Six Days And Two Hours On Arrival

[Silomfarang]

One thing is reading about the new visa restrictions. It is quite another thing when the restrictions are on you.

When returning from Malaysia last week I had not bothered with a re-entry permit on my extended tourist visa (60+30 days), which had a couple of weeks left. I hoped whatever I would get on arrival would be enough to last till Songkran, when I was leaving Thailand again anyway. They would not really dig into every detail of my last 180 days in and out of Thailand, would they?

They would. At the airport in Bangkok two officers, sometimes assisted by a third, spent ten minutes on my passport. They talked, counted aloud, counted on their fingers, used a calculator and used a laminated card with numbers in a table. Then they handed me my passport stamped "permitted to stay until 29th of March". This was seven days, or rather six days and two hours since it was late in the day.

Even if I was aware this could happen it felt like a slap in the face.

I didn't protest. I never said anything while they were doing their counting routine either. I was a well dressed polite farang with a used Penang tourist visa in my passport. But they managed to calculate that I had been in Thailand more than 90 days on visa exemptions the last 180 days. That's my guess, as they never explained anything.

I don't know if their calculation was correct or not. I have been in and out of Thailand half a dozen times the last few months. They should subtract days I spent outside of Thailand but I am not sure if they did that. (I wonder if they took the easier route of checking if I had spent 90 days in Thailand on a proper visa, which is not the same. )

Anyway, they applied the new regime on me and the older guy who was in charge of operation finger counting seemed to delight in doing it. I was less delighted. As an unmarried person under 50 my best option now seems to be the next flight to Penang.

[jdinasia]

I assume you mean to get a visa! Sounds awful ... but you knew the situation before you left and didn't arrange for something better!

Good luck to you!

[Maestro]

Silomfarang, to summarise:

1. You knew the rules.

2. You did not add up the number of your visa-exempt days in Thailand since 1 October 2006 before you left Thailand to re-enter without a visa.

3. You still did not make this addition before posting here.

4. You expected that Immigration would not make the addition upon your re-entry without a visa.

What exactly is the purpose of your post? Are you sure you do not want to add some more details that reflect on the state of your intelligence?

--

Maestro

[jdinasia]

Silomfarang, to summarise:

1. You knew the rules.

2. You did not add up the number of your visa-exempt days in Thailand since 1 October 2006 before you left Thailand to re-enter without a visa.

3. You still did not make this addition before posting here.

4. You expected that Immigration would not make the addition upon your re-entry without a visa.

What exactly is the purpose of your post? Are you sure you do not want to add some more details that reflect on the state of your intelligence?

--

Maestro

OUCH! I at least TRIED to be nice!

[Chris.B]

Anyway, they applied the new regime on me and the older guy who was in charge of operation finger counting seemed to delight in doing it. I was less delighted. As an unmarried person under 50 my best option now seems to be the next flight to Penang.

I don't think that is your only option. According to the Thai Embassy in the UK you can do as follows:-

"Otherwise, the passport holders can also apply for a tourist visa at the Immigration Bureau in Bangkok. This will allow the visa applicants to stay in Thailand not exceeding 60 days and the duration of stay can be extended in total up to 90 days for each entry."

Source

[sarpesius]

What exactly is the purpose of your post? Are you sure you do not want to add some more details that reflect on the state of your intelligence?

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Maestro

What is the purpose of your response?

[Silomfarang]

Some people said in this forum that Immigration would not actually enforce the 90 days rule. They said it was too time-consuming to calculate, that it was too complicated, something that would be soon forgotten. Well, in my case they did enforce it. It makes for one of the more unusual scenes in international air travel when Thai immigration officers gather to count and recount and count again.

I think I was unlucky getting this older, grumpy officer who spoke no English. I have seen this guy before. He doesn't like his job. Would the younger, friendlier ones have done the same? Do all officers enforce the 90 day rule, and if they do, in the same way?

I hope other travellers can report about this.

[jdinasia]

It is the law ... and is being enforced ... you aren't the first and won't be the last

[Sophon]

-->

QUOTE(Chris.B @ 2007-03-27 00:30:20) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think that is your only option. According to the Thai Embassy in the UK you can do as follows:-

"Otherwise, the passport holders can also apply for a tourist visa at the Immigration Bureau in Bangkok. This will allow the visa applicants to stay in Thailand not exceeding 60 days and the duration of stay can be extended in total up to 90 days for each entry."

