There are plenty of time wasters. You must make sure they know your not a time waster and are serious. You cant accomplish that with just a call.

 

 

Sure, it's your god given right to be apprehensive.....as long as you don't start complaining about business being slow. Succesful businesses always go above and beyond, and in the OP's case, if something about his request is out of the ordinary perhaps bring that to his attention so you can find a solution.

I'm currently setting up a business and am encountering similar attitudes from Thai companies, not just the AC salesman who didn't want to quote because we're in the hot season. I sometimes feel that Thais just miss that eagerness that other countries in the region do have and I worry for them. 

 

BTW, if you can't even get a foot in the door before a backhander is put in place than quite frankly that business deserves to be shut for good. What on earth is that about?

 

Customers are almost never #1 for Thai businesses. Some anecdotal evidence the other day. Friends of my girlfriend have opened a restaurant and they run it with the three of them. Parking around the restaurant is very limited so you've guessed already who's taking up all the parking spots. Yes it's them, from opening till closing. Unreal.

 

Edited September 12, 2019 by Bassosa

[ThePioneer]

2 hours ago, BestB said:

They do not need to have export license as I offered to buy internally and I would export it.

So you can export a product you don't even produce yourself without export license, while Thais can not?

 

You like to call people on this forum Trolls in almost every thread you enter...........I suggest you look in the mirror because this must be the biggest troll thread ever created on this forum

 

 

 

Edited September 12, 2019 by ThePioneer

[robblok]

12 minutes ago, Bassosa said:

Sure, it's your god given right to be apprehensive.....as long as you don't start complaining about business being slow. Succesful businesses always go above and beyond, and in the OP's case, if something about his request is out of the ordinary perhaps bring that to his attention so you can find a solution.

I'm currently setting up a business and am encountering similar attitudes from Thai companies, not just the AC salesman who didn't want to quote because we're in the hot season. I sometimes feel that Thais just miss that eagerness that other countries in the region do have and I worry for them. 

 

BTW, if you can't even get a foot in the door before a backhander is put in place than quite frankly that business deserves to be shut for good. What on earth is that about?

 

Customers are almost never #1 for Thai businesses. Some anecdotal evidence the other day. Friends of my girlfriend have opened a restaurant and they run it with the three of them. Parking around the restaurant is very limited so you've guessed already who's taking up all the parking spots. Yes it's them, from opening till closing. Unreal.

 

About the A/c in the hot season.. they are filled with business at that time. So they don't need your business hence the refusal. When it was dust season i could not get any air purifiers and sellers did not reply.. why.. because no need as for me there were 10 others. 

 

Successful businesses don't always go above and beyond, they first have to sort time wasters from actual business. Also the OP has no idea if the orders he places and the quotes he asks are normal or not. He has no idea of the size of the business or how full / empty they are. 

 

Things like this take time and effort you cannot expect things to go good right off the bat. Add the fact that Thais find foreigners hard to deal with makes it harder. Like i said am an accountant and advise businesses a large part of my education was in cost calculations. They can be quite hard if they are above business capacity or if someone wants something out of the ordinary (different packaging) before you even start something like that you want to be sure that the buyer is not a time waster. If the person cannot even be bothered to show up in person its a bad sign. 

 

I am just explaining what can be the cause of problems. Most people who don't do business never see the other side of things. 

Edited September 12, 2019 by robblok

[Bassosa]

17 minutes ago, robblok said:

About the A/c in the hot season.. they are filled with business at that time. So they don't need your business hence the refusal. When it was dust season i could not get any air purifiers and sellers did not reply.. why.. because no need as for me there were 10 others. 

 

Successful businesses don't always go above and beyond, they first have to sort time wasters from actual business. Also the OP has no idea if the orders he places and the quotes he asks are normal or not. He has no idea of the size of the business or how full / empty they are. 

 

Things like this take time and effort you cannot expect things to go good right off the bat. Add the fact that Thais find foreigners hard to deal with makes it harder. Like i said am an accountant and advise businesses a large part of my education was in cost calculations. They can be quite hard if they are above business capacity or if someone wants something out of the ordinary (different packaging) before you even start something like that you want to be sure that the buyer is not a time waster. If the person cannot even be bothered to show up in person its a bad sign. 

 

I am just explaining what can be the cause of problems. Most people who don't do business never see the other side of things. 

These might be valid reason but you have to admit it's all highly unprofessional. 

