Karaoke Singer Accuses Policeman Of Chopping Her Arm Off

[taxexile]

the national police and the public prosecutors office in bangkok have asked the saraburi police to fully investigate this incident , to speed up the civil case concerning the compensation for the victim , and to investigate why the criminal case against the 3 accused is moving so slowly , to get to the bottom of this story and come up with the truth.

the policeman accused denies the charge , saying she was involved in a crash with a 10 wheeled truck , resulting in her losing her arm , he was following her at the time and witnessed the accident.

however , she says that they were trying to kill her when another car stopped and someone came to her help , and the 3 accused fled.

she has a full time bodyguard at the moment , and needs compensation so she can look after her son and sick mother , as she is unable to work.

the doctor at the hospital says the wound was a clean slice wound , rather than the sort of wound that would have been caused by a motor accident.

the policeman in charge of the station where the accused is based says it is a private matter and wont say much at all.

all in all it looks like the local police were well on the way to stalling any prosecution until she travelled to bangkok and reported her plight to the national police , which is headed by seripisuth , who by all accounts is a true professional and refuses to believe early statements given by the 3 accused.

it's anybodys guess how this will end , the local police will do what they can to protect their own , and the national police , seeing the seriousness and absolute horror of what happened will try and get a prosecution.

my guess is thst she will get her compensation for the injuries , but i doubt if the accused will get gaol time.

under no circumstances should anybody have anything to do with drunken thai males.

and if they wield any power , like the police , its best to have as little to do with them under any circumstances.

scum.

[Mid]

Justice must not only be done ,

It must be seen to be done .................

[jdinasia]

Geeze ... that means no more gay bars for me ... and no discos for the farang women etc ........

no more parties with the plain clothes cops in hua Hin when I go there ... etc ....

I think I'll leave the stereotypes out of my life instead

[terryp]

Terrible ..plain & simple

What is wrong with these idiots, they really do believe that they are untouchable for any of their disgusting actions

Far too much leniency is put on the fact that these c###s “had been drinking”…?

Hopefully they will be disposed of; as people like this are not fit to breathe the air we do

Just think if it was your child

[bkkmadness]

What is wrong with these idiots, they really do believe that they are untouchable for any of their disgusting actions

Yes and they were almost right in their beliefs. If it wasn't for this brave girl who made a trip to Bangkok (with an amputated arm and leg in plaster) then she would just be another road accident statistic in Thailand and the policeman would still be on active duty.

under no circumstances should anybody have anything to do with drunken thai males.

Bit of a silly statement to come from you Tax.

Edited March 23, 2007 by bkkmadness

[jdinasia]

ummm the concept is .... IF this policeman and his friends are in fact guilty .....

[taxexile]

Bit of a silly statement to come from you Tax.

i'll stick by it though !

[AlexLah]

Terrible indeed....

But, if it was a clean cut as mentioned then why not find the chopped off arm and get it sewed back on?

I mean sometimes you read those story's of husbands with their willie chopped off and doctors are able to get it back on.

I have seen chopped/torn off arm and legs which where properly reattached by surgeons or in this case perhaps some soi dog grabbed it and run away with it?

Where is the chopped off piece of arm?

Oh anbd for the poster that commented: So why you not leave in a reply to someones post.

Some of us did not choose to live here, including me, but I try to make the best of it...

[Galong]

If found guilty, this needs to be front-page international news! A major loss of face for the police and the nation would be in order in my opinion. This is a much more important issue/event than that boring Anna Nicole Smith tripe. The police need to be exposed for who/what they truly are... that is, IF they did it.

Ban alcohol - it's obvious that Thais can't handle the stuff!!!

[bkkmadness]

Terrible indeed....

But, if it was a clean cut as mentioned then why not find the chopped off arm and get it sewed back on?

I mean sometimes you read those story's of husbands with their willie chopped off and doctors are able to get it back on.

I have seen chopped/torn off arm and legs which where properly reattached by surgeons or in this case perhaps some soi dog grabbed it and run away with it?

Where is the chopped off piece of arm?

Oh anbd for the poster that commented: So why you not leave in a reply to someones post.