Source

Maybe I am not understanding this correct, but this information sounds plain wrong to me. Applying for visa's would normally have to be done at an embassy/consulate outside Thailand.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, and I will bow my head in disgrace.

Sophon

[Maestro]

What is the purpose of your response?

To ask the OP what the purpose of his post was.

What exactly is the purpose of your post?

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Maestro

[Maestro]

Applying for visa's would normally have to be done at an embassy/consulate outside Thailand.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, and I will bow my head in disgrace.

Sophong, you are right. Once a tourist has entered Thailand on a tourist visa – obtained from a Thai consulate, and all Thai consulates are outside Thailand – the tourist can apply for a 30-day extension at an Immigration office, which is inside Thailand, but he cannot apply for a tourist visa at an immigration office.

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Maestro

[Maestro]

I think I was unlucky getting this older, grumpy officer who spoke no English.

You weren’t unlucky. The Immigration officers handling your entry were simply doing their job correctly.

If there was a member posting that he got a new 30-day visa-exempt entry after he already had a total of 90 visa-exempt days since 1 October – and I remember reading one such post – it was the officer handling his entry who did not do his job correctly. It would be wrong for others to count on being equally lucky.

--

Maestro

[cali4995]

-->

QUOTE(Chris.B @ 2007-03-27 00:30:20) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Anyway, they applied the new regime on me and the older guy who was in charge of operation finger counting seemed to delight in doing it. I was less delighted. As an unmarried person under 50 my best option now seems to be the next flight to Penang.

I don't think that is your only option. According to the Thai Embassy in the UK you can do as follows:-

"Otherwise, the passport holders can also apply for a tourist visa at the Immigration Bureau in Bangkok. This will allow the visa applicants to stay in Thailand not exceeding 60 days and the duration of stay can be extended in total up to 90 days for each entry."

Source

chris b, that is a very interesting observation you made there? that appears directly on the thai embassy uk website? that you can apply for a tourist visa at suan phlu?(below paragraph 1). surely that must be a mistake/misunderstanding on their part? silom farang, call 'em what can it hurt?

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Remarks :

1. In accordance with the Immigration Bureau's Order number 608 / 2549 (2006), the above-mentioned passport holders will be permitted to stay in Thailand not exceeding 30 days and in total not exceeding 90 days within six months from the first date of entry. In case the passport holder wishes to re-enter Thailand for tourism purposes, they will be able to do so after six months (excluded countries which have concluded agreement on the exemption of visa requirement in Thailand)

Otherwise, the passport holders can also apply for a tourist visa at the Immigration Bureau in Bangkok. This will allow the visa applicants to stay in Thailand not exceeding 60 days and the duration of stay can be extended in total up to 90 days for each entry.

2. Passport holders from nine countries namely Laos, Vietnam, Hong Kong SAR, Macau SAR, Brazil, Chile, Republic of Korea, Peru, and Argentina, which have concluded agreement on the exemption of visa requirement with Thailand, will be permitted to enter and stay in Thailand for period of stay specified in the agreement.. (Please search for information at the section of a list of countries which have concluded agreement on the exemption of visa requirement with Thailand below.

List of Countries which have concluded agreement.

3. The applicant must possess means of living expenses at 10,000 baht per person and 20,000 per family accordingly.

4. Please be advised that ordinary passport holders of 43 countries who intend to engage in certain activities are eligible to apply for a visa when entering the Kingdom if their qualifications meet the conditions set forth by the Office of Immigration Bureau.

5. For more information, please contact the Office of Immigration Bureau, Soi Suan Plu, off South Sathorn Road, Bangkok 10120, Tel. (662) 287-3101-10 or at web site http://police.go.th

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Hobox]

Silomfarang, to summarise:

1. You knew the rules.

2. You did not add up the number of your visa-exempt days in Thailand since 1 October 2006 before you left Thailand to re-enter without a visa.

3. You still did not make this addition before posting here.

4. You expected that Immigration would not make the addition upon your re-entry without a visa.

What exactly is the purpose of your post? Are you sure you do not want to add some more details that reflect on the state of your intelligence?

