Lack of critical thinking makes Thailand's competitiveness ranking slip

[Yinn]

2 hours ago, Bassosa said:

If the research was praising Thailand you would've considered it truth.
 

5555

Not really.

if you ever do the uni thesis before you know it have many problem

 

1) sometime the student to lazy to do really, just make it themself

2) if real question does the person answer say the true thing or not

3) if different language, is question same meaning?

4) answer up to who they ask, not ask everyone in the world, only small number.

5)etc etc 

 

so my critical thinking make critical of this style uni research.

 

 

1 hour ago, whitemouse said:

 Everybody knows Thailand Nr 1! 

No. Japan smart/work hard number 1. Have more genius than thailand.

Thai happy/smile/fun/music number 1.

 

 

[Yinn]

39 minutes ago, Fex Bluse said:

Many posters have made good points.

 

As hard as I am on Thais, I do NOT think they are incapable. Surely, they have similar potential to us all. 

 

I truly belive the biggest issue facing them is that the Thai (mostly Chinese) elites do not want the country to grow at the expense of their power and authority. 

 

The Thai Chinese have done an absolutely marvelous job of coaxing the country into their personal playground. Who would give up that status? Not me. 

Oh Fex, you always complain about thai Chinese.

 

True, they successful. But not same you imagine.

Chinese successful in many country same. I know you believe yourself, you say again and again, but you wrong again. Have successful caucasion, Indian and Japanese guy in Thailand also.

 

Eg Prayut is an Issan guy. Korat. 

[nong38]

What was the question again?

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

14 minutes ago, Yinn said:

5555

Not really.

if you ever do the uni thesis before you know it have many problem

 

1) sometime the student to lazy to do really, just make it themself

2) if real question does the person answer say the true thing or not

3) if different language, is question same meaning?

4) answer up to who they ask, not ask everyone in the world, only small number.

5)etc etc 

 

so my critical thinking make critical of this style uni research.

 

 

No. Japan smart/work hard number 1. Have more genius than thailand.

Thai happy/smile/fun/music number 1.

 

 

Why are you comparing the findings of World Economic Forum to that of a university thesis? Doesn't make any sense. The research was not solely centred on Thai universities, as it explains in detail in the article.

 

'No. Japan smart/work hard number 1. Have more genius than thailand.

Thai happy/smile/fun/music number 1.'

- Your opinion, and you might be right to some degree. Many Thais do seem content with their lot, even if their life is (from an outsider's view) bereft of intellectual pursuit, understanding of the world or even interest in such things. Ignorance is bliss some would say. However, the point of the article is that these findings are an indictment of the issues stunting Thailand's progression at both a domestic and international level, across the board. I would generally agree with the appraisal of the WEF, having spent enough time in Thailand around Thais, living here and working as both a teacher and a sales / business development person for a decade, I know that the issues raised in this article and by many TV posters are universally acknowledged by foreigners, and in some rare cases by Thais too.

 

There's no need to be defensive about these things, far better to take stock, admit the many problems in Thai society (which is far from alone in that respect of course) and collectively do your best to change what needs changing. Burying one's head in the sand and deflecting what you might interpret as unjustified criticism will resolve nothing - and there is much that needs resolution here.

Edited October 10, 2019 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[whitemouse]

1 hour ago, Yinn said:

 

if you ever do the uni thesis before you know it have many problem

 

 

 

Yinn, you are going by "Thailand Nr1" school of thought, and every fact, every statistic to the contrary will be met by you with the  "I no believe" argument. Tough to argue with you, even facing plain facts, you just resort to "I no believe", brilliant formula, no doubt winning strategy at Thai college debate circle.

 

 

[whitemouse]

4 hours ago, Yinn said:

I critical this “paper”. How he know???? Is not science. Opinion.

If you think critical about what really this paper is, you know that.

 

nobody ask Yinn. I am genius.

some people are lazy brain, so people think to much.