Some of us did not choose to live here, including me, but I try to make the best of it...

The arm would have to be immediately put in ice and she along with the arm would have to been rushed to a hospital where they had the expertise to perform this delicate procedure.

And Tax, recalling your experience at the cowboy last songkran I can certainly understand your feelings though I still can't agree.

[Heng]

But, if it was a clean cut as mentioned then why not find the chopped off arm and get it sewed back on?

She might have only had access to a second rate gov't hospital in Saraburi and a 30 Baht healthcare card. Maybe there were only a few doctors on call and no surgeons.

[taxexile]

And Tax, recalling your experience at the cowboy last songkran I can certainly understand your feelings though I still can't agree.

point taken bkkm , fair enough , this story has angered me a lot , its up there with the two tourists shot by the drunken cop in kanchanaburi , and in spite of what i (and most of us know ) about the unfairness of life here , the fact that this can happen and there is so little outpouring of feeling from thai people about this is hard to understand , i guess they are just used to it.

i have spoken with a few thais about this case and they just sort of say "yes , well , i know ..." and start to tell me about even worse cases of abuses of power by the police....... and its always off duty drunk police.

when i mentioned that this story is starting to make the news abroad , they looked surprised and said it was no good for thailand if these stories got out.

the fact that no one makes more than a 'token' fuss just condemns them to more of it.

as heng often says , if its outside the immediate family , its not my business , let those that have to deal with it deal with it , it doesnt concern me.

its a cultural difference that explains a lot.

but i find it selfish and destructive to society at large.

as far as the missing arm goes , i heard that it was put in ice but was put in a bag with ice instead of being enclosed in a bag and then put on ice , and that reattachment was impossible because the arm had ''gone off"

Edited March 23, 2007 by taxexile

[Mid]

nail , hit , head .......................

thanxs Tax

[A_Traveller]

Justice must not only be done ,

It must be seen to be done .................

But justice delayed is justice denied

Having to come to plead in Bangkok, heaven forfend

Regards

/edit typo //

Edited March 23, 2007 by A_Traveller

[Toptrainer]

Some one said this happens everywhere. Unfortunatly this happens here to often and what happens after the deed? Usually not much.

Sick

[lannarebirth]

Some one said this happens everywhere. Unfortunatly this happens here to often and what happens after the deed? Usually not much.

Sick

It does not happen everywhere. In America, one could expect to be a victim of a violent crime once evry 213 years. I don't know what the statistic is for a violent crime at the hands of a law enforcement officer, but I would expect once in several thousand years. Here, those that ought to be looking out for the welfare of the citizenry are the people most likely to commit felonious acts. In America, certain laws, if broken by law enforcement officers, have a much harsher penalty than if a civilain does it.

[Thai-Spy]

Some one said this happens everywhere. Unfortunatly this happens here to often and what happens after the deed? Usually not much.

Sick

It does not happen everywhere. In America, one could expect to be a victim of a violent crime once evry 213 years. I don't know what the statistic is for a violent crime at the hands of a law enforcement officer, but I would expect once in several thousand years. Here, those that ought to be looking out for the welfare of the citizenry are the people most likely to commit felonious acts. In America, certain laws, if broken by law enforcement officers, have a much harsher penalty than if a civilain does it.

Yes, in most American jurisdictions an assault be a sworn officer is termed "abuse under color of authority" and the penalties are roughly triple that for the same act committed by a civilian.

There are two fundamental problems that will make police reform in Thailand very difficult. One is the wide discretion that the cop on the spot or his sergeant at the station have in interpreting the law, assessing fines, etc. The other is the near total absence of civilian oversight of police affairs.

[gharknes]

quote .................. the policeman in charge of the station where the accused is based says it is a private matter and wont say much at all.....................

I think this statement says it all

How can this crime against an inocent member of the public suspected to have been committed by a public servant be a private matter, is that guy for real..................lock him up too.

[drummer]

as heng often says , if its outside the immediate family , its not my business , let those that have to deal with it deal with it , it doesnt concern me.

its a cultural difference that explains a lot.

but i find it selfish and destructive to society at large.

