Help with 2 year visitor visa UK - thai girlfriend.

[Colli]

Hello ,

 

I need some some advice regarding the above visa type. My partner lives in Bangkok and I live in England and have been in a relationship together for a while. I have visited her over in BKK a number of times and in the summer she came here for around 2 months. 

 

I have just returned from BKK and now we both want her to come to England for Christmas and have decided to go for the two year visitor visa with myself as her sponsor.  She has booked her flights already and will arrive in December and leave in January. 

 

My question first of all is - is this the right visa type in your expert opinion ? I have plans to marry but not yet and previously she has been to England on the 6 month visa types but it’s annoying to have to keep reapplying for her so a two year visa would give us more breathing space and flexibility I feel? 

 

Second question 

 

my my partner is very organised , has a good job and stable income with payslips , she works from home and plans to work while she is here in England ( for her Thai company during thai hours from her laptop ) - is this allowed on a technicality ? My partner had also evidenced greatly reasons to return to Thailand following the trip 

 

What do I need to consider when I am putting the forms together ? I have a stable job for the government, my own business, a house , proof of income, bank statements , relationship timeline, introduction letter and wage slips . She also has the same documentation  put together with also travel insurance and is including her flight ticket with this which includes a return flight. On previous occasions when I was not her sponsor she had to evidence what she was doing in England each day , however this time I am not planning on making a day to day itinerary , I work for emergency services and we are busy over Christmas and it’s busy and dynamic. 

 

thank you for your help. 

[rasg]

My wife (she is now) did exactly that back in 2015. NO issues at all. Six month visa issued in June which ran out on the 12th December. She applied for a 2 year VV in October to start on the 1st December. Your girlfriend didn't have to outline everything on a day to day basis for her first visa and neither do you. Just a basic outline is needed.

 

This is what I put in her second visa application.

We did originally request her current visitor visa to run from the beginning
of July but it actually started from the date of her visa submission so it
actually expires on the 12th December 2015. If this visa is granted, Pa will
arrive in the UK early in December 2015 and stay with me until the middle
of January. So far she has stayed in the UK for 18 weeks this and hopefully
adding another 6 weeks in December/January.

 

I also had one of my sisters write a letter inviting us for Christmas.

[Colli]

Ok thank you so much.

 

She is worried about it being rejected, and therefore we are both now overthinking things. but I can’t see that happening if we provide everything they ask for.  

 

 

[rasg]

She is not allowed to work at all on a visit visa. Online either but how would anybody know? If she was working in a restaurant, for example, there are big penalties for the restaurant and the person here on the VV will be sent home.

 

The general guideline is that she can’t spend more than six months here in a 12 month period. In July 2015 she came here for a month and ended up staying for 14 weeks. She came back on the 1st December and stayed for the rest of the six month allocation and flew back to Bangkok in the middle of February with all of the docs for a settlement visa. TB test next day. Visa appointment the following day. Visa granted after just over two weeks. It takes a lot longer now.

[theoldgit]

2 hours ago, rasg said:

The general guideline is that she can’t spend more than six months here in a 12 month period. 

Whilst most people assume that this is a rule, it isn't the case, it's not even a guidline, but the Entry Clearance Officer must be satisfied that the applicant isn't attempting to use regular visits with a standard visit visa to circumnavite the settlement route.

 

The longer term standard visit are designed for those who can demonstrate that they need to visit the UK regularly over a longer period, you can apply for a long-term Standard Visitor visa that lasts 2, 5 or 10 years. She can stay for a maximum of 6 months on each visit. I believe that the UKVI may be a little more relaxed over issuing a visa with a longer validity than they used to be, but keep in mind that if they decide to issue a visa with the shorter validity there's no refund of any of the extra cost, whilst I've never known this to happen, I believe it does occasionally. She may also have to satisfy the Border Force Officer at the UK Border that she's a genuine visitor and there have been no material changes to her cirmstances every time she lands in the UK, but you're right that a day to day itinerary isn't really required.

 

Rasg offers good advice regarding the work issue, she will not be allowed to work under any circumstances, and to menetion the online working would probably result in a refusal, though she would need to satisfy the ECO that her business commitments are covered during her extended absence.

[RichardColeman]

As said, she cannot work whilst in the UK - and that includes on line. My issue with her application would be would she have a  job to return to if she leaves Thailand for several months - AGAIN. I'd suggest a letter from her employer agreeing to her having this 2nd time away from the company and that her job is there for her return to 2nd time. Personally if I was immigration I would reject her application - you say she was in the uk for the summer for 2 months. Your suggesting to immigration that her company is ok with 2 months away in the summer and 2 months or so a couple months later. It sounds fishy - if only from the point of immigration asking what work she does - and your answer is online. As summer is just over you are wanting a new visa less than 1 month later or so after she has left. I honestly cannot see them granting a visa that quickly after a previous visit. That said I wish you well.