How he know, you ask, Yinn? My guess, something called research, data, work of social scientists (people who think too much).

[observer90210]

Why have they not mentioned corruption (from top to bottom level in government) in their list of Thai weaknesses ?

[Isaanbiker]

Can you repeat the question, please?

 

  Critical thinking Mot leo. Mai mee. 

[Yinn]

2 hours ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

Why are you comparing the findings of World Economic Forum to that of a university thesis? Doesn't make any sense.

Klause Schwab can not speak thai. 

Same method. You believe it perfect. Up to you. I do not.

 

2 hours ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

'No. Japan smart/work hard number 1. Have more genius than thailand.

Thai happy/smile/fun/music number 1.'

. I would generally agree with the appraisal of the WEF, having spent enough time in Thailand around Thais, living here and working as both a teacher and a sales / business development person for a decade, I know that the issues raised in this article and by many TV posters

 

Where does Klaus say that? I know TV poster say it. 

You read the report or not?

http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_TheGlobalCompetitivenessReport2019.pdf

 

 

Or you just read the TVF poster?

Top 30% is not to bad. But TVF poster love to criticize, mock, complain and ridicule.

i happy the result.

 

2 hours ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

are universally acknowledged by foreigners, and in some rare cases by Thais too.

 

There's no need to be defensive about these things, far better to take stock, admit the many problems in Thai society 

39 country better, 101 country worse. Not to bad.

we beat caucasion country eg Hungary, Serbia, ukraine, Bulgaria. Etc etc

 

 

singapore win. Every other country should improve it. Or not? Where you from.

 

we can not be the best everything.

 

50 minutes ago, whitemouse said:

Yinn, you are going by "Thailand Nr1" school of thought, and every fact, every statistic to the contrary will be met by you with the  "I no believe" argument. Tough to argue with you, even facing plain facts, you just resort to "I no believe", brilliant formula, no doubt winning strategy at Thai college debate circle.

 

 

Where you from. Singapore?

 

 

44 minutes ago, whitemouse said:

How he know, you ask, Yinn? My guess, something called research, data, work of social scientists (people who think too much).

Klaus say Thailand 40/141. 

[from the home of CC]

2 hours ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

Why are you comparing the findings of World Economic Forum to that of a university thesis? Doesn't make any sense. The research was not solely centred on Thai universities, as it explains in detail in the article.

 

'No. Japan smart/work hard number 1. Have more genius than thailand.

Thai happy/smile/fun/music number 1.'

- Your opinion, and you might be right to some degree. Many Thais do seem content with their lot, even if their life is (from an outsider's view) bereft of intellectual pursuit, understanding of the world or even interest in such things. Ignorance is bliss some would say. However, the point of the article is that these findings are an indictment of the issues stunting Thailand's progression at both a domestic and international level, across the board. I would generally agree with the appraisal of the WEF, having spent enough time in Thailand around Thais, living here and working as both a teacher and a sales / business development person for a decade, I know that the issues raised in this article and by many TV posters are universally acknowledged by foreigners, and in some rare cases by Thais too.

 

There's no need to be defensive about these things, far better to take stock, admit the many problems in Thai society (which is far from alone in that respect of course) and collectively do your best to change what needs changing. Burying one's head in the sand and deflecting what you might interpret as unjustified criticism will resolve nothing - and there is much that needs resolution here.

If i was in the west I be concerned about the critical thinking abilities of western politicians and business leaders  that have led major nations into dubious directions. Between the folly of brexit and the self destruction of the US reputation and economics via a psychopathic failed businessman,  the lack of creative foresight has done irreparable damage to people, reputations, free trade, security plus the inability to repair the damage  . And all this brain power that went into the critical foresight was developed by noted educational facilities that people( plus most politicians) come from world over to be educated in- esteemed names of ivy league schooling. And they still make a total mess in the administration of those societies - if it wasn't so sad I'd be laughing. Sure Thailand lacks a good educational system, but imo when you get right down to the results playing out in real life I know what country I want to live in, warts and all

[Artisi]

14 hours ago, olfu said:

...critical thinking?---well, when I see good looking chick my critical thinking dissipates like morning fog.

