Freehold condo, own portion of land its built on?

[bkk23234]

Forgive my ignorance.

 

I've never considered purchasing a condo before however am getting so bored of the traffic I went to give up the car and be in walking distance of BTS.

 

I of course can't afford a house close to a BTS station. A condo on the other hand, maybe.

 

But, if the condo is freehold, does this mean that you own a portion of the land it sits on? So in x a mount of years the condo building is knocked down or something else then the condo owners would still own the land?

 

Also, what happens if say over time, hypothetically, one purchased all the units in a condominium block, would that person (or company for non Thai) have the title deeds to the land?

 

I hate the idea of buying something that my children would not benefit from, so if they would benefit from fractional ownership of land in a great area that would help my decision making process.

 

Thanks

[Airalee]

Investing in a condo for the “land value” underneath doesn’t seem like the best kind of generational real estate investment.  Looks like it’s time for you to research the cost of empty land (and condos) close to the BTS and then run the numbers.  Don’t forget future demolition costs and all the other variables.

 

This might help you get started...

 

http://www.accomasia.co.th/land-sale-bts-phromphong-sukhumvit-bangkok/property_aa18918

 

 

[bkk23234]

2 minutes ago, Airalee said:

Investing in a condo for the “land value” underneath doesn’t seem like the best kind of generational real estate investment.  Looks like it’s time for you to research the cost of empty land (and condos) close to the BTS and then run the numbers.  Don’t forget future demolition costs and all the other variables.

 

This might help you get started...

 

http://www.accomasia.co.th/land-sale-bts-phromphong-sukhumvit-bangkok/property_aa18918

 

 

Thanks, I'm not thinking of purchasing with the intention of the land value, I just want to know if a freehold condo gives fractional freehold ownership of the land it sits on.

 

Like, the condo falls down you lose everything.

 

or

 

The condo falls down but you still own a bit of the land.

[ThomasThBKK]

31 minutes ago, bkk23234 said:

But, if the condo is freehold, does this mean that you own a portion of the land it sits on? So in x a mount of years the condo building is knocked down or something else then the condo owners would still own the land?

 

 

No they are entirely different titles, the title dead for your condo is just for your condo. The land is owned by the condo building owner(s).

[bkk23234]

5 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

 

No they are entirely different titles, the title dead for your condo is just for your condo. The land is owned by the condo building owner(s).

I have found nothing indicating this, can this be verified?

 

If this is the case what is one actually buying apart from a space in a building.

 

Surely if this is the case it is in the interest of the land owner that the building falls down, no more owned spaces and they have the land?

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, bkk23234 said:

I have found nothing indicating this, can this be verified?

 

If this is the case what is one actually buying apart from a space in a building.

 

Surely if this is the case it is in the interest of the land owner that the building falls down, no more owned spaces and they have the land?

That's what insurance is for,  I'm sure you can only be a leaseholder in a condo according to my son and he said the only way he could make his condo freehold is to buy the whole building from the owners.

My Thai son can own land but I can't as a foreigner.

Edited October 2, 2019 by Kwasaki

[ThomasThBKK]

1 hour ago, bkk23234 said:

I have found nothing indicating this, can this be verified?

 

If this is the case what is one actually buying apart from a space in a building.

 

Surely if this is the case it is in the interest of the land owner that the building falls down, no more owned spaces and they have the land?

 

It's called co-ownership principle, so yeah on paper you own a share approx to your condo/total condospace. But in reality its utterly useless.

The land and common elements after a condo is developed become property of the Condo Association, and you have a small stake/vote in that as a co-owner.

Your title deed means you own the air space within your unit, and a percentage of interest in the condo association.

 

 

 

Condos don't break together, if that happens and thousands of people die in there the land is completely useless.

The cleaning costs for dead buildings are way higher than actually building a new one on new land, that's why u see thousands of ghost towers here - it's financially impossible to reuse the land. Expect a total loss of value, maybe even to have liabilities if that ever happens.