--

Maestro

1. I agree

2. NOT from the 1st of October, it is 180 days from "day of entry" starting AFTER 1st of October.

3. I agree

4. You must be joking! You can get away with almost everything at the immigration if you REALLY want to.

Summary: Stupid response to an unclear question. The rules are easy, the interpretation is not.

Edited March 26, 2007 by Hobox

[Silomfarang]

Its the law, people say. Rules are rules. The officers were doing their job etc.

Rules are not rules in Thailand. If they had followed the rules many of us would not be in Thailand at all.

They could have denied me entry numerous times because I buy my air tickets in Bangkok and hence don't have an onward ticket when I arrive in Thailand.

They could have denied me entry because I routinely stay more than six months a year on visa exemption/tourist visas. This mostly forgotten rule was kind of enforced 4-5 years ago, but not usually against Western passport holders.

Knowing the rules is not enough. They have all kinds of rules. You have to know what they actually are likely to do.

[Krub]

Its the law, people say. Rules are rules. The officers were doing their job etc.

Rules are not rules in Thailand. If they had followed the rules many of us would not be in Thailand at all.

They could have denied me entry numerous times because I buy my air tickets in Bangkok and hence don't have an onward ticket when I arrive in Thailand.

They could have denied me entry because I routinely stay more than six months a year on visa exemption/tourist visas. This mostly forgotten rule was kind of enforced 4-5 years ago, but not usually against Western passport holders.

Knowing the rules is not enough. They have all kinds of rules. You have to know what they actually are likely to do.

Does it mean they calculated your 90 days out of 180 since your first non visa entry after 1 Oct 06 and were they correct ?

[likewise]

Some people said in this forum that Immigration would not actually enforce the 90 days rule. They said it was too time-consuming to calculate, that it was too complicated, something that would be soon forgotten. Well, in my case they did enforce it. It makes for one of the more unusual scenes in international air travel when Thai immigration officers gather to count and recount and count again.

I think I was unlucky getting this older, grumpy officer who spoke no English. I have seen this guy before. He doesn't like his job. Would the younger, friendlier ones have done the same? Do all officers enforce the 90 day rule, and if they do, in the same way?

I hope other travellers can report about this.

Happened to me last month. I'd used up my TV, did a visa run expecting to get 30 days, I got 4 days. So came back in for 4days and continued on to Penang for another TV. I think after this TV I am allowed to do border runs again!?!

[Mid]

Silomfarang, to summarise:

1. You knew the rules.

2. You did not add up the number of your visa-exempt days in Thailand since 1 October 2006 before you left Thailand to re-enter without a visa.

3. You still did not make this addition before posting here.

4. You expected that Immigration would not make the addition upon your re-entry without a visa.

What exactly is the purpose of your post? Are you sure you do not want to add some more details that reflect on the state of your intelligence?

--

Maestro

IMHO the OP's point is defined in his sub-heading for the topic as quoted below ,

Six Days And Two Hours On Arrival

They mean it

to wit , ' they mean it '

[Hobox]

Its the law, people say. Rules are rules. The officers were doing their job etc.

Rules are not rules in Thailand. If they had followed the rules many of us would not be in Thailand at all.

Knowing the rules is not enough. They have all kinds of rules. You have to know what they actually are likely to do.

Exactly and if this was not true, why are there a forum called Thaivisa?

[sarpesius]

Are you sure you do not want to add some more details that reflect on the state of your intelligence?

--

Maestro

Is that what this question means?

[Tod Daniels]

Bummer for you dude. ...

You could have calculated your remaining days using the T/V calculator BEFORE you left, but. .. You did not.

You could have applied for and received another Tourist Visa when you were out of the country but. .. You did not.

You could have applied for a re-entry permit at Suan Plu before you left thus getting the remaining days on your current Tourist Visa but. .. You did not.

Then you have the audacity to whine about enforcement of a rule which was widely published as well as over discussed here on T/V. Inferring the "older guy who was in charge of operation" was biased in his enforcement of the law to you is just too far out there to comment on.

While in the past <--- emphasis on the last word, things may have been done differently here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais", that is definitely in the past What they used to do and what they do now are two horses of a different color. You would do well to count your blessings on all the times you were able to enter on 30 day visa exempt (permitted to stay) stamps, and now toe the line in regards to the new rules.