 

Watch it's not the only thing that dissipates ????

[Fex Bluse]

5 hours ago, Yinn said:

5555

Not really.

if you ever do the uni thesis before you know it have many problem

 

1) sometime the student to lazy to do really, just make it themself

2) if real question does the person answer say the true thing or not

3) if different language, is question same meaning?

4) answer up to who they ask, not ask everyone in the world, only small number.

5)etc etc 

 

so my critical thinking make critical of this style uni research.

 

 

No. Japan smart/work hard number 1. Have more genius than thailand.

Thai happy/smile/fun/music number 1.

 

 

Thai music #1??? 555

 

Worst music. 

 

What music you like? 

 

What Thai music good? 

[scorecard]

13 hours ago, Eligius said:

It is often said - one hears it incessantly - that the problem with Thai education is the prevalence of rote learning.

The funny thing is that I have noticed for years and years that even in this the Thai students fail: hardly any of them can successfully and meaningfully remember and retrieve information when needed. They cannot even do 'rote learning' well - let alone 'critical thinking'!

True and I suspect one of the major reasons behind your point is that in primary and high school they are taught blocks of words and told an end result but they have zero understanding of why the answer they are expected to memorize is true or why an alternative is not appropriate, etc. 

 

Just one example is giving small / large case studies to small teams in bachelor of business classes, typical realistic business scenarios and they are tasked to suggest an approach / a strategy.

 

What's happened many times is:

 

- I've monitor the team activities and then announced 'there's no point in searching in your text book for this specific business scenario, it's a specific one off case study and you have to invent / create an answer /  a strategy. I've had students comment 'if the answer is not in the textbook why did you give us this case study, that's not fair.'

 

Even worse I'm aware of a Thai lady who registered to complete full graduate studies / MBA (English language program) at one of Thailand's so called prestigious universities.

 

The first course started and she complained bitterly because she not learning specific processes. What she meant was that she expected (over the whole program) to learn several hundred processes, for very specific scenarios and in fact every possible scenarios in business.

 

Something like a book with hundreds of scenarios, e.g.

 

Scenario 85: 'When it's raining on a Tuesday and the marketing people can't leave the office the answer is ... something absolutely specific, which was not allowed to be changed ...  .

 

She made serious complaints to the uni. director that she was not being taught 'scenarios and each one with a totally specific answer which must be followed'.  There were several attempts by the director and several professors (incl. me) to explain to her that what students learn in MBA programs prepares them to create strategies and in many cases aimed to gain advantage over clever business competitors, etc., etc. 

 

One of her regular responses to these discussions was 'I don't want to know why an answer is correct, I just want to know hundreds of fixed processes (perfect answers) covering every possibility in business.  Eventually the director refunded her semester fees and she left.

 

 

Edited October 10, 2019 by scorecard

[scorecard]

8 hours ago, Yinn said:

Oh Fex, you always complain about thai Chinese.

 

True, they successful. But not same you imagine.

Chinese successful in many country same. I know you believe yourself, you say again and again, but you wrong again. Have successful caucasion, Indian and Japanese guy in Thailand also.

 

Eg Prayut is an Issan guy. Korat. 

What's also in the picture is that plenty of successful Chinese folks (in many countries) have made their money through trading, with very little knowledge of the goods / products they sell, they are good at trading and growing their trading business / their volumes to the point where they are wealthy.   

 

[bananafish]

Thailand will be overtaken by Vietnam and there's nothing they can do to stop it. 

[toenail]

Example:  “Fire! Fire” .... a Thai will most likely sit and wait to be told what to do ( or lack the “preparedness of what to do); meanwhile a “Westerner will take action upon him/ herself on what to do.  

Yes, I am generalizing but I think you get the point. 