[brewsterbudgen]

As said, she cannot work whilst in the UK - and that includes on line. My issue with her application would be would she have a  job to return to if she leaves Thailand for several months - AGAIN. I'd suggest a letter from her employer agreeing to her having this 2nd time away from the company and that her job is there for her return to 2nd time. Personally if I was immigration I would reject her application - you say she was in the uk for the summer for 2 months. Your suggesting to immigration that her company is ok with 2 months away in the summer and 2 months or so a couple months later. It sounds fishy - if only from the point of immigration asking what work she does - and your answer is online. As summer is just over you are wanting a new visa less than 1 month later or so after she has left. I honestly cannot see them granting a visa that quickly after a previous visit. That said I wish you well.

I tend to agree. The work factor would seem to be a problem. Not many employers grant 2 months leave, and then do it again within the same year.

Sent from my SM-A500F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Colli]

Ok thank you for the responses and I will get the work aspect cleared up.

 

 

do you guys know what I need to provide for proof of employment ? I have my ID badge and wage slips , is that enough ? 

[7by7]

1 hour ago, Colli said:

do you guys know what I need to provide for proof of employment ? I have my ID badge and wage slips , is that enough ? 

 Your employment or the applicant's?

 

There is no requirement for you, the sponsor to be employed; so you don't need to provide any proof of employment.

 

But if you are paying for some or all of the trip then you do need to provide evidence that you can afford to do so. Bank statements showing the available funds should suffice for this. I recommend at least three months worth, the latest dated no more than 28 days before the application.

 

If relying on employment as a reason to return, the applicant should provide a letter from their employer on company headed paper confirming that she works for them, has been granted a leave of absence covering the period of her visit and that she will have her job kept open for her return.

 

This letter can either be in English or Thai with a certified English translation. The decision maker may wish to confirm it's contents with the signatory. If it's written in English they will doubt the letter's authenticity if that person cannot speak to them in English. If it's written in Thai then a Thai speaking member of staff will make the phone call.

[7by7]

7 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

As summer is just over you are wanting a new visa less than 1 month later or so after she has left. I honestly cannot see them granting a visa that quickly after a previous visit. That said I wish you well.

 If she has an acceptable reason for returning to the UK so soon, then this shouldn't be a problem. Big 'if' though!

 

It's her employment that'll be the main problem. She works online so presumably can do that in the UK and her employer won't have a problem with that. But UKVI will because, as you and others have said, doing any sort of work whilst in the UK as a visitor is not allowed.

[Colli]

Well she speaks fluent English so she writes the documents in English. She came over in April and stayed until June with me, we don’t like being apart too long and I went back in August to see her , now her reason for visit is Christmas and to spend New Years with me . Do you guys think we are getting the correct visa ?

 

 

i will let you all know the outcome, she has a return flight and a job , family ties etc to return to so I would assume that would be enough? Further more my job is very strict and I would lose my job potentially if I did not abide by the rules of the visa

[theoldgit]

Do you guys think we are getting the correct  Further more my job is very strict and I would lose my job potentially if I did not abide by the rules of the visa

 

In her circumstances the Standard Visit Visa is the only one available, but she seems to be spending a disproportionate time in the UK.

The Entry Clearance Officer will not be persuaded by the fact that you don’t want to spend too long apart.

I’m not sure what you mean when you that could lose your job if you didn’t abide by the visa rules, the entry and immigration requirements apply to your girlfriend not you, you are not responsible for her, and cannot be held

accountable if she overstays.

 

 

[7by7]

1 hour ago, Colli said:

Well she speaks fluent English so she writes the documents in English

So?

 

It is not her who will be writing her employer's letter, and it is not her that the decision maker will want to talk to about that letter.

[Colli]

Why is it considered to you disproportionate time in the UK for her ? Forgive me , I’m not being ignorant or rude this is new to me and seems normal? I visit Thailand 4 times a year For boxing and now to spend time with her - in total maybe 3 months a year. 

 

If your in my situation what would you do ? 

 

 

 

I think it would greatly affect my role if I was dishonest on the application that is all. 

[rasg]

17 hours ago, theoldgit said:

Whilst most people assume that this is a rule, it isn't the case, it's not even a guidline, but the Entry Clearance Officer must be satisfied that the applicant isn't attempting to use regular visits with a standard visit visa to circumnavite the settlement route.