As well as the very things that most expats like Thailand for! "Mai pen rai!" Take the good of that with the bad. The opposite of it is Singapore. Where are you living?

as far as the missing arm goes , i heard that it was put in ice but was put in a bag with ice instead of being enclosed in a bag and then put on ice , and that reattachment was impossible because the arm had ''gone off"

Soi dogs?

Re: punishment. These guys are SICK. no really. This guy MUTILATED SOMEONE. he didn't go for the tire. He mutilated her. He has personal problems. He has to be insane to do something like that. like the guy from Cali. Lock 'em up forever, or 'fix' em! I generally advocate the latter. Espcially for sex crimes, like this one is. For pedos, I advocate using a belt sander to do the job.

These guys ARE sick. But then, just the job description of "police officer" draws the very sort of person that likes to be in control of others. Worldwide. A lot of bouncers are bouncers just because they like the idea of being able to beat people up. Many police are the same way, only with guns. Rodney King, anyone? it happens EVERYWHERE. the only way to get around this is independent oversight. Citizens commission. An honest guy at the top might work, until the guy retires! The problem with succession is who gets to succeed!

Regarding the Hi-So Thais thinking "She's just a karaoke singer"... That particular aspect of Thai Buddhism is the worst aspect of all of Thailand, if you ask me. She's lower class, and therefore she probably killed her parents in her last life or something. If she had a good soul, she would be rich. She deserves anything bad that happens to her - simply because of her social status. That particualr aspect makes me sick!

[drummer]

Oh - another thing worth considering.

With police corruption, doctor malpractice, and a lot of other things:

It is usually a few bad apples that account for 80% of the bad experiences. When these guys get caught, they ought to be dealt with. Whatever the punishment, they should not ever be allowed to be doctors, police, whatever EVER AGAIN.

It is not only a major loss of face for those honest and hardworking members of the group, but also creates major societal problems.

PS- 6 pages of comments and no jokes as to her singing ability? :wow:

[Jimjim]

Regarding the Hi-So Thais thinking "She's just a karaoke singer"... That particular aspect of Thai Buddhism is the worst aspect of all of Thailand, if you ask me. She's lower class, and therefore she probably killed her parents in her last life or something. If she had a good soul, she would be rich. She deserves anything bad that happens to her - simply because of her social status. That particualr aspect makes me sick!

I agree that that is a disgusting attitude to have, but what does Buddhism have to do with it? I think you should show distaste for Thai culture, not Thai Buddhism, in this case. Class distinctions are not a Buddhism/religious issue. I understand your reincarnation understanding but I think it's more of a culture thing, and less of a religious thing.

Anyway, whatever.

[drummer]

Whats the difference between religion and culture, Jimjim? What causes what? Thai Buddhism is certainly not the same as Indian Buddhism, Japanese Buddhism, or any other kind. This difference is certainly largely dictated by culture... The concept of Zen, with its koans, is very Japanese - and was certainly "very Japanese" before Buddhism got there. However, is it religious? I would think that religion and culture and inextricable.

Heres my case for this being considered religious:

Thai's believe in Hel_l. Fire and brimstone, painful, nasty, smelly, Dante's Inferno style Hel_l (Thai word - na-rok นรก). The recent Thai movie "Narok" depicts what most Thais believe pretty well, although it is quite similar to Dante's Inferno, if you have ever read it. you know, adulterers get their their willies lopped off again and again, gluttons get their stomachs picked out by crows, etc etc. Catholic style. Thai hel_l sucks.

Thai's believe that if you don't make a lot of 'merit', then you spend more time in Narok (Hel_l) and your punishment is more severe. And, when you finally reincarnate, then you are better looking, luckier, richer, and higher status.

Those, like Thaksin, who are uber-rich are presumed to be so because they have great spirits. Thaksin was able to get away with a lot because of "mai pen rai" but also because people refused to believe he was a criminal. It just didn't make sense religiously (culturally) for someone who boviously was such a great person in his last life to be a scumbag in this one.

