Final proposal - PM Johnson to unveil Brexit offer to EU

[transam]

3 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

twisting twisting twisting

 

This is no for dancing......????

[Jip99]

36 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Brexiteers are banking on votes against JC to try and get what they want. They are scared to ask the question directly as they know it would go against them.

 

 

No they don’t.

 

 

I don’t fear a second vote. I oppose it because it is unnecessary and an affront to democracy.

[DannyCarlton]

11 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

I don’t fear a second vote. I oppose it because it is unnecessary and an affront to democracy.

If it gave conformation of the leave vote and allowed you to choose which withdrawal agreement you prefer, how would that be an affront to democracy?

[Jip99]

3 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

If it gave conformation of the leave vote and allowed you to choose which withdrawal agreement you prefer, how would that be an affront to democracy?

 

If there was a referendum with choices:-

 

1. Leave with the withdrawal agreement.

 

2. Leave with No Deal.

 

3. Just <deleted> leave, I don’t give a <deleted> how.

 

 

It would not be an affront to democracy.

[Jip99]

Just now, Jip99 said:

 

If there was a referendum with choices:-

 

1. Leave with the withdrawal agreement.

 

2. Leave with No Deal.

 

3. Just <deleted> leave, I don’t give a <deleted> how.

 

 

It would not be an affront to democracy.

 

 

In fact you could just have option 2........ yes or no.

 

If more than 50% voted ‘yes’ then there is a clear mandate  for No Deal.

 

 

I think many understand that a GE result would signal the same.

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, Jip99 said:

 

If there was a referendum with choices:-

 

1. Leave with the withdrawal agreement.

 

2. Leave with No Deal.

 

3. Just <deleted> leave, I don’t give a <deleted> how.

 

 

It would not be an affront to democracy.

OK mate, I'll have a word with Jeremy (the next PM) and see what he can do for you. I think he may want "4. Withdraw Article 50"  on the ballot paper too just to appease us very few whinging traitors. If thats alright with you.

[oldhippy]

1 hour ago, JAG said:

How so?

 

A straight answer. I'll say it again:

 

I thought that you were German. You have said you are not. Fine, It doesn't change anything. 

I will let YOU have the persistence award of the year, but I claim the Monty Pyton "expose - a - posh - poster" - award.

Just when I thought that the brexit threads were loosing their entertainment value, you come up with this. Thank you.

I am reading these brexit nonsense threads because I am bored - staying temporarily in Europe for medical reasons, what is YOUR excuse?

"Teutonic" really? And no extreem nationalism / racism / revanchism intended.

By the way, my first 2 "christian" names are the same as yours - there could still be hope for you, and 555 we share the same profession, as I was a macro economics - lecturer before. Oops mentioning "lector" could be concidered posh......

Edited October 8, 2019 by oldhippy
.spelling 555

[DannyCarlton]

3 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

In fact you could just have option 2........ yes or no.

 

If more than 50% voted ‘yes’ then there is a clear mandate  for No Deal.

 

 

I think many understand that a GE result would signal the same.

Yep, that works for me mate. Probably, in fact after todays news, almost certainly, the only deal in town.

 

"Yes" No deal Brexit, "No" Remain. Final, final, final referendum. Legally binding. Pinkie promise.

 

I think Thai Visa is well on the way to reuniting the country as Brexiteers and Remainers find a way forward out of this mess. We could get a couple of knighthoods for this!

[DannyCarlton]

5 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

By the way, my first 2 "christian" names are the same as yours - there could still be hope for you, and 555 we share the same profession, as I was a macro economics - lecturer before. Oops mentioning "lectot" could be concidered posh......

Brothers from another mother really. There's hope yet.

[oldhippy]

18 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

If it gave conformation of the leave vote and allowed you to choose which withdrawal agreement you prefer, how would that be an affront to democracy?

This will come as a surprise to you, but there are actually 2 types of democracy.

 

1/ parliamentary democracy - which you obviously detest.

2/ direct democracy, with voting by the population on every main issue - which you prefer.

 

What type of democracy did the UK (and the rest of the world) choose?

I can see the point for direct democracy - though everything would depend on who formulates the questions.

But again: what type of democracy did the UK choose?

 

 

[oldhippy]

6 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Brothers from another mother really. There's hope yet.

I know I was the one who first mentioned "hope" - but I was joking.

 

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, oldhippy said:

This will come as a surprise to you, but there are actually 2 types of democracy.

 

1/ parliamentary democracy - which you obviously detest.

2/ direct democracy, with voting by the population on every main issue - which you prefer.