We go round and round on this every time it is mentioned about the six months and I still think it's a good rule of thumb for most applicants applying for a visit visa. I have never heard of anybody staying for longer than six months on a visit visa and I have never heard of any consequences. When my wife (then GF) came to the UK for the 2nd visit having spent 14 weeks on her first visit, the border asked her how long she had spent on her first visit and warned her to "be careful".

[7by7]

2 hours ago, Colli said:

Why is it considered to you disproportionate time in the UK for her ? Forgive me , I’m not being ignorant or rude this is new to me and seems normal? I visit Thailand 4 times a year For boxing and now to spend time with her - in total maybe 3 months a year.

 

The UK and Thailand have very different rules.

 

As far as the UK is concerned, there is a rule that a visitor must not spend more than 6 months in the UK on any one visit, but nothing in the rules anything like "max 6 months out of 12." Just that a visitor must not use a visit visa to by-pass the settlement rules and live in the UK.

 

See "Frequent or successive visits: how to assess if an applicant is making the UK their main home or place of work" in the guidance to decision makers.

 

It is up to your girlfriend to convince the decision maker that this is not her intention. But as I said before

9 hours ago, 7by7 said:

It's her employment that'll be the main problem.

She has to show that her employer is willing to give her so much time off so often; particularly as most Thai employees get just two weeks holiday a year; if they're lucky!

 

2 hours ago, Colli said:

If your in my situation what would you do ?

As theoldgit has said, it's her application, not yours.

 

If she can convince the decision maker that she has a valid reason for visiting the UK so often and is not attempting to by-pass the settlement rules and that her employer will give her that much time off whilst keeping her job open for her, then go for it.

 

2 hours ago, Colli said:

I think it would greatly affect my role if I was dishonest on the application that is all. 

Don't see how; unless you are an ECO, Border Force officer or similar; in which case you should know the answers to the questions you've asked!
 

[Colli]

Ok thanks ???? this is hard work . 

 

So my partner is basically preparing all the documents as attached - has everyone done this ? Rasg?

[Colli]

59 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

If she can convince the decision maker that she has a valid reason for visiting the UK so often and is not attempting to by-pass the settlement rules and that her employer will give her that much time off whilst keeping her job open for her, then go for it.

How would she be bypassing it ? She wants a simple holiday here over Christmas . Is there a way people bypass it in the past ? 

 

 

[theoldgit]

13 hours ago, rasg said:

We go round and round on this every time it is mentioned about the six months and I still think it's a good rule of thumb for most applicants applying for a visit visa. I have never heard of anybody staying for longer than six months on a visit visa and I have never heard of any consequences. When my wife (then GF) came to the UK for the 2nd visit having spent 14 weeks on her first visit, the border asked her how long she had spent on her first visit and warned her to "be careful".

You may well regard it as a "good rule of thumb", or "general guidines"' however Entry Clearance and Border Force Officers work to specific guidlines published as an Operational Instruction by the Home Office, not a good rule of thumb or general guidlines.

 

I think you're aware of the insructions which the Home Office issue to their staff, and they are in the public domain, they are very clear when they state that "There is no specified maximum period which an individual can spend in the UK in any period such as ‘6 months in 12 months’. However, if it is clear from an individual’s travel history that they are making the UK their home you should refuse their application".

 

Staff are also instructed to consider "the purpose of the visit and intended length of stay stated, the number of visits made over the past 12 months, including the length of stay on each occasion, the time elapsed since the last visit, and if this amounts to the individual spending more time in the UK than in their home country and the purpose of return trips to the visitor’s home country and if this is used only to seek re-entry to the UK". 

 

I have known quite a few people who have overstayed their visit visas by a considerable time, it's a sad fact that visit visas are regarded by some as an easy and cost effective route to enter the UK as a visitor and disappear under the radar. The advice given to your wife by the Border Force Officer was, I suspect, well meant and meaningful. 

[theoldgit]

@Colli I don't know the source of your list of required documents, it's not 100% accurate, for instance applicants are specifically advised not to send details of car ownership, I've attached the official list.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/visitor-visa-guide-to-supporting-documents/guide-to-supporting-documents-visiting-the-uk

 

You've misread what 7by7 has said regarding the bypassing the settlement route, or as I mentioned circumnavigating the settlement route, it's a fact that some people attempt to enter the UK as a visitor and then attempt to return often within the validity of their visa, thus attempting to use the UK as their main home by "Frequent or successive visits". Entry Clearance Officers are required to assess if an applicant is making the UK their main home or place of work by such a route, and that's why we suspect your wife, with her travel patterns, might be subject to increased scrutiny.

 

You've come here for advice, you can take notice of the advice given, or ignore it, but please don't shoot the messengers.

