Farage says Brexit will be delayed again when PM Johnson's deal falls

[nauseus]

36 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

You keep trying to push the agenda that the majority of people voted Leave because of the EU Superstate (and the corporations it is behest to), and 'losing' sovereignty and I have no doubt this might be your own personal main reason, but as can be seen very clearly by many, many Brexit posters on this forum the actual main reason was immigration.

 

Whether it's Yogi100 spouting such nugget gems as 'The main one was unwanted immigration and its negative effects on life in the UK for its native population......'  to Captain Nemo and his '...but England is full and there's not much space left for tribal reservations for the ethnic English' it's VERY clear to most that the economic ramifications and question of sovereignty are mere side notes to your average Brexit fan as the main topic of keeping Johnny Foreigner out is what really motivates them.

 

Again, not accusing you personally of this but if you look at many of the points brought up by your fellow Brexit fans on Thai Visa, there is a huge amount of xenophobia and downright racism. 

Sovereignty was and is the main reason for the vote as far as I sense and have seen on here. Some of the people you talk about are relatively new contributors to these Brexit threads. 

 

That the racist card has been increasingly and unfairly dealt out by some of your fellow remainers has not helped - this is resented by many leavers, including myself - and to be anti uncontrolled immigration does not necessarily equate to being a racist. Immigration is evidently a concern to many of us but mainly due to the stress that it puts onto the UK capacity to accommodate it. I know that this is not all due to the EU but their freedom of movement "pillar" means that that the UK cannot plan well enough in advance to cope with demand for housing, transport education and medical care because the numbers are not known far enough in advance. The EU creates rules easily but does not provide solutions to popular destination countries like the UK, for example. The bills for all this are paid by the UK, not the EU.

[Blue Muton]

11 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Sovereignty was and is the main reason for the vote as far as I sense and have seen on here. Some of the people you talk about are relatively new contributors to these Brexit threads. 

 

That the racist card has been increasingly and unfairly dealt out by some of your fellow remainers has not helped - this is resented by many leavers, including myself - and to be anti uncontrolled immigration does not necessarily equate to being a racist. Immigration is evidently a concern to many of us but mainly due to the stress that it puts onto the UK capacity to accommodate it. I know that this is not all due to the EU but their freedom of movement "pillar" means that that the UK cannot plan well enough in advance to cope with demand for housing, transport education and medical care because the numbers are not known far enough in advance. The EU creates rules easily but does not provide solutions to popular destination countries like the UK, for example. The bills for all this are paid by the UK, not the EU.

Well put but you still seem to be missing the point about EU migrants being net contributors, they foot their own bill.... and more. As for planning by UK government, what have you been watching for the past few years, they're more interested in dismantling than building - except when it comes to building up the bank balances of the few.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Blue Muton
typo

[7by7]

6 hours ago, Blue Muton said:

<snip>

They can't. If they fail to find work within three months their right to benefits ceases.

 Not quite.

 

From Migration and welfare benefits (By 'EEA' they mean EU and EEA)

 

Quote

Various measures have been introduced since 2013 to restrict welfare access for EEA citizens who are not working. In particular, new measures mean that EEA jobseekers:

• Cannot claim means-tested Jobseekers Allowance (JSA), child benefit, or child tax credit within the first three months of arriving in the UK.
• Lose eligibility for JSA if they are still looking for work after a further three months, unless they can give 'compelling evidence of a genuine prospect' being hired, such as a written job offer.
• Cannot claim housing benefit.

 

For more details, see this Home Office guidance.

 

So @yogi100's claims are even more nonsensical than you thought!

[7by7]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

I didn't say that he UK government is not lobbied and influenced by major international corporations. I just don't want to talk to you. It's always painful. Ouch! There it goes again!

 You said: "The EU is heavily lobbied and influenced by major multinational corporations. Looks like you missed this plus all the main reasons the majority really voted Leave."

 

I pointed out that Brexit will not change this because the British government, like all governments, is also lobbied thusly, and always has been!

