Initial Non-O Retirement Extension - Health Insurance Advice

[English Chaai]

My apologies for another health insurance question.

 

The window to extend my initial Non-O Retirement (obtained in-country via conversion of SETV) starts 1 November.

 

1. Given this is an initial extension do I need to take any action regarding health insurance?

 

2. If not, do current readings of the new guidance mean subsequent extensions would require health insurance?

 

Any thoughts or advice is appreciated as I prepare for my CW trip:)

 

Thanks!

 

[ubonjoe]

No to both of your questions.

[Max69xl]

The health insurance still only concerns new O-A Visas issued from October 31. 

[CHiangMaiMuu]

Regarding this health insurance issue, has there been a final decision made on how mandatory it will be.

For us old, retired Farangs trying to hang on here in Thailand, even if I am able to get a long-term visa through a school or with the help of an agent, if the cost of the insurance is more than my monthly disability check then I have to move on to Vietnam. 

 

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, CHiangMaiMuu said:

Regarding this health insurance issue, has there been a final decision made on how mandatory it will be.

For us old, retired Farangs trying to hang on here in Thailand, even if I am able to get a long-term visa through a school or with the help of an agent, if the cost of the insurance is more than my monthly disability check then I have to move on to Vietnam. 

 

The insurance requirement is only needed to apply for OA long stay visa for those 50 or over issued by a embassy in your home country and entries when using it.

[Max69xl]

9 minutes ago, CHiangMaiMuu said:

Regarding this health insurance issue, has there been a final decision made on how mandatory it will be.

For us old, retired Farangs trying to hang on here in Thailand, even if I am able to get a long-term visa through a school or with the help of an agent, if the cost of the insurance is more than my monthly disability check then I have to move on to Vietnam. 

 

How can you possibly have missed all those threads with hundreds of posts explaining who really needs the health insurance? 

[oslooskar]

1 hour ago, Max69xl said:

The health insurance still only concerns new O-A Visas issued from October 31. 

WRONG! The law affects all O-A visas. When they were issued is irrelevant.

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, oslooskar said:

WRONG! The law affects all O-A visas. When they were issued is irrelevant.

What law says that?

The police order does not state that. It is clear that it is only for new OA visas and entries from them.

[chilly07]

The reason insurance applies only to Non Imn OAs is that they allow 1 years stay without cash or income in a Thai Bank to cover health emergencies. Extensions require cash in bank or income.

 

[Psimbo]

Groundhog Day!

[Max69xl]

36 minutes ago, oslooskar said:

WRONG! The law affects all O-A visas. When they were issued is irrelevant.

Have you even read the police order? I don't think so. 

[LivinLOS]

58 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

What law says that?

The police order does not state that. It is clear that it is only for new OA visas and entries from them.

I respectfully disagree with this reading on 2 points. 

 

1) I believe it ALSO applies to extensions from them. (Page 2 of the english order). 

2) I believe the requirement to be stamped in up to the end date of the insurance, implies that all entries AFTER 1st Nov will require the insurance, if the visa was issued prior or not will not be relevant. 

 

The final point would be, I tend to agree a re-entry permit 'should' be recognized for the re-entry of a valid existing permission of stay that it is. This is the greyest of the grey areas. 

[kuzie57]

If you have or will have a non imm"0-A" you need insurance. If you have non imm"O" you don't. 

 

[Max69xl]

27 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

I respectfully disagree with this reading on 2 points. 

 

1) I believe it ALSO applies to extensions from them. (Page 2 of the english order). 

2) I believe the requirement to be stamped in up to the end date of the insurance, implies that all entries AFTER 1st Nov will require the insurance, if the visa was issued prior or not will not be relevant. 

 

The final point would be, I tend to agree a re-entry permit 'should' be recognized for the re-entry of a valid existing permission of stay that it is. This is the greyest of the grey areas. 

If you applied for an O-A Visa a couple of weeks ago,and it was approved, and at that time you didn't need an insurance. Do you really think Immigration will ask for an insurance if you enter Thailand in mid November when you obtained your visa the correct way before October 31? 

[traveller101]

6 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

What law says that?

The police order does not state that. It is clear that it is only for new OA visas and entries from them.

