EU Council will be too late to negotiate Brexit deal: French source

[JonnyF]

13 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Ok.

And with different laws, custom, etc. where would you put the border?

Or do you imagine that without any border there wouldn't be smugglers, people who cross the border illegally, etc.?

I'd have a customs checkpoint a few miles away from the border. You're never going to be able to 100% stop people crossing borders illegally or smuggling, any more than Thailand can stop people crossing over the hundreds of kms of border that separate Thailand from Cambodia, Laos or Myanmar with a suitcase/boat full of contraband.

 

We already have different VAT rates, currency etc. between the North and the Republic. Different rates on certain goods wouldn't be as big an issue as some are pretending, especially if the trade deal was comprehensive. After all, a free trade deal would negate the need for too many checks.

 

 

 

[puipuitom]

22 hours ago, Basil B said:

True... but:

Brexit: MEPs overwhelmingly vote to support Article 50 extension should UK request one 

There is nothing the UK can before October 31st to get an agreement...

Although it is up to the leaders to agree, the resolution supporting an extension by MEP's is a good indicator that we will get it.  

Only one little tiny problem: it is NOT the Eur Parliament, who decides for a Brexit extention, but the EU Council, consisting out of the leaders of Government of the EU member states.

Second: ALL have to agree. One against = end of extensions. With 126 against = 18%... of 27 member states would be calculatively 5 against. Bye-bye.

[puipuitom]

22 hours ago, kingdong said:

Was obvious they were going to be awkward,just like they,beenfor the last 42 years.no deals better than a bad deal,these colours don,t run.

Correct. Finally import duty about everything from the Uk into the EU as WTO-rules, and Schengen visa for all "third country" visitors as the UK will be after 31 Oct. Good deal for the EU.

[david555]

10 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

Only one little tiny problem: it is NOT the Eur Parliament, who decides for a Brexit extention, but the EU Council, consisting out of the leaders of Government of the EU member states.

Second: ALL have to agree. One against = end of extensions. With 126 against = 18%... of 27 member states would be calculatively 5 against. Bye-bye.

Is in that E.U. council of leaders the U.K. present ?…. And do they have voting right on themselves …?

[puipuitom]

19 hours ago, bangrak said:

Allow me to add, there is/was/has been a deal, negotiated between the UK Government and the EU authorities, which was agreed on by both sides, end of story. ...Was it not that the leave camp 'traitors' inside the Conservative party (yes, these are the real ones!) voted against the deal negotiated by their own Conservative Government! This should not, never, be forgotten!

You forget a little tiny part: "and all other 27 EU member states agreed with it". 

But seen all accusations amoung the British about "traitors", time the British enjoy some time outside the EU.  

And after, the EU can negotiate the conditions of a new membership. 

[puipuitom]

8 hours ago, blazes said:

 

Well, perhaps it would have been better to have held your tongue, since the label "sick man of Europe" was originally awarded to the Ottoman Empire courtesy of the much sicker man of Europe, Tsar Nicholas (of Winter Palace massacre fame).

When the label was applied to the UK it was in fact used by the Tories to get rid of Wilson and Callaghan's Labour Party.  (Though the Tories of Harold Macmillan's day were hardly examples of youth and energy.)

 

If anyone deserves a mention for the present healthy state of the Brit economy it is not the Brussels buffoons but dear old Maggie Thatcher, who radically changed the country round in the late 80s, not always for the better.

Time (again) to read first, and talk/write afterwards

•  

  Why was the UK considered “the sick man of Europe” in the 1970s ...

  https://www.quora.com/Why-was-the-UK-considered-“the-sick-man-of-Europe”-in-the-1970s
  The term “Sick man of Europe” was used by the media to impress ... Throughout the 1970s there was a great deal of political unrest in the U...

• Britain is once again the sick man of Europe | Financial Times

  https://www.ft.com/content/5a629584-610a-11e9-a27a-fdd51850994c
  18 Apr 2019 ... Britain is once again the sick man of Europe ... and “people from anywhere”, as David Goodhart defines it in his book, The Road to Somewhere.

• Britain: back to being the sick man of Europe? - That 1970s show

  https://www.economist.com/buttonwoods-notebook/2017/07/19/britain-back-to-being-the-sick-man-of-europe
  19 Jul 2017 ... Co

• Japan's richest man fears Brexit could turn UK into 'sick man of Europe'

  https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/19/business/tadashi-yanai-fast-retailing-uniqlo/index.html
  1 day ago ... London (CNN Business) Japan's richest man has warned that Brexit is " practically impossible" and could take the United Kingdom back to the ...