 

An issue you attempted at first to dodge. 

 

A truth you find painful; as you do all the other truths which show your arguments to be false.

Edited September 19, 2019 by 7by7

[nauseus]

11 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

Well put but you still seem to be missing the point about EU migrants being net contributors, they foot their own bill.... and more. As for planning by UK government, what have you been watching for the past few years, they're more interested in dismantling than building - except when it comes to building up the bank balances of the few.

You seem to have two points there, both of which having no supporting evidence.

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

Indeed; the truth hurts!

See what I mean?

[7by7]

Just now, nauseus said:

See what I mean?

 I edited that post while you were typing; you may want to respond to that edit.

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, 7by7 said:

 I edited that post while you were typing; you may want to respond to that edit.

No. Now you accuse me of dodging. I was just ignoring. Ignoring is not necessarily the same as dodging. I hereby reserve the right to ignore you whenever I choose.

 

Same response.
 

No need to reply. Thanks in advance.

[7by7]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

No. Now you accuse me of dodging. I was just ignoring. Ignoring is not necessarily the same as dodging. I hereby reserve the right to ignore you whenever I choose.

 

Same response.
 

No need to reply. Thanks in advance.

 

The truth does indeed hurt you, which is why you ignore it whenever you can!

 

You can ponder that for a while as I have to leave for work now.

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

The truth does indeed hurt you, which is why you ignore it whenever you can!

 

You can ponder that for a while as I have to leave for work now.

Same response. 

[Laughing Gravy]

18 minutes ago, nauseus said:

No. Now you accuse me of dodging. I was just ignoring. Ignoring is not necessarily the same as dodging. I hereby reserve the right to ignore you whenever I choose.

 

Same response.
 

No need to reply. Thanks in advance.

He has been on my ignore list for months and I have to say, it was a great decision. Discussing as an adult is something that poster just can't do.

[Blue Muton]

33 minutes ago, nauseus said:

You seem to have two points there, both of which having no supporting evidence.

There is ample evidence that EU migrants are net contributors to the UK, it's not my fault that you nhave chosen to remain ignorant on the subject. Try researching for yourself.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Blue Muton

[Rookiescot]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

The gov has a mandate to leave. That is the will of the people and that's all it said on the ballot paper. There was not vote on transferring into membership of the EEA, either.

The option to vote for leave on the ballot paper was to indicate if you agreed with what the leave campaign had said.

It was not to vote for a no deal brexit and then declare that everyone who voted leave voted for the form of leave that YOU want.

Stop hijacking other peoples votes in order to try and further your own extreme brexit preference.

[CaptainNemo]

16 hours ago, 7by7 said:

You have been shown time and time again that your so called " unnecessary strain on housing, employment and other essential services" is a myth. Yet you keep repeating it!

The idea that the strain on housing and unemployment and other essential services is a myth, is a myth.

It really is a strain, it really isn't a myth, and it really is a large part of why people voted leave.

I'm not going to spend time posting loads of graphs and data, because you should read up for yourself.

[CaptainNemo]

32 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

There is ample evidence that EU migrants are net contributors to the UK, it's not my fault that you nhave chosen to remain ignorant on the subject. Try researching for yourself.

There is a key difference, many of them live in temporary housing - like several to a house. They are not living as the locals do. It is exploitative labour, which yes, they volunteer for, but it undermines over 200 years of labour rights that were fought and died for, and so Labour being pro-EU is treated with contempt in working class areas, often in the north of England, who voted strongly for Leave.

 

Corbyn as a long-time opponent of the EU, probably understands this, and his strategy for not alienating Labour's traditional vote is to avoid having a meaningful position on the EU and abstain from General Elections, apparently to appease the wealthy middleclass university types that hijacked the Labour party in the 1990s and wrecked Britain with their diversity agenda and historically unprecedented mass immigration that has more than doubled the cost of living in the UK and undermined over 200 years of labour rights,.

