Building a House in Issan

[transam]

1 hour ago, Rv Hawee said:

About your roof : why didn't you choose a white or neutral grey color, also for heat protection ?

 

Anyway;, nice house. I still have to wait few years before built a new one.

White..........Boring......????

 

It ain't "Pimp my house" ya no....????

[DJ54]

Thinking after the fact (build finished 2 years ago) about putting 

insulation under the roof or on top of ceiling (gypsum board). 

 

- Suggestion? 

- Would be efficient? 

- Read about some insulation causing fires? 

 

Thanks

[CharlieH]

Just now, DJ54 said:

Thinking after the fact (build finished 2 years ago) about putting 

insulation under the roof or on top of ceiling (gypsum board). 

 

- Suggestion? 

- Would be efficient? 

- Read about some insulation causing fires? 

 

Thanks

retro fitting insulation and laying it on the ceiling etc has been discussed in other topics in the DIY forum

 

example:

 

[Momofarang]

Nice job, the one thing I did differently is to put a concrete slab under the roof (for about 150k extra), the first floor rooms stay nicely cool, and it improves maintainability a great deal. For instance I can now move up there  the hot water tank and two 400 liter backup tanks very easily. I like to have a shower even in any of my bathrooms even when the power goes off, which is quite common between March and May, as all PEA electricians go moonlighting, during working hours, during the dry season.

[GarryP]

1 hour ago, Netease said:

I'm with you Thaiguzzi I'm building on 6,000 m2 overlooking rice fields up to the mountains set the house out to view the mountains with beautiful sunrise other side of the house views sunset all rooms have a view

That is not a house. That is a palace. 6,000 square meters? Sure you don't mean 600. 

[GarryP]

39 minutes ago, Momofarang said:

Nice job, the one thing I did differently is to put a concrete slab under the roof (for about 150k extra), the first floor rooms stay nicely cool, and it improves maintainability a great deal. For instance I can now move up there  the hot water tank and two 400 liter backup tanks very easily. I like to have a shower even in any of my bathrooms even when the power goes off, which is quite common between March and May, as all PEA electricians go moonlighting, during working hours, during the dry season.

I'd never thought of that before. Any idea if it is common to use concrete slab under the roof. I (the builders I hire actually) will be building a bungalow in about 3 years so am looking at all suggestions. Is that better in terms of insulation? It certainly seems to be better for maintenance. 

[Cashboy]

4 hours ago, slappy said:

The secretary brews a cracking cup of Yorkshire tea also.

 

No good without a piece of chocolate with the tea!

[superal]

Thanks Cashboy for an interesting record of your house building experience in Thailand .

One of the most important facts that I have picked up from you and other self builders is to be on site at all times that construction is taking place to oversee and supervise  . Even better if you have a good , reliable , experienced all found Thai builder guy who can assist . They are around and I know one such guy who is always in demand .  But you have to pay him accordingly .

I was / am intrigued why there is nearly always no roof ventilation / exhaust in most new builds that I see to ease the hot air from radiating into the property .  I think the Aussie guys will have a view on that , coming from a country with a similar climate and good building specifications .

[saengd]

The basic laws of physics state that if you have an outlet for hot air in the roof then you must have an equally sized inlet for cool air lower down. If you don't match the two sets of holes, the hot air won't move. Hot air only rises when cooler air is introduced below to replace it, that's why I was surprised to see that your eves boards don't appear to be slotted.

 

Another observation: QCon is designed to be glued, you really shouldn't use mortar or it defeats the purpose.

 

Finally, there's just no way I would ever consider using concrete tiles on the roof, the radiated heat is just too costly and difficult to manage. I'd go with Colourbond or sheet metal roof every time, but that's just me.

 

 

[bankruatsteve]

48 minutes ago, superal said:

I was / am intrigued why there is nearly always no roof ventilation / exhaust in most new builds that I see to ease the hot air from radiating into the property .  I think the Aussie guys will have a view on that , coming from a country with a similar climate and good building specifications .

Every roof I have seen in Thailand will have the curls in the roof material exposed (versus plugged) and which provide venting.  If the roof has gables, there is usually a venting place in that.  Soffits also provide venting.  

[sometimewoodworker]

16 hours ago, GarryP said:

Any idea if it is common to use concrete slab under the roof. I

Virtually never as the walls and house structure has to support what is effectively a 2 story house.

 

we have one room, designed to be secure that has reenforced concrete walls and ceiling, it also doubles as the support for our ready use water tank.