Also, those who are, say, deformed, DESERVE IT. They were obviously nasty brutish people who did nothing but drink whiskey and insult HM all day. They were unlucky to be in the shape/status/situation they are in, and, because of the wheels of fate, it is their punishment. Their deformity is proof of their bad spirit.

This has many effects. Children with darker skin are often treated badly in school. They are have dark skin because they are bad kids. If they were good kids, had good spirits, then they would have come back with lighter skin. Furthermore, and Thai will tell you that the poor girl in question was unlucky to have this happen to her.

If she was good person, not only would she not be a "Karaoke Singer", this would not have happened to her. Som nam na, as they say. Serves her right.

Ask around. Thats the logic. Us farang tend to take things out of context and analyze it seperately. Asians tend look at everything in context.

Is this religion or culture? Obviously both! I don't think they can be separated too easily. However, "merit building" is absolutely the realm of Religion, as is Narok.

I'm certainly not Thailand hating, there is a lot to love. BUT! this particular aspect of things really irks me. BTW - I am quite certain that a lot of it is 'cause I'm American - where the opposite (Enforced equality, pull yourself up by your own bootstraps, everyone gets a 'fair shake', everyone is equal) is deemed to be held true (its not really true, either) Another part of it is that I consider myself a Buddhist as well, and I know that Narok isn't exactly Buddhist doctrine. (Don't tell the Thais that, though. My wife certainyl won't hear it. She donates extra money to the temples so I won't spend so much time in Hel_l when I die. Nice enough for her to do, I guess...)

Edited March 24, 2007 by drummer

[JacknDanny]

These guys ARE sick. But then, just the job description of "police officer" draws the very sort of person that likes to be in control of others. Worldwide. A lot of bouncers are bouncers just because they like the idea of being able to beat people up. Many police are the same way, only with guns. Rodney King, anyone? it happens EVERYWHERE. the only way to get around this is independent oversight. Citizens commission. An honest guy at the top might work, until the guy retires! The problem with succession is who gets to succeed!

A ridiculous and totally inaccurate statement that you make!!!!!!!

[drummer]

No its not!

..... because I said so! (please explain ? )

[andook]

Regarding the Hi-So Thais thinking "She's just a karaoke singer"... That particular aspect of Thai Buddhism is the worst aspect of all of Thailand, if you ask me. She's lower class, and therefore she probably killed her parents in her last life or something. If she had a good soul, she would be rich. She deserves anything bad that happens to her - simply because of her social status. That particualr aspect makes me sick!

I agree that that is a disgusting attitude to have, but what does Buddhism have to do with it? I think you should show distaste for Thai culture, not Thai Buddhism, in this case. Class distinctions are not a Buddhism/religious issue. I understand your reincarnation understanding but I think it's more of a culture thing, and less of a religious thing.

Anyway, whatever.

Thats assuming that "Hi So Thais" are religious / Buddhist?

Usually religion is just pacification for the poor. "Opium for the masses" as Mao famously said. Most religions get distorted to suit the ideals and keep the status quo of the peole in charge. Why should Thailand be any different?

[Heng]

If she was good person, not only would she not be a "Karaoke Singer", this would not have happened to her. Som nam na, as they say. Serves her right.

You're the first person I've heard, Thai or falang to 'som nam na' this gal, while discussing this incident.

As for locals who think that one's occupation is the result of one's karma, which incidentally I don't believe one bit... I prefer to go with natural selection on that one, you'll find folks of ALL classes which believe this, I'm not sure why there is a need to point a finger at those who happen to be better off.

edit: "Well she's a karaoke singer" is somewhat valid (and of course by NO means justifies getting mutilated, raped, or murdered, etc.) if one takes the meaning to indicate the inherent dangers/expectations of performance in one's profession, which most would equate to being a prostitute, b__-g_rl, etc. One might see mobs of outrage if it was a school girl or nurse... but I can certainly understand if the mob doesn't show up for a karaoke singer.

Edited March 24, 2007 by Heng

[helicoptor]

<deleted>?

I just clicked the link and showed the report (in thai) to my thai colleagues, they were not surprised and indicated this is just onother story of BIB thinking they are above all law. Many other terrible incidents like this go unreported, they said.