 

You couldn't get much more cynical and exploitative really, and to watch them using millionaire's money to undermine the votes of their most disenfranchised voters, is particularly despicable. It was Jarrow, the home of the Jarrow march that voted most strongly for Leave, and if Labour is used by people who belong in the LibDems to betray the working classes like this, it's Labour that will face a tsunami in the next General Election.

 

The big lie politics of "people don't want to do x jobs" coming out of the mouths of Labour people, when they should be saying is "increase the wages so that native people can work and support their families" is utterly odious. The other big lie about "the NHS would collapse without immigration" has nothing much to do with the EU, as there's no shortage of available qualified staff from outside the EU, and many unemployed young people would gladly be taken on and trained up for job.

 

All the pro-EU rhetoric about free movement of Labour comes across as capitalist corporate whining to keep labour costs low. What £50,000/year middleclass LibDem voter wants to pay for an English plumber's wage when they can undercut him by paying a foreigner a lower wage? That demeans both service providers... why shouldn't the foreigner be paid the same? Why should the foreigner be able to just work without a work permit? Australia doesn't allow it's workers to be undermined by lower-living cost neighbours, and that's hardly a "right wing" state.

 

Half the problem with the anti-brexit lefty lobby is that they never seem to be honest, and when challenged they seem to tend to make personal attacks and smears very quickly. They lost the vote despite a huge amount of establishment "support", because their case was weak, and made poorly.

They created the situation themselves with their behaviour since the 1990s, and have steadly moved away from the working classes and seem to favour supporting foreigners and foreign interests and the expense of locals, and have created more and more reasons for people to see EU membership as not in their interests.

[MRToMRT]

On 9/16/2019 at 11:14 PM, Basil B said:

Nigel Farage walks into a pub and says, I'll have a pint of beer please. The barman pours a pint, then throws it all over Farage.

'What did you do that for?' says Farage, drenched to the skin.

'Because you're in a metaphor which illustrates the stupidity of asking for something but not stipulating how you <deleted> wanted it delivered, you frog-faced sniveling cant!'

'But I'm still thirsty, so I want a pint -- this time in a glass!' says Farage.

'You can't ask again!' said the barman.

'Why not?' sniveled Farage.

'Democracy.' says the barman.

 

 

 

 

 

This one is one of my favorites ........

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2019 by MRToMRT

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Blue Muton said:

There is ample evidence that EU migrants are net contributors to the UK, it's not my fault that you nhave chosen to remain ignorant on the subject. Try researching for yourself.

Even if they are (and I somehow doubt that), who contributes what was not my claim, nor point. What is ignorant, is that you have insulted me again, without good reason. 

[Blue Muton]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

Even if they are (and I somehow doubt that), who contributes what was not my claim, nor point. What is ignorant, is that you have insulted me again, without good reason. 

I didn't insult you. I said you seem to be ignorant about the contribution of EU migrantrs. Rather than check your facts (and making yourself aware, rather than choose to remain ignorant of the facts), you falsely claim that I've insulted you.

 

While you're checking on the facts of EU migrants you might also check the definition of ignorant, you might then learn that my use of the word as an observation is indeed with good reason.

[nauseus]

8 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

I didn't insult you. I said you seem to be ignorant about the contribution of EU migrantrs. Rather than check your facts (and making yourself aware, rather than choose to remain ignorant of the facts), you falsely claim that I've insulted you.

 

While you're checking on the facts of EU migrants you might also check the definition of ignorant, you might then learn that my use of the word as an observation is indeed with good reason.

There you go again.  

[Slip]

1 hour ago, CaptainNemo said:

The idea that the strain on housing and unemployment and other essential services is a myth, is a myth.

It really is a strain, it really isn't a myth, and it really is a large part of why people voted leave.

I'm not going to spend time posting loads of graphs and data, because you should read up for yourself.