Screenshot from the website of phuket's immigration volunteers regarding mandatory health insurance. Extensions of stay for the purpose of Retirement based on a initial O-A Visa issued abroad (no matter how many years ago) need to take out Insurance but there is no such requirement Extensions based on a initial O Visa.

Edited October 30, 2019 by ubonjoe
Moved image from quoted text.

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, Max69xl said:

If you applied for an O-A Visa a couple of weeks ago,and it was approved, and at that time you didn't need an insurance. Do you really think Immigration will ask for an insurance if you enter Thailand in mid November when you obtained your visa the correct way before October 31? 

Yes. 

 

I believe the order states that all O-A visas, arriving in Thailand after Nov 1, will be stamped in to the end date of the insurance. 

 

The question of what they choose to do at that point if people arrive without insurance is very open, they could stamp people in for a short window 7 - 30 days for example, and tell them to buy the insurance and extend incountry (not needing money seasoned), they could issue a 30 day VOA, they could deny entry, etc etc. All of those options or even no enforcement could be applied. That said I think 'stamped in to the end date of the insurance' is a part of the arrival rule for ALL OA based arrivals after that date. Thats my guess. 

[Peter Denis]

12 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

I believe the order states that all O-A visas, arriving in Thailand after Nov 1, will be stamped in to the end date of the insurance.

It's less than 36 hours before the new requirement will come into force.

For sure all Immigration officers that are expected to enforce the new health insurance regulation, will have been briefed by now on how to deal with OA Visa holders entering Thailand from Nov 1 on.

And surely there must be several TVF members with connections to Immigration officers, that queried them on what will happen.

So why do we not hear anything from them?

Or maybe the whole thing turns out to be a re-make of the last episode of Twin Peaks (it was nothing but a dream).

 

[GeorgeCross]

55 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Yes. 

 

I believe the order states that all O-A visas, arriving in Thailand after Nov 1, will be stamped in to the end date of the insurance. 

 

The question of what they choose to do at that point if people arrive without insurance is very open, they could stamp people in for a short window 7 - 30 days for example, and tell them to buy the insurance and extend incountry (not needing money seasoned), they could issue a 30 day VOA, they could deny entry, etc etc. All of those options or even no enforcement could be applied. That said I think 'stamped in to the end date of the insurance' is a part of the arrival rule for ALL OA based arrivals after that date. Thats my guess. 

 

i don't personally see how it will be any different from denying tourist visa holders entrance if they think they are working, if anything it will be worse because in these cases they will know the retiree has no insurance.

 

 

Edited October 30, 2019 by GeorgeCross

[skorts]

There seem to be two camps here:

 

1. Those that think the Compulsory Health Insurance only applies to new O-A Applications made from 31st October 2019.

2. Those that think it applies to anyone who had an original O-A Visa regardless of when it was issued, when they come to do their next annual extension of stay in Thailand. 

 

I have always put 100% trust in what Ubon Joe says and I have never known him to be wrong. 

 

Yesterday, I watched a video in the ‘Dan about Thailand’ series where he interviewed Jamie Connell, Director of Client Relationship at Pacific Cross. Jamie stated that in his view the Compulsory Health Insurance applies to anyone who had an original O-A Visa regardless of when it was issued, so in his view it applies to all those who were on an original O-A visa, and have been doing annual extensions, when they come to do their next annual extension. 

 

I know Pacific Cross has a vested interest here. 

 

My next extension of stay is due in December so I guess we will have to wait and see what happens in practice. I had an O-A in 2014 and have been on annual extensions of stays since. 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, skorts said:

Yesterday, I watched a video in the ‘Dan about Thailand’ series where he interviewed Jamie Connell, Director of Client Relationship at Pacific Cross. Jamie stated that in his view the Compulsory Health Insurance applies to anyone who had an original O-A Visa regardless of when it was issued, so in his view it applies to all those who were on an original O-A visa, and have been doing annual extensions, when they come to do their next annual extension. 

 

Despite what Joe has been saying, the instructions memo that Immigration sent out to its staff, and has been posted here previously, talks only about O-A visa entries from Oct. 31 onward (with specific note to the wording in the second paragraph). It doesn't talk at all about the dates that the visas were issued.