• Britain is the “sick man” of Europe again - UK Uncensored

  https://ukuncensored.com/britain-is-the-sick-man-of-europe-again/
  20 Apr 2019 ... I'd like your opinion on the most pressing problem of our time. It's a difficult and important question so first, please read what follows carefully…

• How Brexit has made Britain the new sick man of Europe

  https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/economy/2017/10/how-brexit-has-made-britain-new-sick-man-europe
  27 Oct 2017 ... Britain became known as “the sick man of Europe” – a label first .... been greater: Britain imported £22bn from the EU but exported just £14bn.

• 'Britain is fast becoming the sick man of Europe' – experts debate ...

  https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/24/britain-is-fast-becoming-the-sick-man-of-europe-experts-debate-brexit-data
  24 Jul 2017 ... 'Britain is fast becoming the sick man of Europe' – experts debate Brexit data ... I keep waiting for the good news that the Brexiters told us would ...

[puipuitom]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

EU flag must have drifted away! ????

Comments posted like from you make me happy we finally get rid of the British / English from the EU. 

[david555]

Daniel Boffey and Jennifer Rankin in Brussels

Fri 20 Sep 2019 11.13 BST

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/20/fresh-brexit-talks-row-uk-eu-proposals-secret

Fresh Brexit talks row as UK asks EU to keep its proposals secret

Downing Street tells Brussels negotiators documents must not be shared with 27 states

 

Downing Street’s secrecy over its “underwhelming” Brexit proposals has caused a fresh rupture in the negotiations in Brussels.

 

The row centres on a demand that the EU’s negotiating team treat a long-awaited cache of documents outlining the UK’s latest ideas as “Her Majesty’s government property”.

 

The European commission team was told by Whitehall that the three “confidential” papers it had sent on Thursday evening should not be distributed to Brexit delegates representing the EU’s 27 other member states.

 

more...

Edited September 20, 2019 by david555

[candide]

45 minutes ago, david555 said:

Is in that E.U. council of leaders the U.K. present ?…. And do they have voting right on themselves …?

UK is part of it, but not when the decisions are about Brexit

[david555]

2 minutes ago, candide said:

UK is part of it, but not when the decisions are about Brexit

Thanks as I thought of a possible can of worms could open depending the outcome of Westminster saga ….

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

I'd have a customs checkpoint a few miles away from the border. You're never going to be able to 100% stop people crossing borders illegally or smuggling, any more than Thailand can stop people crossing over the hundreds of kms of border that separate Thailand from Cambodia, Laos or Myanmar with a suitcase/boat full of contraband.

 

We already have different VAT rates, currency etc. between the North and the Republic. Different rates on certain goods wouldn't be as big an issue as some are pretending, especially if the trade deal was comprehensive. After all, a free trade deal would negate the need for too many checks.

Thanks for your answer.

So we agree there will be border control points, correct?

And if the goods have different standards (maybe chicken from the USA) then there will also be control points to check the goods, correct?

 

And the problem with that future trade deal is that if the UK would accept exactly the same standard like the EU then there would be really a free trade. But as far as I understand the UK wants to have different standards, correct?

And different standards (i.e. chlorinated chicken) need controls.

And as far as I see leaving the EU and keeping exactly the same standards like the EU is not what the UK wants. 

So what do they want?

 

All same -> no border.

Not same -> border.

And if there is a border it's only a question of where. And as far as I know that's the difficult point because people want to keep the Good Friday agreement and the peace.

 

Personally I remember the "troubles" but not the details. I don't know if a (strict) border would soon bring trouble again or not. But I know it's important for many people to make sure there is peace and no trouble.

[nauseus]

5 hours ago, puipuitom said:

Comments posted like from you make me happy we finally get rid of the British / English from the EU. 

You missed the dig but the feeling is mutual, I'm sure.

Edited September 20, 2019 by nauseus

[aright]

6 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Interesting.

 

So lets imagine the UK and EU separate without a deal. And then?

Will they always trade according to WTO rules?

What about the EU citizens who currently live in the UK?

And what about the UK citizens who live in the EU?

Should the UK citizens in the EU keep their rights? Or should the EU just tell them to go home within 3 month?

 

The problem with all those little details is that they just don't go away. There is no clean break - even if people want it.

The people in the UK want the cleanest break possible but are not anticipating there won't be any blood on the floor.

What we Leavers want is to be supreme and sovereign, making our own decisions and way in the world not indebted to someone else. This sounds like a "good deal" to us.

"Making our own decisions" answers all your questions. You may not agree with all the answers but that's the way government works. To participate in a democratic event by casting a vote, only then to attempt to subvert the result, shows a complete lack of principle and integrity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[elliss]

12 hours ago, Victornoir said:

You have no argument except hatred and insult.

Fortunately, you do not represent the British as a whole

 

 That said , his vote is as good, or as bad as yours ..

 

 

Edited September 20, 2019 by elliss

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, elliss said:

That said , his vote is as good, or as bad as yours ..