So you make a claim, and then refuse to offer anything to back it up.  It therefore lacks credibility.  There is a parallel here with claims having being made that immigrants are a net contributor to the UK.  The difference is that those claims have been repeatedly been backed up by those who made them.  Brexiteers have gone on to ridicule those claims through anecdotal (at best) "evidence" or unsubstantiated opinion in its place.  This is the stuff of propaganda. 

[Blue Muton]

22 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Even if they are (and I somehow doubt that), who contributes what was not my claim, nor point. 

Your post #187 would suggest differently, remember, when you disputed the fact that EU migrants are net contributors after I refuted your incorrect claim that "the UK" somehow subsidises them. 

[Blue Muton]

  2 hours ago, Blue Muton said:

There is ample evidence that EU migrants are net contributors to the UK........

 

30 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Even if they are (and I somehow doubt that).......

 

From The FT:

European migrants paid substantially more in taxes to the government than they took in benefits or public services in 2016-17. The report estimated that European migrants made a total contribution of £4.7bn to the public finances in 2016-17. “There is no doubt that EEA migrants are paying more in taxes than they receive in benefits,” it said.

 

An average adult migrant from one of the original 13 EU member states (excluding the UK and Ireland) contributed £3,740 more to Britain’s exchequer than an average UK citizen; an eastern European migrant accession countries paid an average of £1,040 more. Richer, younger migrants with fewer children were of greatest financial benefit. The research showed that young employees earning £50,000, for example, paid £20,000 more in taxes than they received in state spending.

 

Link: https://www.ft.com/content/797f7b42-bb44-11e8-94b2-17176fbf93f5

 

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, Blue Muton said:

Your post #187 would suggest differently, remember, when you disputed the fact that EU migrants are net contributors after I refuted your incorrect claim that "the UK" somehow subsidises them. 

I have never said that the UK somehow subsidises them (EU migrants). You should talk to someone else about that. 

[Loiner]

Pure propaganda and total ball licks. You and the FT should be ashamed for spreading such nonsense. To coin a phrase, it’s Fake News.
Remainer trickery and manipulation of the figures, like you try to do with the referendum result.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, Blue Muton said:

  2 hours ago, Blue Muton said:

There is ample evidence that EU migrants are net contributors to the UK........

 

 

From The FT:

European migrants paid substantially more in taxes to the government than they took in benefits or public services in 2016-17. The report estimated that European migrants made a total contribution of £4.7bn to the public finances in 2016-17. “There is no doubt that EEA migrants are paying more in taxes than they receive in benefits,” it said.

 

An average adult migrant from one of the original 13 EU member states (excluding the UK and Ireland) contributed £3,740 more to Britain’s exchequer than an average UK citizen; an eastern European migrant accession countries paid an average of £1,040 more. Richer, younger migrants with fewer children were of greatest financial benefit. The research showed that young employees earning £50,000, for example, paid £20,000 more in taxes than they received in state spending.

 

Link: https://www.ft.com/content/797f7b42-bb44-11e8-94b2-17176fbf93f5

 

The last example here is rather suspect: are 50k salaries really taxed at more than 40%?? People can read various accounts of benefits (or not) of EU workers contributions to the UK economy, and there are many. They can then form their own opinion. Well paid EU workers may well pay in more than they take out but I remain sceptical about the overall benefit to the UK. It's not just a question of tax revenue. 

Edited September 19, 2019 by nauseus

[Blue Muton]

19 minutes ago, nauseus said:

I have never said that the UK somehow subsidises them (EU migrants). You should talk to someone else about that. 

Then what did you mean by this?

 

the UK cannot plan well enough in advance to cope with demand for housing, transport education and medical care because the numbers are not known far enough in advance. The EU creates rules easily but does not provide solutions to popular destination countries like the UK, for example. The bills for all this are paid by the UK, not the EU.

[johnnybangkok]

So here it is. 