[cmsally]

15 minutes ago, toenail said:

Example:  “Fire! Fire” .... a Thai will most likely sit and wait to be told what to do ( or lack the “preparedness of what to do); meanwhile a “Westerner will take action upon him/ herself on what to do.  

Yes, I am generalizing but I think you get the point. 

Totally get your point on this one. In the past 10 years had at least half a dozen fires break out in our area (mostly electrical on the street). I have had to put out every single one. Left me wondering why none of the Thais could just deal with it; I'm sure they have some idea of how to work a fire extinguisher. But its like they just shut down !

[BobbyL]

Absolutely fantastic moment at work yesterday. The international school in Bangkok where I work had a fire drill. One of the Thai teaching assistants said, ''Why do we practice a fire drill when there has never been a fire in the school?''

 

I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. I actually felt sorry for her as this is a woman in her 40s who apparently has a Masters degree. 

[Airbagwill]

inevitably this has turned into a Thai bashing thread for those incapable of critical thinking - just check out the confirmation bias in some of these posts. It's basically poorly disguised racism.

[Airbagwill]

20 hours ago, topt said:

Thanks for posting that. Unfortunately I think he has his own confirmation bias on some areas  

you can't cherrypick critical thinking/skepticality...

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

13 hours ago, Yinn said:

Klause Schwab can not speak thai. 

Same method. You believe it perfect. Up to you. I do not.

 

Where does Klaus say that? I know TV poster say it. 

You read the report or not?

http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_TheGlobalCompetitivenessReport2019.pdf

 

 

Or you just read the TVF poster?

Top 30% is not to bad. But TVF poster love to criticize, mock, complain and ridicule.

i happy the result.

 

39 country better, 101 country worse. Not to bad.

we beat caucasion country eg Hungary, Serbia, ukraine, Bulgaria. Etc etc

 

 

singapore win. Every other country should improve it. Or not? Where you from.

 

we can not be the best everything.

 

Where you from. Singapore?

 

 

Klaus say Thailand 40/141. 

 

Klause Schwab can not speak thai. 

Same method. You believe it perfect. Up to you. I do not. -

To be fair, he doesn't need to speak Thai to be able to appraise these facts. Moreover, the info has been gathered by both internationals and Thais from specific institutions working here contributing to the findings. Klaus Schwab + his team won't speak the vast majority of the languages spoken in the 141 nations the WEF compile their info from - they use data compiled by national institutions as well as their own staff based across the globe - as noted in the appendix. 

 

Or you just read the TVF poster?

Top 30% is not to bad. But TVF poster love to criticize, mock, complain and ridicule.

i happy the result.

Fine, I don't disagree with you here, there are too many on TVF that like to criticise, too often it is just abject criticism and not constructive criticism. I wouldn't be unhappy with 40/141 either - for Thailand. If you're happy with the result, who am I to say you shouldn't be? There are many wonderful aspects to Thailand and Thai people, don't get me wrong. I don't mean to offer a wholesale criticism of the country, as I love this place for many reasons, but what needs criticising should be criticised IMHO.

 

Singapore win. Every other country should improve it. Or not? Where you from.

Most nations could improve in one way or another, and I wouldn't suggest that this report is the final arbiter on how successful or advanced a country is - far from it. All I am really trying to say is that - as someone from another nation (UK - 9 / 141 ???? ) and thus able to offer a different and perhaps more objective perspective - it is obvious that the points flagged by the WEF and others, such as the lack of critical thinking and the overall poor performance of Thais in scholastic affairs / many areas of work life, are symptomatic of a wider problem. One that I and many others have raised already. Instead of trying to refute these claims, which you won't be able to do, why not consider and discuss them? With foreigners and with fellow Thais? Instead of taking the contented view 'we're no worse than many other places, we do ok for a country of our standing' - again, why not properly appraise and criticise that which needs criticising? This is how a country affects changes, after all. This is the biggest difference between our nations I feel.