 

 

You know inheriting a condo here is a pain in the ass right? Your kid needs to independently qualify for the condo to get it, including FET forms etc. 
It's hilarious...

Edited October 2, 2019 by ThomasThBKK

[bkk23234]

Thanks for the answers, my children are Thai so there is no issue on inheritance.

 

My main issue is I just don't like the idea of a condo however a house in an area where a car becomes unneeded is not going to happen at the prices they cost. 

[LukKrueng]

2 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

 

No they are entirely different titles, the title dead for your condo is just for your condo. The land is owned by the condo building owner(s).

There is no "condo building owner". Under the condominium act the condo is a juristic person, a legal entity. The co-owners of the juristic person are the unit owners (and that's why foreigners can only own up to 49% of the units). Each unit owner gets 1 vote in the general meetings. So basically the unit owners all together own the land the condo is built on, but if you take down the building the small space you "own" worth nothing by itself.

 

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

That's what insurance is for,  I'm sure you can only be a leaseholder in a condo according to my son and he said the only way he could make his condo freehold is to buy the whole building from the owners.

My Thai son can own land but I can't as a foreigner.

A foreign person can OWN a freehold condo UNIT as long as the total number of units owned by foreigners is up to 49%. No foreigner can own the whole building - Thais can.

[Card]

3 hours ago, Airalee said:

Investing in a condo for the “land value” underneath doesn’t seem like the best kind of generational real estate investment.  Looks like it’s time for you to research the cost of empty land (and condos) close to the BTS and then run the numbers.  Don’t forget future demolition costs and all the other variables.

 

This might help you get started...

 

http://www.accomasia.co.th/land-sale-bts-phromphong-sukhumvit-bangkok/property_aa18918

 

 

A foreigner cannot own land in Thailand but can lease it for a limited period, usually max 30 years. Only the ground floor units of a condo block own the land beneath the block, and fir that reason foreigners cannot own any condos on the ground floor. They can rent them, but not own them. So you as a foreigner cannot buy a whole block of condos and expect to own the land as well. 

[phantomfiddler]

The theory of condominiums is that every condo owner (not renter) owns a relative proportion of the value of the land upon which the condo is built, based upon the area of their unit against the total area of units. Therefore, should some conglomerate want to buy the entire building to redevelop the site, each owner is entitled to his share of the price paid for the land. Obviously any farang buyer will be one of the 49% allowed to purchase in their own name, but they will be entitled to their share.

[metempsychotic]

5 minutes ago, Card said:

Only the ground floor units of a condo block own the land beneath the block, and fir that reason foreigners cannot own any condos on the ground floor.

this is perhaps the funniest thing i have ever heard

[ThomasThBKK]

1 hour ago, LukKrueng said:

There is no "condo building owner". Under the condominium act the condo is a juristic person, a legal entity. The co-owners of the juristic person are the unit owners (and that's why foreigners can only own up to 49% of the units). Each unit owner gets 1 vote in the general meetings. So basically the unit owners all together own the land the condo is built on, but if you take down the building the small space you "own" worth nothing by itself.

 

A foreign person can OWN a freehold condo UNIT as long as the total number of units owned by foreigners is up to 49%. No foreigner can own the whole building - Thais can.

 

No need to exactly repeat what i already wrote dude.

 

Quote

It's called co-ownership principle, so yeah on paper you own a share approx to your condo/total condospace. But in reality its utterly useless.

The land and common elements after a condo is developed become property of the Condo Association, and you have a small stake/vote in that as a co-owner.

Your title deed means you own the air space within your unit, and a percentage of interest in the condo association.

 

 

How is that different from this? I don't get it? Same same.