 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Max69xl]

4 hours ago, traveller101 said:

Screenshot from the website of phuket's immigration volunteers regarding mandatory health insurance. Extensions of stay for the purpose of Retirement based on a initial O-A Visa issued abroad (no matter how many years ago) need to take out Insurance but there is no such requirement Extensions based on a initial O Visa.

"Screenshot from the website of phuket's immigration volunteers regarding mandatory health insurance."

I'm not really sure I will trust anything from Phukets Immigration volunteers. There is an official police order that IO's at Suvarnabhumi are supposed to follow. 

[ubonjoe]

26 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

It doesn't talk at all about the dates that the visas were issued.

But the last line in number 1 gives a good indication it is only for visas issued on or after tomorrow.

Would a visa issued prior to tomorrow have remarks about insurance coverage on it.

[ubonjoe]

4 hours ago, traveller101 said:

Screenshot from the website of phuket's immigration volunteers regarding mandatory health insurance.

How can you call that a law.

[Max69xl]

19 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

How can you call that a law.

Exactly, especially when it comes from "Phuket immigration volunteers". 

[Max69xl]

50 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Despite what Joe has been saying, the instructions memo that Immigration sent out to its staff, and has been posted here previously, talks only about O-A visa entries from Oct. 31 onward (with specific note to the wording in the second paragraph). It doesn't talk at all about the dates that the visas were issued.

 

 

 

This is not the instructions for IO's at for example Suvarnabhumi when checking O-A Visas for eventual health insurance. 

[ubonjoe]

24 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

This is not the instructions for IO's at for example Suvarnabhumi when checking O-A Visas for eventual health insurance. 

Then what is it for.

Other than airports the only other place where entries to the country are done is at border crossing

[Max69xl]

40 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Then what is it for.

Other than airports the only other place where entries to the country are done is at border crossing

I am talking about the info from the Cabinet from April, thats not the police order with the instructions to immigration officers what to look for in the passport regarding health insurance. 

[traveller101]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

How can you call that a law.

 

1 hour ago, Max69xl said:

Exactly, especially when it comes from "Phuket immigration volunteers". 

I guess it's fair to state that some "laws/police orders" seem to be rather ambiguous and open to Interpretation by the countries Immigration Offices.

Phukets Volunteers are on site every day and work in close cooperation with Immigration.

Wht they state on their website comes straight from the horses mouth or in other words spell out Phukets Commissioner of Immigration Interpretation of the "law/Police order" in question. 

[pookondee]

6 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

It's less than 36 hours before the new requirement will come into force.

For sure all Immigration officers that are expected to enforce the new health insurance regulation, will have been briefed by now on how to deal with OA Visa holders entering Thailand from Nov 1 on.

And surely there must be several TVF members with connections to Immigration officers, that queried them on what will happen.

So why do we not hear anything from them?

Or maybe the whole thing turns out to be a re-make of the last episode of Twin Peaks (it was nothing but a dream).

 

Possibly wishfull thinking from a health insurance exec/owner who has been encouraged by..

well..umm...lets just say people who make money off social media clicks?

 

consider this:  if this rule is to be enforced end of October, then why havent the foreign consulates been notifying people applying weeks ago?

 

and why isnt there any mention of it on the foreign consulates websites?

 advising of the new requirements? 

 

If people have been recieving O-As in their passports in the last few weeks (without insurance) and unbeknown about the whole thing, does that mean they all will be denied entry tomorrow?

 

I think weve all been conned

 

 

[Max69xl]

27 minutes ago, pookondee said:

Possibly wishfull thinking from a health insurance exec/owner who has been encouraged by..

well..umm...lets just say people who make money off social media clicks?

 

consider this:  if this rule is to be enforced end of October, then why havent the foreign consulates been notifying people applying weeks ago?

 

and why isnt there any mention of it on the foreign consulates websites?

 advising of the new requirements? 

 

If people have been recieving O-As in their passports in the last few weeks (without insurance) and unbeknown about the whole thing, does that mean they all will be denied entry tomorrow?

 

I think weve all been conned

 

 

Why would the info come from western embassies/consulates? People who are interested in visas to Thailand are supposed to visit Thai embassies/consulates websites all over the world. I and also others still think that O-A Visas issued earlier won't need an insurance when entering Thailand October 31 or later.