His vote is probably better than my vote, as I never use it.

[beautifulthailand99]

22 hours ago, Loiner said:

No. The traitors were the PM and those who allowed themselves to submit to the Merkel/May Surrender Treaty. We won’t forget that the ERG forced the collaborators to reveal the AG’s office legal opinion that we could be tied to the EU for ever. Even the LAB side voted against that trick deal.

As you and Dad's army slip into your dotage you'll probably even forget your name never mind the complications of a not to be signed 550 page BRINO so called Withdrawal Agreement.  But whilst you can Nigel will cheer your heart as he does his pantomime shows up and down the country to the sadly lost.

[beautifulthailand99]

1 hour ago, aright said:

The people in the UK want the cleanest break possible but are not anticipating there won't be any blood on the floor.

What we Leavers want is to be supreme and sovereign, making our own decisions and way in the world not indebted to someone else. This sounds like a "good deal" to us.

"Making our own decisions" answers all your questions. You may not agree with all the answers but that's the way government works. To participate in a democratic event by casting a vote, only then to attempt to subvert the result, shows a complete lack of principle and integrity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

No they don't at best 25% of the 'British People' want no deal which is about double the numbers that thought the moon landings were fake. 

[beautifulthailand99]

8 hours ago, JonnyF said:

I hope not.

 

I said months ago that the backstop was a clever distraction. "Hey everyone, look over here at this terrible backstop, no need to look over there at all the other terrible parts of the WA."

 

Then at the final hour, the EU can pretend to have compromised by removing the backstop which was never required in the first place. 

 

A good negotiating tactic, I just hope the UK doesn't fall for it and makes a clean break.

Good thinking vote for Nigel and his clean break and get all your mates fired up as well. We are depending upon it (see avatar).

 

 

Edited September 20, 2019 by beautifulthailand99

[Forethat]

26 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

No they don't at best 25% of the 'British People' want no deal which is about double the numbers that thought the moon landings were fake. 

Lousy comparison. If posters on here are representative of the average British remainer, at best 25% of them are aware of the moon landings to begin with...

Edited September 20, 2019 by Forethat

[bristolboy]

13 minutes ago, Forethat said:

Lousy comparison. If posters on here are representative of the average British remainer, at best 25% of them are aware of the moon landings to begin with...

'Another pointless all purpose insulting generalizations about remainers. Nothing actually germane to the issues at hand. I'm not going to make generalizations about Brexiters making clueless comments just because you do.

[Forethat]

3 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

'Another pointless all purpose insulting generalizations about remainers. Nothing actually germane to the issues at hand. I'm not going to make generalizations about Brexiters making clueless comments just because you do.

Actually, last time the moon landing was mentioned remainers on here were unaware of the fact that it had happened. So not a generalisation. Fact.

[Loiner]

As you and Dad's army slip into your dotage you'll probably even forget your name never mind the complications of a not to be signed 550 page BRINO so called Withdrawal Agreement.  But whilst you can Nigel will cheer your heart as he does his pantomime shows up and down the country to the sadly lost.

It will be a long time till I reach my dotage and will be voting against the EU and leftism at every opportunity long after that.

Nigel continues to cheer my heart every time I watch him sticking it into the whole of the EU. I’ll have to settle for him in just the UK Parliament soon, but I’m sure he’ll give us plenty of great shows giving Comrade Corbyn what for.

[oldhippy]

12 minutes ago, Forethat said:

Actually, last time the moon landing was mentioned remainers on here were unaware of the fact that it had happened. So not a generalisation. Fact.

Very true. Very very true! Very very irrefutably true!!

 

And could you believe that some remainers even doubted that EU contributions are calculated on the lenght of a country's seaborder ?

There are even remainers who think brexiteers should not post from government computers during working hours, as this would be a theft of taxpayers' money.

 

PS: an overwhelming majority (52%) of the people that inhabit the moon want a no deal brexit.

[beautifulthailand99]

1 hour ago, Forethat said:

Lousy comparison. If posters on here are representative of the average British remainer, at best 25% of them are aware of the moon landings to begin with...

No one on Thai Visa is representative of anything other than they like going to Thailand a lot (nudge, wink) eh..say no more. 

 

 

[beautifulthailand99]

15 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Very true. Very very true! Very very irrefutably true!!

 

And could you believe that some remainers even doubted that EU contributions are calculated on the lenght of a country's seaborder ?

There are even remainers who think brexiteers should not post from government computers during working hours, as this would be a theft of taxpayers' money.

 

PS: an overwhelming majority (52%) of the people that inhabit the moon want a no deal brexit.

Probably if moon inhabitants were polled a small majority would vote to escape the earth's orbit even if it meant being pulled towards the sun - being controlled by pesky unelected gravitational forces which we all know were discovered nay invented by an Englishman , Newton. 

