40k Rule With Annual Visa Renewal

[RusT]

Hi All,

Today I "reported in" to immigration for the last time before my visa (non-immigrant O) comes up for renewal in June and took the opportunity to check what was requried of me come June. To my surprise they hit me with this new 40k monthly income requirement (I should visit this site more often as I had no idea).

Anyway I have gone back over the related posts and I have all the usual documents prepared ie. marriage cert, house rego, 400k in the bank etc and the Australian embassy has said they will sign and stamp an affidavit from myself stating my monthly income is 40k baht but my question is this:

Will this affidavit on its own satisfy immigration regarding the 40k requirement? Or will they need to see additional evidence ie. letter from employer, evidence of previous monthly payments of this amount etc? Or does it all come down to the discretion of the "friendly" immigration officer.

If anyone has any knowledge or experience of this it would be highly apprecited.

[lopburi3]

Believe most are only being asked for the letter but there have scattered reports of some having to show some kind of supporting documents so I would take just to be prepared. The 400k bank deposit should not be required if you meet the 40k income but you may have a choice if you used that method last year to continue using it. But the account should be at the 400k level or above for 3 months prior to application under the grandfather rule. But I am sure if you have employment they would prefer you use that method.

[AJARNJACK]

Well boys, I've got a little story about my experience just today at the Kantang Immigration Office in Trang Province while trying to finalize my visa based on being married to a Thai.

Previously I'd already been to this office twice before to check on their particular requirements for paperwork to file for a visa based on marriage to a Thai. The first visit was a failure because at first my wife stayed in my pickup as I attempted to deal with them alone using English. The only English they could muster was "Wife. Where wife?" Then, even though I brought all the paperwork that I've read on this forum is required now, they wanted us to go back to the provencial office where we were married and get some obscure document even the folks in that office weren't familiar with. So armed with that and a letter from our landlady verifying our residencewe went back the second time. This time we were treated properly, but were told we needed to come back again with someone who knew us as a married couple they could interview. We felt sure that we were almost there and 5 weeks to spare before my present Non Immigrant O/A expired.

So today we brought our friend for them to interview only to be told by the head of the office (her helpers helped us the last times) that having a letter from the embassy verifying my monthly income of over 50k baht per month wasn't acceptable anymore since then new laws changed. She demanded that my wife must show her last year's tax statement! When my wife explained that she didn't have a job and had only been helping her family without pay, the department head said that I must show that I have a job in Thailand that provides 40k baht per month!!! She said she didn't care if I got one million USD per month, I must earn this money in Thailand Being a Thai woman, my wife simply smiled and said she understood. Even though I'd printed out the Thai Police Official Regulations (downloaded from this site) concerning the visa requirements based on having a Thai spouse (both in Thai and English), my wife didn't show it to the department head because she figured it would only cause us more problems. Once back inside the pickup truck though, my wife confessed how angry she was at "that stupid woman". She had read the regulations herself and realized it said nothing about her needing to show she had an income because it could come from the husband, wife or combination of the two. It also doesn't require this monthly income to come only from Thailand. What had this lady in the office been smoking???

My question to the forum is: What do you do in a situation like this? Is there someone "higher up" that I can contact to help 'enlighten' the Kangtan office as to the correct requirements? To coin a new term a friend of mine just created, this is "Thai-diculous"!

[Krub]

Well boys, I've got a little story about my experience just today at the Kantang Immigration Office in Trang Province while trying to finalize my visa based on being married to a Thai.

Previously I'd already been to this office twice before to check on their particular requirements for paperwork to file for a visa based on marriage to a Thai. The first visit was a failure because at first my wife stayed in my pickup as I attempted to deal with them alone using English. The only English they could muster was "Wife. Where wife?" Then, even though I brought all the paperwork that I've read on this forum is required now, they wanted us to go back to the provencial office where we were married and get some obscure document even the folks in that office weren't familiar with. So armed with that and a letter from our landlady verifying our residencewe went back the second time. This time we were treated properly, but were told we needed to come back again with someone who knew us as a married couple they could interview. We felt sure that we were almost there and 5 weeks to spare before my present Non Immigrant O/A expired.