As an aside; I just returned Saturday from my 90 day Non-O Visa run at Aranyaprathet/Poipet. This is my 3rd year on Non-O visa's yet I was asked "tham-arai yuu mueang thai?" and my passport was scrutinized. Still no worryz as I got another 90 days here with the munchkins in the glorious "Land 'O Thais".

The person ahead of me (an asian of undetermined origin) was held in line for 10 minutes, had immigration officials grouped around the desk, passport under the microscope, finger counting, etc and was issued just 2 days on his re-entry. So the rules are enforced to asians & farangs alike.

You know the 'game' here, just play it by their rules, “no ploblem-up-2-u”.

[Chris.B]

Applying for visa's would normally have to be done at an embassy/consulate outside Thailand.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, and I will bow my head in disgrace.

Sophong, you are right. Once a tourist has entered Thailand on a tourist visa – obtained from a Thai consulate, and all Thai consulates are outside Thailand – the tourist can apply for a 30-day extension at an Immigration office, which is inside Thailand, but he cannot apply for a tourist visa at an immigration office.

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Maestro

Not according to the Thai Embassy in London. See here :- UK Thai Embassy

I understood the OP had been entering Thailand under the Visa Exemption concession and not on a tourist visa. According to the UK Thai Embassy this can be converted to a Tourist Visa at Immigration in Bangkok.

Edited March 27, 2007 by Chris.B

[Maestro]

-->

Not according to the Thai Embassy in London. See here :- UK Thai Embassy

I understood the OP had been entering Thailand under the Visa Exemption concession and not on a tourist visa. According to the UK Thai Embassy this can be converted to a Tourist Visa at Immigration in Bangkok.

You are referring to the following information on the website of the Thai Embassy in London:

1. In accordance with the Immigration Bureau's Order number 608 / 2549 (2006), the above-mentioned passport holders will be permitted to stay in Thailand not exceeding 30 days and in total not exceeding 90 days within six months from the first date of entry. In case the passport holder wishes to re-enter Thailand for tourism purposes, they will be able to do so after six months (excluded countries which have concluded agreement on the exemption of visa requirement in Thailand)

Otherwise, the passport holders can also apply for a tourist visa at the Immigration Bureau in Bangkok. This will allow the visa applicants to stay in Thailand not exceeding 60 days and the duration of stay can be extended in total up to 90 days for each entry.

The part I put in bold print is wrong; I repeat: wrong.

--

Maestro

[Chris.B]

Hi Maestro,

You are claiming the information provided by the Thai Embassy in the UK is wrong. Do have a source or other information you can provide to support your claim?

[jdinasia]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chris.B @ 2007-03-27 11:11:29) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hi Maestro,

You are claiming the information provided by the Thai Embassy in the UK is wrong. Do have a source or other information you can provide to support your claim?

ChrisB ... do you KNOW anyone personally that has EVER gotten a TouristVisa in BKK? There was discussion by Immigration officials that right at the beginning of October they MIGHT allow some people to do that ... since october I know of a total of ZERO people that have done that

but I am sure you CAN apply ... you just won't get one .... <do you expect websites to ALWAYS be accurate? if so why oh why would a forum like this ever be needed?> <<for example ... notice that the heading of the page was Tourist Visa Exemption ... then look at #5 that gives a website that is NOT for Immigration ..... then go to http://police.go.th as referenced in #5 ... then click on English >>

Edited March 27, 2007 by jdinasia

[Maestro]

Chris, it is difficult to obtain proof for something that does not exist. I suggest you print out that information from the embassy’s website, enter Thailand without a visa, go to Immigration, show them your printout and ask for the form to apply for a tourist visa. Immigration will tell you verbally that it is not possible. You will not get their refusal in writing and thus you still will not have any conclusive proof to show.

--

Maestro

[Ijustwannateach]

Thanks anyway for letting us know what happened (perhaps that was the purpose of your post?)... it's always good to know the reality on the ground...

[Maestro]

-->

You are claiming the information provided by the Thai Embassy in the UK is wrong. Do have a source or other information you can provide to support your claim?