 

The UK has become something of a joke in the last 3 years, the deceit and underhanded tactics of the political class have all but ruined our international reputation and near-destroyed our precious democracy. However, the people are aware of this and are not afraid to voice their opinions and act on them - on both sides of the argument - as debate, dissention and indictment are both permitted and even encouraged in my country, these things are NOT EVEN ALLOWED in yours. That is something that needs to change, and as already mentioned, once addressed - the critical thought lacking in many areas of Thai society and institutions will be allowed to develop too.

 

We can not be the best everything.

 

Of course you can't, what nation ever could be anyway? Work towards improving what needs improving and try being less defensive about it in the process. That is all I would say.

Edited October 11, 2019 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[Airbagwill]

40 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

Klause Schwab can not speak thai. 

Same method. You believe it perfect. Up to you. I do not. -

To be fair, he doesn't need to speak Thai to be able to appraise these facts. Moreover, the info has been gathered by both internationals and Thais from specific institutions working here contributing to the findings. Klaus Schwab + his team won't speak the vast majority of the languages spoken in the 141 nations the WEF compile their info from - they use data compiled by national institutions as well as their own staff based across the globe - as noted in the appendix. 

 

Or you just read the TVF poster?

Top 30% is not to bad. But TVF poster love to criticize, mock, complain and ridicule.

i happy the result.

Fine, I don't disagree with you here, there are too many on TVF that like to criticise, too often it is just abject criticism and not constructive criticism. I wouldn't be unhappy with 40/141 either - for Thailand. If you're happy with the result, who am I to say you shouldn't be? There are many wonderful aspects to Thailand and Thai people, don't get me wrong. I don't mean to offer a wholesale criticism of the country, as I love this place for many reasons, but what needs criticising should be criticised IMHO.

 

Singapore win. Every other country should improve it. Or not? Where you from.

Most nations could improve in one way or another, and I wouldn't suggest that this report is the final arbiter on how successful or advanced a country is - far from it. All I am really trying to say is that - as someone from another nation (UK - 9 / 141 ???? ) and thus able to offer a different and perhaps more objective perspective - it is obvious that the points flagged by the WEF and others, such as the lack of critical thinking and the overall poor performance of Thais in scholastic affairs / many areas of work life, are symptomatic of a wider problem. One that I and many others have raised already. Instead of trying to refute these claims, which you won't be able to do, why not consider and discuss them? With foreigners and with fellow Thais? Instead of taking the contented view 'we're no worse than many other places, we do ok for a country of our standing' - again, why not properly appraise and criticise that which needs criticising? This is how a country affects changes, after all. This is the biggest difference between our nations I feel.

 

The UK has become something of a joke in the last 3 years, the deceit and underhanded tactics of the political class have all but ruined our international reputation and near-destroyed our precious democracy. However, the people are aware of this and are not afraid to voice their opinions and act on them - on both sides of the argument - as debate, dissention and indictment are both permitted and even encouraged in my country, these things are NOT EVEN ALLOWED in yours. That is something that needs to change, and as already mentioned, once addressed - the critical thought lacking in many areas of Thai society and institutions will be allowed to develop too.

 

We can not be the best everything.

 

Of course you can't, what nation ever could be anyway? Work towards improving what needs improving and try being less defensive about it in the process. That is all I would say.

What you seem to be missing is that th report, however scientific or objective, has been hijacked for the purpose of Thai-bashing

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

14 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

What you seem to be missing is that th report, however scientific or objective, has been hijacked for the purpose of Thai-bashing

By some perhaps, not by me. As I mentioned, plenty of things I love about Thailand, plenty of things that need changing - being fair and balanced about the situation is something I try to do. Being jaded and unforgiving about a place you reside in for much of the year is a recipe for disaster and disconent.

 

However, just because these findings (which are far from being beyond reproach or debate) are being used by those who always seek to use such info as ammunition against Thais/Thailand, doesn't mean that said findings are incorrect or invalid. Enough of us who live here agree with them - universal experiences often ring true.