 

What type of democracy did the UK (and the rest of the world) choose?

I can see the point for direct democracy - though everything would depend on who formulates the questions.

But again: what type of democracy did the UK choose?

 

 

There is only one type of democracy in the UK, the sovereignty of parliamentary democracy.

 

The only group that argues for a direct democracy are Anarchists.

 

A second referendum would be proposed and voted on by parliament as would it's framework and the fact that it's legally binding. No affront to the sovereignty of parliamentary democracy there.

 

Jippo and I have just solved the Brexit conumdrum. Jealous, a bit?

[oldhippy]

3 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

There is only one type of democracy in the UK, the sovereignty of parliamentary democracy.

 

The only group that argues for a direct democracy are Anarchists.

 

A second referendum would be proposed and voted on by parliament as would it's framework and the fact that it's legally binding. No affront to the sovereignty of parliamentary democracy there.

 

Jippo and I have just solved the Brexit conumdrum. Jealous, a bit?

Maybe yes jealous, but I became an anarchist in 68, and now at age 68 I will not change my ideas.....

I will admit anarchy is a dream, a nice dream though.

 

[DannyCarlton]

4 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Maybe yes jealous, but I became an anarchist in 68, and now at age 68 I will not change my ideas.....

I will admit anarchy is a dream, a nice dream though.

 

I became one in 1970 after being "converted" by Ray Gosling. Didn't last long for me though, too altuistic.

[david555]

 

Tuesday 8 October 2019 12:29, UK

https://news.sky.com/story/angela-merkel-tells-pm-brexit-deal-overwhelmingly-unlikely-11830601

Brexit deal 'overwhelmingly unlikely,' Angela Merkel tells Boris Johnson

A Number 10 source reveals a call between the pair has dashed hopes of a deal - but the EU warns the PM of a "stupid blame game".

 

more...

Edited October 8, 2019 by david555

[Loiner]

Brexit deal 'overwhelmingly unlikely,' Angela Merkel tells Boris Johnson
A Number 10 source reveals a call between the pair has dashed hopes of a deal - but the EU warns the PM of a "stupid blame game".

The Frau must be really sick that her plot with Theresa failed. Ah well, they had their second chance and blew it. Who cares about brickbats or bouquets, so long as we are out.

No Deal it is then, engineered by Mr Cummings. Thanks.

[JAG]

1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

I will let YOU have the persistence award of the year, but I claim the Monty Pyton "expose - a - posh - poster" - award.

Just when I thought that the brexit threads were loosing their entertainment value, you come up with this. Thank you.

I am reading these brexit nonsense threads because I am bored - staying temporarily in Europe for medical reasons, what is YOUR excuse?

"Teutonic" really? And no extreem nationalism / racism / revanchism intended.

By the way, my first 2 "christian" names are the same as yours - there could still be hope for you, and 555 we share the same profession, as I was a macro economics - lecturer before. Oops mentioning "lector" could be concidered posh......

My excuse is that , as an Englishman, I am of course very interested in the whole business of "Brexit". I voted leave for many long considered reasons (not economic) and I wish to see the UK leave.

 

I am rather gratified that you consider me "posh" - I assure you that I am really (although I don't like these labels) quite "middle class" - "bourgeois" might be an appropriate European label. As I explained at the beginning, elegant and precise (pedantic, pompous?) English is something of a hobby for me.

 

As for extreme nationalism, racism or even revanchism (with it's connotations of seeking revenge), certainly not! Teutonic was merely an adjective used in the mistaken belief that you were a German. 

 

As for our "professional kinship", well, I teach English to primary school children, so I am somewhat lower down the professional scale than you. My real profession was as a soldier - 32 years, although I was by no means a lean mean steely eyed dealer of death - leave that to the US movie business!

 

I do hope that your medical condition is resolved.

 

Enough - or "Bruntoid" will start complaining...

Edited October 8, 2019 by JAG

[oldhippy]

2 minutes ago, JAG said:

My excuse is that , as an Englishman, I am of course very interested in the whole business of "Brexit". I voted leave for many long considered reasons (not economic) and I wish to see the UK leave.

 

I am rather gratified that you consider me "posh" - I assure you that I am really (although I don't like these labels) quite "middle class" - "bourgeois" might be an appropriate European label. As I explained at the beginning, elegant (pompous?) English is something of a hobby for me.

 

As for extreme nationalism, racism or even revanchism, certainly not! Teutonic was merely an adjective used in the mistaken belief that you were a German. 

 

Enough - or "Bruntoid" will start complaining...