So today we brought our friend for them to interview only to be told by the head of the office (her helpers helped us the last times) that having a letter from the embassy verifying my monthly income of over 50k baht per month wasn't acceptable anymore since then new laws changed. She demanded that my wife must show her last year's tax statement! When my wife explained that she didn't have a job and had only been helping her family without pay, the department head said that I must show that I have a job in Thailand that provides 40k baht per month!!! She said she didn't care if I got one million USD per month, I must earn this money in Thailand Being a Thai woman, my wife simply smiled and said she understood. Even though I'd printed out the Thai Police Official Regulations (downloaded from this site) concerning the visa requirements based on having a Thai spouse (both in Thai and English), my wife didn't show it to the department head because she figured it would only cause us more problems. Once back inside the pickup truck though, my wife confessed how angry she was at "that stupid woman". She had read the regulations herself and realized it said nothing about her needing to show she had an income because it could come from the husband, wife or combination of the two. It also doesn't require this monthly income to come only from Thailand. What had this lady in the office been smoking???

My question to the forum is: What do you do in a situation like this? Is there someone "higher up" that I can contact to help 'enlighten' the Kangtan office as to the correct requirements? To coin a new term a friend of mine just created, this is "Thai-diculous"!

I would try to go back and show the document, maybe ask her to call the immigration hotline or make a trip to Bangkok or Phuket where the rules are better understood.

Maybe call the immigration hotline and tell them and ask what you should do ?

It is also possible to ask Sunbelt (sponsors) to have some help but with extra cost

Good luck

[Mahout Angrit]

My question to the forum is: What do you do in a situation like this? Is there someone "higher up" that I can contact to help 'enlighten' the Kangtan office as to the correct requirements?

Go to another office in Haad Yai, Krabi or Phuket where they are more familiar with the proceedure and probably do it on a daily basis. Dont even bother to educate them they wont appreciate it.

[RusT]

Thanks Lopburi 3 for your thoughts on my first post. When you say "supporting documents" are we talking about gathering together various bank statments and what not? Showing evidence that I have money parked in various accounts is not a problem but I'm afraid if they are looking for evidence of an accurate monthly income figure I'm afraid I will not be able to provide it. Most of the money is tied up in stocks, mutual funds etc and its just not possible to predict how much each source generates as it obviously fluctuates. I don't understand what they are getting at regarding a letter from an employer. If I was working in Thailand I would a have a work permit (as I have had previously) and if I was employed by a company abroad I would have no need for a long term visa to stay here with my family in Thailand as I would be away working.

Do you feel that providing I don't have some physcotic nutter official like AjarnJack experienced today and that if I go in armed with the usual documents together with an affidavit approved by the embassy stating an approximate monthly income above 40k Baht and various bank statements from Thailand and abroad totalling a few million baht I should be OK?

Many thanks for any further advice you have and anyone else who has any thoughts to share. Ajarn Jack, I feel for you and can only suggest you try someone else in the office on a different day or call the hotline for advice. Either this lady was having an extemely bad day or more likely is on her own power trip and won't listen to reason. Good luck.

[lopburi3]

Believe you will be fine. Just should have some kind of paperwork to act as support if they ask - I would not offer unless asked.

[paulfr]

If you have a bank book and letter from the bank stating you have 400K Thb AND that the funds came from overseas, that should be sufficient.

Obviously, if the next year there is the same evidence, then you clearly have that income for the year as no one lives for free.

Income proof is not necessary if you have the cash.

Also, a combination of income and funds is permissible to meet the 400K/year.

I would try another trip back there and see if you can get a different agent/officer.

After that it is time to switch Imm offices to where they know what they are doing.