[drummer]

Most hi-so people aren't particularly religious, nor are most lo-so folks. And a precious few of them are accurate practitioners of their faith, whatever their faith may be!! Doesn't stop religion from having its effect....

If she was good person, not only would she not be a "Karaoke Singer", this would not have happened to her. Som nam na, as they say. Serves her right.

You're the first person I've heard, Thai or falang to 'som nam na' this gal, while discussing this incident.

I wasn't speaking from my own opint of view, of course!

As for locals who think that one's occupation is the result of one's karma, which incidentally I don't believe one bit... I prefer to go with natural selection on that one, you'll find folks of ALL classes which believe this, I'm not sure why there is a need to point a finger at those who happen to be better off.

I happen to know quite a bit about this subject: Natural selection has VERY VERY LITTLE to do with intelligence. How many Hi So folks do you know who are successful solely because of their family/resources? Most of 'em. Pres. Bush, for example, would be somewhere in Odessa, TX selling used cars if it weren't for his 'blue blood'.

The case for DNA influencing intelligence is thin at best. Where there is somewhat reliable evidence, the changes are minimal. a couple of IQ points at best. However, where someone goes to school is hugely important. What expctations that are placed on you are hugely important. Immigrant Africans are making, on average, higher income than whites in many areas. They came over with the expectation to succeed. African Americans often have the idea that someone is "keeping them down" and that is why they can't succeed. There is a lot of truth to that feeling - really - but its no different than what every immigrant group has faced. Just start telling a Pollack joke or Italian joke. They come from when they were the immigrants. The English took Irish (my ancestors) and Spanish and many other Europeans over to be slaves in sugarcane plantations at one time.

Another thing to consider... there is a lot of infidelity, historically, and not only have Hi-So men fathered many lo-so babies, but lo-so men have fathered hi-so babies. Its hardly a closed system. The rise and fall of families and groups is another.

The environmental factors in regards to th expression of intelligence... diet as you grw up, nd exposure to pollutants is another major factor. The propensity toward drug use and the general uneducated nature of lower classes on these and other issues is certainly related.

The nail in the coffin of eugenics, however, is that lower classes have more kids than higher classes. Natural selection is all about how many kids you have.

edit: "Well she's a karaoke singer" is somewhat valid (and of course by NO means justifies getting mutilated, raped, or murdered, etc.) if one takes the meaning to indicate the inherent dangers/expectations of performance in one's profession, which most would equate to being a prostitute, b__-g_rl, etc. One might see mobs of outrage if it was a school girl or nurse... but I can certainly understand if the mob doesn't show up for a karaoke singer.

Good point. I recall reading an article where a Thai man in Pattaya almost killed the masseuse for refusing his extra money.... Would have, too, except the other folks stopped him. (including the police, who had a very fast response time)

Of course, if it weren't the police, then there would hardly be the outcry on this board, either.

[Tony Clifton]

IF there is someday a long awaited and much needed police reform, hopefully, psychological profiles will be part of it. But then again, which ones are mentally fit do decide on having mandatory profiles to begin with.

[Mid]

Today's Top Stories

Provincial police 'covering up officer's assault'

By Heamakarn Sricharatchanya

A karaoke singer travelled 100 kilometres from Saraburi province to Bangkok to ask for justice from National Police Chief Seripisuth Temiyavej, alleging that a drunken police officer and his two friends chopped off her arm after she refused their order to sit with them at a food shop.

The 24-year-old Supansa Wichanand, with her right arm amputated and broken leg in a cast, arrived at the Royal Thai Police office on Wednesday to hand a letter to Pol Gen Seripisuth. Her petition asked the national police chief to give her a fair hearing and justice.

In the letter, she accused Pol Lance Corporal Nirut Thammasap, a squad leader of Ban Mo district police, and his two companions for putting her in this condition with a brutal, late-night attack almost a month ago.

I missed this the first time round , quoted from the article linked to above ...

Ms Supansa, a factory worker who came to Supanburi after a fight with her family a few days earlier,

to me it would appear that she had to fight her family to get to Bkk in the first place ....................