Final proposal - PM Johnson to unveil Brexit offer to EU

[JAG]

15 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

And how do you think that Brexit would solve the problems in Bradford and Huddersfield? Yes they do have an immigrant problem but please tell me where these immigrants are from. The EU?

Just a thought, but perhaps it would stop further immigration, or more accurately a fresh source of immigrants? It wouldn't solve the "problem" but might avoid exacerbating it.

 

As an aside - and not aimed at you personally; but the coupling of the term "problem" with a particular community or ethnic identity is, for me, a concern. It brings to mind terrible "solutions" which were deployed to "resolve" the (Jewish) problem. I'm not suggesting that is always the intention, but perhaps it opens the gate to a path which should be firmly barred?

Edited October 8, 2019 by JAG

[DannyCarlton]

35 minutes ago, JAG said:

Just a thought, but perhaps it would stop further immigration, or more accurately a fresh source of immigrants? It wouldn't solve the "problem" but might avoid exacerbating it.

 

As an aside - and not aimed at you personally; but the application of the term "problem" to a particular community or ethnic identity is, for me, a concern. It brings to mind terrible "solutions" which were deployed to "resolve" such (insert name of ethnic group) problems. 

OK, I'll spell it out in words of one syllable. The problems in West Yorkshire are twofold. The importation, distribution and supply of heroin and the Moslem grooming gangs. Both of these problems are almost completely controlled by 1st, 2nd and even 3rd generation Pakistanis.

 

I was born in Lancashire and raised in Huddersfield so know something of the problems these communities face.

 

The Heroin problem is by far the biggest problem and the most difficult to control. Virtually all heroin brought into the UK is brought in via Pakistan and Bradford is the smugglers main base. Likewise the distribution of heroin throughout the UK. At "street dealer" level they do use ethnic British dealers who are usually addicts themselves. The problem is particularly difficult to fight by the police and customs because in the modern era they rely primarily on the public for information and the Pakistani community, due to ther culture and ethos, will not, no matter how much they disapprove of a persons activities, "grass" one of their own to the authorities.

 

Not one of these importers, distributers or suppliers came to the UK on an inflatable dinghy. The large majority were born in the UK and are just as much UK citizens as you and I are. The first generation Pakistanis came to the UK via Heathrow, benefitting from UK immigration laws which in no way were dictated to the UK by the EU.

 

You may have heard in the news today that India is threatening a trade war with the UK because of stricter rules regarding immigration. If the UK bowed to India's demands it would have to relax the rules for all immigrants, including Pakistanis. The Uk would be in a much better position to resist the threats from India as a full member of the EU, rather than standing alone against them.

 

Now, remind me again how leaving the EU would alleviate the problems in Bradford, Huddersfield and East Lancs.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2019 by DannyCarlton

[oldhippy]

5 hours ago, JAG said:

I corrected one spelling mistake because it was entirely relevant to the point which you were making. Otherwise I frankly don't care very much. That said, you asked: "And is your real name Jacob Reesmug?" Should I point out that - no, it will only annoy!

 

My real name - well my posting name here is simply my initials, It is as simple as that.

QUOTE: My real name - well my posting name here is simply my initials, It is as simple as that.

 

I knew it!!! JAcobReesmuG !!

 

[JAG]

3 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

OK, I'll spell it out in words of one syllable. The problems in West Yorkshire are twofold. The importation, distribution and supply of heroin and the Moslem grooming gangs. Both of these problems are almost completely controlled by 1st, 2nd and even 3rd generation Pakistanis.

 

I was born in Lancashire and raised in Huddersfield so know something of the problems these communities face.

 

The Heroin problem is by far the biggest problem and the most difficult to control. Virtually all heroin brought into the UK is brought in via Pakistan and Bradford is the smugglers main base. Likewise the distribution of heroin throughout the UK. At "street dealer" level they do use ethnic British dealers who are usually addicts themselves. The problem is particularly difficult to fight by the police and customs because in the modern era they rely primarily on the public for information and the Pakistani community, due to ther culture and ethos, will not, no matter how much they disapprove of a persons activities, "grass" one of their own to the authorities.

 

Not one of these importers, distributers or suppliers came to the UK on an inflatable dinghy. The large majority were born in the UK and are just as much UK citizens as you and I are. The first generation Pakistanis came to the UK via Heathrow, benefitting from UK immigration laws which in no way were dictated to the UK by the EU.