Not to dwell on details, but the AC guy wanted the prices to come down first before he quoted. It would be cheaper that way for us he said, ignoring the fact that we needed AC's pronto.

 

Makes you wonder what a Chinese AC vendor would've done in a similar situation. One things for sure, he would've delivered. 

Edited September 12, 2019 by Bassosa

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, Bassosa said:

These might be valid reason but you have to admit it's all highly unprofessional. 

Not to dwell on details, but the AC guy wanted the prices to come down first before he quoted. It would be cheaper that way for us he said, ignoring the fact that we needed AC's pronto.

 

Makes you wonder what a Chinese AC vendor would've done in a similar situation. One things for sure, he would've delivered. 

To be honest I don't think its unprofessional to see if someone is a time-waster or not. I have gotten some offers and got asked things that sounded fishy right of the start. Sorry but then I am not even going to respond seriously. I need to know someone is serious and it takes more then a phone callor an email to convince me.

 

Your right about the aircon guy, I just think he was booked full and looking for an excuse to keep you waiting. So he could sell in a time that he was not booked full. Not professional but a way to keep clients.

[Beggar]

14 hours ago, DaRoadrunner said:

 

This country can destroy you, mentally, physically and financially.

 

There should be a warning sign with this text at all points where you can enter the country. 

[wreckingcountry]

I think Thais distrust foreigners for no real reason , whereas foreigners have plenty of reasons to distrust... you know who . Experience has taught us


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[OneMoreFarang]

Maybe you should invest in a well educated well connected Thai person or company. Then they could look for business partners for your in Thai language knowing Thai culture, etc.

Or did you write your emails in Thai?

 

[Bassosa]

12 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Maybe you should invest in a well educated well connected Thai person or company. Then they could look for business partners for your in Thai language knowing Thai culture, etc.

Or did you write your emails in Thai?

 

Beyond bizarre that that should be needed to conduct business in Thailand. It's 2019 people! He's not dealing with the mom & pop store down the road but with big manufacturers that operate globally.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 12, 2019 by Bassosa

[BestB]

2 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

Have you sat down with them and chatted? 

 

Had a coffee?

 

i met a guy on Sukumvit sitting at the bar at The Game he had a bag full of Viagra. He was going to sell it back at home to pay for his trip.

With who? The ones who do not answer ? Or ones who do not provide price or ones who say no to everything? 

 

Any more bright suggestions ?

[BestB]

29 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Maybe you should invest in a well educated well connected Thai person or company. Then they could look for business partners for your in Thai language knowing Thai culture, etc.

Or did you write your emails in Thai?

 

How is your English? Go back a few pages and read ????

[BestB]

1 hour ago, ThePioneer said:

So you can export a product you don't even produce yourself without export license, while Thais can not?

 

You like to call people on this forum Trolls in almost every thread you enter...........I suggest you look in the mirror because this must be the biggest troll thread ever created on this forum

 

 

 

You the one making assumptions not me. So yeah I must be biggest troll while you are what exactly?

[Baerboxer]

I can let you have a copy of my "How to do business successfully in Thailand" course at a very reasonable discounted rate. PM me!

 

????

[BestB]

2 hours ago, jumbo said:

You need an export licence for everything, as a trader even harder to get...

 

Really? Factory needs export license to sell internally? Must be some new law you just invented to make the post

[OneMoreFarang]

23 minutes ago, Bassosa said:

Beyond bizarre that that should be needed to conduct business in Thailand. It's 2019 people! He's not dealing with the mom & pop store down the road but with big manufacturers that operate globally.

Why not accept reality?

I think many of us called big companies in Thailand and found out few people speak English and basically nobody would be able to make business contracts in English.

That's reality. And it's Thailand. If companies don't think English is important then who are we to tell them what they should do?

 

I think it should be obvious for every foreigner that if you want to do business in a foreign country then make sure you know the local rules and mentality or hire someone who does.

[BestB]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

You can believe what you want but I have done business and I advise businesses. You are truly thinking its too easy. Its just a bit naive but many non business people are like you. The amounts you want to have are quite high, so its not an ordinary order. It would be different if they had a far larger normal production. I have often been called with crazy offers, it takes time to see who is real and who is not. 

 

Why would i invest a lot of time into a venture that sounds too good to be true. If its well within my normal normal production capacity its easy to give an quote. If it is not now then i first need to know that person is genuine before I am going to make a difficult calculation and see how i can allocate extra resources. 