[oldhippy]

I put my money (pounds) on that Rees Mogg character, but I worry that Cameron might win once again, with his Pig & Deck act.

(Farage was disqualified, they did not want to accept wannabe hiso).

Ah, never mind it is only pounds, not real money.

 

 

[nauseus]

9 hours ago, bristolboy said:

'Another pointless all purpose insulting generalizations about remainers. Nothing actually germane to the issues at hand. I'm not going to make generalizations about Brexiters making clueless comments just because you do.

That makes a change.

[sandyf]

20 hours ago, JonnyF said:

I think the UK leaving the EU and signing a mutually beneficial trade deal is the most sensible way forward. 

 

By leaving, I mean leave completely (Customs Union, Single market, ECJ jurisdiction etc.).

 

Trade continues (keeping Remainers happy as they put the economy above everything else) and Leavers are happy as we have full sovereignty.

 

I really don't think it's complicated if there is good will on both sides.

 

 

 

What you and many others cannot seem to grasp is the UK cannot leave on that basis.

If there ever is this "mutually beneficial trade deal" it will be the single market in disguise to maintain regulatory alignment across the open border.

Anything else can only create tension over the border and result in a reunified Ireland

With a reunified Ireland and an independent Scotland, those that voted to leave would get what they voted for. an Independent England. After all 15.2 million of the votes to leave were from England.

Brexit has always been about the will of the English people, Ireland, as a whole, and Scotland have never been anything other than a thorn in the flesh of brexit.

[Laughing Gravy]

19 hours ago, puipuitom said:

You forget a little tiny part: "and all other 27 EU member states agreed with it". 

You still don't get it. A Dutchman who thinks his country has a say. That is why the EU just laugh and ignore referendums from your country. The people think they have a say. Hilarious.

 

19 hours ago, puipuitom said:

But seen all accusations amoung the British about "traitors", time the British enjoy some time outside the EU.

Can't wait the federalisation of Europe will fail. You might keep a few Eastern Europeans countries together to keep a united front up against Russia but that's it.

 

19 hours ago, puipuitom said:

And after, the EU can negotiate the conditions of a new membership. 

Lol. You have more chance of Holland winning the Rugby world cup. Yes I know they are not in it. That's the point.

[Laughing Gravy]

19 hours ago, puipuitom said:

Time (again) to read first, and talk/write afterwards

•  

  Why was the UK considered “the sick man of Europe” in the 1970s ...

  https://www.quora.com/Why-was-the-UK-considered-“the-sick-man-of-Europe”-in-the-1970s
  The term “Sick man of Europe” was used by the media to impress ... Throughout the 1970s there was a great deal of political unrest in the U...

• Britain is once again the sick man of Europe | Financial Times

  https://www.ft.com/content/5a629584-610a-11e9-a27a-fdd51850994c
  18 Apr 2019 ... Britain is once again the sick man of Europe ... and “people from anywhere”, as David Goodhart defines it in his book, The Road to Somewhere.

• Britain: back to being the sick man of Europe? - That 1970s show

  https://www.economist.com/buttonwoods-notebook/2017/07/19/britain-back-to-being-the-sick-man-of-europe
  19 Jul 2017 ... Co

• Japan's richest man fears Brexit could turn UK into 'sick man of Europe'

  https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/19/business/tadashi-yanai-fast-retailing-uniqlo/index.html
  1 day ago ... London (CNN Business) Japan's richest man has warned that Brexit is " practically impossible" and could take the United Kingdom back to the ...

• Britain is the “sick man” of Europe again - UK Uncensored

  https://ukuncensored.com/britain-is-the-sick-man-of-europe-again/
  20 Apr 2019 ... I'd like your opinion on the most pressing problem of our time. It's a difficult and important question so first, please read what follows carefully…

• How Brexit has made Britain the new sick man of Europe

  https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/economy/2017/10/how-brexit-has-made-britain-new-sick-man-europe
  27 Oct 2017 ... Britain became known as “the sick man of Europe” – a label first .... been greater: Britain imported £22bn from the EU but exported just £14bn.

• 'Britain is fast becoming the sick man of Europe' – experts debate ...

  https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/24/britain-is-fast-becoming-the-sick-man-of-europe-experts-debate-brexit-data
  24 Jul 2017 ... 'Britain is fast becoming the sick man of Europe' – experts debate Brexit data ... I keep waiting for the good news that the Brexiters told us would ...

I applaud you for reading nearly every left wing paper besides the Independent and Observer. So you still have some more reading to do.

 

Your readings remind me when a person says I read lots of magazines. The only thing they are from the top shelf of a newsagent. Then claim they don't have a biased point of view, especially after reading Razzle, Hustler and other adult magazines as they are all different.