BTW, here in Bkk, even with all documents in order they make me wait a month, sometimes two months [giving me 1 month extensions] , before giving me the final 1 yr stamp. Reason ? ... who knows ?

[lopburi3]

There is no longer an option for bank deposit except for those grandfathered. The requirement now is 40k per month family income.

[Mahout Angrit]

If you have a bank book and letter from the bank stating you have 400K Thb AND that the funds came from overseas, that should be sufficient.

Obviously, if the next year there is the same evidence, then you clearly have that income for the year as no one lives for free.

Income proof is not necessary if you have the cash.

Also, a combination of income and funds is permissible to meet the 400K/year.

This is not correct since 1st October 2006 if this is the first time that you have applied for an extension. As Lopburi3 says showing income is the only option.

[paulfr]

There is no longer an option for bank deposit except for those grandfathered. The requirement now is 40k per month family income.

Is that after taxes ?

No joke .......... 40K/month gross or net ?

[lopburi3]

40k gross.

[AJARNJACK]

Thanks to everyone that responded to my request for ideas concerning dealing with the head of Immigration in a small up-country office.

Yes, I have already made plans to drive to Songkla and submit my paperwork there. In typical Thai style, my wife took appropriate action. Luckily for us, she has good friend from her school days that used to work there and now is working for Immigration in Bangkok. She phoned her and explained how exasperated she was in dealing with the head of the Kantang Immigration Office. Well, her friend immediately went to work contacting a senior Immigration official in the Bangkok office to explain our encounter with the Kantang official. Regardless of the buearacracy, "shit rolls down hill" and before the day was out we got a phone call from my wife's friend with a report. The official in Kantang had been contacted, reprimanded and now is under review. She even said that she a 'nobody' who came from a small town that was 'power hungry' -- yeah baby! She further recomended that we avoid that office in the future due to the problems we've just caused this official. She said that I could go there for my 90 day reporting and if we got any hassels while doing that, we should report the individual to the local police and they will take actions against them.

So all in all, we've gotten around the problem by having to drive 2 hours to Songkla and the uniformed, unfriendly and uncaring official at the Kantang office "has her ass in a sling"!

Bye the way, just for future referrence, what is the Immigration Hotline phone number?

[lopburi3]

Government Contact Center 1111

[AJARNJACK]

Thanks lopburi3. Just might come in handy some day.

[Mahout Angrit]

She said that I could go there for my 90 day reporting and if we got any hassels while doing that, we should report the individual to the local police and they will take actions against them.

Might be wise to go to another immigration office in Trang to do your reporting for a while... don't really want them to know your address do you.... and definitely dont be late

[chinadarling]

40k gross.

Where do they get this silliness?

40,000.00 THB = 1,444.36 CAD

That is a lot of money in Thailand. There are people in 1st world countries making that.

not many but...ridiculous.

I think these constant silly problems will only get resolved if foreign countries ie embassies really put pressure on but it is a catch 22, they are only interested in a country if there is money in it. there is no money in it if companies are afraid to open there....etc...

too late at night for my brain, hope you know what I mean.

[Guts]

There is no longer an option for bank deposit except for those grandfathered. The requirement now is 40k per month family income.

Does that mean 40k for husband and wife together as "Family income" ? Or do you need a to have an income of 40k as individual?

(I have just extended my non-o for another year in the end of october 2006 with 400k in the bank with no problems. I am 34)

[ccarbaugh]

40k gross.

Where do they get this silliness?

40,000.00 THB = 1,444.36 CAD

That is a lot of money in Thailand. There are people in 1st world countries making that.

not many but...ridiculous.

I think these constant silly problems will only get resolved if foreign countries ie embassies really put pressure on but it is a catch 22, they are only interested in a country if there is money in it. there is no money in it if companies are afraid to open there....etc...

too late at night for my brain, hope you know what I mean.