So, Germans are Teutonic? Right? Better update your history lessons then.

And you are gratified that I call you "posh"? Next time I will call you "that Bimbo Spice Girl".

[JAG]

1 minute ago, oldhippy said:

So, Germans are Teutonic? Right? Better update your history lessons then.

And you are gratified that I call you "posh"? Next time I will call you "that Bimbo Spice Girl".

Oh never mind then. You are determined to pick a fight, I want nothing more of it. 

[RuamRudy]

Isnt Scotland reliant on the rest of the UK to financially support them ? 

No

Sent from my SM-G975F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Pattaya46]

29 minutes ago, Loiner said:

The Frau must be really sick that her plot with Theresa failed. Ah well, they had their second chance and blew it. //

It's certainly not finished. EU will have an other "chance" (to use your word).

You think that negotiations will stop on 31/10? Of course not.

UK will quickly want to get a trade deal with EU, and the same negotiations subjects will come back...

[beautifulthailand99]

36 minutes ago, Loiner said:

 

The Frau must be really sick that her plot with Theresa failed. Ah well, they had their second chance and blew it. Who cares about brickbats or bouquets, so long as we are out.

No Deal it is then, engineered by Mr Cummings. Thanks.

 

Bring it on in all it's bloody glory. I'm with you Mr Loiner hope you can afford the ride. 

[johnnybangkok]

21 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

I was well informed when I voted.

 

If I am even better informed now, it largely reinforces my negativity towards the EU.

 

Another vote is pointless, I would vote the same way and so would every Brexiteer that I have spoken to. 

Yeah and you’d get outvoted by all the Remainers who will now pay attention and get their complacent <deleted> off the couch and vote. 
Not to mention the new lot of youngsters who are now eligible to vote V all the oldies who have popped their clogs in the last 3 years. 
You don’t stand a chance and you know it. 

[johnnybangkok]

1 hour ago, DannyCarlton said:

I became one in 1970 after being "converted" by Ray Gosling. Didn't last long for me though, too altuistic.

Mines was 79. For about 3 months. 
stiff Little Fingers have a lot to answer for. 

[johnnybangkok]

1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

So, Germans are Teutonic? Right? Better update your history lessons then.

And you are gratified that I call you "posh"? Next time I will call you "that Bimbo Spice Girl".

You are sooo getting this wrong. Man is trying to be nice. Feel the room. 

[Jip99]

1 hour ago, johnnybangkok said:

Yeah and you’d get outvoted by all the Remainers who will now pay attention and get their complacent <deleted> off the couch and vote. 
Not to mention the new lot of youngsters who are now eligible to vote V all the oldies who have popped their clogs in the last 3 years. 
You don’t stand a chance and you know it. 

 

 

I disagree.

 

You and the bookies were wrong last time.

[Loiner]

Bring it on in all it's bloody glory. I'm with you Mr Loiner hope you can afford the ride. 

It will be glorious and probably a new national holiday will be decreed for ever more. UKID United Kingdom Independence Day.

[Loiner]

It's certainly not finished. EU will have an other "chance" (to use your word).
You think that negotiations will stop on 31/10? Of course not.
UK will quickly want to get a trade deal with EU, and the same negotiations subjects will come back...

From 1st November the proper deal negotiations can start. Not the trick deal the Remainer May tried to foist on us.
The EU will also quickly want to get a trade deal with the UK. However, we can negotiate this without one hand tied behind our back under the Merkel/May Surrender Treaty.

[Loiner]

Yeah and you’d get outvoted by all the Remainers who will now pay attention and get their complacent off the couch and vote. 
Not to mention the new lot of youngsters who are now eligible to vote V all the oldies who have popped their clogs in the last 3 years. 
You don’t stand a chance and you know it. 

Never going to happen. Don’t you know it?

[nong38]

You can see how difficult it is to leave the EU when you are in it, the UK has been waiting over 3 years to leave and still not out, its hardly surprising that the Swiss withdrew their application. The Danes and the Swedes have to make a decision as well by 2024 accept the Euro or leave, their politicians want to stay, its a politicians club after all I wonder if the people see it that way and if they choose to leave will they find it easy?

It seems it will be difficult for anyone to reach a deal that's suits both parties so it looks like anyone leaving will leave without a deal and then sort out or not trading arrangement at a later date, possibly.

And I don't see the point of getting an extension, there is no basis for thinking that an extension will somehow provide the solution all it does is put off the day when the UK leaves without a deal and the EU have to fill the cash void left.

I hope that common sense will prevail and a deal is found but it does not look likely.