[MikeN]

On 10/28/2019 at 4:02 PM, GarryP said:

That is not a house. That is a palace. 6,000 square meters? Sure you don't mean 600. 

He did say he was building ON 6,000 sq.m. ....not that he was building a house that size ????

[MikeN]

8 hours ago, saengd said:

Another observation: QCon is designed to be glued, you really shouldn't use mortar or it defeats the purpose.

 

The "glue" is still called mortar though ...or in this case "MOTAR"

[transam]

8 hours ago, saengd said:

The basic laws of physics state that if you have an outlet for hot air in the roof then you must have an equally sized inlet for cool air lower down. If you don't match the two sets of holes, the hot air won't move. Hot air only rises when cooler air is introduced below to replace it, that's why I was surprised to see that your eves boards don't appear to be slotted.

 

Another observation: QCon is designed to be glued, you really shouldn't use mortar or it defeats the purpose.

 

Finally, there's just no way I would ever consider using concrete tiles on the roof, the radiated heat is just too costly and difficult to manage. I'd go with Colourbond or sheet metal roof every time, but that's just me.

 

 

I have a two story house with cement tiles. Nice and strong, heavy, not affected by wind, can walk on them, they will not rot or leak.

There is no insulation under them. Back of the house roof overhang has large mesh heat escape panels.

It does get warm upstairs which the A/C takes care of in a few minutes. Downstairs stays as cool as a cucumber with just a couple of ceiling fans to move air...

I personally would have nothing to do with metal on a roof, or any other system that needs screws..

Do

[saengd]

29 minutes ago, transam said:

I have a two story house with cement tiles. Nice and strong, heavy, not affected by wind, can walk on them, they will not rot or leak.

There is no insulation under them. Back of the house roof overhang has large mesh heat escape panels.

It does get warm upstairs which the A/C takes care of in a few minutes. Downstairs stays as cool as a cucumber with just a couple of ceiling fans to move air...

I personally would have nothing to do with metal on a roof, or any other system that needs screws..

Do

Our house also has a CPAC roof, it's single storey but the ceilings are high and the peak of the roof is very high. We've installed all kinds of insulation and fans, radiant barriers etc etc but the living area still gets hot as the heat stored in the roof tiles releases overnight - at times it's like living in a storage heater. Air con. is fine but I'd prefer not to use it all the time. The advantage of a metal roof is that it doesn't store heat so when the sun goes down the roof is cool thirty minutes later. I hear what you say about screws and nails but almost every type of roofing material in the West uses one or the other, even the old Cotswold Stone slates are nailed as are slate roofs and shingles so it can be done.

[sirineou]

37 minutes ago, transam said:

I have a two story house with cement tiles. Nice and strong, heavy, not affected by wind, can walk on them, they will not rot or leak.

There is no insulation under them. Back of the house roof overhang has large mesh heat escape panels.

It does get warm upstairs which the A/C takes care of in a few minutes. Downstairs stays as cool as a cucumber with just a couple of ceiling fans to move air...

I personally would have nothing to do with metal on a roof, or any other system that needs screws..

Do

 A couple of points of clarification to things that I am sure you know but given the way the above post was written might be misunderstood by others who do not know,

- the vents for the overhangs are not there for heat to escape, but for cooler air to replace  the hot air that escaped from the ridge, or gable vents. Thus creating a convection cycle where air in the attic space is heated by the sun,rises and escapes from ridge and gable vents and is replaced by cooler air from soffit (overhangs)vents.

-IMO Metal roofs are just as waterproof,if not more so, as cement tiles for the following reasons.

 Though metal roofs have screws as points of potential water intrusion,  cement tiles have overlap joints that can crack as potential points of water intrusion .The difference is that Cement tiles have a lot more joints than metal roofs have screws, thus a lot more points of potential leals. 

  I have a concrete tile roof, only because the wife wanted it, I guess she had a metal roof all her life and now wanted something different. But IMO metal roofs require less maintenance,  cool down much faster in the evening. and have a much higher waterproof integrity factor than cement tiles roof.

Though having said that, It would also be fair to say that so far I never had a leak on my cement tile roof. And to also say that IMO cement tile roofs are more attractive. 