[Per Walter]

When the building of the condominium is finished, all rights and ownership shall be transferred from the project to the owners of the units. Each owner is issued a Title of deed. All owners together (all co-owners) constitutes the condominium and is called "Juristic Person" in the Condominium Act. A person in this respect means a entity so "Juristic Person" is actually a juristic entity. The co-owners together (the Juristic Person) owns the building and the land the building sits on. In each Title of deed there is a number called "Ratio", and each owner is co-owner according to this ratio. (The "ratio" also tells have your voting in the AGM and EGM is counted.) 

[newnative]

   I think there may be some confusion regarding freehold, leasehold, and foreign quota ownership.  Freehold means the condo project owns the land outright and is not leasing it.  Leasehold obviously means the land is being leased for a set number of years and the condo project does not own it.  

   If you buy a condo in foreign quota in a freehold project and, at some point, someone comes in and offers 1 billion baht for the project to tear it down and build something else--and the correct percentage of condo owners agree to sell--you would be entitled to your share of the 1 billion baht as one of the owners.  

    I would suggest you look for a foreign quota condo in a freehold project.  If you are in Bangkok many condos have foreign quota still available, which is not always the case in Pattaya.  Foreign quota is much easier as you do not have the expense to set up a fake company and the yearly expense to do fake company paperwork filing each year.  So, look for foreign quota and freehold and make sure they are in the sales contract.

[coppywriter]

5 hours ago, bkk23234 said:

Thanks for the answers, my children are Thai so there is no issue on inheritance.

 

My main issue is I just don't like the idea of a condo however a house in an area where a car becomes unneeded is not going to happen at the prices they cost. 

If your children are Thai, then why don't you buy land or a house in their name.

[bkk23234]

6 minutes ago, coppywriter said:

If your children are Thai, then why don't you buy land or a house in their name.

Because the only houses I can afford require the use of a car to go anywhere as opposed to a short walk to the bts station.....

[Kwasaki]

4 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

There is no "condo building owner". Under the condominium act the condo is a juristic person, a legal entity. The co-owners of the juristic person are the unit owners (and that's why foreigners can only own up to 49% of the units). Each unit owner gets 1 vote in the general meetings. So basically the unit owners all together own the land the condo is built on, but if you take down the building the small space you "own" worth nothing by itself.

 

A foreign person can OWN a freehold condo UNIT as long as the total number of units owned by foreigners is up to 49%. No foreigner can own the whole building - Thais can.

Exactly what i try to point out my Thai son cannot own where he lives either, westerner are paranoid about ownership in Thailand I'm not I don't own nowt my Thai wife does.

[DaRoadrunner]

17 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

I don't own nowt my Thai wife does.

I presume you paid for it though? What happens if there is a divorce?

[Kwasaki]

5 minutes ago, DaRoadrunner said:

I presume you paid for it though? What happens if there is a divorce?

Divorce is not ganna happen at my age stupid questions like that are are not gonna happen we have a secure relationship maybe you should too,  I would get 49% but what do I care I'm a man on a pension income so why should I bother about things like that.

[Tony125]

6 hours ago, bkk23234 said:

Thanks for the answers, my children are Thai so there is no issue on inheritance.

 

My main issue is I just don't like the idea of a condo however a house in an area where a car becomes unneeded is not going to happen at the prices they cost. 

You will notice that no farangs own a condo on the first floor so as they would own the land it sits on . You as a farang only own the airspace in the condo above ground level. 

[LukKrueng]

6 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

That's what insurance is for,  I'm sure you can only be a leaseholder in a condo according to my son and he said the only way he could make his condo freehold is to buy the whole building from the owners.

My Thai son can own land but I can't as a foreigner.

 

41 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Exactly what i try to point out my Thai son cannot own where he lives either, westerner are paranoid about ownership in Thailand I'm not I don't own nowt my Thai wife does.

Well, your point is wrong. Anyone can OWN FREEHOLD CONDO UNIT. In any such condo building (under the condo act) foreigners can own up to 49% of the units (can be 1 rich foreigner that owns all 49% or 49 people each owning 1 unit) .