 

You may have heard in the news today that India is threatening a trade war with the UK because of stricter rules regarding immigration. If the UK bowed to India's demands it would have to relax the rules for all immigrants, including Pakistanis. The Uk would be in a much better position to resist the threats from India as a full member of the EU, rather than standing alone against them.

 

Now, remind me again how leaving the EU would alleviate the problems in Bradford, Huddersfield and East Lancs by leaving the EU.

 

 

As I said it would stop further immigration, or more accurately a fresh source of immigrants. It wouldn't solve the "problem" but might avoid exacerbating it.

 

I have little knowledge of the criminal problems you describe. I understand and accept the points you are making about these criminals and their activities. They obviously need addressing, that will be difficult. There are other problems, overcrowding in schools and access to health and other services, together with an oversupply of labour resulting in unemployment and downward pressure of wages also exist do they not? A reduction of what is effectively uncontrolled immigration from within the EU would go some way to reducing those pressures.

[zorrow424]

1 hour ago, DannyCarlton said:

And how do you think that Brexit would solve the problems in Bradford and Huddersfield? Yes they do have an immigrant problem but please tell me where these immigrants are from. The EU?

you see the deleted   that is where  p.akis, biggest by population and worst in Europe   Yes EU too 3 and a half million of them,why in UK?  benefits,all stopping 31/10  

  Not just Brexit  but UC   and PC  are the real killers for them,the real mcCoy

 

  Might as well answer here  India?  trade war?  bring it on.   No way the UK wants a trade off with the likes of India,nothing there but cheating,thieving,conniving

Edited October 8, 2019 by zorrow424

[SheungWan]

Where is Little England....?

Pattaya New Plaza.

Sent from my SM-N935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[JAG]

4 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

QUOTE: My real name - well my posting name here is simply my initials, It is as simple as that.

 

I knew it!!! JAcobReesmuG !!

 

For crying out loud!

 

Full marks for "Teutonic persistence" I suppose. 

 

My Christian names are "John Anthony", my surname starts with "G"

[zorrow424]

7 minutes ago, JAG said:

As I said it would stop further immigration, or more accurately a fresh source of immigrants. It wouldn't solve the "problem" but might avoid exacerbating it.

 

I have little knowledge of the criminal problems you describe. I understand and accept the points you are making about these criminals and their activities. They obviously need addressing, that will be difficult. There are other problems, overcrowding in schools and access to health and other services, together with an oversupply of labour resulting in unemployment and downward pressure of wages also exist do they not? A reduction of what is effectively uncontrolled immigration from within the EU would go some way to reducing those pressures.

There is only one solution,just one ,segregation,enforced . The BBC two programmed series  then and now,ten years apart highlights it,no options,no further options,they want their lifestyles,the white population do not want it,push comes to shove,race riots

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, JAG said:

As I said it would stop further immigration, or more accurately a fresh source of immigrants. It wouldn't solve the "problem" but might avoid exacerbating it.

 

I have little knowledge of the criminal problems you describe. I understand and accept the points you are making about these criminals and their activities. They obviously need addressing, that will be difficult. There are other problems, also exist do they not? A reduction of what is effectively uncontrolled immigration from within the EU would go some way to reducing those pressures.

The "fresh source of immigrants" wouldn't be able to muscle in on the Heroin trade, British Pakistanis have it sown up, primarily because the majority of heroin is produced in Pakistan. Likewise the grooming gangs.

 

You seem to ignore the fact that leaving the EU will only control the flow of EU citzens int the UK, not from 3rd world countries.

 

As for overcrowding in schools and access to health and other services, together with an oversupply of labour resulting in unemployment and downward pressure of wages, yes that problem may have been excassipated by people migrating from the EU but mostly in Southern England, not Bradford, Huddersfield and East Lancs. By far the biggest cause of the problems you highlighted, particularly overcrowding in schools and access to health and other services has been caused by years of underfunding by succesive Tory governments.

 

If you really feel strongly about these issues and want to see improvements in these areas rather than a further decline, don't leave the EU, just vote the Tories out.

[DannyCarlton]

12 minutes ago, JAG said:

For crying out loud!

 

Full marks for "Teutonic persistence" I suppose. 

 

My Christian names are "John Anthony", my surname starts with "G"

Surely not John Anthony Gillis (aka Jack White of the White Stripes)? I'm a massive fan of yours.

[zorrow424]

1 minute ago, DannyCarlton said:

If you really feel strongly about these issues and want to see improvements in these areas rather than a further decline, don't leave the EU, just vote the Tories out.