Though, in an earthquake I much rather be under a metal roof than a concrete tile roof LOL 

Edited October 29, 2019 by sirineou

[sirineou]

On 10/28/2019 at 5:15 AM, GarryP said:

I'd never thought of that before. Any idea if it is common to use concrete slab under the roof. I (the builders I hire actually) will be building a bungalow in about 3 years so am looking at all suggestions. Is that better in terms of insulation? It certainly seems to be better for maintenance. 

It might also be better as a means of security as many home invasions happen from the roof where it is easy to lift a couple of tiles and get in, Especially on bungalow where the roof is much more easily accessible

[sirineou]

On 10/27/2019 at 5:23 AM, Aussiepeter said:

It was too late to change the steps back to the right depth for my size 11 UK ex-soldiers' feet

 I realise that you have already build your house and my advice is a bit late, but it might help others with that issue.

In my industry (high rise construction) when we have issues with the thread width , we change the angle of the riser thus gaining a inch or so on the tread width.

please excuse the crude quick sketch,

Rather than :

Change angle of riser to increase thread:

 

[sometimewoodworker]

13 minutes ago, sirineou said:

In my industry (high rise construction) when we have issues with the thread width

Are you building or doing dress making? ???? 

[sirineou]

2 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Are you building or doing dress making? ???? 

LOL i see the typo, 

I broke my last last pair of reading glasses and ordered a set of five from amazon, they arrived yesterday but unfortunately I had ordered the wrong magnification  so I send them back and reordered the right magnification (Hubble Telescope strength) , will get them today (we have one day delivery now in the US) . Once I get them I will go back and re-read my posts, It should be interesting LOL 

[sometimewoodworker]

@sirineou I was trying to imagine the kind of woman who would need high rise construction.
 

Probably named Karen with an “I want to speak to your manager” haircut and attitude to match with a voice that could cut steel. 
 

Someone from here?

[Tomahawk21]

great post enjoyed reading and looking at your pics . well done, give yourself a pat on the back. ????

[Tomahawk21]

On 10/27/2019 at 2:53 PM, Cashboy said:

Summary of costs and thought to date:

 

I am an accountant / troubleshooter; not a builder.

My experience in building was from labouring/ digging footings / under pinning / brick layers labourer for my next door neighbour who had a construction company from 14 years old to 20 while I was a student.

 

I am not happy with the roof tiles under the ridge tiles.

And what annoys me is that I did tell the Technician the problems that will occur and sure enough they have.

 

The steps are not long enough; again I spent ages on the drawings for the architect who for some reason changed my landing width from my 1.2 metre on the drawing to 

1.5 metre making the steps shorter at 20cm instead of 23 cm.

There is a beam in the staircase that again I had under the stairs at mid level in my drawing but the architect put it at first floor level.

 

Recent pictures but all windows are in and all plastering is finished.

 

 

Cost to date for a 295 M2 2 floor house

 

Labour and Subsistence                                       491,000

Drawings and govt fees                                          20,000

Materials                                                          1,049,000

Loose Tools                                                           15,800

Equipment (can be used again)                              124,100

Diesel (pick up collecting materials)                        22,600

Delivery                                                                  5,400

 

Total                                                                 1,727,900

 

That cost does not include my time !!

 

I estimate to finish of between 800,000  bt and 1,200,000 bt depending on the sanitary ware, kitchen and tiles I use.

 

The equipment that I have can be used on other jobs as can some of the loose tools.

 

Equipment I have includes:

Marston plaster mixer (18,400 bt)

13 galavnised towers

12 platforms

2 SDS drills (AEG and Bosch)

5 HSS drills  (AEG)

3 Angle grinders (AEG)

Heat Gun (AEG)

Tile Cutter (Euro 850mm)

Marble/Tile Cutter (AEG 1200 watt)

250 Amp Arc Welder

Steel Cutter 14"  (Hyundai)

Bosch skill saw

Mixer

2 No 2.8mtr step ladders

7 mtr ladder

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i was quoted 12 million to build a similar house to yours, i had the land already. to cut a long story short with all the drama and blackmailing with money under the table for planing permit at city hall, 40,000 then trying to deal with these Thai builders asking how they can justify 12 million for the build. i was seeing houses for sale similar to the one i wanted building for 7 or 8 m with the land, i already had the land. i decide to forget the whole thing. i think they all thought i just arrived on a banana boat. your a better man than me.

Edited October 30, 2019 by Tomahawk21

[cornishcarlos]

Just had our new pad built on 33 rai, not quite finished. Cost 40K baht !!... Not the same league but check out that view ????