 

It just shows that you have no real insight in how things work. If you ask for extra packaging and changes. Then they need to go and see how they adjust their packaging and how much that would cost. That is a time consuming calculation and takes quite a bit of work. I would not even start a process like that before knowing more about you. There are plenty of time wasters. You must make sure they know your not a time waster and are serious. You cant accomplish that with just a call.

 

 

That’s interesting . Not too long ago when you were showing off your knowledge you stated you never had business or knew much about business in Thailand but were an accountant back in Holland . Now as it turns out , you area savy businessman doing business deals and advising business ?

 

So this time around, is that miracles of internet ? Or another attempt to appear smart?

[wisperone]

15 hours ago, BestB said:

How exactly they plan to sell without telling the price?

They will just invoice you later.

[BestB]

2 hours ago, neeray said:

My business experience buying from Thais was 180 degrees counter to yours. But maybe it's different in the big picture like yours, as mine, comparatively speaking, was small potatoes.

 

Three years ago, I purchased a container of artisan products, about a million baht, from some 3 dozen suppliers in the Chiang Mai area. They treated me with great respect, they were all eager to do business. Each and every one met their deadline for my exporter to pick up, pack and load for shipment to Canada. And the export company did their job immaculately too.

 

Maybe your big numbers just scared the ass off the little Thai business people. Perhaps it was out of their comfort zone. Please do not take this personally but maybe they saw farang big numbers as "pie in the sky" and just a waste of their time. Remember, to gear up to your levels takes some investment on their part (the natural Viagara deal for example).

 

Good luck on future ventures.

As I mentioned earlier, I did think of that. In case of seafood I think is the case . Too much to handle but to save face they just say no. 

 

Another little problem, shrimp to Oz has to be white spot free disease , many know it, and naturally do not want to admit their product will not pass Oz customs .

 

But in case of soybean oil , I do not think 1000 tins is an outrages number.

 

My seafood friend had a contact number in Thailand , he called them directly . According to him, he was abused , screamed at and hung up.

 

So he asked me to call. First day, no answer at all. Second day, guy answered and said he did not know but someone else will call back .

 

A day later , female called back and said her boyfriend has no idea about business.

 

So told her the requirements , she said she would do a quote and get back to me. This was 2 months ago .

 

tried to follow up, no answer. 

 

Saw as a guy post on Facebook advertising supply of lobster tails. Contacted him.  Was told 500 baht per piece . Told him I need 100kg , what is the price? Answer was he does not sell by the kilo, it’s 500 per piece . Ok, how much does a piece weigh?what size was his answer ? I do not know what sizes you have , small medium or large was his answer. Ok how many kg is small or medium or large. He does not weigh it  was his response 

 

where do you go from there ?????

[Bassosa]

20 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Why not accept reality?

I think many of us called big companies in Thailand and found out few people speak English and basically nobody would be able to make business contracts in English.

That's reality. And it's Thailand. If companies don't think English is important then who are we to tell them what they should do?

 

I think it should be obvious for every foreigner that if you want to do business in a foreign country then make sure you know the local rules and mentality or hire someone who does.

I don't disagree with you, companies may conduct business in whatever way they think is suitable. I'm just worried about the consequences, countries surrounding Thailand are savvier, more eager. It will not end well for Thailand if they don't wake the f up. 

 

Globalisation and all....

 

Other anecdotal evidence, and this is slightly off topic but I write articles about "tech in Asia" for a publication in my own country. It's my job to scour the Internet looking for stories about tech, entrepreneurship, disrupters etc in Asia and then write about it. I'm always on the lookout for stories about Thailand (because I live here) but I struggle to find anything at all! It's all Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia and of course China with huge investments and joint ventures in fintech, mobility, autonomous driving pilots, etc. 

Maybe Elon Musk tried contacting Thai companies but no one picked up the phone?

Edited September 12, 2019 by Bassosa

[jumbo]

22 minutes ago, BestB said:

Really? Factory needs export license to sell internally? Must be some new law you just invented to make the post

You said something about reading???

[wisperone]

4 hours ago, BestB said:

Very possibly you are right but how do you offer a backhander when you do not even know their prices?

Generally "backhanders" go in the other direction to obtain business.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 minute ago, Bassosa said:

I don't disagree with you, companies may conduct business in whatever way they think is suitable. I'm just worried about the consequences, countries surrounding Thailand are savvier, more eager. It will not end well for Thailand if they don't wake the f up. 