I agree - My pension, (beginning next year,) will be approx 24K - the rest of my income is investment- based, so will be variable. 400K deposit isn't a problem but (hopefully) it can be in CD's or an interest-bearing account - ? Seems like a lot of "hoops" but, as always, we all pay the price for the minority.

[lopburi3]

There is no longer an option for bank deposit except for those grandfathered. The requirement now is 40k per month family income.

Does that mean 40k for husband and wife together as "Family income" ? Or do you need a to have an income of 40k as individual?

(I have just extended my non-o for another year in the end of october 2006 with 400k in the bank with no problems. I am 34)

Husband, wife, or combined. Total must be 40k or above for last three months.

[cosmont]

Well boys, I've got a little story about my experience just today at the Kantang Immigration Office in Trang Province while trying to finalize my visa based on being married to a Thai.

Previously I'd already been to this office twice before to check on their particular requirements for paperwork to file for a visa based on marriage to a Thai. The first visit was a failure because at first my wife stayed in my pickup as I attempted to deal with them alone using English. The only English they could muster was "Wife. Where wife?" Then, even though I brought all the paperwork that I've read on this forum is required now, they wanted us to go back to the provencial office where we were married and get some obscure document even the folks in that office weren't familiar with. So armed with that and a letter from our landlady verifying our residencewe went back the second time. This time we were treated properly, but were told we needed to come back again with someone who knew us as a married couple they could interview. We felt sure that we were almost there and 5 weeks to spare before my present Non Immigrant O/A expired.

So today we brought our friend for them to interview only to be told by the head of the office (her helpers helped us the last times) that having a letter from the embassy verifying my monthly income of over 50k baht per month wasn't acceptable anymore since then new laws changed. She demanded that my wife must show her last year's tax statement! When my wife explained that she didn't have a job and had only been helping her family without pay, the department head said that I must show that I have a job in Thailand that provides 40k baht per month!!! She said she didn't care if I got one million USD per month, I must earn this money in Thailand Being a Thai woman, my wife simply smiled and said she understood. Even though I'd printed out the Thai Police Official Regulations (downloaded from this site) concerning the visa requirements based on having a Thai spouse (both in Thai and English), my wife didn't show it to the department head because she figured it would only cause us more problems. Once back inside the pickup truck though, my wife confessed how angry she was at "that stupid woman". She had read the regulations herself and realized it said nothing about her needing to show she had an income because it could come from the husband, wife or combination of the two. It also doesn't require this monthly income to come only from Thailand. What had this lady in the office been smoking???

My question to the forum is: What do you do in a situation like this? Is there someone "higher up" that I can contact to help 'enlighten' the Kangtan office as to the correct requirements? To coin a new term a friend of mine just created, this is "Thai-diculous"!

Suanplu immigration office will handling your file in a better way

Take your mate to Bangkok and everything will be fine... No need any lawyer as you already owned all the required documents

Kangtan immigration officer understood that only rich Thai women could have a farang husband ?

Your friend is right, this is "Thai ridiculous"

Edited March 25, 2007 by cosmont

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Thanks lopburi3. Just might come in handy some day.

It is a very helpful service.

[Krub]

Thanks to everyone that responded to my request for ideas concerning dealing with the head of Immigration in a small up-country office.

Yes, I have already made plans to drive to Songkla and submit my paperwork there. In typical Thai style, my wife took appropriate action. Luckily for us, she has good friend from her school days that used to work there and now is working for Immigration in Bangkok. She phoned her and explained how exasperated she was in dealing with the head of the Kantang Immigration Office. Well, her friend immediately went to work contacting a senior Immigration official in the Bangkok office to explain our encounter with the Kantang official. Regardless of the buearacracy, "shit rolls down hill" and before the day was out we got a phone call from my wife's friend with a report. The official in Kantang had been contacted, reprimanded and now is under review. She even said that she a 'nobody' who came from a small town that was 'power hungry' -- yeah baby! She further recomended that we avoid that office in the future due to the problems we've just caused this official. She said that I could go there for my 90 day reporting and if we got any hassels while doing that, we should report the individual to the local police and they will take actions against them.