This is just our escape shack.. Waiting for the dam to be finished and we will have 25 rai lakeside plot with mountain views... 

 

[MikeN]

^ Nice view, but not too sure about that access ladder !

[Cashboy]

On 10/29/2019 at 10:37 AM, sirineou said:

 

  I have a concrete tile roof, only because the wife wanted it, I guess she had a metal roof all her life and now wanted something different. But IMO metal roofs require less maintenance,  cool down much faster in the evening. and have a much higher waterproof integrity factor than cement tiles roof.

Though having said that, It would also be fair to say that so far I never had a leak on my cement tile roof. And to also say that IMO cement tile roofs are more attractive. 

Though, in an earthquake I much rather be under a metal roof than a concrete tile roof LOL 

Having put a concrete tile roof on the house, I am not sure if I would do it in future development.

The reasons:

The heat inside the roof gets very hot and stays hot for a long time after the sun has gone.

The tiles weigh more than 10 tonnes on the roof.

You need a lot more and heavier steel to support the roof than say a sheet metal roof.

You need to weld a lot of steel batten to hold the tiles on the roof.

 

I think that a compromise would be the cement tiles of of 50cm x 120cm; cheaper and lighter and look like concrete tiles.  Dura, Diamond, SCG all manufacture them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 31, 2019 by Cashboy

[Cashboy]

On 10/28/2019 at 7:49 AM, DJ54 said:

Thinking after the fact (build finished 2 years ago) about putting 

insulation under the roof or on top of ceiling (gypsum board). 

 

- Suggestion? 

- Would be efficient? 

- Read about some insulation causing fires? 

 

Thanks

I would think the best way to insulate the roof is by laying insulation in the roof on top of your gypsum boards.

Again; SCG, Diamond and Dura all supply and can be bought in places like Global House, Thai Watsadu and Do Home.

 

I have been told it makes a big difference in keeping the rooms below cool and saves a lot of money on air conditioning.

 

I used 10 cm x 5cm x (1.5mm gauge) steel to support the ceiling gypsum boards.

 

My intention is to use the rolls of insulation on the gypsum board between the steels and then put cement boards (2.4m x 1.2m) on top of the steel so that I can use the roof for storage and maintenance.

 

 

 

 

 

[transam]

1 minute ago, Cashboy said:

I would think the best way to insulate the roof is by laying insulation in the roof on top of your gypsum boards.

Again; SCG, Diamond and Dura all supply and can be bought in places like Global House, Thai Watsadu and Do Home.

 

I have been told it makes a big difference in keeping the rooms below cool and saves a lot of money on air conditioning.

 

I used 10 cm x 5cm x (1.5mm gauge) steel to support the ceiling gypsum boards.

 

My intention is to use the rolls of insulation on the gypsum board between the steels and then put cement boards (2.4m x 1.2m) on top of the steel so that I can use the roof for storage and maintenance.

 

 

 

 

 

My house in the UK had insulation on the gypsum, didn't make any difference in the hot period, don't think it made a lot of difference in the cold period either because the house had solid 9" walls, no wall insulation.

[Cashboy]

The builders shall finish painting the outside of the building today.

I was surprised by the amount of paint available in Thailand and the wide difference in prices.

I ended up using Captain Parashield.

This is their most expensive range but is acrylic, supposedly has UV protection, 15 years of protection  etc etc.

 

I decided on white semi gloss to reflect the sun.

 

Prices before quantity discounts:

Base Coat (5 US gallons) = 19 ltrs   3,000 bt

Top Coat (2.5 US gallons) = 9.46 ltrs  1,800 bt

 

I didn't realise that a US gallons is less than UK gallon until now.

 

It worked out best (after experimenting) to put 2 coats of Base coat on and then 2 coats of Top coat on.

Recommended was 1 base and 2 top coats and obviously the coverage per gallon on the bucket was nothing like it actually covered.

 

 

 

 

[Cashboy]

28 minutes ago, transam said:

My house in the UK had insulation on the gypsum, didn't make any difference in the hot period, don't think it made a lot of difference in the cold period either because the house had solid 9" walls, no wall insulation.

 

I am from the UK and when insulating a house, the first thing you insulate is the loft. 

Best return on money invested; next would be double glazed windows.

The purpose is obviously to insulate to keep the heat in as opposed to keeping the heat out.

In the UK they are now using 200mm (8") of insulation in the loft now.

You probably would not notice much because the temperature in the UK never gets that high.