Thais have no limit.

To make this point clearer - lets say condo "A" has 100 units. 51 units owned by Thai people (can be 1 person or many people) and 49 units are owned by foreigners. In this situation a Thai that would like to sell his/her unit can only sell to another Thai person, whereas in the same situation if a foreigner wants to sell he/she can sell to anyone - Thai or foreign.

So if your son is Thai and he now rents a condo unit, if any unit is up for sale and he's got the money to buy - he can buy and makes no difference if he buys from a Thai or a foreigner, meaning he CAN own where he lives.

[DaRoadrunner]

24 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Divorce is not ganna happen at my age stupid questions like that are are not gonna happen we have a secure relationship maybe you should too,  I would get 49% but what do I care I'm a man on a pension income so why should I bother about things like that.

It might seem a stupid question to you at your age, but not all of us are as old as you are!

[Kwasaki]

9 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

 

Well, your point is wrong. Anyone can OWN FREEHOLD CONDO UNIT. In any such condo building (under the condo act) foreigners can own up to 49% of the units (can be 1 rich foreigner that owns all 49% or 49 people each owning 1 unit) .

Thais have no limit.

To make this point clearer - lets say condo "A" has 100 units. 51 units owned by Thai people (can be 1 person or many people) and 49 units are owned by foreigners. In this situation a Thai that would like to sell his/her unit can only sell to another Thai person, whereas in the same situation if a foreigner wants to sell he/she can sell to anyone - Thai or foreign.

So if your son is Thai and he now rents a condo unit, if any unit is up for sale and he's got the money to buy - he can buy and makes no difference if he buys from a Thai or a foreigner, meaning he CAN own where he lives.

I give up with you my son has his condo in Bkk on a mortgage so if you don't understand what he does I certainly wouldn't take any notice or posts from a Farangie like you, educate yourself more. 

[Kwasaki]

10 minutes ago, DaRoadrunner said:

It might seem a stupid question to you at your age, but not all of us are as old as you are!

Your quite right and not all you youngin's are as wise as me. ???? 

[Tony125]

25 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Divorce is not ganna happen at my age stupid questions like that are are not gonna happen we have a secure relationship maybe you should too,  I would get 49% but what do I care I'm a man on a pension income so why should I bother about things like that.

You have been here a long time and should realise that his question is not stupid. How many farangs from countless stories on TV have bought condos, homes, properties and lost many in a diviorce. Every one with the expectation that the relationship would be forever. How many times have we heard "my wife's different" . I have seen in US where long standing marriages still end in diviorce because people have simply grown apart or kids are grown so no need to put up with the other person any longer so you saying it's not gonna happen might be naievety on your part.

"A wise man believes only in lies, trusts only in the absurd, and learns to expect... the unexpected."

[LukKrueng]

11 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

I give up with you my son has his condo in Bkk on a mortgage so if you don't understand what he does I certainly wouldn't take any notice or posts from a Farangie like you, educate yourself more. 

1 last try with you...

Once your son pay off his mortgage - will he fully own the condo as a freehold? The answer is YES - so contrary to your posts - condo units CAN be owned as freehold!!

BTW - I am Thai, and educated as well (Msc)

[Kwasaki]

51 minutes ago, Tony125 said:

so you saying it's not gonna happen might be naivety on your part.

Sorry no !!  only on those who venture Thailand in a uneducated ignorant way.

[Kwasaki]

54 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

1 last try with you...

Once your son pay off his mortgage - will he fully own the condo as a freehold? The answer is YES - so contrary to your posts - condo units CAN be owned as freehold!!

BTW - I am Thai, and educated as well (Msc)

So you are Thai so why ask on a farangie website not very Msc whatever that is, so sad.

[LukKrueng]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

So you are Thai so why ask on a farangie website not very Msc whatever that is, so sad.

I didn't ask, I answered.

And as someone that keep telling other to educate themselves - maybe you should try to educate yourself