Facts and figures continually refute many of the Brexit argument. Whether it happens to be EU nationals putting a strain on resources or the Uk losing its sovereignty. We have proven in this thread and many other threads this just isn’t the case. Polish people taking your job? Just not true (but if it affects you personally then, yeah we get it). The EU making laws that negate UK law? Again just not true. 

The point all you Brexit lot miss is what kind of message are you sending out to future generations. Is that we cannot assimilate others into our society? Is it that we are divided by our differences rather than united by our common goals? Is that the color of your skin or your religious preferences dictate how you are as an individual? That the small minority of individuals taking advantage have a louder voice than those who are genuinely trying their best to make a better future for themselves and their family. 

You are on the wrong side of history with your myopic, self centered idea of how the world should progress. Brexit divides it doesn’t unite. It says that I’m happier going back in history rather than embrace a more optimistic future. 

This is why we don’t like what you are doing. This is why we will fight as long as it takes. 

[nauseus]

6 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

Then what did you mean by this?

 

the UK cannot plan well enough in advance to cope with demand for housing, transport education and medical care because the numbers are not known far enough in advance. The EU creates rules easily but does not provide solutions to popular destination countries like the UK, for example. The bills for all this are paid by the UK, not the EU.

I think that this is self-explanatory. The extra facilities and services required for all these extra freely moving people need advance planning and substantial capital investment. The only provider of these vast sums of money can be the UK government, which has a deficit as it is but needs then to borrow more. Any net tax revenue benefit from EU workers would never even pay the interest on these loans for these projects, which never keep pace with demand. If the number of arrivals is variable, then how can plans and budgets be done accurately anway?

 

 

[nauseus]

5 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

So here it is. 

Facts and figures continually refute many of the Brexit argument. Whether it happens to be EU nationals putting a strain on resources or the Uk losing its sovereignty. We have proven in this thread and many other threads this just isn’t the case. Polish people taking your job? Just not true (but if it affects you personally then, yeah we get it). The EU making laws that negate UK law? Again just not true. 

The point all you Brexit lot miss is what kind of message are you sending out to future generations. Is that we cannot assimilate others into our society? Is it that we are divided by our differences rather than united by our common goals? Is that the color of your skin or your religious preferences dictate how you are as an individual? That the small minority of individuals taking advantage have a louder voice than those who are genuinely trying their best to make a better future for themselves and their family. 

You are on the wrong side of history with your myopic, self centered idea of how the world should progress. Brexit divides it doesn’t unite. It says that I’m happier going back in history rather than embrace a more optimistic future. 

This is why we don’t like what you are doing. This is why we will fight as long as it takes. 

 

If you had won any arguments then I would have more drinking time. UK resources are badly stretched and the influx from the EU is one of the reasons for that. The UK lost a chunk of sovereignty when Heath signed up to the Treaty of Rome - more and more has been lost with each EU treaty since - you cannot prove any different. EU law has primacy over any similar or conflicting UK law.

 

The point all you remainer lot miss is that we are trying to preserve our birthright and country intact to pass on to our future generations. Others can assimilate into our society, if they are so inclined; that has always been the way in the UK.

 

Our common goals are obviously different.

 

Then your post degenerates into insults, so I can't be bothered with the rest.

 

Make sure to have a lovely evening! 

[Chomper Higgot]

18 minutes ago, nauseus said:

I think that this is self-explanatory. The extra facilities and services required for all these extra freely moving people need advance planning and substantial capital investment. The only provider of these vast sums of money can be the UK government, which has a deficit as it is but needs then to borrow more. Any net tax revenue benefit from EU workers would never even pay the interest on these loans for these projects, which never keep pace with demand. If the number of arrivals is variable, then how can plans and budgets be done accurately anway?

 

 

So you’ve identified the UK’s failure to undertake the advance planning and preparation for the growing population but fail to understand that importing young, healthy, tax paying workers that were educated and trained at the expense of other nations is a boon to the national coffers.

 

I do however take note of this sudden interest in planning and preparation, something of a surprise coming from a Brexiteer.