Edited October 11, 2019 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

12 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

If i was in the west I be concerned about the critical thinking abilities of western politicians and business leaders  that have led major nations into dubious directions. Between the folly of brexit and the self destruction of the US reputation and economics via a psychopathic failed businessman,  the lack of creative foresight has done irreparable damage to people, reputations, free trade, security plus the inability to repair the damage  . And all this brain power that went into the critical foresight was developed by noted educational facilities that people( plus most politicians) come from world over to be educated in- esteemed names of ivy league schooling. And they still make a total mess in the administration of those societies - if it wasn't so sad I'd be laughing. Sure Thailand lacks a good educational system, but imo when you get right down to the results playing out in real life I know what country I want to live in, warts and all

 

Some fair points, I don't disagree with you by in large.

 

I'm not someone who places a lot of importance in the big established institutions in the West, these days. Ivy league schools, so called 'think-tanks', financial and economic forums/institituions and establishment oriented organisations full of 'experts' - are too often totally inept and incompetent in reality. This doesn't mean that the societal framework is completely invalid however, we have made great developments in the West that have yet to really happen in many other parts of the world. It is easy to dismiss such luxuries as freedom of speech (something that is being curtailed by the day) or freedom of the press, a (generally speaking) fair and balanced judiciary based on common law and a system of welfare that used to be benevolent and not abused, as well as relative economic stability and prosperity (again until relatively recently), these things were born out of hard-won societal progressions in my country and yours. It is easy to overlook their importance until you don't have them. Thailand dones't have many of these things, but it does have certain things we are lacking in the West, and as things seem to be taking a turn for the worse in the West especially - across the board - I can see why many would prefer to live out their days in countries like Thailand/SE Asia.

[Airbagwill]

36 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

I'm not someone who places a lot of importance in the big established institutions in the West, these days. Ivy league schools, so called 'think-tanks', financial and economic forums/institituions and establishment oriented organisations full of 'experts' - are too often totally inept and incompetent in reality.

this is of course nothing to do with critical thinking.

[KKr]

On 10/10/2019 at 4:04 AM, webfact said:

 

 

point proven by a respected daily.

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

19 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

this is of course nothing to do with critical thinking.

Well, think about it - universities are perhaps the one place where critical thought should exist - and I think it's fair to say they once were. At one point Oxbridge colleges particularly were the crucible of critical thinking, debate and innovation. I think in the main, those days have long gone and this is a recognised truth among many. Established views and received wisdom reign supreme nowadays. We've reached a point in the West (US especially) where many universities regularly discourage free and critical thinking, shutting down debate and going as far as to 'no platform' certain speakers, whom elements of the faculty and student union deem to be 'unsavoury' or 'imflammatory'. Tragic really. In Thailand I doubt they ever really had the opportunity to debate or question their superiors - not part of their culture. What is worse though? Once having this approach and these opportunities and unilaterally abolishing them, or never having them at all?

Edited October 11, 2019 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[maxpower]

21 hours ago, Yinn said:

I critical this “paper”. How he know???? Is not science. Opinion.

If you think critical about what really this paper is, you know that.

 

nobody ask Yinn. I am genius.

some people are lazy brain, so people think to much.

Your posts are adding weight to the survey results.

[Orton Rd]

3 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

inevitably this has turned into a Thai bashing thread for those incapable of critical thinking - just check out the confirmation bias in some of these posts. It's basically poorly disguised racism.

Accurate observation is not Thai bashing

[Angry Dragon]

On 10/10/2019 at 9:08 AM, J Town said:

As a teacher in Thailand, I would occasionally put an obviously wrong answer up on the board and watch their little brain gears start to grind.

What a great experiment.  Were any of them willing to speak out and question what was written?

As a lawyer here, I was surprised to learn that law students in Thailand are taught by lecture and never once experienced the Socratic Method (same is true in continental Europe as well though so I've heard).  I found it to be a great way to develop critical thinking (as well as thinking on one's toes).