I did some searching and this post by Javel is perhaps the closest approximation to evidence that Immigration offices in Thailand do not issue tourist visas:

1. Javel entered without a visa, expecting to get the 30-day stamp the rules entitled him to.

2. The immigration check-point gave him only 9 days.

3. He went to the Immigration office and was told to go and get a tourist visa outside Thailand.

--

Maestro

[torrenova]

The law is being applied but I think what is upsetting some guys is how stupid the law is. If Thailand made it possible to extend visas at immigration offices perhaps after proving finances then they could retain all the money which is currently wasted on visa runs, Cambodian visas and trips abck to home countries to get further non imm visas.

An ill thought out addition to the statute book which does not have the effect it was designed to have. They should instead make it easier for people here to work legitimately rather than having to skirt local rules.

[visarunner]

Just thought I put the summary also on this post.

Have not heard that they ever changed a visa exempt stamp to a Tourist visa.

It is possible to change to a Non Immigrant visa provided paperwork is in order.

The new regulation , valid for entries AFTER the 1.10.06 affects only people entering Thailand on the 30-day visa exempt stamp , which is NOT a Tourist Visa as many think .

The regulation stipulates that visitors can only spend 90 days out of every SIX-MONTH period on the visa-exempt stamp. Days spent in Thailand on any kind of visa do not count towards that 90-day total.

Further, Immigration only counts the days actually spent within Thai borders, as long as you don’t exceed 90 days in a SIX-MONTH period, the number of visa-exempt entries are unlimited.

Please calculate your days very carefully. There is NO emergency visa allowance at the border.

Following scenario is possible : get a Tourist Visa at a Embassy/Consulate in a neighboring country which is valid for a stay of 60 day , after that period you can apply at the BKK Immigration@ Soi Suan Plu for a extension of 30days for THB 1,900.-.

A Tourist Visa will always be extended for 30days.

Extension of a Visa exempt stamp and any Non Immigrant Visa will be granted for 7 days only.

After this you can do 3 x 30 days Border runs and apply again for a Tourist Visa or you can extent any of the 30day visa exempt stamp at a Immigration Office.

Please remember you are allowed to stay only 90days with a visa exempt stamp (3x30days) in any SIX-MONTH period starting after your first entry since 1 of October 2006. Each entry counts !

To plan your trip to Laos please refer to the Office and Holiday Schedule for Year 2007 of the Thai Embassy and Consulate in Laos.

http://www.thaiembassy.org/vientiane/about_officetime.html

To plan your trip to Malaysia please contact the Thai Embassy and Consulate in Malaysia directly , they do not have a webpage.

If you are not sure about the days you have spend already in the country please pm me and give following specific and complete information.

Example:

1. Entry @ Airport 11.10.06 exit @ Ban Laem 9.11.06, 30days, visa type: visa exempt

2. Entry @ Ban Laem 9.11.06 exit@ Mukdahan 7.12.06, 29 days, visa type: visa exempt

Enter @ Mukdahan 8.12.06 exit @ Ban Laem 5.2.07 , 60days, and visa type: Tourist Visa

Extension Immigration Office for 30days , THB 1,900.- , extension until 6.3.07

3.Entry @ Ban Laem 6.3.07 permission to stay until 4.4.07 , 30 days , visa type : visa exempt

Immigration will allow this person back into the Country with a 30day visa exempt stamp on 10.4.07.

This person has now two possibilies .

A: Get another Extension (THB 1,900.-) for 7 days at the Immigration and re-enter Thailand on the 10.4.07 with a 30day visa exempt stamp to start a new SIX-MONTH period with 3x30days border runs .

B: Apply on/before the 4.4.07 for a new Tourist Visa.

We recommend that you apply for the extension at the Immigration Office.

Visit a Thai Embassy/Consulate twice a year to get a Tourist Visa, or you can convert the 30day visa exempt stamp to a Non-Immigrant Visa by going to the Immigration Department with the proper documents and 21 day stay remaining, meaning you have up to 9 days time after your entry.

Application fee THB 2,000.- .

Please note that your Passport need to be valid for at least another 6 month for any Visa application.

Further info on MFA webpage : http://www.mfa.go.th/web/12.php

All Embassies/Consulates in SEA will issue only Single Entry Tourist Visas.