 

Globalisation and all....

If these companies are successful in Thailand why should they change? Only to have headache with foreigners who don't understand how things are supposed to be (from a Thai perspective)?

 

Over the years I did lots of small scale business with Thai companies and with companies in Thailand with a farang boss.

I seems sometimes Thai companies hire a farang because they think he will do a better job. And maybe he does a better job than Thais.

But then after a while maybe something has to be changed. For me it seems farang bosses know that time is money. They expect to get charged for service work. But it seems many Thai bosses somehow expect service free of charge. And that's the moment when the business relation stops because both parties (Thais and farangs) have different expectations. And I wouldn't say Thais who expect free service are wrong. That's what they are used to all their life, and then this farang comes and changes the Thai rules.

 

This is obviously different from selling products. But I am sure there will be on both sides expectations and at least some of those expectations will be very different - but never discussed. And then the problems start...

So I don't blame Thais if they are not keen on doing business with those strange farangs...

 

[malibukid]

customer service sucks here, 2 weeks for a quote lol, same product in KL quote in 24hrs.  the English having been in Malaysia makes a big difference.  another problem is a lot of companies want funds transferred into bank rather than just take a credit card.  totally archaic. 

[Bassosa]

16 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

If these companies are successful in Thailand why should they change? Only to have headache with foreigners who don't understand how things are supposed to be (from a Thai perspective)?

 

Over the years I did lots of small scale business with Thai companies and with companies in Thailand with a farang boss.

I seems sometimes Thai companies hire a farang because they think he will do a better job. And maybe he does a better job than Thais.

But then after a while maybe something has to be changed. For me it seems farang bosses know that time is money. They expect to get charged for service work. But it seems many Thai bosses somehow expect service free of charge. And that's the moment when the business relation stops because both parties (Thais and farangs) have different expectations. And I wouldn't say Thais who expect free service are wrong. That's what they are used to all their life, and then this farang comes and changes the Thai rules.

 

This is obviously different from selling products. But I am sure there will be on both sides expectations and at least some of those expectations will be very different - but never discussed. And then the problems start...

So I don't blame Thais if they are not keen on doing business with those strange farangs...

 

 

The OP was discussing import/export so internationally operating companies who deal with international clients and possibly compete with other international players...

 

You know.....like Thai Airways, who like doing things the "Thai way" as well. How's that working out for them?

Edited September 12, 2019 by Bassosa

[VocalNeal]

The OP must obviously be correct as his way of doing things is working so well. 

 

 

[NightSky]

My guess is that you should do business the Thai way meaning meet with someone higher up the food chain, take them and colleagues or family out for a slap up meal pay for it then offer to cross their palm with silver and gifts..

 

..then ask for a price, (the Thai way)

 

also youmight be disadvantaged not being thai (just like your buddies favouring you as a supplier the Thais might have their own Thai/Chinese buddies)

Edited September 12, 2019 by NightSky

[Autonuaq]

17 hours ago, DaRoadrunner said:

In my time here I have done business with Indians, (after shaking hands, count to see if you still have all your fingers), Taiwanese and Japanese. When I have tried to do anything with the Thais it has been a monumental f'up. I never figured out what is wrong with these people?

 

I also watch the Chinese do business here and never figured out how they do it?

 

This country can destroy you, mentally, physically and financially.

Most Chinese do business with the thai that are originally from China.

 

The problem is you have 'know people' then you can do business, this is not much different then in some countries in the west.

[luk AJ]

Really? Factory needs export license to sell internally? Must be some new law you just invented to make the post

No but your products need to be registered to sell locally.


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[Bassosa]

Just now, Autonuaq said:

Most Chinese do business with the thai that are originally from China.

 

The problem is you have 'know people' then you can do business, this is not much different then in some countries in the west.

Hmmmm, so if I call a shrimp vendor in Florida, I need to take his family out for dinner, offer a gift or two and then in a sly way ask for pricing?

OK got it.

[OneMoreFarang]

20 minutes ago, Bassosa said:

 

The OP was discussing import/export so internationally operating companies who deal with international clients and possibly compete with other international players...

 

You know.....like Thai Airways, who like doing things the "Thai way" as well. How's that working out for them?

They obviously don't compete with other international players.

Or maybe the OP does not convince them that he is a player...