No way,segregation,it will happen,and is happening now in small measures. I do not want my taxes spent on those people,and most UK people would feel the same,let them stew in their own mess,but pension credit has got them cornered,no uncle Fester going to his homeland on unpaid pension,more like backside of a Welsh mountain

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, zorrow424 said:

No way,segregation,it will happen,and is happening now in small measures. I do not want my taxes spent on those people,and most UK people would feel the same,let them stew in their own mess,but pension credit has got them cornered,no uncle Fester going to his homeland on unpaid pension,more like backside of a Welsh mountain

Steven Yaxley Lennon on steroids. And who said that Brexiteers weren't racist? 555

[DannyCarlton]

26 minutes ago, zorrow424 said:

you see the deleted   that is where  p.akis, biggest by population and worst in Europe   Yes EU too 3 and a half million of them,why in UK?  benefits,all stopping 31/10  

  Not just Brexit  but UC   and PC  are the real killers for them,the real mcCoy

 

  Might as well answer here  India?  trade war?  bring it on.   No way the UK wants a trade off with the likes of India,nothing there but cheating,thieving,conniving

You still haven't said how leaving the EU would solve the problem.

[zorrow424]

2 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Steven Yaxley Lennon on steroids. And who said that Brexiteers weren't racist? 555

This is why the conservatives will never be out of office,massive majority coming up, don't like it? tough

[zorrow424]

1 minute ago, DannyCarlton said:

You still haven't said how leaving the EU would solve the problem.

3 and a half million  stripped of welfare,    ...just read past comments    you have nothing better to do than quote here     bet you have the letter too.....Leaving the UK....good one,millions sent out

[transam]

5 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Steven Yaxley Lennon on steroids. And who said that Brexiteers weren't racist? 555

The racist card......Oh deary me......????

[brewsterbudgen]

11 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Steven Yaxley Lennon on steroids. And who said that Brexiteers weren't racist? 555

I doubt many racists voted Remain!

[DannyCarlton]

11 minutes ago, zorrow424 said:

This is why the conservatives will never be out of office,massive majority coming up, don't like it? tough

 

8 minutes ago, zorrow424 said:

3 and a half million  stripped of welfare,    ...just read past comments    you have nothing better to do than quote here     bet you have the letter too.....Leaving the UK....good one,millions sent out

Maybe not, but I do have something better to do than to reply to a diatribe of rhetorical nonsense from an increasingly desparate Brexiteer.

[Jip99]

4 hours ago, sandyf said:

Do students take the final exams a few weeks after starting school? Of course not, a period of study is required.

In the brexit issue the whole nation, and in particular the politicians, were effectively uneducated in the complexity of the matter. Anyone that thought they knew were speaking from ignorance rather than knowledge. It would appear that many consider anti EU sentiment as some form of knowledge.

David Cameron was warned about problems in respect of the GFA before the referendum bill saw the light of day, but shrugged it off as irrelevant. Somehow I feel the brexit negotiators would take a different view on relevance.

After 3 and a half years of further education the brexit question can only be answered with a "resit". General elections are exactly that, "general", and do not provide an answer to any specific question.

 

 

Probably one of the most pompous responses I have seen.

 

I don’t recall anyone needing a degree to vote at the last general election. 

 

Even if if they had a degree they wouldn’t have predicted that Labour would renege on their election manifesto.

 

 

Emily Pankhurst didn’t risk life and limb to campaign for women to vote ONLY if they could evidence the ‘knowledge’ to do so.

 

Same goes for Kuhn Thaksin’s followers..

 

The criteria to vote is usually age and residency - you, with your comments, have just insulted democracy.

 

I repeat, I know of not one Brexiteer who would change his vote because he now has greater knowledge....... perhaps some retainers might.

[oldhippy]

2 hours ago, JAG said:

Just a thought, but perhaps it would stop further immigration, or more accurately a fresh source of immigrants? It wouldn't solve the "problem" but might avoid exacerbating it.

 

As an aside - and not aimed at you personally; but the coupling of the term "problem" with a particular community or ethnic identity is, for me, a concern. It brings to mind terrible "solutions" which were deployed to "resolve" the (Jewish) problem. I'm not suggesting that is always the intention, but perhaps it opens the gate to a path which should be firmly barred?