So all in all, we've gotten around the problem by having to drive 2 hours to Songkla and the uniformed, unfriendly and uncaring official at the Kantang office "has her ass in a sling"!

Bye the way, just for future referrence, what is the Immigration Hotline phone number?

Wow I would not go near that immigration bureau for a looooong while even not for the 90 days reporting.

She might also have friends and they might be armed........

Take it easy.

[glen]

Hi guys,

This is a reply to Rust re OA Visa,

I have had 2 previous O-As which I got in Canberra. At that time I made sure I had 800k in a Thai Bank, tho then it wasnt necessary for it to be there for 3 months before. I think that regulation was brought in Sept. '07.

I married my Thai girlfriend in Bangkok in Dec. 'o7 and made sure I did all the paperwork. Took that in plus bankbook showing about 700k in Februrary to Suan Plu. They said I needed a 'letter' -this means a stat. dec. from the Oz embassy (who kindly point out that its truthfulness is entirely up to you and charge 500 bt). With this I also had my Oz bank statements showing I had regular income from Oz made up of my various superannuation payments and house rental. Also took in the marriage certificate (and wife) and wrote on the form that I was requesting a marriage visa. About 40 minutes later, with their usual lack of explanations, my OA visa was renewed again as a retirement visa.

Mai pen rai, best, Glen

[AJARNJACK]

Krub - thanks for your concern, but "although you can run, you can't hide". That is my case because one of the employees at the Kantang office lives about 100 meters away from my home! My wife had talked with her prior to the incident with the head of her office and showed her where we live.

Danger hasn't frightened me for over 36 years, ever since I spent a year leading a U.S. Army Airborne Rifle Squad in search of North Vietnamese Regulars in the mountains of South Viet Nam at the tender age of 19. After that I fought structure fires for the local fire department for 22 years besides packing horses in canyons and mountains and white water rafting in my free time. I respect danger but do not become numb with fear because of it.

My life has been pretty boring since moving here four years ago and although I may seem like 'an easy mark', that would prove to be a fatal assumption for someone. Besides, I prefer to stay out of prison and don't want to go there just because someone thought they could "strong arm" me. Anyway, my guess is that this situation wouldn't warrant this official to spend the money necessary to hire someone to do me harm.

[classic-chassis]

Just to add my experiences thus far. I went to the BKK office with more paperwork than I needed to.

The problem I had was the income and letter from my embassy was for 580 sterling.

This means if the pound is strong and exchanging at about 70BHT to the pound I’m good.

However the day I went down it was 68BHT to the pound which meant I came up 2400BHT per month short.

They wouldn’t accept it!!!

So my wife is now jumping through hoops to get her tax forms and other stuff for them. They are looking into what she is doing more than me, and she is feeling as if they think she’s lying, all for 600BHT per week.

I can’t work it out really. I’m not a crook or a phoney, I don’t hang round nana plaza or soi cowboy, I’m just a husband and father who is trying to fulfill a basic desire to stay with his family in their country of origin is all. It’s been ok for the past 3 years but since the end of multiple entries it’s become a nightmare! I am starting to think it would be easier and wiser to go back to the UK, because I know I’ve got to go through all this bulls*it again in less than 12 months, it leaves a rather bitter taste in ones mouth.

Any normal Thai person I speak to, whether it be a business man or common person can’t believe how difficult is for me to stay here and are honestly under the belief that because I have a wife who has a job and a Thai baby I’m allowed to stay with no problems, but the bottom line is when faced with injustice of any kind they fail to act, even when the injustice is closer to home.

What is the point really?