[7by7]

5 hours ago, theoldgit said:

@Colli I don't know the source of your list of required documents, it's not 100% accurate, for instance applicants are specifically advised not to send details of car ownership, I've attached the official list.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/visitor-visa-guide-to-supporting-documents/guide-to-supporting-documents-visiting-the-uk

 

Indeed, @Colli, your list is over long and does contain items which are not required! We've all heard of cases where an ECO has refused an application because they've missed something vital buried in a mass of unrequired and useless paper!

 

Note that the official list is divided into four categories. Those relevant to your girlfriend being:

 

1. Documents you must provide – all visitors

 

2. Other documents you may want to provide – all visitors (my emphasis).

She doesn't need every document on this list, just those relevant to her.

 

4. Documents you should not send unless specifically requested.

If they want them, they'll ask for them. Note that several items on this list appear on your list as well! Throw your list away, use this one.

 

 

 

 

[CharlieB]

On 9/12/2019 at 9:34 PM, Colli said:

How would she be bypassing it ? She wants a simple holiday here over Christmas . Is there a way people bypass it in the past ? 

 

 

Bypassing the rules would be someone spending several months in the UK, then a few weeks back in Thailand, followed by several months in the UK and continuing like that through for the length of the visa. If the border official thinks this person is using a holiday visa to effectively live in the UK instead of applying for a settlement visa, they will refuse entry, or refuse to issue another visit visa.

[UKresonant]

On ‎9‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 3:17 PM, Colli said:

do you guys know what I need to provide for proof of employment ? I have my ID badge and wage slips , is that enough ? 

I think I included 6 months pay slips, together with the 6 months of bank statements showing me receiving that net salary, with the wife's 10year visitor visa application.

[7by7]

As said previously, there is no requirement for the sponsor of a visit visa applicant to be employed, so there is no requirement for the sponsor to provide any proof of employment.

 

Indeed, there is no need to have a sponsor at all!

 

However, if an applicant does have a sponsor and that sponsor is paying for part or all of the trip then they do need to show that they can afford to do so. I have only ever provided bank statements for this, and have never included pay slips. 

[CaptainNemo]

On 9/12/2019 at 5:52 AM, rasg said:

She is not allowed to work at all on a visit visa. Online either ...

If she's not "working in the UK" and not in the UK tax system, I don't see an issue. The visa is issued partly on the basis of having and maintaining ties to Thailand, and work is one of those ties. She is not taking a job from a UK citizen, and not being paid by a UK employer into a UK bank account. Does she use a good VPN?

[7by7]

10 minutes ago, CaptainNemo said:

If she's not "working in the UK" and not in the UK tax system, I don't see an issue. The visa is issued partly on the basis of having and maintaining ties to Thailand, and work is one of those ties. She is not taking a job from a UK citizen, and not being paid by a UK employer into a UK bank account. Does she use a good VPN?

 Doesn't matter; standard visit visa holders are not allowed to do any work in the UK; except voluntary work for a UK registered charity as long as they are doing that work for a maximum of 30 days.

 

Advising people to break the conditions of their visa is easy to do from your keyboard; but you're not the one who will suffer the consequences if they're caught!

Edited September 16, 2019 by 7by7
Typo

[Colli]

Can someone pelase advise of me the following. How much money do I need to evidence in my bank account? For some reason she thinks £5000 minimum. This is fine but from what people on this forum say , I should be sending bank statements?

 

I have provided the following.

 

- Intro letter - (Sponsor letter)

- 6 months wage slips

- 6 months bank statements

- proof of employment

- Proof of address ( contract )

- Photos of my property

- passport

 

She has sent all the above also along with iteniary

 

Again, I stress this is a 2 year visitor visa and she has put me as her sponser. Thank you

 

 

 

[rasg]

£5000 minimum is not right at all. There is no set figure. You need to show you have sufficient funds to pay for the trip. If you are staying in 5 star hotels the amount needed will be very different than staying in your house with the odd takeaway.

[Jip99]

On 9/12/2019 at 9:34 PM, Colli said:

How would she be bypassing it ? She wants a simple holiday here over Christmas . Is there a way people bypass it in the past ? 

 

 

 

 

If she wants a simple holiday over Xmas then the 6 month standard visit visa seems most appropriate.

 

Unless you are seeking to maximize her stay in the UK the 2 year visa does not represent good value.

 

The 6 month visa is easy to obtain with minimal documentation, doing one a year is more cost effective: your GF is in Bangkok, fluent in English so the application process will be a breeze.

 

6 month cost $ 122

 

2 year cost $ 464

 

5 year cost $ 841

 

10 year cost $ 1,055