Ever heard about he Irish "problem"? Some Brexiteers have rather strong opinions on it, somebody mentioned nuking Ireland (probably a joke, but in very bad taste), and just a few posts earlier somebody suggested to cut off their potato rations.

[JAG]

35 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Ever heard about he Irish "problem"? Some Brexiteers have rather strong opinions on it, somebody mentioned nuking Ireland (probably a joke, but in very bad taste), and just a few posts earlier somebody suggested to cut off their potato rations.

I'm very familiar with the "Irish problem". I was a soldier for many years, and spent a considerable amount of time, in my younger days, there. Much of that time was spent endeavoring to prevent one or other of the two opposing communities there from " burning out" each other, or otherwise enforcing various forms of segregation. 

 

It left me with strong views on political, religious and cultural diversity, and the need, if we must have such strongly identified "communities", for tolerance between them. None of that has any bearing upon my views on the UK leaving the EU!

 

"Nuking" Ireland would be unwise - the prevailing winds on that side of the British Isles are from the West, so we (England) would receive the "fallout"!

 

Don't take the last paragraph seriously - it was a joke in very questionable taste!

[baansgr]

Benn act....Tony Benn and Arthur Scargil both want out of the EU...TB already passed away......but how on Earth can Brexiters be classed as fascists... Arthur Scargill gave a fantastic presentation two days be for Article 50 was invoked....he said, negotiatios will go on for years....about the only person that openly predicted this....

[oldhippy]

2 hours ago, JAG said:

For crying out loud!

 

Full marks for "Teutonic persistence" I suppose. 

 

My Christian names are "John Anthony", my surname starts with "G"

Are you "accusing" me of being German?

 

Now that is revealing - but not correct (but obviously you think it is relevant).

 

 

 

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Probably one of the most pompous responses I have seen.

 

I don’t recall anyone needing a degree to vote at the last general election. 

 

Even if if they had a degree they wouldn’t have predicted that Labour would renege on their election manifesto.

 

 

Emily Pankhurst didn’t risk life and limb to campaign for women to vote ONLY if they could evidence the ‘knowledge’ to do so.

 

Same goes for Kuhn Thaksin’s followers..

 

The criteria to vote is usually age and residency - you, with your comments, have just insulted democracy.

 

I repeat, I know of not one Brexiteer who would change his vote because he now has greater knowledge....... perhaps some retainers might.

Ten out of ten for distraction, brexit came from a referendum, not a general election.

Your last sentence confirms the point, emotional paranoia rather than rational thinking.

[Jip99]

8 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Ten out of ten for distraction, brexit came from a referendum, not a general election.

Your last sentence confirms the point, emotional paranoia rather than rational thinking.

 

 

Democracy applies equally ally to general elections or referendums.

 

 

Brexit will indeed finish up coming from a general election.

[sandyf]

5 hours ago, el torro said:

An interesting post, but "a period of study"?

 

All the "study" boils down to is biased opinion!  There is no way to forecast what will happen in the short/medium/long term if the UK actually 'brexits' - other than an undeniably short term drop in sterling, as this will be hated by the money markets.

So you think that Boris Johnson's ignorance in respect of Gatt Article 24 was based on "biased opinion" rather than fact.

 

‘I thought you were a man of detail!’: Boris Johnson admits he does not know details of his own Brexit plan

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/brexit/boris-johnson-brexit-plan-no-deal-eu-gatt-24-paragraph-5b-5c-498635

[sandyf]

6 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Democracy applies equally ally to general elections or referendums.

 

 

Brexit will indeed finish up coming from a general election.

Brexiteers are banking on votes against JC to try and get what they want. They are scared to ask the question directly as they know it would go against them.

[JAG]

57 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Are you "accusing" me of being German?

 

Now that is revealing - but not correct (but obviously you think it is relevant).

 

 

 

I confess that I rather thought so - although it is not exactly an accusation! I was obviously wrong. That I thought so is neither revealing, nor particularly relevant, You still get full marks for persistence, whichever country you come from.

Edited October 8, 2019 by JAG

[oldhippy]

6 minutes ago, JAG said:

I confess that I rather thought so - although it is not exactly an accusation! I was obviously wrong. That I thought so is neither revealing, nor particularly relevant, You still get full marks for persistence, whichever country you come from.

twisting twisting twisting

 

[JAG]

1 minute ago, oldhippy said:

twisting twisting twisting

 

How so?

 

A straight answer. I'll say it again:

 

I thought that you were German. You have said you are not. Fine, It doesn't change anything.