Edited March 26, 2007 by classic-chassis

[thaigold]

Thanks Lopburi 3 for your thoughts on my first post. When you say "supporting documents" are we talking about gathering together various bank statments and what not? Showing evidence that I have money parked in various accounts is not a problem but I'm afraid if they are looking for evidence of an accurate monthly income figure I'm afraid I will not be able to provide it. Most of the money is tied up in stocks, mutual funds etc and its just not possible to predict how much each source generates as it obviously fluctuates. I don't understand what they are getting at regarding a letter from an employer. If I was working in Thailand I would a have a work permit (as I have had previously) and if I was employed by a company abroad I would have no need for a long term visa to stay here with my family in Thailand as I would be away working.

Do you feel that providing I don't have some physcotic nutter official like AjarnJack experienced today and that if I go in armed with the usual documents together with an affidavit approved by the embassy stating an approximate monthly income above 40k Baht and various bank statements from Thailand and abroad totalling a few million baht I should be OK?

Many thanks for any further advice you have and anyone else who has any thoughts to share. Ajarn Jack, I feel for you and can only suggest you try someone else in the office on a different day or call the hotline for advice. Either this lady was having an extemely bad day or more likely is on her own power trip and won't listen to reason. Good luck.

Rust...

Are you by chance under 50 years-of-age? If so, that's the problem. Most Farang males in the Kingdom are penniless.

That's why the Thais are questioning you.

Good luck,

TG

[RusT]

Thanks Glen for your response above. It's encouraging for me to hear that things went smoothly. I plan to get the letter from the Australian embassy and take that into the immigration office togehter with various bank and financial statements to show if necessary. The truth is however that while I have plenty of money to support myself, and my wife and young baby I do not and will not have an income of Bt40,000 coming in per month. I withdraw money from various accounts here and abroad as and when I need it depending on circumstances and I have no problem proving evidence of this. If however the authorities will not allow us to live a basic, up country-style life like many other Thai families and insist on seeing evidence of Bt40,000 being deposited into my account every month then I will very reluctantly and sadly pack up my bags and leave.

Hopefully it won't come to that as I get a sense from reading the posts that interpretation of this law differs from office to office and one set of documents will pass in one office but not in another. Let's hope it goes well.

[williamw921]

my thai girl friend contacted nong khai immigration today to confirm what was required to re-new my retirement visa.she was told i no longer require the 800k/65000 per month.the requirement now is proof of 40k income per month. thats it.i find this hard to believe but my girl friend insists thats what the officer said and further more if you are married with no income you now requie 800kcan anyone confirm this.

[AJARNJACK]

William - I'm anything but an expert on Immigration Laws, but I have had some experience in dealing with immigration officials who don't really have it correct when interpeting the regulations for different visa types. As I far as I've researched, the Retirement Visa's monetary requirments are still either: 65k baht per month income (with proof) or 800k in a Thai bank for atleast 3 months prior to your application. The official your girlfriend talked to has confused the new requirement for a visa based on marriage to a Thai.

Now, "The rest of the story". Anyone following this thread is already aware of my recent experiences with a very unfriendly and uniformed Immigration Official at the Kantang Office. Lucky for me, my wife has an old high school friend working at the Immigration Office in Bangkok, whom she told about our encounter in Kantang. Her friend said that the Kantang Official had been reprimanded for her actions and suggested we go to Songkla to process my spousal visa (a two hour drive), where they are more familiar with foreigners and regulations. Two days later, as we were making plans for the drive, her friend in Immigration said that we should go back to the Kantang office to process my application because the official there had requested another chance to serve me! We went back to Kantang and handed the same paper work to her that we had done previously and it was accepted without any further problems and I was given a 60 day extension to my present visa, free. Within one week my wife was notified that my visa was approved and so today, two weeks after they finally accepted my paperwork, I got the one year extension!

What do ya know - my paperwork was complete and in order the first time I handed it to the small, up-country office of Kantang and the head of that department rejected it!!! Just proves the point that small government offices can tell you "day is night" and get away with it even though you know they are wrong - UNLESS you are lucky enough to have a friend in high places. Corrupt, uncaring officials that will only do their duty when bribes are paid or a 'higher-up' applies pressure --- you betcha!